Your take on the new songs in general....

[eschman]

The best newbie thread I read in this forum.100% agree with your points.

The best is that there is nothing about a reunion .

Read the post above yours.

Still has argument over the use of the GnR name... blah blah blah.

[SylvesterStallone]

Guns N' Roses never broke up. The douches left one by one, Axl HAD to hire new musicians.

It's not like the whole band broke up and then Axl decided to form a new one and call it GN'R. If Duff was still there people wouldn't want the name to change, but after he left, no, Axl & Dizzy weren't enough to still be GN'R.

This is Guns N' Fuckin Roses people.

Dude....shut the fuck up please....you aren't a spokesman for the fans

The fact that you refer to the old members as douches destroys your credibility.

[SylvesterStallone]

Master of the obvious I suppose, but this material seems like a nice segue from UYI to the next album. It's about on par with the jump from AFD to UYI. It seems like the most logical progression of Guns N Roses to modernize itself but keep its roots somewhat in tact(bluesy sound)...

Now what I'm wondering is, at the risk of beating a dead horse, why in gods name couldn't the old band have played this music? I can understand OMG not being in the style of the old band and apparently a song Duff and Matt hated. But the new material is much more in the traditional guns style and daresay much lighter in tone. This isn't abrasive NIN style music. Its like a more evolved UYI style mixed with *elements* of industrial and electronica to make it modern. It's a cool mix, I dig it a lot. The solos aside from the bucket shredding could have easily been done with Slash.

I think this is going to be one of those constant observations from critics of Chinese Democracy, this material could have been recorded with the old band.

For example, the final bluesy solo in "Better" coincidentally the most gnrish song, cant you just picture Slash walking out on stage with his tophat and a marlboro dangling from his lips ripping that solo from his les paul? When I heard that solo the first thought that came to me was "Slash?!"....

For the record it looks like all members of the new band have done a great job on these songs, Finck in the studio seems to have earned his place in the band with that solo in Better....

Edited March 5, 2006 by SylvesterStallone

[Funeral]

I agree with you dude......don't know why the old members where so against progression?

It would have been great to se them all together doing this stuff back then....rather than just beating the same old sound to death!

I love where Axl is heading with this new GNR.

[ironicninja]

If you look at the songwriting credits on the Illusion albums, a lot of the songs where Slash has a credit are what I would call "riff rockers" (for lack of a better term). So far there haven't been any songs that are quite like that, and maybe that's what the other guys would have preferred to do.. Yes, most of the leaked songs would not sound out of place on the Illusions, but they're Axl-type songs.

[Axls_Disillusion]

Its not that the ex-members couldn't do this stuff

they don't want to and they didn't want to be a part of this.

[Appetite For Waiting]

Its not that the ex-members couldn't do this stuff

they don't want to and they didn't want to be a part of this.

Yes it is. Slash, Duff and Matt would kill to play on a song as good as The Blues.

[Axls_Disillusion]

Its not that the ex-members couldn't do this stuff

they don't want to and they didn't want to be a part of this.

Yes it is. Slash, Duff and Matt would kill to play on a song as good as The Blues.

[SylvesterStallone]

If you look at the songwriting credits on the Illusion albums, a lot of the songs where Slash has a credit are what I would call "riff rockers" (for lack of a better term). So far there haven't been any songs that are quite like that, and maybe that's what the other guys would have preferred to do.. Yes, most of the leaked songs would not sound out of place on the Illusions, but they're Axl-type songs.

You mean like the coma/head banging songs? If so I agree, I'm really curious what Uncle Axl has got for us in CD but writing those hard rock bone crunching songs like You Could Be Mine/Nightrain was more Slash/Izzy's department....Axl is great for ballads and writing lyrics. That's why the old band were a deadly combination, their harder edge with Axl's epic ballad style was a great marriage.

