Demo releases, UYI tour, lessons learned & marketing

[MetaSouL]

Question:

What can be gained by GNRs marketing team leaking the entire album (in DEMO form only), song by song, one at a time, prior to the pre-tour dates and prior to the full album release?

Answer:

The hype builds, word spreads, press releases skyrocket, momentum gains, all in favor of inflating album sales when the real deal is released. Axl wins.

Fans learn the songs, know the words by heart, go the concerts prior to the release and are actually into the songs (because they know them), avoiding the problems encountered in the early 91 tour prior to the UYI release when no one knew the tunes. Again, Axl wins.

I'd say it is very plausible that the most of the album's demo version songs WILL BE leaked to generate the hype and get the fans familiar with the new material without compromising album sales. Now if it were the full production album that was leaked, that's an entirely different and unfavorable scenario. But with DEMO releases, everyone wins and Axl walks away with more $$ in his pocket.

[KIKOZ3]

Question:

What can be gained by GNRs marketing team leaking the entire album (in DEMO form only), song by song, one at a time, prior to the pre-tour dates and prior to the full album release?

Answer:

The hype builds, word spreads, press releases skyrocket, momentum gains, all in favor of inflating album sales when the real deal is released. Axl wins.

Fans learn the songs, know the words by heart, go the concerts prior to the release and are actually into the songs (because they know them), avoiding the problems encountered in the early 91 tour prior to the UYI release when no one knew the tunes. Again, Axl wins.

I'd say it is very plausible that the most of the album's demo version songs WILL BE leaked to generate the hype and get the fans familiar with the new material without compromising album sales. Now if it were the full production album that was leaked, that's an entirely different and unfavorable scenario. But with DEMO releases, everyone wins and Axl walks away with more $$ in his pocket.

OKAY ! Thanks teacher .

[MetaSouL]

Question:

What can be gained by GNRs marketing team leaking the entire album (in DEMO form only), song by song, one at a time, prior to the pre-tour dates and prior to the full album release?

Answer:

The hype builds, word spreads, press releases skyrocket, momentum gains, all in favor of inflating album sales when the real deal is released. Axl wins.

Fans learn the songs, know the words by heart, go the concerts prior to the release and are actually into the songs (because they know them), avoiding the problems encountered in the early 91 tour prior to the UYI release when no one knew the tunes. Again, Axl wins.

I'd say it is very plausible that the most of the album's demo version songs WILL BE leaked to generate the hype and get the fans familiar with the new material without compromising album sales. Now if it were the full production album that was leaked, that's an entirely different and unfavorable scenario. But with DEMO releases, everyone wins and Axl walks away with more $$ in his pocket.

OKAY ! Thanks teacher .

You're welcome. Now put your hat back on and get back in the corner.

Seriously, we've heard a lot about how it generates hype and will positively affect sales, but there has been little to no discussion on the plausibility of simply getting the fans familiar with the new tunes prior to the tour.

Edited February 25, 2006 by MetaSouL

[deegg]

nice unput there

[oneway23]

it's nice to see someone raise a topic of discussion here...Honestly, I don't believe that to be the case anymore, but for the sake of conversation, I will just add that leaking all the songs in demo form would go a long way in giving both the older guns fans who may be skeptical of the new band (And Axl's new vision)and the newer generation who may have sadly grown up without knowing of GNR an opportunity to get hyped...Hopefully, the success of IRS on WAAF and other like-minded stations will at least result in higher attendance figures when Axl gets a full-blown tour off the ground.

[RnT]

I agree with you MetaSoul, but none of these few songs (even the "old" ones - Madagascar, Blues, CD ) have the chords like Sweet Child, Don´t Cry, Paradise City, Nightrain... you know? people will get familiar, just it with these few leaked songs IMO

[busngabb]

If it is coming from inside and they are releasing old demos of all the songs deliberately, there is only one reason for this.

So they can play the songs live this year, without the need to release the album. I don't think we'll see that this year.

[Takeshi]

What can be gained from leaking a subpar version of your product into the market? Well, you get to create a negative impression of the product in the minds of potential customers, who will already have decided that your new product isn't interesting to them before it even goes on sale.

There are people who believe that everything that happens in releation to Axl Rose is part of some grand plan and that Axl is the master of how to manipulate the media. If this was true then he would have a much better public profile. At the moment, he's portrayed as a hermit and a weirdo and the demos have been getting slammed on radio stations for days. Hardly a good start to promoting the new album.

