Battered Beauties

[Estranged Reality]

Just kind of an overall shit thread, though, innit?

The transparency of why it was created notwithstanding, it's fucking been discussed ad nauseam for two decades. Yeah, so have some other topics (like old songs, as bacardi pointed out) but I think there's a difference between discussing something that can inherently change over time (like pieces of art) in terms of people's perceptions and opinions versus something that is indubitably wrong (spousal abuse) and which involves facts (not opinions) and which either did or did not happen but which ultimately arguing back and forth about won't get us any closer to knowing the truth behind.

So I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed to be discussed nor am I saying it should be covered up but I don't think any fan of Axl's who is posting on a message board in 2014 hasn't already been made well aware of these things and to start a fresh topic about it solely in an attempt to prove a point (in relation to another thread about another artist) is what I find questionable.

The idea that Axl may have done these things has always been in the back of my mind in terms of making sure to separate the art from the artist -- he's a hero of mine but perhaps not someone whose personal life I should wish to strive toward idolizing. At the same time though, devil's advocate: his reputation at the time as a hellraiser could have been taken advantage of by spurned ex-lovers. I've never really made up my mind about which side i believe solely because I don't know. I've said in the past when this topic has come up that given his history Axl was likely at fault, but at the end of the day, we'll never know for sure.

[Angelica]

Can't say either way honestly I was not there and have not heard the 3 sides (Erin, Axl and the truth)

I can say that in watching the making of videos Stephanie goes out of her way to tell us that they don't fight, they don't even have disagreements.

Not saying she is lying, truth be told I have no idea really and as such it is not my business.

That's impressively stupid, even by the standards this topic often achieves. Thumbs up.

Explain? Have you heard all 3 sides? Have you watched the making fucking videos?

Happily - Don't Cry was shot at the beginning of their relationship, what bearing does a statement made a year a half before the violent incident at the end of it?

[SunnyDRE]

Sorry Shadow, but your posts in this thread are coming across as if somehow they deserved it.

I can have sympathy for any woman that has been smacked around by a man. The man's occupation is irrelevant.

And as I said in my previous post, LEAVING IS HARD. Also it should be pointed that sometimes when the abused/mistreated person in a relationship DOES TRY TO LEAVE, the other party doesn't just let them go. "I'm sorry", "I'll change", "please don't go", "we can work it out", etc.

[Estranged Reality]

Sorry Shadow, but your posts in this thread are coming across as if somehow they deserved it.

I can have sympathy for any woman that has been smacked around by a man. The man's occupation is irrelevant.

And as I said in my previous post, LEAVING IS HARD. Also it should be pointed that sometimes when the abused/mistreated person in a relationship DOES TRY TO LEAVE, the other party doesn't just let them go. "I'm sorry", "I'll change", "please don't go", "we can work it out", etc.

Not strictly relevant, but whenever people mention wife-beating and being unable to walk away, I think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUyhTDsNW50&t=3m30s

[SunnyDRE]

Can't say either way honestly I was not there and have not heard the 3 sides (Erin, Axl and the truth)

I can say that in watching the making of videos Stephanie goes out of her way to tell us that they don't fight, they don't even have disagreements.

Not saying she is lying, truth be told I have no idea really and as such it is not my business.

That's impressively stupid, even by the standards this topic often achieves. Thumbs up.

Explain? Have you heard all 3 sides? Have you watched the making fucking videos?

Happily - Don't Cry was shot at the beginning of their relationship, what bearing does a statement made a year a half before the violent incident at the end of it?

What woman wants to admit to being in a bad relationship.

[Axl_morris]

This is clearly a DUST N BONES topic. Does that section even exist still?

I'm just bored about reading about Erin cunting Everly since the whole auction thing.

Did Axl hit her? Probably, or at least I'd believe it - Axl was an angry mofo back then.

It was 25 years ago and I was shitting in nappies back then so who cares. The world moves on. I wouldn't hit a woman and I don't condone his actions, but leave it in the past. I'm sure she got a fuck load of money out of it more than anyone else who got abused in a relationship who never lived the fancy life style. Axl could knock 10 shades of shit out of me if it meant i got a fraction of the luxuries Erin had.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

Sorry Shadow, but your posts in this thread are coming across as if somehow they deserved it.