[Guest Matt13]

I agree with Sly. There's nothing that we've heard -so far- that would seem out of place from a normal jump in sound from a UYI follow up. There is still a lot of that old GNR sound there, but I think that has to do with Axl more than anything else... his voice and his desire for epic sounding songs. UYI in fact could almost be called Axl's first solo project...lol... with a lot of the 'filler' cuts being stuff by the other guys. At least I think so.

Anyway, why did the old guys not want to move forward with something like this? Well, I think we need to ask that question when (and if) another album comes out after Chinese Democracy. Axl said at some point that he was going to gently transition over to his ultimate directional goal. I think CD is going to be that 'transition' album and we're going to hear something way off base from 'Slash sounding' GNR in the follow up to CD.

Does that sound plausible?

[Nick85]

I agree with Sly. There's nothing that we've heard -so far- that would seem out of place from a normal jump in sound from a UYI follow up. There is still a lot of that old GNR sound there, but I think that has to do with Axl more than anything else... his voice and his desire for epic sounding songs. UYI in fact could almost be called Axl's first solo project...lol... with a lot of the 'filler' cuts being stuff by the other guys. At least I think so.

Anyway, why did the old guys not want to move forward with something like this? Well, I think we need to ask that question when (and if) another album comes out after Chinese Democracy. Axl said at some point that he was going to gently transition over to his ultimate directional goal. I think CD is going to be that 'transition' album and we're going to hear something way off base from 'Slash sounding' GNR in the follow up to CD.

Does that sound plausible?

"I just dont wanna work that hard." That was Slash's response to Axl when he was trying to explain to him that he wanted GN'R to evolve with the times. To me, Slash is a hypocrite. Just listen to VR. Slash and co adjusted to the times and are now playing in an alternative rock band with mediocre solos. The whole reason he left GNR was to escape that. It doesnt make sense. Slash was so fucked up on drugs and booze in the mid nineties that he turned himself into a nonsensicle lazy musician that simply couldnt share Axls vision for the future of GNR.

EVERY successful band adjusts its sounds slightly to the times. Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, The Who, even The Beatles later albums sounded dramatically different than their first ones. Slash just didnt understand that. He dropped the ball on Guns N' Roses. God bless W. Axl Rose.

[Axls_Disillusion]

"I just dont wanna work that hard." That was Slash's response to Axl when he was trying to explain to him that he wanted GN'R to evolve with the times. To me, Slash is a hypocrite. Just listen to VR. Slash and co adjusted to the times and are now playing in an alternative rock band with mediocre solos. The whole reason he left GNR was to escape that. It doesnt make sense. Slash was so fucked up on drugs and booze in the mid nineties that he turned himself into a nonsensicle lazy musician that simply couldnt share Axls vision for the future of GNR.

EVERY successful band adjusts its sounds slightly to the times. Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, The Who, even The Beatles later albums sounded dramatically different than their first ones. Slash just didnt understand that. He dropped the ball on Guns N' Roses. God bless W. Axl Rose.

Very nice!

[Carne_asaDA]

I agree with Sly. There's nothing that we've heard -so far- that would seem out of place from a normal jump in sound from a UYI follow up. There is still a lot of that old GNR sound there, but I think that has to do with Axl more than anything else... his voice and his desire for epic sounding songs. UYI in fact could almost be called Axl's first solo project...lol... with a lot of the 'filler' cuts being stuff by the other guys. At least I think so.

Anyway, why did the old guys not want to move forward with something like this? Well, I think we need to ask that question when (and if) another album comes out after Chinese Democracy. Axl said at some point that he was going to gently transition over to his ultimate directional goal. I think CD is going to be that 'transition' album and we're going to hear something way off base from 'Slash sounding' GNR in the follow up to CD.

Does that sound plausible?

"I just dont wanna work that hard." That was Slash's response to Axl when he was trying to explain to him that he wanted GN'R to evolve with the times. To me, Slash is a hypocrite. Just listen to VR. Slash and co adjusted to the times and are now playing in an alternative rock band with mediocre solos. The whole reason he left GNR was to escape that. It doesnt make sense. Slash was so fucked up on drugs and booze in the mid nineties that he turned himself into a nonsensicle lazy musician that simply couldnt share Axls vision for the future of GNR.

