Led Zeppelin (antics & debauchery)

[Guest Len B'stard]

I'm not the biggest fan of Led Zeppelin but I do like a few of their songs and i think maybe am on the verge of looking at all their other stuff again and seeing what they're about and all that and, just offhand i was googling and FUCK ME!!! Did they really get up to some of the stuff that they're said to've? I think i remember reading somewhere, i think Slashs autobio', that The Hammer of Thor or something? Anyway, some book about Zep is sort of like No One Here Gets Out Alive (book on Jim Morrison, i love The Doors) in that it's largely falsified in places but yeah, i mean, did some of that stuff REALLY go on?

I suppose it's like the Moonie myths and all these other artists and what have you and i don't expect anybody on an internet forum is personal friends with Zep to be able to tell me if any of it's true but i mean there are like, in every artists case, stories that are widely accepted to be true or true to a point and stories that are considered a load of bollocks.

So which is which? Are there any that any forum Zep fans can fill me in on please?

And also, some of them seem like, really off key. Like, proper out of order, nasty stuff. I was reading an interview with that bird, the plaster caster one, the one who did all the rockstar nobs and she was talking about her expierience with Robert Plant in that regard and wouldn't like, relay the story, like they done something horrific to her. I googled around and i discovered that, apparently, someone weed on her. Things like Bonzo being physically restrained from raping some bird on an airplane and...i dunno, loads of other stuff really, it's almost like certain parties are afraid to talk about some of it.

Now, as a fan, or an observer at least, of GG Allin and a bona fide fan of Iggy Pop and Stiv Bators and Keith Moon i consider myself like, not in a position to like...moralise and i wouldn't, i'm just interested, they (Zep') sound like a bunch of nutters. I mean i've read stories about like...rape and all sorts. Now as much of a dodgy bastard as say, Iggy or Moonie were, i don't think they'd do something like rape some poor girl. I always thought there was something comedic and circusey and fun about Moonie type debauchery.

So like, yeah, what went on? Any cool tales to tell? And what on earth is all this about a shark and putting it in a womans cooch, how can you put a shark in someone?!?!?! Unless it was tinned shark? Does John West do shark? But yeah, any stories would be most welcome. My renewed interest in Zep' was kinda spurred on by my renewed interested in playing the guitar and, upon revision, you can't really slag off Page and Pages work in that fuckin band. That little breakdown bit in Whole Lotta Love where Roberts going off on one, followed by Jimmy fucking laying into his guitar is probably of one the most pleasing expieriences my ear has ever had.

But anyway, yeah, stories please! I might just go out and buy that Hammer of Thor or Hammer of Gods or whatevers its called book just for entertainment value, even if parts of it is a load of bollocks.

Edited July 2, 2011 by sugaraylen

[Nobodys_Fault]

So like, yeah, what went on? Any cool tales to tell? And what on earth is all this about a shark and putting it in a womans cooch, how can you put a shark in someone?!?!?!

The story was that it was pieces of shark not a live great white or anything like that. But according to Rich Cole it was a red snapper and not a shark at all.

Shark Episode

[Guest Len B'stard]

Fuck me! Dodgy fuckers man!! Is there a documentary on Zep' yet, a good one, y'know, like The Beatles have the anthology, Pistols have Filth and the Fury, The Who have Amazing Journey, like a proper docu?

[dalsh327]

John Paul Jones is the only one who would be able to write THE book on Led Zeppelin and not care about what Plant and Page think, but just from the radio interviews I've heard him do, is pretty open about his life, but I think he kept his distance from the road crew as much as he could. He did a lot of session work, was in one of the biggest bands in the world, and worked with Diamanda, toured with her, produced REM at their finest hour,so there's definitely a book there. Plus working with Dave Grohl and hitting the road with the Vultures.

Plant was on Jimmy Fallon and he plays the amnesia game, but he travels a lot and someone might get him to write a travel book of some sort. That was one of the coolest things about "Unleded", was the footage of singing and playing in fields and markets. Just a little too guarded though. But I just think there's some things he doesn't want to get into and break down on camera about. But you can tell he knows damn well what was going on at the time. I'm sure his bandmates have prob. heard a lot of great stories, and I'm sure his oldest kids don't want to hear anything about what he did on the road.

