Axl-The Catcher in the Rye

[Zint]

I'm not sure if the Stones are extending their adolecence because they still play rock and roll.

Rock and roll,as a genre,is not THAT old really,the handbook (per say) is still being written.

The Stones happen to be one of the few acceptions,as a band,that have stuck around long enough to prove it's not just for 20 year old rebels.

Keith Richards will jam,even if it's in a club...as long as he is physically able to.The reason is,music is a part of his being,it's ingrained in his soul,it's who he is...he HAS to do it (because he LOVES to do it).It defines his existence.

If rock and roll is inherently intended for the young,I guess AXL and shitload of other musicians (and fans) had best be calling it a day.

[Painkiller545]

Who here has read the Catcher in the Rye? I can see where Axl relates to that. I see alot of it in his lyrics.

I reread it and see some very distinct themes and symbols in that book.

First of all the deep resistance by the protagonist to move into a larger reality and a self inflicted sense of aloneness. A complete inability to function at a sustained adult level. Wanting to act and feel and be an adult but not sure how to function completely at that level. embracing dysfunction and shutdown rather than living up to potential. A deep need to love and be loved but being completly confused by the notion. Antagonized by those who have his interest at heart and dismissed through thier human flaws.......Thats Holdens gig. The whole bizarre way that Holden both desires sex but is frightened by it at the same time. His reality is the only reality even though hes aware that his reality is fucked up he still refuses tomove beyond it. ........

In the book Holden Caulfield has a distinct dream job and that is to catch all of the innocent children falling off a cliff-- He mistakes the song coming through the Rye for "Catcher in the Rye" He desires to live in a place where nothing ever changes, nothing ever moves and everything stays the same.

Look at many of Axls lyrics. What are they about? Look at the drowning scenes in Estranged and Since I don't have you . The grave scene in Dont Cry.

Just a thought. I have been listening to Catcher in the Rye. Makes more sense to me now.

The red hunting hat?= Thats Holdens "people shooting hat"

I've read the book, but never heard the song. So i cant say much about the song. But the book was fucking amazing! I act alot like Holden acctually. Kinda freaky, but cool in a way.

TW@

[Whee1010]

Now that I've read the lyrics, the song seems to predominately revolve around the subject of Lennon's killer, but I could see some places where Axl may have got his inspiration from the actual novel...

[Zeppelin]

The song is just about partying and Axl stole the title cuz he's fukkin lazy. I have sources but if I say who they will dry up so don't ask noobs.

[ssiscool]

The song is just about partying and Axl stole the title cuz he's fukkin lazy. I have sources but if I say who they will dry up so don't ask noobs.

If you say so mate. if you say so

[SunshineSlayer]

I dont know what you all are talking about.

JohnUlmer is right.

the song is about Mark Chapman, who was obsessed by the book catcher in the Rye. he had a copy when he killed Lennon and after shooting him he just sat down and began reading.

the song is about Chapman and his deamons.

I think it is a little of both. It's about both Catcher in the Rye and Chapman. I mean just by the sheer fact that it is about Chapman means that it in some ways is about the book. I've just reread the book and I definitely see connections.

I have seen many attempts. This is the best one BY FAR.

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Cat...8257129000FC21C

I actually think that is one of the worst attempts.

To all those asking about a movie version: Geeze, it's not like the book is long or hard to find.

Edited April 27, 2006 by SunshineSlayer

[eschman]

and no salinger i think wont let ppl make movies out of his books

Wow. That guy must be like an idiot. Do you know how much money he could make if it was a popular movie? Plus he'd be hanging with movie stars. Axl could contribute a song for the soundtrack.

[browser]

and no salinger i think wont let ppl make movies out of his books

Wow. That guy must be like an idiot. Do you know how much money he could make if it was a popular movie? Plus he'd be hanging with movie stars. Axl could contribute a song for the soundtrack.

I don't think J.D. Salinger is interested in money.

He's been in solitude for about sixty years. He still writes but won't allow anyone to read or publish his work.

Yea, right. Who would do that? This town's only big enough for one great artist to pull shit like that. Sorry Mr. Salinger, but you are NO W. Axl Rose.

I'll tell that punk to his face.

And this goes for all you punks in the literary elite who want start shit by printing nothing. That means you, J.D. Salinger...

just what you said now, how many fuckn kids don't you think say that about AXL???

or to ppl who REALLY love Salingers work?

[wasted]

Well if u look directly at the lyrics there's only one line that referes to the book.

OOh the catcher in the rye again

You just can't seem to get away from him

This might be difficult to explain without offending people. But this song might have some parallels with Axl's sense of connection to Charles Manson. As someone victimized by soceity.