EVERY successful band adjusts its sounds slightly to the times. Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, The Who, even The Beatles later albums sounded dramatically different than their first ones. Slash just didnt understand that. He dropped the ball on Guns N' Roses. God bless W. Axl Rose.

Or maybe Slash left because how Axl treated everybody in the band. Axl was not a pleasure to work with. Listen to the So Fine performance during the show in Dayton Ohio. The show where Axl sliced his hand.

[Guest Matt13]

I agree with Sly. There's nothing that we've heard -so far- that would seem out of place from a normal jump in sound from a UYI follow up. There is still a lot of that old GNR sound there, but I think that has to do with Axl more than anything else... his voice and his desire for epic sounding songs. UYI in fact could almost be called Axl's first solo project...lol... with a lot of the 'filler' cuts being stuff by the other guys. At least I think so.

Anyway, why did the old guys not want to move forward with something like this? Well, I think we need to ask that question when (and if) another album comes out after Chinese Democracy. Axl said at some point that he was going to gently transition over to his ultimate directional goal. I think CD is going to be that 'transition' album and we're going to hear something way off base from 'Slash sounding' GNR in the follow up to CD.

Does that sound plausible?

"I just dont wanna work that hard." That was Slash's response to Axl when he was trying to explain to him that he wanted GN'R to evolve with the times. To me, Slash is a hypocrite. Just listen to VR. Slash and co adjusted to the times and are now playing in an alternative rock band with mediocre solos. The whole reason he left GNR was to escape that. It doesnt make sense. Slash was so fucked up on drugs and booze in the mid nineties that he turned himself into a nonsensicle lazy musician that simply couldnt share Axls vision for the future of GNR.

EVERY successful band adjusts its sounds slightly to the times. Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, The Who, even The Beatles later albums sounded dramatically different than their first ones. Slash just didnt understand that. He dropped the ball on Guns N' Roses. God bless W. Axl Rose.

Well, he's not a hypocrite. He was running out of money to sustain his lifestyle. What do you do when it's time to maintain a healthy income? Adjust to the times. He tried with his countless Snakepit albums, which I can enjoy, but the mainstream just didn't care for it. When it was time to get serious again and get the dollar rolling back in the door in a semi-decent way at least, they formed a 'Super Group'. I mean, hey, Ausioslave did it?

Fact is, I think maturity and common sense has finally gotten through to the old guys that, hey, we can't just keep making the same run-of-the-mill rock album. Contraband was about as close as they could get to that with a frontman like Weiland. I wouldn't call the new stuff grunge... in fact... I never really considered STP full blown grunge. More like metal/blues/grunge. A good mix for the times. Both Weiland and the old GNR guys played off of their past and put out a good rock album... lots of old GNR sounds in there and lots of STP mixed in. It was/is a different sound compared to what's on popular radio today, and the mainstream liked it. Much like the semi-great success 'The Darkness' enjoyed with their album that did well last year. But, they just put out a new album (I think... heard a song from it on the radio a while back) and nobody even cares about it. Their hit album was nothing more than a breath of fresh air. A follow up that sounds just like the first just isn't going to work... if it's a familiar sound.

VR is going to have the same problem. If they don't evolve with their sound and take it to the next level on their follow up, it's going to bomb. Terribly. Another Contraband is not going to cut it. That's why they're talking about a 'concept album' all of a sudden. They finally realize they have to evolve or be left behind with empty wallets.

The only way to succeed with the same sound is by CREATING a new sound. Or at least making it popular. Refer to The Beatles, Zepplin or most recently, Nine Inch Nails. If you try to copy that sound, it's only going to be popular as long as that's what's "in".