Jimmy Page revealed some cool stuff about his childhood in "It Might Get Loud" and wrote an extremely limited edition book that's mostly a coffeetable book. I don't think we're getting much more out of him than he's put out there. Maybe a "Classic Albums" on the making of Led Zep IV. The best part was going through the chateau explaining how they recorded it and sitting outside playing "Battle of Evermore" for a minute.

Richard Cole wrote two books, and admitted "Hammer of the Gods" was mostly written to cash in on them for drug money, and said he was the one who instigated a lot of the antics. John Bonham by all accounts was a Jeckyl and Hyde when he drank a lot. You're talking about young guys, no different than GNR, Oasis, NIN, Marilyn Manson or even the pop groups who have women throwing themselves at them, wanting something from them. Peter Grant kind of took care of things for them and dealt with the hardcore groupies, bootleggers, etc, but he could only do so much, esp. once Page got into heroin and Bonham got really out of control with the drinking. Plant didn't even want to tour with Led Zep in the later years after his kid died.

Cameron Crowe based "Almost Famous" partly on his observations of Led Zep on the road but fictionalized it and mixed in to a few other bands he interviewed.

Search out the bootlegs on the various blogspots because there's a lot of soundboards. There's a show or two that I can't find, but the 1969-1972 era shows are outstanding. The Newport festival is one I always wanted to hear, even though it's an audience tape, it's a hungry band with something to prove in a short timeframe, and there's a few festival shows worth checking out. Wolfgang's Vault had put up some of the 1969 Fillmore shows but I guess Page made them take it down, but those shows are easy to find. What blows my mind about them is how they could play a 20 minute song and be that in tune with each other the entire time. Page got sloppy on guitar here and there, but even after watching Knebworth, you can tell he pulled it together for the 1980 tour. It was a bare bones show and tightened the songs up.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were Jimmy's and they're just tapes he doesn't feel he can do much with or wants to sell. For someone who's had a lot of control over the Led Zep archives, he's been very cool about not shutting down sites.

Plant and Page want to keep the mystique and mystery around Led Zep, for the same reasons Tool does.

Geezer Butler and Tony Iommi knew Plant and Bonham way before Led Zep. Rod Stewart remembers seeing him from the stage studying him, looking a lot like him. I mean, in 65-69, most of the bands that made it big in the 70s were in the audience, so they all knew each other, or knew of each other and the regions they came from.

You might not love Led Zep because they're a classic rock staple and played out on radio, but going by the body of work, it is a very interesting band that had unbelievable talent. Jeff Beck and Rod Stewart were the rivals, but Beck did plenty to sabotage his own band that they never played Woodstock, and was upset at Page for "You Shook Me", "Train Kept A Rollin" and "Beck's Bolero" and the other Yardbirds songs incorporated into the Led Zep show. Beck and Rod didn't even last 2 years...way more volatile than GNR. People might say Page stole from his friends and influences, but I think over time they've been mentioned so much that people just went to buy their records, or were just sued and given credit.

[GivenToFly]

On the one hand, when you've got pretty much the whole world at your feet, and you can do anything you want and have done everything that's conceivable to a normal person, and PLUS you're on the road all the time, I guess you do get pretty bored.

On the other hand these things tend to get really exaggerated. You even see it today, when everyone has mobile phone cameras and there's hard proof of everything that happens and there's twitter and everything can be confirmed or denied immediately and things still get really distorted. What about then, when all this was hearsay and urban legends?

I read somewhere that the whole thing with that shark was one of the guys (Jimmy?) rubbing a fish on a girl's vagina (why? how would I know, I'm not a drug- and alcohol-sodden rockstar on the road for 2 years). From that it gets to a girl being fucked with a shark! WTF! That defies all reason! Who knows, someone could've made a joke ("hey, I bet *name of a girl known as a huge slut* could do that with a shark!") and from there it got to the big urban legend.

