Your take on the new songs in general....

[kalahari]

Okay I know this might not be interesting to anyone, but it is close to midnight, I am bored, and I like to write.

I don't post here very much, but I have been a GNR fan since 1988 when I first heard them and suddenly stopped listening to all my Def Leppard albums. Like everyone else I've been faithfully waiting for them to put up a follow up to the Illusions. I can still remember on Tuesday, Sept. 17, 1991, waiting in the "Face the Music" record store, asking the clerk, "where the hell are the albums?" There were about 3 of us there asking him the same thing, and he pointed at a mail truck that had just pulled up outside and said, "They're right in there!" They brought them in and I snatched UYI I & II, took them back to my dorm, and listened straight through for several hours.

Since then, I've been waiting for their follow-up (I don't count The Spaghetti Incident as it was all covers). I can remember often, when I was in a supermarket and bored, going over to the magazine section and while I was there, checking out the latest issue of Metal Edge or Hit Parader, in hopes of finding some info. on a new GNR album. PEOPLE, THIS WAS IN 1996!!! LOL. Yes, it's been a long, hard, patient road for us true blue guns fans. When I heard Slash quit I thought that was the end. Then when I heard Axl was trying to rebuild something great, I have always been following his progress over the years, hoping he succeeds.

Anyway, that is the background on me, to show my comments come from someone with a lot of knowledge about the band, and that I'm not someone who has only heard Greatest Hits. With that in mind, here's what I think (drumroll, LOL).........

I think anyone who thinks these leaks are a disappointment, is insane. LOL, okay I know it's music so it is subjective, therefore it obviously can be a disappointment. But just from my own perspective, these songs are even greater than I had hoped for. The man has not been just sitting in his studio playing tiddly winks all these years, people. Even as rough demos, these songs have "it." As people often say, you can't describe what "it" is, you just know "it" when you hear it.

I guess if I could describe one thing similar about the 3 songs, they all have momentum. They are alive, and dammit they are going somewhere. This is some very cool creative stuff. I actually feel that about these 3 songs more than I do about either Maddy or The Blues, both of which I like very much.

As for "Axl's new sound," if you want to call it that, I think it is beautiful. I love the old songs as much as anyone, but if we had 3 versions of "It's So Easy," it would seem rather forced and false to me. Those songs were written when Axl was sleeping in doorways and collecting spare change to get biscuits and gravy at Denny's, not when he was in his 40's and living in Malibu with a large black man named Earl.

Whatever faults Axl Rose has, the man has always been uncompromisingly, unflinchingly honest. What he is feeling comes out exactly in his songs, whether it is love, hate, prejudice, rage, kindness, or sadness. That is also why I find the rumor of him "purposely leaking the tracks," to be ludicrous. Axl Rose is not the kind of person who is going to subversively leak tracks to the public, in the vain hope that he will be more popular. This guy has resisted the hunger of the public for his music for over a DECADE, just because he didn't believe in releasing anything unless it was 100% exactly what he envisioned. Do you really think he would want to leak a DEMO, the very definition of an unfinished product, to the public? Preposterous.

As to other objections: Axl's voice. I have laughed at this one for years. People saying, "His voice has gotten worse, it sounded too 'clear' during the '02 tour!" Give me a break. I always knew that was BS, a person's voice gets BETTER as they get older, not worse. Any great singer can tell you that. If a person's voice was great at 25, it will be even better and fuller at 45, that is just a fact (unless they horrifically abuse it). So it's no surprise to me his voice sounds great. I would guess his songwriting abilities have improved as well (as the tracks would bear out).

I also think it is funny when people say, "These tracks aren't as good as on Use Your Illusion." See, us old people remember when those CDs first came out, and people were slagging on the UYI tracks back then, the same way some are on these demos right now. Fast forward 15 years, and suddenly the UYI tracks are revered. Don't get me wrong I love the UYI albums, I just think it's kind of funny because I remember people complaining the same way 15 years ago. "The songs are too different, it doesn't sound like Appetite, etc., etc." Now songs like Estranged are considered sacro-sanct. But in 1991, all you heard was "I wish there were more Welcome to the Jungles on here, what is all this weird sh*t."

It's hard to describe what you feel about music, about it's quality. But you just know it when you hear it. When I listen to TWAT, yes it is very rough and needs editing, but if you can't hear the genius potential in that thing, you have the musical acumen of a spider monkey. I mean, come on. It baffles me that some people can't hear that.

Do I think these songs could have been written with Slash? Maybe if they tied him up somewhere while they worked on the songs. I mean, I love Slash, but he is perfect for Appetite-style rock, not this stuff. The man is a genius of bluesy, hard rock, but I can't see him ever signing off on this stuff unless Earl was sitting on him. If that is the case, I am glad he left. I get a lot more excited about this new stuff, then the prospect of hearing Velvet Revolver with Axl singing the lyrics.