It's like fashion. The Beatles are to music what jeans are to the fashion industry. They're never going to get old, but if you copy them you might have initial success... but in the long run you become obsolete, overshadowed by the original or a new style. 'The Darkness' is a play off of glam metal. Like bell-bottoms in the fashion world, it's a cool trend for a bit, but then goes away. In 10 years, it might be cool again. But you can't expect to mimic what's already been introduced to the world and survive on it forever. 'The Darkness' is facing that reality and so will VR if they don't evolve a bit to keep up with the times or at least do something very interesting with a concept album.

Hope that made sense... I pull this shit out of my ass sometimes.

[Charisteas]

I agree with you dude......don't know why the old members where so against progression?

In 1994-99, AXL was all about the sort of style that was heard on "Oh My God". That's the style that AXL wanted to go to. None of the old guys wanted that, so they left.

After "Oh My God" was released, and it got bad reviews in the media and etc.. it seems AXL went back to a more traditional rock and roll style to his music. I think all these new leaks were recorded after Oh My God. Axl just changed his style.

To say the old guys were against progression is laughable. They did record the Illusion records, remember! That was a huge change in the band's style, and it pissed off a lot of fans, but gained them a million more.

Slash wanted to go back to the roots of the band. What made them big in the first place. You can't fault the guy for wanting to do that. GNR is a bluesy rock and roll band whether you like it or not. The difference between them and others at the time is that they had more of a cross genre appeal then others. They appealed to punk, metal, classic rock, dirty rock fans, and hit it big with the more adult crowd with the ballads. Every member brought something real different to the table, and that's what made them untochable.

This new material is not that much different then the material on the UYI's. I hope AXL does fine with the new records, and he succeeds. But I can't help to wonder how much better these tracks would be if the originals played on them.

[Nick85]

I agree with Sly. There's nothing that we've heard -so far- that would seem out of place from a normal jump in sound from a UYI follow up. There is still a lot of that old GNR sound there, but I think that has to do with Axl more than anything else... his voice and his desire for epic sounding songs. UYI in fact could almost be called Axl's first solo project...lol... with a lot of the 'filler' cuts being stuff by the other guys. At least I think so.

Anyway, why did the old guys not want to move forward with something like this? Well, I think we need to ask that question when (and if) another album comes out after Chinese Democracy. Axl said at some point that he was going to gently transition over to his ultimate directional goal. I think CD is going to be that 'transition' album and we're going to hear something way off base from 'Slash sounding' GNR in the follow up to CD.

Does that sound plausible?

"I just dont wanna work that hard." That was Slash's response to Axl when he was trying to explain to him that he wanted GN'R to evolve with the times. To me, Slash is a hypocrite. Just listen to VR. Slash and co adjusted to the times and are now playing in an alternative rock band with mediocre solos. The whole reason he left GNR was to escape that. It doesnt make sense. Slash was so fucked up on drugs and booze in the mid nineties that he turned himself into a nonsensicle lazy musician that simply couldnt share Axls vision for the future of GNR.

EVERY successful band adjusts its sounds slightly to the times. Aerosmith, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, The Who, even The Beatles later albums sounded dramatically different than their first ones. Slash just didnt understand that. He dropped the ball on Guns N' Roses. God bless W. Axl Rose.

Or maybe Slash left because how Axl treated everybody in the band. Axl was not a pleasure to work with. Listen to the So Fine performance during the show in Dayton Ohio. The show where Axl sliced his hand.

Or maybe you should try making 3 spoiled drug addicts cooperate with your vision for a band when they are too set in their ways to realize that another Apetite For Destruction, amazing as it is, wouldnt exactly fly in the year 1995. Its not exactly easy to treat your band members "nice" in a situation like that.

Look, all im saying is that Axl gets a bad rap for the breakup of the origional lineup when i think everyone did their part in fucking it up, even Slash.