@Dalsh: I thought Almost Famous was based on Crowe's own experience withe the Allman Brothers Band?

[dalsh327]

On the one hand, when you've got pretty much the whole world at your feet, and you can do anything you want and have done everything that's conceivable to a normal person, and PLUS you're on the road all the time, I guess you do get pretty bored.

On the other hand these things tend to get really exaggerated. You even see it today, when everyone has mobile phone cameras and there's hard proof of everything that happens and there's twitter and everything can be confirmed or denied immediately and things still get really distorted. What about then, when all this was hearsay and urban legends?

I read somewhere that the whole thing with that shark was one of the guys (Jimmy?) rubbing a fish on a girl's vagina (why? how would I know, I'm not a drug- and alcohol-sodden rockstar on the road for 2 years). From that it gets to a girl being fucked with a shark! WTF! That defies all reason! Who knows, someone could've made a joke ("hey, I bet *name of a girl known as a huge slut* could do that with a shark!") and from there it got to the big urban legend.

@Dalsh: I thought Almost Famous was based on Crowe's own experience withe the Allman Brothers Band?

He said it was a composite, and you're right that the Allmans were one of those bands.

In the book, Cole pretty much said Plant, Page, and Jones weren't really part of the antics going on. A lot of these girls were wowed by British dudes because it was exotic to them, and most of the musicians were taken aback at how bold they were when it came to sex.

The shark incident was actually more Carmine Appice's doing, and he probably has the footage.

[moreblack]

Like Page said, "there's no smoke without fire". But he says he's "calmed down quite a lot" since those days...

[Guest Len B'stard]

Been listening to the first album. Fuckin hell, it's pretty good y'know. Dazed and Confused is one of the best songs i've ever heard.

[moreblack]

That one was done pretty quickly, you can definitely feel the urgency

[Guest Len B'stard]

That one was done pretty quickly, you can definitely feel the urgency

Really? Dazed and Confused sounds like it must've taken fuckin ages, it's so like...layered and intricate sounding. That bit during the guitar bit when Bonzo does those fuckin rolls across the kit sound sublime, they add SOOO much to the fuckin song and they don't sound like they'd be that easy to do in the place in the sound where they appear, almost feel like they're done in odd time or something. Fuckin brilliant tho!! And Communication Breakdown!! And Good Times Bad Times. It's Page that cranks my cock the most though, the bastard comes up with some fuckin riffs eh? Like that that goes, Livin' Lovin' She's just a woman and that little guitar bit that comes after, sounds proper slick!

Why didn't someone tell me about this band before?

[moreblack]

we tried, you tore that thread to pieces!!

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

Sugs getting back into Zep?

Well, by god...

[WhazUp]

That one was done pretty quickly, you can definitely feel the urgency

Really? Dazed and Confused sounds like it must've taken fuckin ages, it's so like...layered and intricate sounding. That bit during the guitar bit when Bonzo does those fuckin rolls across the kit sound sublime, they add SOOO much to the fuckin song and they don't sound like they'd be that easy to do in the place in the sound where they appear, almost feel like they're done in odd time or something. Fuckin brilliant tho!! And Communication Breakdown!! And Good Times Bad Times. It's Page that cranks my cock the most though, the bastard comes up with some fuckin riffs eh? Like that that goes, Livin' Lovin' She's just a woman and that little guitar bit that comes after, sounds proper slick!

Why didn't someone tell me about this band before?

You will love Led Zeppelin II. That album grooves like crazy man! Their later work is good too, especially with songs like Kasmir and Achilles Last Stand. But I love their bluesy dirty groove oriented songs like What Is And What Should Never Be and The Lemon Song (the bass in that song will blow your mind!). Ramble On is another great tune

[Guest Len B'stard]

That one was done pretty quickly, you can definitely feel the urgency

Really? Dazed and Confused sounds like it must've taken fuckin ages, it's so like...layered and intricate sounding. That bit during the guitar bit when Bonzo does those fuckin rolls across the kit sound sublime, they add SOOO much to the fuckin song and they don't sound like they'd be that easy to do in the place in the sound where they appear, almost feel like they're done in odd time or something. Fuckin brilliant tho!! And Communication Breakdown!! And Good Times Bad Times. It's Page that cranks my cock the most though, the bastard comes up with some fuckin riffs eh? Like that that goes, Livin' Lovin' She's just a woman and that little guitar bit that comes after, sounds proper slick!