I can have sympathy for any woman that has been smacked around by a man. The man's occupation is irrelevant.

And as I said in my previous post, LEAVING IS HARD. Also it should be pointed that sometimes when the abused/mistreated person in a relationship DOES TRY TO LEAVE, the other party doesn't just let them go. "I'm sorry", "I'll change", "please don't go", "we can work it out", etc.

Well, if they come across that way it's not my intention, but I've stated several times that I don't think they deserved it in any way. And I realize there are a lot of different factors involved in domestic abuse which is why I said I do sympathize in 99.9% of cases. The cases with Axl and his ex's fall in the other 0.01% in my opinion. I do not sympathize with a woman who has the power to leave an abusive partner but does not. I realize a lot of women feel threatened and there are financial issues and children involved in probably the majority of cases, but I just don't see any of that in this situation. You can sympathize in any case, fine, but because we disagree doesn't mean I think they deserves to be beaten. I just don't feel sorry for them.

Edited February 6, 2014 by ShadowOfTheWave

[saber_]

Erin went to a GnR gig a few years ago. I think that shows she has moved on from it. Could be wrong, but I think there's some meaning to be taken from her appearance at the concert.

[John Bonham]

And I realize there are a lot of different factors involved in domestic abuse which is why I said I do sympathize in 99.9% of cases. The cases with Axl and his ex's fall in the other 0.01% in my opinion. I do not sympathize with a woman who has the power to leave an abusive partner but does not. I realize a lot of women feel threatened and there are financial issues and children involved in probably the majority of cases, but I just don't see any of that in this situation. You can sympathize in any case, fine, but because we disagree doesn't mean I think they deserves to be beaten. I just don't feel sorry for them.

They did leave. Both Erin and Stephanie left Axl Rose because he physically, verbally, emotionally and sexually abused them.

[Angelica]

Sorry Shadow, but your posts in this thread are coming across as if somehow they deserved it.

I can have sympathy for any woman that has been smacked around by a man. The man's occupation is irrelevant.

And as I said in my previous post, LEAVING IS HARD. Also it should be pointed that sometimes when the abused/mistreated person in a relationship DOES TRY TO LEAVE, the other party doesn't just let them go. "I'm sorry", "I'll change", "please don't go", "we can work it out", etc.

Well, if they come across that way I apologize, but I've stated several times that I don't think they deserved it in any way. And I realize there are a lot of different factors involved in domestic abuse which is why I said I do sympathize in 99.9% of cases. The cases with Axl and his ex's fall in the other 0.01% in my opinion. I do not sympathize with a woman who has the power to leave an abusive partner but does not. I realize a lot of women feel threatened and there are financial issues and children involved in probably the majority of cases, but I just don't see any of that in this situation. You can sympathize in any case, fine, but because we disagree doesn't mean I think they deserves to be beaten. I just don't feel sorry for them.

Sweet Muscular Jesus...

That's some seriously loathsome crap. Women also stay in abusive relationships because they have low self esteem, or were raised in abusive families and on some level feel it's normal or they deserve it, etc.

[John Bonham]

What about Axl's famous integrity, and his 'Victory or Death' motto?

Why would Axl Rose settle a lawsuit if he knew he wasn't in the wrong?

[ShadowOfTheWave]

Sorry Shadow, but your posts in this thread are coming across as if somehow they deserved it.

I can have sympathy for any woman that has been smacked around by a man. The man's occupation is irrelevant.

And as I said in my previous post, LEAVING IS HARD. Also it should be pointed that sometimes when the abused/mistreated person in a relationship DOES TRY TO LEAVE, the other party doesn't just let them go. "I'm sorry", "I'll change", "please don't go", "we can work it out", etc.

Well, if they come across that way I apologize, but I've stated several times that I don't think they deserved it in any way. And I realize there are a lot of different factors involved in domestic abuse which is why I said I do sympathize in 99.9% of cases. The cases with Axl and his ex's fall in the other 0.01% in my opinion. I do not sympathize with a woman who has the power to leave an abusive partner but does not. I realize a lot of women feel threatened and there are financial issues and children involved in probably the majority of cases, but I just don't see any of that in this situation. You can sympathize in any case, fine, but because we disagree doesn't mean I think they deserves to be beaten. I just don't feel sorry for them.