The idea that Axl wants to leak demos so that we'll know the songs when we see the band live is bizarre. If CD is released the day a world tour starts, then for most fans they will be listening to the album for weeks or months before GN'R does a gig anywhere near them. So really what you're saying is that he leaked the songs for the fans in the cities on the first couple of dates on the tour. Still think it's a realistic prospect?

[Toompah]

I agree with you MetaSoul, but none of these few songs (even the "old" ones - Madagascar, Blues, CD ) have the chords like Sweet Child, Don´t Cry, Paradise City, Nightrain... you know? people will get familiar, just it with these few leaked songs IMO

i highly doubt that even amongst the younger generations there are people who dont know the old guns classics. i wasnt there when the rolling stones were hot in the 60's and even before getting seriously into them, i already knew songs like satisfaction or brown sugar. this is the same thing. GNR is classic, they dont need anything to keep attracting kids who werent even born when AFD was released.

i think it's good marketing to give us the leaks, any press and hype are good

Edited February 25, 2006 by Toompah

[Roses eats Lions]

I agree with you MetaSoul, but none of these few songs (even the "old" ones - Madagascar, Blues, CD ) have the chords like Sweet Child, Don´t Cry, Paradise City, Nightrain... you know? people will get familiar, just it with these few leaked songs IMO

IRS does!

[dobadog]

Question:

What can be gained by GNRs marketing team leaking the entire album (in DEMO form only), song by song, one at a time, prior to the pre-tour dates and prior to the full album release?

Answer:

The hype builds, word spreads, press releases skyrocket, momentum gains, all in favor of inflating album sales when the real deal is released. Axl wins.

Fans learn the songs, know the words by heart, go the concerts prior to the release and are actually into the songs (because they know them), avoiding the problems encountered in the early 91 tour prior to the UYI release when no one knew the tunes. Again, Axl wins.

I'd say it is very plausible that the most of the album's demo version songs WILL BE leaked to generate the hype and get the fans familiar with the new material without compromising album sales. Now if it were the full production album that was leaked, that's an entirely different and unfavorable scenario. But with DEMO releases, everyone wins and Axl walks away with more $$ in his pocket.

Here, take this gold star

[vicious]

you raise some good points but i really doubt axl is leaking these tracks.

i had a funny thought a while ago: wat if its buckethead leaking the demos?

can you imagine him behind his computer uploadin the tracks while laughing at axl?

[MetaSouL]

It's anyones guess. I just keep thinking of the problems surrounding the initial launch of of the UYI tour when no one knew the songs. At that time, the bands management acknowleged it as a problem. Hell, Axl walked out early on more than one concert (Utah for example) because the fans weren't "into it" due to the fact they didn't know what the hell the band was playing.

In response to to demos hurting sales because they are "sub-par", we all know that isn't reality. Look at WAAF press release stating the overall response was "positive", look at this board, how many new people have been hanging out here and how much publicity has this band gotten compared to if nothing was leaked? Its like GNR is making a comeback underground in preparation for what is to come. If nothing leaked and the album was released tomorrow would it sell more or less? We all know the leaks have helped GNRs publicity. There's no such thing as negative publicity, and Axl Rose knows best, as he has made a living of turning discontent into profit.

[KBear]

What can be gained from leaking a subpar version of your product into the market? Well, you get to create a negative impression of the product in the minds of potential customers, who will already have decided that your new product isn't interesting to them before it even goes on sale.

There are people who believe that everything that happens in releation to Axl Rose is part of some grand plan and that Axl is the master of how to manipulate the media. If this was true then he would have a much better public profile. At the moment, he's portrayed as a hermit and a weirdo and the demos have been getting slammed on radio stations for days. Hardly a good start to promoting the new album.

The idea that Axl wants to leak demos so that we'll know the songs when we see the band live is bizarre. If CD is released the day a world tour starts, then for most fans they will be listening to the album for weeks or months before GN'R does a gig anywhere near them. So really what you're saying is that he leaked the songs for the fans in the cities on the first couple of dates on the tour. Still think it's a realistic prospect?

You said a lot of what I was going to say. What concert dates are confirmed so far? I think it's all summer dates, not before, and the album is supposedly coming in March or April. So all fans will know the words when GN'R starts to play live. It's like busngabb said...if they are doing this so fans know the words at concerts then the album isn't coming out until late summer/earlyfall at the earliest.