In many ways Chapman had some good points to make about Lennon's phoneiness which is a theme in the book. Chapman took Lennon's message of Peace and Love literally and basically hated Lennon when he found out about things in his personal life. Whereas some people who go "Duh? Lennon is just another piss head like every else" Chapman was devastated by Lennon's ordinariness. His heroin use and songs like happiness is a warm gun seemed to be antithesis of Peace and Love message.

I think Chapman falls into the group of people who read the book as an attack on fake people and a general take on the world which is adolescent. To him the book was supporting his beliefs. And in turn was some sort of back up to his theory that Lennon must die. And in turn that he Chapman should be the leader of the Peace and Love movement?

Axl might be describing what Chapman is thinking. He hates the old people - cos they are pigs, establishment. But he also hates the young people who are fakes and phoneys who love a fake like Lennon.

Axl might have seen this in his own situation. Like hates establishment, then came to hate the drug crowd who said they were some sort of alternative. This mirrors Chapman's reasoning. So he found him self alone again.

And what saves you from all this?

THE CATCHER THE RYE.

The only thing pure in this scenario is the Catcher who saves children from falling off cliffs.

This is as close as I've got to the meaning of CITR.

[Whee1010]

Well if u look directly at the lyrics there's only one line that referes to the book.

OOh the catcher in the rye again

You just can't seem to get away from him

This might be difficult to explain without offending people. But this song might have some parallels with Axl's sense of connection to Charles Manson. As someone victimized by soceity.

In many ways Chapman had some good points to make about Lennon's phoneiness which is a theme in the book. Chapman took Lennon's message of Peace and Love literally and basically hated Lennon when he found out about things in his personal life. Whereas some people who go "Duh? Lennon is just another piss head like every else" Chapman was devastated by Lennon's ordinariness. His heroin use and songs like happiness is a warm gun seemed to be antithesis of Peace and Love message.

I think Chapman falls into the group of people who read the book as an attack on fake people and a general take on the world which is adolescent. To him the book was supporting his beliefs. And in turn was some sort of back up to his theory that Lennon must die. And in turn that he Chapman should be the leader of the Peace and Love movement?

Axl might be describing what Chapman is thinking. He hates the old people - cos they are pigs, establishment. But he also hates the young people who are fakes and phoneys who love a fake like Lennon.

Axl might have seen this in his own situation. Like hates establishment, then came to hate the drug crowd who said they were some sort of alternative. This mirrors Chapman's reasoning. So he found him self alone again.

And what saves you from all this?

THE CATCHER THE RYE.

The only thing pure in this scenario is the Catcher who saves children from falling off cliffs.

This is as close as I've got to the meaning of CITR.

That was a very good analysis, very interesting

[rockerman]

Interesting take on Chapman.

Chapman said one of the reasons he killed Lennon was because he felt like he was a "nobody" By attaching himself to the legacy of John Lennon he somehow validated his miserable experience. The obsession with Catcher in the Rye probably only fueled his own frustration. But to a certain degree there is celebrity in notoriety. John F. Kennedy...Lee Harvey Oswald, MArtin Luther King.... James Earl Ray......attached to the history of the legend is the killers name. Sick.

That novel certainly is'nt about winning over friends and family by being a upstanding citizen.

The lyrics themselves are kind of vague. If you know the story of the Cather in the Rye you can get a drift for the attitude in the song. But if you know the story of Lennons murder you can see that also.

[gnr-dave]

The song is about chapman

[wasted]

It's about Chapman and then in turn about Axl. So does Axl feel like Chapman who killed Lennon. Axl feels like Chapman cos he killed a persona of himself that was like Lennon?

I'm just interested why Axl picked CITR to read reference. Why not In Cold Blood by Capote.

For Axl the chromology must go Lennon, Chapman, Salinger. What's weird is that there is little about Lennon in the song (I think?). There's the Chorus and then the verses are about Chapman (I think?)

[wasted]

I read somewhere that the book was banned at first cos of mention of young suicide. Oliver Stone claims that he was the first to write about it but his first novel was rejected before he went to Vietnam. Child's Night Dreams. To be honest that makes me laff. I'm not sure about Olly.

And just to throw everything out of wack, there is a theory that the FBI used CITR to hypnotize Chapman into killing Lennon because he was in talks with the communist party (this is true it's in every Lennon book, even his driver new about this). Lennon was going to become a figurehead for the communist party. Chapman was really an assasin trained by the CIA and not really crazy at all. Chapman was an agent. There is an FBI file you can read on the net somewhere.