Sweet Muscular Jesus...

That's some seriously loathsome crap. Women also stay in abusive relationships because they have low self esteem, or were raised in abusive families and on some level feel it's normal or they deserve it, etc.

Oh, excuse me, I didn't name every single possible scenario in which a woman could stay in an abusive relationship. My sincerest apologies. The fact is, I am not, and have not justified Axl or any other abusers actions, I am talking about my own personal feelings on the issue. I don't feel sorry for a woman who stays in a relationship where she is being beaten the shit out of because she has low self esteem. I do not. If they were raised in abusive family, fine, I realize that's common. Is there any evidence of that in this situation? Any indication?

[Apollo]

Sorry Shadow, but your posts in this thread are coming across as if somehow they deserved it.

I can have sympathy for any woman that has been smacked around by a man. The man's occupation is irrelevant.

And as I said in my previous post, LEAVING IS HARD. Also it should be pointed that sometimes when the abused/mistreated person in a relationship DOES TRY TO LEAVE, the other party doesn't just let them go. "I'm sorry", "I'll change", "please don't go", "we can work it out", etc.

Well, if they come across that way I apologize, but I've stated several times that I don't think they deserved it in any way. And I realize there are a lot of different factors involved in domestic abuse which is why I said I do sympathize in 99.9% of cases. The cases with Axl and his ex's fall in the other 0.01% in my opinion. I do not sympathize with a woman who has the power to leave an abusive partner but does not. I realize a lot of women feel threatened and there are financial issues and children involved in probably the majority of cases, but I just don't see any of that in this situation. You can sympathize in any case, fine, but because we disagree doesn't mean I think they deserves to be beaten. I just don't feel sorry for them.

Sweet Muscular Jesus...

That's some seriously loathsome crap. Women also stay in abusive relationships because they have low self esteem, or were raised in abusive families and on some level feel it's normal or they deserve it, etc.

Exactly.

That's why I said that Shadow needs to do some research on the subject instead of sharing a view that is, quite frankly, a bit ignorant. (Didn't say HE was ignorant, just that his view on this subject is).

Shadow you keep saying that you don't think they deserved what they got, but then you give multiple reasons of why you feel no sympathy for them. Seems you are sending a mixed message. If they "didn't deserve" it why do you keep mentioning reasons that discount their actions?

[ShadowOfTheWave]

And I realize there are a lot of different factors involved in domestic abuse which is why I said I do sympathize in 99.9% of cases. The cases with Axl and his ex's fall in the other 0.01% in my opinion. I do not sympathize with a woman who has the power to leave an abusive partner but does not. I realize a lot of women feel threatened and there are financial issues and children involved in probably the majority of cases, but I just don't see any of that in this situation. You can sympathize in any case, fine, but because we disagree doesn't mean I think they deserves to be beaten. I just don't feel sorry for them.

They did leave. Both Erin and Stephanie left Axl Rose because he physically, verbally, emotionally and sexually abused them.

Yes...eventually. I do not feel sorry for the abuse they suffered after they stayed with him knowing he was an abuser.

[Axl_morris]

Lets talk about Erin's brother, Raid who sells guns to terrorist organisations?

[ShadowOfTheWave]

Sorry Shadow, but your posts in this thread are coming across as if somehow they deserved it.

I can have sympathy for any woman that has been smacked around by a man. The man's occupation is irrelevant.

And as I said in my previous post, LEAVING IS HARD. Also it should be pointed that sometimes when the abused/mistreated person in a relationship DOES TRY TO LEAVE, the other party doesn't just let them go. "I'm sorry", "I'll change", "please don't go", "we can work it out", etc.

Well, if they come across that way I apologize, but I've stated several times that I don't think they deserved it in any way. And I realize there are a lot of different factors involved in domestic abuse which is why I said I do sympathize in 99.9% of cases. The cases with Axl and his ex's fall in the other 0.01% in my opinion. I do not sympathize with a woman who has the power to leave an abusive partner but does not. I realize a lot of women feel threatened and there are financial issues and children involved in probably the majority of cases, but I just don't see any of that in this situation. You can sympathize in any case, fine, but because we disagree doesn't mean I think they deserves to be beaten. I just don't feel sorry for them.

Sweet Muscular Jesus...