As for IRS, that is actually the song of the 3 I am least excited about, perhaps because it is the most traditional. I think it is a very good song and would fit in great with any of the rockers on the Illusions, it's just that I am more excited about the stuff I am hearing on TWAT and Better. At first I did not think much of TWAT, but then after I listened to it a few times, I was at work, and started hearing it in my head, over and over again. I thought damn, why do I keep hearing this? The sh*t was growing on me, right away. Now I listen to it every day, and its potential just looms more and more each time I listen to it. Anyone else feel that way?

Something I don't get is the people who complain about the intro to Better. I LOVE the intro to better. I think that is one of the best parts of the song. Don't change a thing, Axl! To me, Better is the kind of song I just want to get into my convertible with, and zoom off down the street listening to it full blast, with the top down. Too bad I don't have a convertible, but if I did, dammit, I'd be listening to Better in it! And just think, we haven't even heard the whole song!

To people who say, "their isn't a single," I would say Better would make a great one, that's my opinion anyway. I think the public, non-GNR fans would really get into it. And, I believe there are at least 6 more songs we haven't heard that will be just as good or better.

These new songs just have me stoked, this is the best news out of GNR land I've had since 1994, people!!!! In a way it is funny, we had absolutely NOTHING for years after years, and now all of a sudden, boom boom boom, we have 3 leaks, announcements of tour dates, multiple Axl Rose sightings, etc. It is all a little too much to take! I feel like a diabetic in a chocolate factory.

Anyway, excuse the rambling, I just wanted to express some things I hadn't seen a lot of other people say.

[T Patten]

Way too much to read...

[*Dreamer*]

too long to read, but I did read some of it, and it's good to see an intelligent post after those "newbie" threads, and to see some positive views on the new song.

Edited February 22, 2006 by axlrose2

[F*ck Fear]

Some people here have bad eye sight or something

I agree with your post man...I wasn't there to buy Illusions the day it came out,as I am only 20 years old now,but I have been listening to it and Appetite since I was about 7 or 8.

I really dig these songs,IRS less then Better and There Was A Time,but that's still a good tune.

I think each album is great for what they were. Appetite will forever be my favoite Guns album,and the Illusions will always have a spot in my cd player,as I love those albums as well. Different yes,but great none the less.

Chinese Democracy is going to be great. And that's just going by what I've heard live and in demo.

[Lukin]

I think that the Illusion albums were awsome. Sure, they were hard to handle at first when they came out cause first of all there was so many songs and second the albums where so different compared to Appetite and all the other music being created at the same time. Still, I think that the Illusion albums are amazing and I porbably listen to a Guns song every single day.

[Longpig]

Great post Kalahari!!

I’m pretty old too, and see where you’re coming from! 

I agree with all of your post except the bit about the voice being better at 45 than 25 – We all know that’s nonsense I think the voice is better at 30 maybe 35 than 25, but not 45 – obviously I’m referring to the style of singing Axl is trying to achieve! Anyway I still think Axl’s voice is great now, and these demos prove it.

The rest of your post echoes my feelings exactly.

For those of you who were disappointed with the illusions and the new stuff then you have to understand that musicians need to grow otherwise you become a joke and get bored. If GnR released appetite 2 and 3 instead of the illusions and disappeared then no-one would be interested 2 years later let alone 15 years. You would not have this forum to write in.

LP

[Resignation]

I'm With You. rock1

[final_touches]

Agreed. Great post!

[Budweiser]

Excellent read, bro. Im glad to hear something else other than people's naysaying bullshit about the leaks - They ARE fucking amazing - Not in the quality, but rather their potential - NO DEMO should be graded on their quality - If you do, youre an idiot. Plain and simple.

[macunaima]

I just wanted to add my voice to those who agree with almost everything kalahari said.

I too, first became a fan back in 1988. But I also think that (minus the fillers), UYI I&II were actually better than AfD. UYI was not more comercial than AfD so the comparison to Metallica is off; it was different, yes, but it represented a natural evolution of their sound. If the best 10 or 12 tracks off the UYI albums had been put on one album, Gn'R would've accomplished what I think no other hand in the history of rock has ever done: to follow up a massively popular debut album with something that is at the same time unique but continuous with the debut, and actually even better.

I'm also very excited about the new songs, especially TWAT and Better. It seems Axl has found a way to keep moving forward musically; what he's doing is new, different, but at the same time classic and beautiful. Can't wait for the album to come out...let us hope it will be some time this decade.

[adnan]

Yeah. I agree with your post fully. I hate how people diss the UYI albums, there were some amazing tracks on there. Although AFD is slightly better.

[macunaima]

I agree that one great (or at least one really good album) could be made from the two UYI cd's. But for me, the songs I'd cut are the epic Axl numbers. I realize that most of the fans love Estranged and all it's dolphin fucking glory, but I think the real winners on UYI were tracks like You Could Be Mine, Dust And Bones, and 14 Years.

