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Why did you NOT like Chinese Democracy?


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I like the demos but the final product is just a complete messy pile of crap. I won't get too much into details cause I'm done discussing the album. It's not the worst album ever made but when you think about the time, money and musicians involved and it results in songs like Scraped, Sorry, CD, it's kinda pathetic.

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I think it's too busy in some places, and all the work he put into multilayered vocals was wasted time. Songwriting and playing music isn't rocket science, and I respect people who stand by their work. Putting songs out there trying to hijack members of NIN and trying to make that into a GNR project - he might as well have just given Trent the money and done an album like Halford's "Two". That took less time and Halford pretty much got what Axl wanted. Of course it fell flat commercially except for one or two songs. At least he decided the best thing to do was a Judas Priest reunion, but he wasn't a founding member, but at least it was a cathartic time in his life.

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I liked it, for the most part. But I don't think its hard to see why people didn't.

- The songs sound like a number of ideas put together piecemeal over time. Mainly, because that is what actually happened. It was a disjointed process and sounds it. One of the less organic albums you will ever hear.

- Where are the god damn choruses? Even if you take the music in a new direction, simple song structure still applies. I say this all the time, but the most common way to describe new music to someone is to answer "well, how does it go?". Good luck doing that with this one. 'There Was A Time' and 'Prostitute' are 2 of my favorite tunes on the album. How do you explain them to someone?

- Along similar lines, not a great collection of riffs, I don't think. Its like they tried to outsmart themselves and come up with this complex things instead of just cranking out a rock song.

As I said, I liked it, pretty much. But I have never accepted this "oh, its just too complex for the average listener" routine. Yeah? Bullshit. Its just not a real accessible album.

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Guest Len B'stard

It just goes to show you how lacking Axl is in subject matter/things to be passionate about that when he's not having a go at someone from his past in the album his best inspiration for a song is something as obvious and over-tread as John Lennons murder and Catcher in the Rye, I mean it's something you'd expect from a 13 yr old starting his first band. After 15 years that little has occured to him as subject matter, really?!?! Axl really isn't someone who, by weight of intellect, happens upon meaty subject or contentious subject matter. The closest he ever came to that when he was relaying what is essentially an aspect of his personal expierience in a song like One in a Million, once inside the fame bubble, when not attacking someone from a personal relationship he doesn't really ever have anything to say that isn't...trite for want of a better word. Like Civil War for instance.

Good songwriters have a knack of taking something as simple as like, a small scene or a vignette or a mental image and constructing an entire song around it, they have that originality of perspective, the ability to be subtle and suggestive, like take Norwegian Wood by The Beatles, it's basically about an affair but it's written in such a way that its kinda infinitely interesting and subtlely suggestive and clever. Axl has never appeared to have that ability, his songs appear often as an excuse for him to rant or muse lazily, whether we're talking about the ranting of Locomotive or the lazy musing of November Rain...but there's never any delicacy to it, anything intriguing or thought provoking. Love the melodies though :)

Edited by sugaraylen
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Because I was told long before the album came out (by the media, ect ect...) that I was not to like the album. And being an American, I fell in line with everyone else and did the "cool" thing to do, and not like the album....

Oh I mean, it was way over complicated man. The songs just weren't very good you know?

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It just goes to show you how lacking Axl is in subject matter/things to be passionate about that when he's not having a go at someone from his past in the album his best inspiration for a song is something as obvious and over-tread as John Lennons murder and Catcher in the Rye, I mean it's something you'd expect from a 13 yr old starting his first band. After 15 years that little has occured to him as subject matter, really?!?! Axl really isn't someone who, by weight of intellect, happens upon meaty subject or contentious subject matter. The closest he ever came to that when he was relaying what is essentially an aspect of his personal expierience in a song like One in a Million, once inside the fame bubble, when not attacking someone from a personal relationship he doesn't really ever have anything to say that isn't...trite for want of a better word. Like Civil War for instance.

Good songwriters have a knack of taking something as simple as like, a small scene or a vignette or a mental image and constructing an entire song around it, they have that originality of perspective, the ability to be subtle and suggestive, like take Norwegian Wood by The Beatles, it's basically about an affair but it's written in such a way that its kinda infinitely interesting and subtlely suggestive and clever. Axl has never appeared to have that ability, his songs appear often as an excuse for him to rant or muse lazily, whether we're talking about the ranting of Locomotive or the lazy musing of November Rain...but there's never any delicacy to it, anything intriguing or thought provoking. Love the melodies though :)

Lyrics for Civil War are a bit cheesy (everyone I know who's a fan of the song cringes at that last bit), but I think part of the charm of songs like November Rain and TIL is that they have this innocence and naïveté to them, and I think that's what Axl is going for in those songs. It gets heavier with the Alt Lyrics for Don't Cry, why I prefer them to the more 'poppy' lyrics for the Original version, but that's not to knock good pop lyrics.