That's some seriously loathsome crap. Women also stay in abusive relationships because they have low self esteem, or were raised in abusive families and on some level feel it's normal or they deserve it, etc.

Exactly.

That's why I said that Shadow needs to do some research on the subject instead of sharing a view that is, quite frankly, a bit ignorant. (Didn't say HE was ignorant, just that his view on this subject is).

Shadow you keep saying that you don't think they deserved what they got, but then you give multiple reasons of why you feel no sympathy for them. Seems you are sending a mixed message. If they "didn't deserve" it why do you keep mentioning reasons that discount their actions?

Why is it a mixed message? If someone stays in a bad situation, knowing the consequences that could and probably will happen, and if they have the choice not to stay in said situation, I don't feel sorry for them when it happens. It doesn't mean I think they deserved it in the sense that it was an appropriate thing to do to them in the first place.

[dalsh327]

Lets talk about Erin's brother, Raid who sells guns to terrorist organisations?

Her brother is Edan - ask him in his family forum that he moderates. He'd know better than anyone what that whole thing was about.

[John Bonham]

But, they didn't stay.

[Broskirose]

Fun fact: less than a year ago I couldn't tell Erin or Stephanie apart.

I've never understood the fascination with Axl's personal life. Like, who cares?

[John Bonham]

Fun fact: less than a year ago I couldn't tell Erin or Stephanie apart.

I've never understood the fascination with Axl's personal life. Like, who cares?

I've never understood the fascination with Ribfest. Like, who cares?

[ShadowOfTheWave]

But, they didn't stay.

Not permanently. Wasn't this abuse ongoing for quite awhile? If I'm wrong about he situation I'll happy apologize and concede everything I've said. But I don't get what the problem is here.

[Broskirose]

Fun fact: less than a year ago I couldn't tell Erin or Stephanie apart.

I've never understood the fascination with Axl's personal life. Like, who cares?

I've never understood the fascination with Ribfest. Like, who cares?

I don't think people are fascinated with Ribfest. It's just funny. Like Axl's mustache.

[John Bonham]

Updated the 1st post w/ the full People magazine article: http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20103471,00.html

If you'd like to discuss a recent or historical allegation against Axl Rose, go and start a thread.

[Apollo]

Fun fact: less than a year ago I couldn't tell Erin or Stephanie apart.

I've never understood the fascination with Axl's personal life. Like, who cares?

I've never understood the fascination with Ribfest. Like, who cares?

I don't think people are fascinated with Ribfest. It's just funny. Like Axl's mustache.

Except that Ribfest is actually a CHARITY event that raises money for child abuse and domestic violence situations. That's quite different than Axl playing weddings and celebrity birthday parties.

*******

Shadow - OK, I get your logic.

But violent situations usually aren't black-and-white. To you and I, maybe it's a simple call. The first or second time my spouse or GF hit me/you - we'd be out of there. But unfortunately, a lot of the women that find themselves in that situation, are there for a reason. I've worked with women who have stayed with the worst people you could imagine. "You are beautiful, smart, you could do so much better. Why do you stay with this idiot?" And they know what you are saying is true.....but for whatever the reason, they just can't leave them. Self confidence issues, father issues, mental health issues, substance issues, past abuse issues, etc - the list is endless.

So I apologize if I was rude to you. I get your reasoning and how you can look at a situation like this and not feel sorry for a victim for not simply packing up and leaving. But I think that if you took the time to sit and talk with some abusive victims, their stories would break your heart and you'd look at these situations with a different perspective. That's all I'm saying.

It's just a weird thing all around on this forum. In another topic, some lady was blabbing on about how tragic it is that the press is too mean to Axl. So people feel sorry for Axl because complete strangers make fun of him on the internet - but then also feel no remorse for women that Axl has assaulted. Priorities seem a little off, at times.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Groghan

[Broskirose]

Fun fact: less than a year ago I couldn't tell Erin or Stephanie apart.

I've never understood the fascination with Axl's personal life. Like, who cares?

I've never understood the fascination with Ribfest. Like, who cares?

I don't think people are fascinated with Ribfest. It's just funny. Like Axl's mustache.

Except that Ribfest is actually a CHARITY event that raises money for child abuse and domestic violence situations. That's quite different than Axl playing weddings and celebrity birthday parties.

Yawn.