I was thinking the same thing about leaking sub-par versions and having negative reaction...but overall I think leaking something before making an announcement can only build hype. Maybe they are aware of the risk in leaking sub-par versions. That's why these demos aren't really sub-par. They are pretty high quality considering they are demos. Just make damn sure that the finished version is better so that it's not a let down and it's hard to go wrong. Also, I'm sure they expect the demos to have most impact among hardcore fans. i.e. it's not going to be on MTV's high rotation list. So overall I would think they'd expect this risk to be small.

But no matter how much we analyze things, we still don't know if this was all planned or not.

Edited February 25, 2006 by KBear

[gavgnr]

MetaSouL, great theory and I agree that it is a possibility. I have read with interest the problems encountered at the start of the UYI tour. Others seem to suggest though that Axl prefers (or preferred) to drop an album part way through a tour.

[Charisteas]

I went to a show before UYI were released on the UYI tour. They sold out two nights in a 50,000 seat stadium. People didn't know what some of the new songs were, but no one cared. The crowd was crazy. It also didn't hurt sales for the albums at all.

[Negleyjj]

I went to a show before UYI were released on the UYI tour. They sold out two nights in a 50,000 seat stadium. People didn't know what some of the new songs were, but no one cared. The crowd was crazy. It also didn't hurt sales for the albums at all.

That was before the days pf P2P...

[Chief]

Axl or management or the band is not leaking these demos. In fact even if they were to do such a thing, which I think is very unlikely in the first place, it would be a mixed track, and probably not one that is on the final tracklisting. (recall Axl once said that there would be a "bonus" disc at the Leeds show I believe)

Whatever the reason its taking so long, we haven't heard any new music for a long time for a reason, they weren't ready to put it out. He wants the music to speak for itself, so I think they are aiming for maximum surprise when the album comes out.

Also, demos or incomplete songs give the wrong impression to fans, especially ones who don't follow the band as closely as we do and could potentially turn them off of the band. That is the LAST thing they need, especially with all the events that have happened in the last 4 years or so. I think GNR needs to strike big and strike strong when the ball gets rolling and leaks will just get in the way. I mean, I think they are still not quite done with some of the songs according to the recent Rolling Stone article. (Richard even came back to LA to record some stuff a few months ago)

Even for my band, I would HATE for anything to leak before it comes out. I have had to tell my friend a few times that we shouldn't play too much new stuff live until it is put out there for everyone on the album.

So, I basically think these leaks hurt the band in the long run and hopefully they stop soon because we have been waiting too long for even MORE stuff to get screwed up in relation to the band.

[madison]

Axl or management or the band is not leaking these demos. In fact even if they were to do such a thing, which I think is very unlikely in the first place, it would be a mixed track, and probably not one that is on the final tracklisting. (recall Axl once said that there would be a "bonus" disc at the Leeds show I believe)

Whatever the reason its taking so long, we haven't heard any new music for a long time for a reason, they weren't ready to put it out. He wants the music to speak for itself, so I think they are aiming for maximum surprise when the album comes out.

Also, demos or incomplete songs give the wrong impression to fans, especially ones who don't follow the band as closely as we do and could potentially turn them off of the band. That is the LAST thing they need, especially with all the events that have happened in the last 4 years or so. I think GNR needs to strike big and strike strong when the ball gets rolling and leaks will just get in the way. I mean, I think they are still not quite done with some of the songs according to the recent Rolling Stone article. (Richard even came back to LA to record some stuff a few months ago)

Even for my band, I would HATE for anything to leak before it comes out. I have had to tell my friend a few times that we shouldn't play too much new stuff live until it is put out there for everyone on the album.

So, I basically think these leaks hurt the band in the long run and hopefully they stop soon because we have been waiting too long for even MORE stuff to get screwed up in relation to the band.

Interesting post.

I agree and disagree though.

I agree that there is a risk that the unfinished demos could turn some music fans off of the music -- those who aren't familiar with GNR and think these tracks are the final product. But I think this risk is small - compared with the potential windfall the band could enjoy from the leaks.

I think leaking demos - rather than actual album cuts - helps create a buzz around the band - without giving away the album. People will still need to buy the album in order to hear the final mix. Yet, the leaks have created a great deal of hype and buzz around a band that hasn't cut an album in a decade. As long as Axl doesn't wait too long -- and strikes while the iron is hot - he can build on this momentum. If he waits too long though - and lets the buzz die down - then the benefits will be lost. jmo.