Actually, I think the best possible UYI album would contain epics like Civil War, Estranged and NR, as well as more classic hard rockers like the ones you mention. I like the progressive epics -- they show Axl's musical ambition -- but I also like the hard rockers. An proper culling of UYI I&II into one album would've been better than AfD and a natural evolution and development (not a repetition) of their sound.

...oh, and while I do love Estranged, I also think the dolphins were a bit much.

Edited February 22, 2006 by macunaima

[Budweiser]

...oh, and while I do love Estranged, I also think the dolphins were a bit much.

Why?

[Tase]

great post man!! i totaly agree with you !

just like everything else... the new sound just needs people to give it time

[Budweiser]

What's wrong with dolphins? Let me try to explain.

Dolphins. Axl swims with dolphins. Massive dolphins swim out of the back of an airplane. Axl shows up on a huge ship. He dives into the water. Some dude in a boat tries to save him, but Axl would rather swim with pretty dolphins. Then he loses one of his personalized tennis shoes. Axl just out Rushed Neal Peart.

What is cool about that? I really, honestly can't tell. Please explain it to me.

Compare Dolphin Orgy to a lyric like "Wake up late, put on your coat and take your credit card to the liquor store."

Why compare a dolphin "orgy" to those lyrics - They are not related AT ALL. And that song has absolutely no similarity to the premis of estranged other than that axl wrote them both.

But I would compare the dolphins and jumping off a boat and being all alone not wanting to be saved by anyone to these lyrics:

Well I jumped into the river

Too many times to make it home

I'm out here on my own, an drifting all alone

guess what song those lyrics are from.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------

And seriously -Anybody that agrees with anything Riki "Im the biggest dueche in rock" Rachtman has to say has either 1) watched too much VH1 or 2) has terrible taste in anything.

There was a reason why GNR trashed his set....

Edited February 22, 2006 by Budweiser

[quadlaser]

great post man, truly a pleasure to read, you oughtta post more often.

i disagree with you on axl's voice, but that's for another day

[ChineseIRS]

Watch the making of Estranged and then you'll know why they used dolphins.

[sweetness]

I just wanted to add my voice to those who agree with almost everything kalahari said.

I too, first became a fan back in 1988. But I also think that (minus the fillers), UYI I&II were actually better than AfD. UYI was not more comercial than AfD so the comparison to Metallica is off; it was different, yes, but it represented a natural evolution of their sound. If the best 10 or 12 tracks off the UYI albums had been put on one album, Gn'R would've accomplished what I think no other hand in the history of rock has ever done: to follow up a massively popular debut album with something that is at the same time unique but continuous with the debut, and actually even better.

I'm also very excited about the new songs, especially TWAT and Better. It seems Axl has found a way to keep moving forward musically; what he's doing is new, different, but at the same time classic and beautiful. Can't wait for the album to come out...let us hope it will be some time this decade.

They did that, the album was simply called Use Your Illusion

[macunaima]

If the best 10 or 12 tracks off the UYI albums had been put on one album, Gn'R would've accomplished what I think no other hand in the history of rock has ever done: to follow up a massively popular debut album with something that is at the same time unique but continuous with the debut, and actually even better.

They did that, the album was simply called Use Your Illusion

Yeah, but the picked the wrong songs.

[sweetness]

If the best 10 or 12 tracks off the UYI albums had been put on one album, Gn'R would've accomplished what I think no other hand in the history of rock has ever done: to follow up a massively popular debut album with something that is at the same time unique but continuous with the debut, and actually even better.

They did that, the album was simply called Use Your Illusion

Yeah, but the picked the wrong songs.

I never really looked at the playlist so I could'nt tell. What songs are on it?

[shootingstar]

One of the best posts I´ve ever read!!! But maby a bit too long :krider:

[ralebava]

Dont mind on my english, im trying to do my best....

Who is in agreement with me on this.?

I think that the new gnr music is ok, but in the case of TWAT and CITR i was thinking this: That songs are very good, i wish someday compose something like that, BUT i think that the songs needs a master melody, i think that the verses are very long, and are not defined melodically. On "better" and "irs" is different, we have a master melody repeated in all the song....

What do you think of this guys?

[W. Axl Kev]

I agree actually. Do you mean that the songs kind of aimlessly move forward and don't seem to have a defined chorus? If so I agree intensley. I love them though, they are creative and I admire that.

[coeus2k]

Dont mind on my english, im trying to do my best....

Who is in agreement with me on this.?

I think that the new gnr music is ok, but in the case of TWAT and CITR i was thinking this: That songs are very good, i wish someday compose something like that, BUT i think that the songs needs a master melody, i think that the verses are very long, and are not defined melodically. On "better" and "irs" is different, we have a master melody repeated in all the song....

What do you think of this guys?

I think variation is good and you should be a little more open minded.

[Jmm]

I agree expecialy when reffering to CITR...

Anyway the songs are awsome rock1