What is the most underrated Stones record?

[DieselDaisy]

The Stones were peaking when it began to go tits up for The Fab Four. The latter had already quit touring and became divided and quarrelsome during the White Album era which is 1968, at precisely the beginning of The Stones's peak. 

[Fashionista]

11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The Stones were peaking when it began to go tits up for The Fab Four. The latter had already quit touring and became divided and quarrelsome during the White Album era which is 1968, at precisely the beginning of The Stones's peak. 

I actually feel they were peaking before that. For me, after '66, after Revolver (which I feel is their peak), the Beatles are hit and miss. Sgt. Peppers is to me a very overrated record, with like, three good songs but a very dated production (compare how dated it sounds to The Doors or Piper At the Gates of Dawn, both released the same year). I like the related singles like Penny Lane better than the album. Meanwhile the Stones mature and become a polished act on Aftermath in '66, become an amazing pop band with Between the Buttons in 67, experiment with Satanic Majesties in '67 as well (when I put it against Sgt. Pepper's, Pepper loses for me. There's only two shit songs on Majesties, whereas I only enjoy three on Pepper). There's not a single band song on Beggar's Banquet, which I can't say for The White Album; Abbey Road and Let It Bleed are of the same quality level to me, and Sticky Fingers is a stronger record IMO than Let It Be.

After Pepper, every Beatles album after has good songs (but also filler) but feel like solo albums where each band member is guesting on the other's song, there's no more tight band flow to it. Of their 67-70 releases I actually like Let It Be the best, because it's the most raw/real/no BS record they ever did. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Fashionista

[DieselDaisy]

Beatles peak: 1963-66

Stones: 1969-73. 

[Len Cnut]

53 minutes ago, Fashionista said:

Basically, also time wise, Let It Be was in 70 and Sticky Fingers was released in 71 but recorded mostly in 69 and 70 (pushed back a year in release due to legal issues with Andrew Loog-Oldham)* so it's the last Stones record to have an origin in a time when the Beatles as a group still existed and were still "competition." 

*Speaking of delays, Beggar's Banquet was supposed to come out in July '68 (recording finished in June), but the record label rejected the cover, and the band then shot this pic as an alternative cover idea:

 Mick didn't like how the pic came out, more fighting ensued and the record came out in December.

I love the way they looked back then!  I suppose it wasn't practically sustainable over the long term but still, proper cool.  Bohemian.  There was always something slightly fuckin' evil to it too, slightly demonic.  Charlie looks like Farmer Giles, Mick looks like The Artful Dodger, Brian looks like a Morrocon cowboy, Wyman looks like a cowhand and Keith looks like...well, fuck knows!

38 minutes ago, Fashionista said:

I actually feel they were peaking before that. For me, after '66, after Revolver (which I feel is their peak), the Beatles are hit and miss. Sgt. Peppers is to me a very overrated record, with like, three good songs but a very dated production (compare how dated it sounds to The Doors or Piper At the Gates of Dawn, both released the same year). I like the related singles like Penny Lane better than the album. Meanwhile the Stones mature and become a polished act on Aftermath in '66, become an amazing pop band with Between the Buttons in 67, experiment with Satanic Majesties in '67 as well (when I put it against Sgt. Pepper's, Pepper loses for me. There's only two shit songs on Majesties, whereas I only enjoy three on Pepper). There's not a single band song on Beggar's Banquet, which I can't say for The White Album; Abbey Road and Let It Bleed are of the same quality level to me, and Sticky Fingers is a stronger record IMO than Let It Be.

After Pepper, every Beatles album after has good songs (but also filler) but feel like solo albums where each band member is guesting on the other's song, there's no more tight band flow to it. Of their 67-70 releases I actually like Let It Be the best, because it's the most raw/real/no BS record they ever did. 

I can't think of a single bad Beatles song.  On their worst tracks they're at least a solid 7 out of 10.  And those are like, 5 or 6 tracks.  the key difference to me is originality.  Where The Stones tried (and did pretty well at) trying to make faithful renditions of 'x' genre, The Beatles kinda made it their own.  When The Stones do reggae you get Cherry Oh Baby (which I love, the original as well as their cover), when The Beatles touch on Ska you get Ob La Di, which sounds nothing like Ska really, it took someone pointing it out to me for me to realise 'shit, thats a Ska beat!'.  When The Beatles did blues you got Yer Blues, which to me is the best English blues I've ever seen, musically and thematically rooted clearly in the blues but with no hang up on Lennons part to sound like an old black man or to musically replicate the various tonalities of the original style.  And it just takes the subject matter right to the nth degree, suicidal, you can't get more blues than that. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Len Cnut

[DieselDaisy]

Bad Beatles' songs? Ob La Di Ob La Da, Octopus's Garden, Yellow Submarine, All Together Now. All of their comedy shite basically.

[Len Cnut]

31 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Bad Beatles' songs? Ob La Di Ob La Da, Octopus's Garden, Yellow Submarine, All Together Now. All of their comedy shite basically.

Great tracks all of em, they’re light hearted and sort of pithy but they’re supposed to be, they’re still great songs, Jesus, Yellow Submarine is like one of the most well known songs in post war popular music.  Ob La Di, again, musically, coming from a band of Scouse whiteboys in the 60s was incredibly radical, shows how much they had their ear to the street that they were aware of fuckin’ bluebeat, still surprises me how they were aware of that shit.  And it was McCartney too i think.  It look John another 10 years or so to get into his reggae.  I guess Millie Small, Desmond Dekker and Double Barrel by Dave & Ansell Collins had been in the British charts by the 60s so it wasn't invisible but even then, none of those songs were Ska as such.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Len Cnut

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

Great tracks all of em, they’re light hearted and sort of pithy but they’re supposed to be, they’re still great songs, Jesus, Yellow Submarine is like one of the most well known songs in post war popular music.  Ob La Di, again, musically, coming from a band of Scouse whiteboys in the 60s was incredibly radical, shows how much they had their ear to the street that they were aware of fuckin’ bluebeat, still surprises me how they were aware of that shit.  