[wasted]

Marketing and sales is basically bullshit. Jobs for girls with massive tits. If you're in advertising and marketing, kill your self (I can see what ur trying to do Bill, the anti-marketing market, huge market!!! Huge!!!)

Quality will sell in the end. No one really respects crap that sells a lot. I think there is little marketing going on with good records. You might see a TV ad or a poster or some t shirts but there not exactly ground breaking brainstorming marketing ideas. The wheels must turn but the music has to rule or in ten years time will say oh, remember Chinese D - what a terrible record, what a half assed piece o shit record that was. You can market the shit out of my demos I did for my band on mt casio keyboard I got free with me cheerios but they still suck major hairy ass, Axl's demos, on the other hand, are like The Holy Grail of rock music...here's my marketing plan:

Buy this.

Ok.

[highvoltage]

I agree that there is a risk that the unfinished demos could turn some music fans off of the music -- those who aren't familiar with GNR and think these tracks are the final product. But I think this risk is small - compared with the potential windfall the band could enjoy from the leaks.

I actually think the risks here are a lot higher than you're giving them credit for. Demos really don't sound good to your average music listener - people have trouble envisioning what the final product may sound like.

You have to look at who the label wants to target for marketing. Do they want to target a new audience that's never listened to GN'R before, are they after the old fans from the 80's and 90's who bought AFD and UYI... or are they after both?

This is the way way I see it -- supposing this was an actual marketing strategy, it only caters to one potential audience -- those who have been previous fans of Guns N' Roses. They're the only people that are going to be interested in listening to these demos, and then there's always the chance that they'll be put off by "half baked" songs. We've already seen a ton of people on this forum that rejected the tracks and couldn't really understand that they were unfinished demos. They've pretty much been turned off the album by them.

You've got to think too -- chances are that anyone who'd even care about the demos are existing fans that would have already been interested in what Axl had to offer with the new album. What if listening to this stuff just convinces them that people were right when they said "Guns N' Roses are dead"?

Also, let's face it - dodgy quality demo tracks are hardly going to win Axl a new, younger audience - I've played them to a few younger friends and most of them hated the songs. However, I believe that this was only because they were unfinished demos. Thing is that if they go to listen to the album now, they'll have a preconcieved opinion about it and will probably end up hating that too.

Management needs to target people that have never been into Guns N' Roses before - they're the people that should be making up a large number of sales here if they want to make this album a real hit. This sort of "marketing strategy" certainly won't win the band any new fans.

[madison]

I agree that there is a risk that the unfinished demos could turn some music fans off of the music -- those who aren't familiar with GNR and think these tracks are the final product. But I think this risk is small - compared with the potential windfall the band could enjoy from the leaks.

I actually think the risks here are a lot higher than you're giving them credit for. Demos really don't sound good to your average music listener - people have trouble envisioning what the final product may sound like.

You have to look at who the label wants to target for marketing. Do they want to target a new audience that's never listened to GN'R before, are they after the old fans from the 80's and 90's who bought AFD and UYI... or are they after both?

This is the way way I see it -- supposing this was an actual marketing strategy, it only caters to one potential audience -- those who have been previous fans of Guns N' Roses. They're the only people that are going to be interested in listening to these demos, and then there's always the chance that they'll be put off by "half baked" songs. We've already seen a ton of people on this forum that rejected the tracks and couldn't really understand that they were unfinished demos. They've pretty much been turned off the album by them.

You've got to think too -- chances are that anyone who'd even care about the demos are existing fans that would have already been interested in what Axl had to offer with the new album. What if listening to this stuff just convinces them that people were right when they said "Guns N' Roses are dead"?

Also, let's face it - dodgy quality demo tracks are hardly going to win Axl a new, younger audience - I've played them to a few younger friends and most of them hated the songs. However, I believe that this was only because they were unfinished demos. Thing is that if they go to listen to the album now, they'll have a preconcieved opinion about it and will probably end up hating that too.

Management needs to target people that have never been into Guns N' Roses before - they're the people that should be making up a large number of sales here if they want to make this album a real hit. This sort of "marketing strategy" certainly won't win the band any new fans.

I respectfully disagree.

I've visited a few other band sites - where the tracks had shown up in their "other music" sections. And I've found a surprisingly large number of rock fans - who didn't like GNR before - liked these tracks. I've read a lot of positive comments.

