How good is the guitar work in the New GnR Songs? An Offical Analysis

[SylvesterStallone]

Here we go, at the risk of beating a dead horse or having this topic moved to dust n bones, let me preface this by saying it's not a comparison between old and new.

How good is the guitar riffage and playing in the new songs and are they memorable? Do they add life to the songs or are they by the numbers and blend into the song rather than standing out and enhancing it?

I'd like the opinions of ACTUAL guitar players...

[Coma.]

Why only guitar players?

I feel so inadequate

[steveysham]

if you need a critic to tell you if you like somthing or not then how do you make decision in your life? an expert can tell you how what they did not whether you like it or not

[SylvesterStallone]

Well it cuts out all the hearsay fanboy bullshit like "The guitar work is amazing...it sounds great to me!!11" "Better has a better riff than SCOM!"...you know stuff like that. It's one thing to like something, and entirely another to write hyperbolic shit. The guitar players will get straight to the point and tell it like it is.

[SlashRock]

Well neither old material or the new material are exactly hard to play. As a guitarist I'd have to say the guitarwork in the old songs is more complicated than the new songs-but that's not really saying much. Whereas the old material is more riff based, most of the new material is not. They're both equally as catchy in my opinion, especially the ending solo bit on 'TWAT.' The new songs guitarwork is alot more lightweight than on the old songs. I also found that the guitarwork on the new songs is far more repetive than the guitarwork on the old songs. The guitarwork is more varied in the old songs than the new songs as they seem a little too obsessed with long bends and shred.

[Coma.]

Yeah...I getcha

[artfromtex]

well, let's see

Madagascar - love the song, not really guitar driven.

The Blues - the lead lines are very memorable. when you sing the song in your head, you can hum the guitar parts. good job. now, in '02, the guitar "tone" sounded like shit, but i'll wait till i hear the studio version before i bash that.

I.R.S. - nothing mindblowing, but the riff is really good and the way Axl plays off of it with the lyrical structure is really cool.

Better - love that synchopated rhthym, BH's parts are fucking great (hope they stay). that fucking riff in the middle is bad ass.

TWAT - love it in the verses when the guitar mirrors the melody line. the outro solo has alot of cool parts, but it makes these abrupt changes from technique "A" to technique "B". i think if they do that it needs to be 2 guitarists switching off with 2 distinct guitar tones, or else it seems too choppy and spliced together in the studio. but overall, it's jammin', melodic stuff. i like it.

Catcher - Brian May, dude.....

Edited September 5, 2006 by artfromtex

[bass71player]

Here we go, at the risk of beating a dead horse or having this topic moved to dust n bones, let me preface this by saying it's not a comparison between old and new.

How good is the guitar riffage and playing in the new songs and are they memorable? Do they add life to the songs or are they by the numbers and blend into the song rather than standing out and enhancing it?

I'd like the opinions of ACTUAL guitar players...

i consider myself a bass player, but i sell guitars for a living so i play quite a bit and know, see many many great players. i think the playing is awesome on the leaks. i agree completely with artfromtex so instead of doing a song by song here's a player by player perspective

buckethead gets slammed for being a shredder. to those people i say - check out michael angelo battio. that guy has zero emotion and even kind of admits to it. buckethead has the weird personality-less off stage persona, but his playing is phenomenal, different and you can tell he really loves all of his songs. i think that's a little more apparent in his live show.

i also really dig finck's playing. i love the guitar parts in better - his NIN influence is very well showcased in the main riff, but he's got some funk in him in the verse part. the syncopated pattern is really simple, but very effective. and the second solo fits the song perfectly (though i hope his tone is a little more refined on CD - for the solo i mean)

i think fortus brings to the table a lot more than people give him credit for. although i can't immediatly pick out what he's doing on the recorded tracks... live he was awesome. his solos were real bluesy and cool, and he was all over the place running around. i think he and axl have a really strong bond (not unlike axl and izzy - i just know i'm gonna get flamed for that) and i think that will make itself more apparent as time goes on.

i love ron thal, and i think his contribution has yet to be seen. live he is/was amazing and can play with anyone... and i mean anyone. check out some of his cameo appearances (my favorite is his solo in 'speak whan spoken to' by freak kitchen)

on a whole i think the guitar parts are a little less in your face than, say, AFD era. but they compliment the songs well and hold up on their own quite well.

Edited September 5, 2006 by bass71player

[SylvesterStallone]

Well neither old material or the new material are exactly hard to play. As a guitarist I'd have to say the guitarwork in the old songs is more complicated than the new songs-but that's not really saying much. Whereas the old material is more riff based, most of the new material is not. They're both equally as catchy in my opinion, especially the ending solo bit on 'TWAT.' The new songs guitarwork is alot more lightweight than on the old songs. I also found that the guitarwork on the new songs is far more repetive than the guitarwork on the old songs. The guitarwork is more varied in the old songs than the new songs as they seem a little too obsessed with long bends and shred.

Coma, Locomotive, Breakdown?