Awful McCartney-Ringoish shite. Lennon hated the comedy songs.

[Len Cnut]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Awful McCartney-Ringoish shite. Lennon hated the comedy songs.

Perhaps ol' John Boy the working class hero didn't have his ear to the streets as much as McCartney.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Len Cnut

[DieselDaisy]

Maxwell's Silver Hammer is another one. 

[Len Cnut]

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Maxwell's Silver Hammer is another one. 

Again, another song that gets slagged off to death but I think its wonderful.  Weird, demented, sort of creepy and it sounds almost like a Music Hall tune.  And its pretty funny too. 

[DieselDaisy]

BANG BANG Maxwell Silver Hammer - Mal Evans going clank clank with a hammer. Awful.

[DieselDaisy]

I think I have on a boot, Voodoo Soup or something similar,

 

 

[Len Cnut]

5 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

BANG BANG Maxwell Silver Hammer - Mal Evans going clank clank with a hammer. Awful.

This is a band that sung Moonlight Bay on Morecambe & Wise y'know  

[DieselDaisy]

My main problem with the Stones in the mid '70s, IORR-BaB, is they started to sound like Status Quo or Slade. ''Crazy Mama'' and so forth. ''Mid '70s by-numbers British rock''.

''Crazy Mama'' reminds me of ''Crazy Horses'' by the Osmonds, a mid '70s slab of rock parody.

Edited August 14, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[Fashionista]

16 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

My main problem with the Stones in the mid '70s, IORR-BaB, is they started to sound like Status Quo or Slade. ''Crazy Mama'' and so forth. ''Mid '70s by-numbers British rock''.

''Crazy Mama'' reminds me of ''Crazy Horses'' by the Osmonds, a mid '70s slab of rock parody.

IORR, the song, is basicallv T. Rex's Bang a Gong

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Fashionista said:

IORR, the song, is basicallv T. Rex's Bang a Gong

Yes, that is what I meant. That sort of British Quoish/glam rock sound that dominated the mid '70s, usually with self-referencing lyrics. It is effectively a Berry rip but with a '70s production.

[Nicklord]

On 8/2/2018 at 7:30 PM, DieselDaisy said:

The three classic bootlegs are,

Live'r Than You'll Ever Be (Oakland, California 1969)

Get Your Leeds Lungs Out (1971)

The Brussels Affair (1973) - this was released officially (2011) although it is largely from the late show, the bootleg being the early show.

Where to find those? My usual sources only have official albums. Wanna hear that  

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

Where to find those? My usual sources only have official albums. Wanna hear that  

https://www.iorr.org/talk/read.php?2,2069733

[Fashionista]

I really dislike all the Taylor years records outside of Sticky, Exile, and Soup. Mick Taylor didn't have the attitude, look or musical feel for the Stones (yes, he was talented but it's like putting Buckethead in GN'R). He didn't have any chemistry with the band and didn't even wanna be there for the long haul. I also think as the 70s progressed with him the live show, which was perfect in '69, became more and more glammy and self indulgent. By '73 a Stones show was like a UYI GN'R show. They had two, sometimes three keyboardists, a whole horn section, etc. Brian and Ronnie to me fit better musically, and in terms of personality, and I prefer the more garage live performance of the Brian years, and the punky loose feel of the Ronnie years, to Mick Taylor. My favorite Stones live albums are Love You Live, Got Live If You Want It! and Still Life.

[Fashionista]

 

[DieselDaisy]

8 hours ago, Fashionista said:

I really dislike all the Taylor years records outside of Sticky, Exile, and Soup. Mick Taylor didn't have the attitude, look or musical feel for the Stones (yes, he was talented but it's like putting Buckethead in GN'R). He didn't have any chemistry with the band and didn't even wanna be there for the long haul. I also think as the 70s progressed with him the live show, which was perfect in '69, became more and more glammy and self indulgent. By '73 a Stones show was like a UYI GN'R show. They had two, sometimes three keyboardists, a whole horn section, etc. Brian and Ronnie to me fit better musically, and in terms of personality, and I prefer the more garage live performance of the Brian years, and the punky loose feel of the Ronnie years, to Mick Taylor. My favorite Stones live albums are Love You Live, Got Live If You Want It! and Still Life.

Well that is basically all of them except It's Only Rock 'n Roll, isn't it, as he only played on ''Country Honk'' and ''Live With Me'' on Let It Bleed. He also had ''Tops'' and ''Waiting for a Friend'', outtakes from Goats Head Soup, on Tattoo You.

The Taylor era is my favourite era above all three eras. 1/ Taylor era 2/ Jones era 3/ Wood era. Granted 1 and 2 are extremely close.

I'm literally obsessed with Taylor era Stones bootlegs. I developed this strange addiction haha.

[DieselDaisy]

Crazy Mama is a good one to get the jeans on and do a Quo impression, legs akimbo, rocking along to the chorus. 

[Sydney Fan]

On 13/08/2018 at 11:10 PM, DieselDaisy said:

Beatles peak: 1963-66

Stones: 1969-73. 

I still think they were riding that peaked wave during some girls tour. Some girls being my favourite stones album.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Sydney Fan

[DieselDaisy]

16 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

I still think they were riding that peaked wave during some girls tour. Some girls being my favourite stones album.

I prefer Tattoo You. 

[DieselDaisy]

How great is Blue & Lonesome?