Nobody can underestimate the power of the internet. If you want to create a buzz around a band or an album - the Net is the way to go. And a demo leak - though risky - can also be very smart. If these demos were crap, then I would agree with you. But they're not.

[highvoltage]

I respectfully disagree.

I've visited a few other band sites - where the tracks had shown up in their "other music" sections. And I've found a surprisingly large number of rock fans - who didn't like GNR before - liked these tracks. I've read a lot of positive comments.

I guess we've both had different experiences from it all - because outside the GN'R forums, what i've read has been generally negative and usually results in some sort of slinging match about how 'gay' and 'emo' Axl is.

Nobody can underestimate the power of the internet. If you want to create a buzz around a band or an album - the Net is the way to go.

On the power of the Internet, I agree with you -- there's no other medium that reaches more people of all classes. It's definately the way to go, publicity-wise.

If these demos were crap, then I would agree with you. But they're not.

You and I know that - but plenty of others seem to disagree, unfortunately.

[JennaSide]

I've heard a lot of possitive responses from people who weren't GNR fans. *shrug*

As with anything, there will be people that like it and people that don't. I think the people that would be turned off by these demos probably wouldn't like the finished product much better anyway.

[KBear]

I agree that there is a risk that the unfinished demos could turn some music fans off of the music -- those who aren't familiar with GNR and think these tracks are the final product. But I think this risk is small - compared with the potential windfall the band could enjoy from the leaks.

I actually think the risks here are a lot higher than you're giving them credit for. Demos really don't sound good to your average music listener - people have trouble envisioning what the final product may sound like.

You have to look at who the label wants to target for marketing. Do they want to target a new audience that's never listened to GN'R before, are they after the old fans from the 80's and 90's who bought AFD and UYI... or are they after both?

This is the way way I see it -- supposing this was an actual marketing strategy, it only caters to one potential audience -- those who have been previous fans of Guns N' Roses. They're the only people that are going to be interested in listening to these demos, and then there's always the chance that they'll be put off by "half baked" songs. We've already seen a ton of people on this forum that rejected the tracks and couldn't really understand that they were unfinished demos. They've pretty much been turned off the album by them.

You've got to think too -- chances are that anyone who'd even care about the demos are existing fans that would have already been interested in what Axl had to offer with the new album. What if listening to this stuff just convinces them that people were right when they said "Guns N' Roses are dead"?

Also, let's face it - dodgy quality demo tracks are hardly going to win Axl a new, younger audience - I've played them to a few younger friends and most of them hated the songs. However, I believe that this was only because they were unfinished demos. Thing is that if they go to listen to the album now, they'll have a preconcieved opinion about it and will probably end up hating that too.

Management needs to target people that have never been into Guns N' Roses before - they're the people that should be making up a large number of sales here if they want to make this album a real hit. This sort of "marketing strategy" certainly won't win the band any new fans.

I respectfully disagree.

I've visited a few other band sites - where the tracks had shown up in their "other music" sections. And I've found a surprisingly large number of rock fans - who didn't like GNR before - liked these tracks. I've read a lot of positive comments.

Nobody can underestimate the power of the internet. If you want to create a buzz around a band or an album - the Net is the way to go. And a demo leak - though risky - can also be very smart. If these demos were crap, then I would agree with you. But they're not.

I've got a couple of thoughts on this topic. Yes, leaking demos (if this actually was a planned event) is risky for the reasons HV cited. But I think madison is right. Make the demos very good quality and that risk is largely mitigated. I haven't yet listened to anything other than IRS, but from that and what people are saying about the demos...the quality is very good. I think that was no accident. Whether people like the actual songs or not is another matter entirely. And we need to keep in mind that a lot of people will rag on Axl no matter what. I can't take those people seriously.

But I agree with HV in that these leaks (whether planned or not) were largely intended for the hardcore fans. Mainstream music fans will not hear these tracks unless they put in the effort to find them online, or if they are in one of the select markets where a radio station plays the song and they actually are lucky enough to catch it. What percentage of the potential market for this album has heard a song so far and actually knew what it was they had just heard? I bet it's a miniscule amount. My theory is that the leaks were intended to prepare the hardcore GN'R fans and the media for an impending release, and to create the foundation for the marketing push that we will see in the coming months. To that end it has succeeded immensely. You can't cater to the casual fan before you have the hardcore fan and the media already in your back pocket.

Edited February 26, 2006 by KBear