Love the lyrics to OMG, no clue what he's going on about, though :lol:

Subject matter and lyrics for Shackler's are interesting, going in the mind of a school shooter.

I love CD for the most part, but there are bits here and there which I think could be improved. The first 2 minutes of Catcher are just cacophony, always imagined the song should build up from a simple piano and vocal to a huge outro, like Hey Jude. There could be a couple more good rockers on CD, too (Riad doesn't really cut it and while I like Scraped, it's no YCBM). Only song I really don't like is SOD, it tries to be NR Part II but it just plods along, there's nothing to that song, don't see why some people love the original "Blues" version as well, sounds pretty much the same to me, though I like the added outro vocals to the album version.

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Guest Len B'stard

It just goes to show you how lacking Axl is in subject matter/things to be passionate about that when he's not having a go at someone from his past in the album his best inspiration for a song is something as obvious and over-tread as John Lennons murder and Catcher in the Rye, I mean it's something you'd expect from a 13 yr old starting his first band. After 15 years that little has occured to him as subject matter, really?!?! Axl really isn't someone who, by weight of intellect, happens upon meaty subject or contentious subject matter. The closest he ever came to that when he was relaying what is essentially an aspect of his personal expierience in a song like One in a Million, once inside the fame bubble, when not attacking someone from a personal relationship he doesn't really ever have anything to say that isn't...trite for want of a better word. Like Civil War for instance.

Good songwriters have a knack of taking something as simple as like, a small scene or a vignette or a mental image and constructing an entire song around it, they have that originality of perspective, the ability to be subtle and suggestive, like take Norwegian Wood by The Beatles, it's basically about an affair but it's written in such a way that its kinda infinitely interesting and subtlely suggestive and clever. Axl has never appeared to have that ability, his songs appear often as an excuse for him to rant or muse lazily, whether we're talking about the ranting of Locomotive or the lazy musing of November Rain...but there's never any delicacy to it, anything intriguing or thought provoking. Love the melodies though :)

Lyrics for Civil War are a bit cheesy (everyone I know who's a fan of the song cringes at that last bit), but I think part of the charm of songs like November Rain and TIL is that they have this innocence and naïveté to them, and I think that's what Axl is going for in those songs. It gets heavier with the Alt Lyrics for Don't Cry, why I prefer them to the more 'poppy' lyrics for the Original version, but that's not to knock good pop lyrics.

If you're gonna pick that subject for a song you'd better do something with it thats kinda different and he didn't, quite the opposite. Thats the point I was making, i mean, if you were pushed to sit here and basically list all the topics that Axl has picked to base a song upon, song by song, it's really pretty uninspired.

Go listen to Morrissey and have a veggie burger if you really have issues with Axl's lyrics.

I do, frequently and y'know what? Morrissey has more talent with the written word than a million Axls put together. Morrissey can actually write, songs, prose, letters, poetry, biography, you name it. Morrissey wrote stuff as a kid that is on a par with Axls best efforts, the comparison is embarassing for Axl.

Edited by sugaraylen
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If it came out in 2002 people wouldn't haven hated it as much but to wait 15 years for 9 songs puts a bad taste in peoples mouth. Axl used to say he wouldn't ever want to be only remembered for appetite for destruction and be a one hit wonder but he's been doing that for 2 decades.

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Loved the leaks, still do, but my issues with the actual final product are....

- unwanted additional guitar by BBF
- unwanted additional drums by Frank
- Vocal takes recorded at least 9 years prior (IRS & Madagascar)
- Cutting and pasting fails (Vocals on Scraped)
- Poor song choices (Rhiad, If the World & Scraped)
- the utter stupidity of trying to use/sample that 2 pieces of music for the Rhiad intro and thinking people wouldn't notice!??!
- the booklet
- Various minor adjustments within songs (removal of some backing vox in Street of Dreams annoyed me, the complete removal of the orginal guitar parts in the first TWAT leak...)
- Ruining Catcher in the Rye

For me, only Shacklers, Sorry, This I Love and Prostitute come out in any positive light.

Edited by robin2002
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