I don't play guitar but I get a very sterile and processed feel from the riffs...almost like "computer rock"....

[artfromtex]

I don't play guitar but I get a very sterile and processed feel from the riffs...almost like "computer rock"

the main overall difference in the riffage is this: the old guns stuff was meant to be played with 2 guitarist a bass player and a drummer. the old stuff stands out. you could pick up a guitar start jammin those songs and it sounds cool. and it sounds like the song.

the new stuff is kept alot more simple so that when the layering of multiple guitars, keyboards, strings, vocals, drum loops, f/x, etc, are added, it doesn't sound like a train wreck. the riffs don't really stand out on their own, but they do lay a very good foundation and are the rock that the new GNR sound is built on. but, if you picked up a guitar and started playing the new riffs to the new songs it might take a minute to go, "oh yeah, that's that new GNR tune."

Edited September 5, 2006 by artfromtex

[bass71player]

I don't play guitar but I get a very sterile and processed feel from the riffs...almost like "computer rock"

the main overall difference in the riffage is this: the old guns stuff was meant to be played with 2 guitarist a bass player and a drummer. the old stuff stands out. you could pick up a guitar start jammin those songs and it sounds cool. and it sounds like the song.

the new stuff is kept alot more simple so that when the layering of multiple guitars, keyboards, strings, vocals, drum loops, f/x, etc, are added, it doesn't sound like a train wreck. the riffs don't really stand out on their own, but they do lay a very good foundation and are the rock that the new GNR sound is built on. but, if you picked up a guitar and started playing the new riffs to the new songs it might take a minute to go, "oh yeah, that's that new GNR tune."

that's a great observation, man - good call

[moreblack]

In addition, I think that a lot of the new material wasn't written on guitar originally, so the guitars just add spice to the meal, but aren't the "meat" in the sandwich necessarily.

[GNR'R]

I disagree with people who say Old GN'R stuff is harder. Bucket's solo parts ain't exactly a walk in the park...

If we're talking about riffs then yes I agree.

[moreblack]

I disagree with people who say Old GN'R stuff is harder. Bucket's solo parts ain't exactly a walk in the park...

If we're talking about riffs then yes I agree.

Yeah, I think it was meant about the riffs, they were just heavier.

In terms of hardness to play, yeah Bucket's sweeps and whatnot on Better are hard to match. Except by Bumble.

[sweetness]

Better and IRS have very simple rythm guitar riffs, theyre just a combination of power chords. The solos for those songs are different.

On the first IRS leak we got in April Buckethead ripped a shred solo right out of hell, its not my style, but its undenyalibly(sp?) a great guitar solo. Then on the second leak we got in March or something, (the cleaned up, slowed down version) the Buckethead guitar solo was replaced by a slower melodic solo by Finck. I like it, but its nothing great.

I hate the intro riff to Better, some might think its catchy but I find it very anoying. But the guitar solos arent bad, Buckethead and Finck do a very nice job on this song when it comes to the solos. But the rythms arent very good, the main riff is catchy but it gets very boring for some reason, around the part towards the end where Axl starts going "ahhhhhhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhhhhh ahhhhhhh...." specificaly, but its a pretty basic riff.

There Was A Time doesnt really have any rythm guitar, or any that is memorable for hat matter. But the licks that are played when Axl starts singing are very cool and the guitar solos are the best I have heard in awhile when it comes to modern music. Very well written by Bucket and Finck, but Bucket takes the cake on this song. You can tell that his solo was off the top of his head by the way it wanders, but its in a good way.

Catcher in the Rye is way to layerd and confusing, there is no memorable guitar work on that song, despite it featuring Brain May, but if you listen to his solo it is pretty good. I hope the album version is more stripped down, Dizzy and Chris really get in the way on that song.

Overall, in comparison to the guitar work done by many other bands and not just Guns N' Roses, I'd say the guitar work is pretty middle of the road. The solos are good, but the only memorable one comes from There Was A Time. The rythms and riffs are pretty lame, even if they are catchy. It doesnt compare to some of the other stuff out there, but maybe it doesnt have to.

[zepsun]

I've been guitar player for 14 years, specializing in GNR, but a broad spectrum of influences.

If you were to ask me this question in 2002, I would say terrible as far as performance is concerned. Now...

I would say performance has considerably improved. I still favor the old band because of their chemistry and ability to jam anything as intros and outros to songs....like women bleed, and mother etc..

as far as creativity and composition, I would say it's pretty good, but I still have to wait forhe album to be sure. so far what sticks out, - the heavy bridge riff in Better and the end of the solo in The Blues.

Come to think about it...if it was the old GNR..i would not be able to nail down something that sticks out in my head that specifically, beacause in every single bar of slash's soloing, i'm constantly intrigued by what he's doing.

[sweetness]

Come to think about it...if it was the old GNR..i would not be able to nail down something that sticks out in my head that specifically, beacause in every single bar of slash's soloing, i'm constantly intrigued by what he's doing.

So true, hes constantly doing something great in his solos. B)

[M_Riot]

I'm not a massive expert on playing, although I can play and I work very closely to the guitar industry and meet a lot of guitarist and hear many guitars/guitar music.

I think that Richard Fortus's Rhythm playing is some of the most solid (live) that I have heard in any band. I hope that the album will showcase his talent more, because it is very hard for an untrained ear to appreciate what a Rhythm guitarist brings to the table.

Finck......

I think the main problem with Finck is that we haven't quite heard what he can do yet, and again the album will showcase that better. I think he playing on 'Better' is great, and I was pleasantly surprised at his tone and style on the final solo on Better and some of the stuff on The Blues - it is straight out of the textbook blues rock textbook and could easily be mistaken for Slash (on the final Better solo in particular) and I think he delivers it with utter conviction.

Bumblefoot is without doubt a great player and he does what he need to do well. What is unfortunate is that when you see/hear the boots from the live shows, it is very hard to pick out what he is doing (even live it was hard if you don't know about guitars) during the rhythm sections, but his intricate work added a lot to the songs.

Overall I think they are a good bunch of guitarists, and I am excited about hearing the album.

[bax]

I wouldn't say I'm an expert because I don't think many players are, but I have been playing and writing songs for 18 years. To put it simply, the guitar work in the new songs is very hard to judge because there is such a difference between the studio and live playing. To be honest, I think the guitar parts on the demos have been digitally edited with pro-tools to the max. Bumble and Richard have no problem playing the stuff live, although Ron has altered the leads from Bucket's. Robin wrote good solos for The Blues and TWAT, but he has trouble pulling off a lot of the stuff live. Listen to any of the live stuff on old or new songs live and you will clearly see that his playing is sloppy at times. He has a great feel for playing, but technically he is lacking. This may be due to a number of factors, particularly playing in front of thousands of people. The guitar work in NIN was very simple to play, even for a beginner, and I don't think he is used to playing more demanding material.

The songs themselves are not difficult to play riff-wise, but Bucket's solos are very difficult-very few players could pull off his leads. Like a lot of people have been saying in this thread, the songs are not as guitar-oriented as the old stuff, and the parts are not nearly as creative. Slash and Izzy had an almost telepathic way of interlocking complimentary parts, and you just don't find that in the new songs.

Hopefully this answers your question.

[Axls_Disillusion]

Come to think about it...if it was the old GNR..i would not be able to nail down something that sticks out in my head that specifically, beacause in every single bar of slash's soloing, i'm constantly intrigued by what he's doing.

So true, hes constantly doing something great in his solos. B)

and that has what to do with this topic?

ON TOPIC, i think the guitars on all the new tracks are brilliant.

[lawrence]

[quadlaser]

the new riffs are lame and uninspiring (riffs aren't the same as lead guitar, mind you). we only have 3 guitar based tracks so far, and CD and IRS are almost the same exact riff - ascending power chords that skip a step (the next note) about half of the time. i don't even want to get started on how cliche "better" is. that shit sounds exactly like songs already done by tonic, stabbing westward, green day, 7 mary 3, new found glory an some other mediocre bands.

as far as lead goes - robin is just terrible, some of the solos he writes are cool (the better end solo, the blues solo) but nothing special, shame he can't play them live. but then again, if i had years and years of time to write these solos, i would have done a better job- and so would've most anyone else that has been playing for over 5 years.

bucket's work so far has kinda sucked too, it seems like aside from the twat solo (which is a masterpiece), he didn't put any time into figuring out what to play. ironically, this might actually be the case! the little sweeps in "better" are kind of cool- but those sweeping sextuplets are straight out of the first day of sweeping 101. it's considered by most as a sweeping "exercise" since it's just sweeping the basics of the major scale. luckily, ron has made that part cooler from day one.

oh, and i've been playing for over a dozen years and am a guitar teacher. often playing for over 3 hours a day.

i hate to show off, and i know it's already in the musicians forum, and i know moreblack is gonna blast me for being an attention whore. but i am actually quite good at guitar, here's me improvising on youtube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=dYLgZHkGPxg

[sweetness]

Come to think about it...if it was the old GNR..i would not be able to nail down something that sticks out in my head that specifically, beacause in every single bar of slash's soloing, i'm constantly intrigued by what he's doing.

So true, hes constantly doing something great in his solos. B)

and that has what to do with this topic?

ON TOPIC, i think the guitars on all the new tracks are brilliant.

I knew you would reply to me like that, and I almost didnt reply to him. But then I thought about how much bullshit that is so I said the hell with that and replied. Sorry

Read my other post on the bottom of the 1st page, there is zero Slash in that

[gunsguy]

A person once said to me about the new tracks:

Great vocals/Lazy music

I agree most of the time

Gunsguy

[lawrence]

as far as lead goes - robin is just terrible, some of the solos he writes are cool (the better end solo, the blues solo) but nothing special, shame he can't play them live. but then again, if i had years and years of time to write these solos, i would have done a better job- and so would've most anyone else that has been playing for over 5 years.