Edited March 6, 2006 by sofine11

[aussie_axl]

If you look at the songwriting credits on the Illusion albums, a lot of the songs where Slash has a credit are what I would call "riff rockers" (for lack of a better term). So far there haven't been any songs that are quite like that, and maybe that's what the other guys would have preferred to do.. Yes, most of the leaked songs would not sound out of place on the Illusions, but they're Axl-type songs.

You mean like the coma/head banging songs? If so I agree, I'm really curious what Uncle Axl has got for us in CD but writing those hard rock bone crunching songs like You Could Be Mine/Nightrain was more Slash/Izzy's department....Axl is great for ballads and writing lyrics. That's why the old band were a deadly combination, their harder edge with Axl's epic ballad style was a great marriage.

i agree again sly, it's something i think cd will lack to my personal disappointment, we have been hearing some new great ballads from axl, even catchy pop style rock songs, but i don't think we will get any real bad ass rockers that slash and izzy brought to the table ? axl migh try some, maybe one or 2 if we are lucky, maybe axl just doesn't want to write them > ? who knows.......we don't.

but it's something i'll miss about the old guns.

Edited March 6, 2006 by aussie_axl

[gernm18]

i think its irrelevant, they both chose different paths, man and that solo in better, that sounds a lot like buckethead, its real awesome

[gernm18]

i just wanted to make a thread just for those who have heard the new songs and actually think they are awesome songs, and that these songs have touched them deeply the way the old guns n roses songs did, thats how i really feel with songs like better and catcher in the rye(i havent listened to twat and irs that much)

but i just feel the need to express my feelings here, and that im real happy, its such an inspiration to see this aggressive songs, regardless of whether you like them or not, theyre real ballsy of axl, to make something so different and ORIGINAL

and i cant wait for chinese democracy but at the same time i could wait 5 years more with these 4 songs, im real happy and as a musician im inspired to be aggressive music wise and in my life, i dont know if any of you out there felt that way, but for me these songs have meant a lot

these songs remind me so much of the first time i heard guns n roses, how i was in shock and how much they touched me

thanks axl

[wasted]

It's not that the old band couldn't play this stuff. But they didn't want to wait so long and take direction from Axl. They didn't believe in Axl. Why walk away if you were with Axl on this? Why not stay and work with him. Axl gives people what they want and this is Slash it's not the pizza delivery boy.

I think there really was a power struggle going on in terms of who took credit for the success. I think the audience or people really thought Axl was the one who was responsible for AFD and UYI. Whereas I think the band players (Slash Izzy) thought they deserved more and wanted to take the band more towards them just releasing albums or rock n roll songs. Where Axl would have just been a singer in a band rather than what he is now which is totally in control of the output of GNR. Axl is now central. CITR is Axl. I think Slash really wanted to be in a glam version of Metrallica.

[Alan Niveen]

It's a shame that Slash, Duff and Izzy aren't there to play the new stuff. Plus they would have brought some kickass songs...

[Alan Niveen]

Don't be stupid. Songs like It's So Easy, Nightrain or Paradise City were not written by Axl.

[Axls_Disillusion]

It's a shame that Slash, Duff and Izzy aren't there to play the new stuff. Plus they would have brought some kickass songs...

not really. They didn't want to be there, and we have better musicans in the band as a result.

[Alan Niveen]

You think Finck is a better guitarist than Slash or Izzy ?

[odonodar]

These new songs are closing the black hole that I feel has existed since Lies. There was 'maybe' enough material for a single UYI album but even still it was over-produced and the songs lacked that GnR edge. Tip - listen to these new songs as loud as you can get them in your car .... I consistently get goose-bumps, particulaly with TWAT which will explode when released - there's been nothing CLOSE to this energy, creativity and talent for over 10 years (I don't understand the comparisons I've read with Estranged and TWAT - it's like comparing a trot to a gallop). CITR is also amazing and is just a great song to listen to.

My take on the new songs in general ..... I am very impressed and excited ... and the extravagant wait may just be worth it!