Why didn't someone tell me about this band before?

You will love Led Zeppelin II. That album grooves like crazy man! Their later work is good too, especially with songs like Kasmir and Achilles Last Stand. But I love their bluesy dirty groove oriented songs like What Is And What Should Never Be and The Lemon Song (the bass in that song will blow your mind!). Ramble On is another great tune

I've actually got into em through this forum before but i only really heard all the albums through the once and just hooked onto their hits which i fuckin knew anyway but yeah, giving em a proper day in court now. You Shook Me sounds like that one Muddy Waters song whoose name escapes me right now. And this song Friends, i thought it was gonna break into Dedicated Follower of Fashion at one point. I like em though. I think the trick is you gotta listen to em like...you gotta bear through certain songs as they're like...slow starters but fuck me, they build and build like fucking cunts, don't they? Babe I'm Gonna Leave You is a fucking belter!

That fuckin metal tag put me off but these lot ain't metal, like one of em said, they do a lot of folky stuff, accoustic stuffs.

That bit in Whole Lotta Love where the drums go GUNH GUNH!! and Page does his little lick and then GUNH GUNH and then little lick, God, that must be like fuckin heaven to be able to perform, imagine standing in front of a few thousand people with that coming off your fingers :)

Edited July 5, 2011 by sugaraylen

[dalsh327]

Page didn't spend that much time working on the first album, they worked a lot of it out at the live shows, but there's just some things that they've said just happened and locked in step with each other pretty fast. You might see little cues here and there between them, but not a lot.

Page just knew his way around a studio by then and knew all the techniques at his disposal. He figured out ways to experiment with his guitar as well - Les Paul 101. Hendrix went to that school, so did Jeff Beck, Brian May... enough said on the guys who learn how to use a soldering iron and basic electronics. Doesn't hurt.

Page also had some Yardbirds era songs he brought into Led Zep. So the first two albums came together pretty fast because they had a lot available to them. Page "reworked" (or stole) songs they all knew. But the third and fourth albums took some time.

The third and fourth albums took some time though. The second was written and recorded on tour in different studios.

The Scandinavian tour in the fall of 68 kind of functioned as their rehearsal time, because they were playing to an audience that were supposedly seeing The Yardbirds, and the original members had already quit. Chris Dreja stuck around a little bit to see Page rehearse Bonham and Plant, and took the photo for the back cover.

This is how much a song can change over the course of a summer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58mQvW0ROag

[GivenToFly]

That fuckin metal tag put me off but these lot ain't metal, like one of em said, they do a lot of folky stuff, accoustic stuffs.

It's hard to tag Led Zeppelin, since they did a bit of everything, especially on later albums. Of the big, famous bands (that I know) only Queen has such a diverse repertoire.

I'm personally not that into their classic blues stuff, pretty much due to Plant and his voice. He goes into that whiny voice sometimes, most evidently on Communication Breakdown and You Shook Me, which I absolutely cannot stand, and ruins otherwise really good songs. But when he used a decent voice, and they had a bigger, more epic approach to blues songs (like When The Levee Breaks and Bring It On Home) it works brilliantly.

[moreblack]

Getting past their first 2 albums, they found more or less their identity. They had gotten most of the blues covers out of their system by then, and started to really lay the ground work for some pretty epic stuff. They let their James Brown and Joni Mitchell/CSNY sides out to play more...

[wasted]

I've always like Physical Graphiti, I sort of prefer it to the earlier stuff.

[dalsh327]

Give this a listen. This is one of Jimmy's finest moments on an acoustic.

[moreblack]

That was sweet.

Here's an outtake of In The Light from the PG sessions, called In The Morning at the time: