Lumikki

Speaking of Susan, she went all Beta on someone today...

I don't approve of nasty comments, but I'm not thrilled about her asking the asslickers McKagan family fans to go after someone else either. And lol at her threats about finding that person's "IT address" () and bringing Duff there Jesus

I thought it was a good read. Knew a lot of it already, but it had some interesting bits in it (not to mention new pictures!)

I also thought this story was really cute:

Quote

The complex dynamic between the two Midwestern rockers goes back to 1977, on Jane Boswell’s art table at Jefferson High School in Lafayette.

It was their sophomore year of high school, and Jeff Isbell and William Bailey (Axl Rose) were drawing in Boswell’s “Arts and Crafts Pottery” class. Izzy was the better illustrator and member of the school’s Art Club. Axl, the better singer, was in the Boys and Girls Ensemble. The two weren't following the lesson plan that particular day. “Gotcha little bastards!” is what Boswell tells me she wanted to say. Instead, she began to admire their drawing.

“They were combing opposing elements into a beautiful whole,” she tells me over the phone. “The whole, it’s funny now that I think about it, was a skull-like figure with guns and roses.”

I can totally picture little Izzy and little Axl sitting at a table in school and drawing skulls, guns and rosese instead of doing... pottery or whatever it is they were supposed to be doing.

And it's cute that they worked on one drawing together, creating something beautiful. Similar to what they later did with their songs.

Quote

Boswell tells me Izzy and Axl were illustrating their feelings; tormented by the a pall hanging over them resulting from childhood trauma. Public court documents indicate that Izzy's parents were divorced in 1973. A Lafayette local who knew the Isbell family tells me that Izzy's mom was extremely bitter about the divorce and felt that Richard Clyde Isbell, the father, had abandoned her and their three sons. Boswell describes Axl's strict Pentecostal upbringing as "difficult." It was later discovered that Axl was sexually abused by his biological father, William Rose, who abandoned the family when Axl was just two. 

Following their art class collaboration, the two boys began silkscreening their design onto plain white T-shirts, a logo for some future punk band. “That took courage,” says Boswell. During Izzy's senior year, 1979, as he walked down the halls of Jefferson High, Boswell saw him for one last time. “He told me he was going to California to start a rock & roll band.”

So the teachers knew about Axl's home life. Well then.

And I knew Izzy's parents divorced, but didn't know his father left in such a shitty way. But then again Izzy isn't one to talk much about his private affairs, unlike the rest of the guys.

Also I really like this picture I always love it when "new" old pictures appear.

And the rest for completeness' sake (and some of these are new too):

13 minutes ago, Jane M. said:

Adorkable. That's my boy.

Yes, wish I could have watched him too lol.

Here's another cute story courtesy of Chris Weber about Axl and Izzy's misdeeds:

"I was registering at school, at this community college, and someone gave us this free gift package when we left," recalls Chris. "Axl and Izzy got a hold of it, and as I was driving down the street in my car, everybody was honking and laughing at me. I finally pull over at a stop sign and I look at Axl and Izzy and they're busting out laughing. I get out of the car and there's all these maxi-pads stuck all over it! They were all over my car! That was one thing I remember in particular."

And some more about these two:

"I hear a lot of stuff now about Axl being moody," says Chris, "but when I knew him he was just a nice, pleasant, and caring guy, who would talk and listen to me, and I would listen to his problems. He was real mellow. He took his time on things, and was very meticulous. Izzy was pretty much like that too. He did things perfectly, and always finished them up. He was also quiet and reserved."

The bolded hasn't changed lol. Didn't know that Izzy is a bit of a perfectionist as well though.

13 minutes ago, Bandanaman said:

@Lumikki Oh my! I agree with you! I met Mike some months ago and he is the best. 

They should hang out again definitely. Mike is so positive and I think he could make Axl really happy.

Guns are coming to Sweden so who knows, maybe Mike will be there? I hope so! And if they come to Finland there is a BIG chance that he will be there if you ask me.

 

Oh that's cool. I met him like 10 years ago when I was still a kid more or less lol. Good to hear he's still a nice guy.

And yes, I really hope they'll meet when/if GNR come to Sweden or Finland.

Slash has remained friends with Mike all these years I think and I haven't heard about Mike doing anything that would have pissed Axl off too badly, so I think chances are pretty good.

And Axl really does need all the positive, kind-hearted people around him that he can get. He's surrounded by way too many creeps and nasty people already.

7 hours ago, SerenityScorp said:

@Lumikki You learn something new in here everyday, thx

You're welcome. People (mostly thanks to the media, the church and bad education in schools) tend to forget that there was a time before Christianity invaded came to Europe.

And during that time, all the Germanic and Slavic peoples, the Celts, the Romans and all other people in Europe already had their own cultures, beliefs and traditions.

The Catholic church more or less tried to kill and get rid of everything they thought was pagan or heathen, but they weren't quite successfull (thankfully). So some of the old traditions live on in modern "Christian" festivals like the big ones you mentioned, but also in small, local practices and traditions that no one but the people in a particular country even know.

(@giuls Sorry for torturing you so much with all the simplification going on in my posts But I can't be bothered to go into details about this issue on a GNR forum.)

7 hours ago, giuls said:

 

@Lumikki i only know that Axl some years ago had a halloween tree.

Yeah, his Halloween traditions are actually pretty well documented lol. But I've never heard Axl talk about Christmas much, so I was curious. Especially since this took place way back then when I imagine he didn't have a lot of resources, time or motivation to go all out on Christmas stuff. But maybe they were talking about the traditions he grew up with or something.

Either way, I would have been interested. I've wondered before how the guys spent holidays back in the days before they got famous. Did they go home to see their families? Celebrate together in the hell house with a couple bottles of night train and biscuits and gravy?

The only Christmas story I know of is an Izzy one, so here's an Izzy Christmas story lol:

 "Me and Izzy went to Mexico one Christmas and we were walking around, and I remember him in his white creepers and purple socks, and cut-offs, running around the rocks on the beach at this Mexican resort. Purple socks, black hair and white skin, with all these tattoos, and he was chasing iguanas. All these straight people were looking at him, but he didn't care cause he was having a great time. He didn't look like anyone else. He was totally different from anyone they'd ever seen, and he was chasing these iguana lizards."

Okay, not very Christmas-y, but it counts. And I can so picture what Chris Weber's describing here.

Izzy must have looked like a huge dork

Then there's the sad story about Axl in alone in the studio on Christmas and Meegan and Slash's disastrous Christmas party. I noticed Duff was at that Christmas party too.

45 minutes ago, Bandanaman said:

Did you guys know that Axl believes in paranormal? Michael Monroe said he and Axl talked a lot about paranormal stuff in the 90's. They watched a video from a Guns N Roses gig together and in that video you can see something pushing Axl and he flies forward. They believe Axl was pushed by a ghost. 

I have been trying to find that video but no luck yet, does anyone know more? I really want to see the video.

Never seen a video like that. Might be one of the shows in the vault that the normal public has never seen.

Fun fact:

I've met both of the guys in this picture.

I met Mike Monroe in Helsinki once and I can't say enough good things about him.

He was just so sweet and nice to me and my friend.

Spent a lot of time talking with us, took pictures with us and when we said goodbye he ripped some of the badges (buttons? pins? whatever these things are called) from his clothes and gave them to us. Just really kind and warm-hearted.

The opposite of when I met Axl basically  (nah, Axl was decent to me as well, I shouldn't be so mean )

I think Mike Monroe and Axl should hang out again.

9 hours ago, SerenityScorp said:

But well, because of religion holiday/festival/event like Easter or Christmas could exist

Not really. All these so-called "Christian" festivals like Christmas or Easter are built upon pagan traditions anyway. Mostly revolving around sun worship.

The Romans were already exchanging gifts around the time of the midwinter solstice (it was called Saturnalia iirc) before Christianity arrived. Similarly, the Germanic people held winter solstice celebrations as well with food and drink and decorated their houses in evergreens.

Celebrating Christmas was even forbidden in England and the United States during the 16th and 17th century because it was considered "too pagan" and "too sinful".

It's funny to think how Christians wanted to ban Christmas back then when nowadays you can't even escape all the "Christmas is Jesus' birthday" nonsense everywhere. Though I do know that some really fundamentalist Christians in the US don't celebrate Christmas, Easter and Halloween because they're all "evil, pagan festivals".

Personally, I have no problem at all celebrating "Christmas" (I'd rather call it Yule in English) and Easter as a non-religious person. I'm not celebrating anybody's birth or miraculous return from death, I'm celebrating the midwinter solstice, the return of light, the return of spring, nature, family togetherness, good food and spending time with loved ones.

Back on topic, I recently saw a journalist mention that she talked to Axl about his Christmas traditions on the phone for a while in 1987.

And that's all she said bout it.

I was so annoyed, I'd have loved to hear more about Axl's Christmas traditions.

47 minutes ago, Frey said:

I don't think anyone here objects to it because it isn't "sweet, lovely and nice" to look at. That is a silly thing to say. I'm not a squeamish person at all (quite the opposite actually), and I still think it's an unnecessarily ugly and ridiculous symbol for various reasons, and I'd never hang one into my house.

Yep. Living in a Catholic country, these things are everywhere and you're used to them. But I still would never voluntarily hang one up anywhere near me. I dislike organized religion, the Catholic church and everything to do with it way too much to want something like that around me. 

2 hours ago, Asia said:

Some pretty finds - the first is from Marc's wedding, I think, and the second, I'm not sure if you could see it before, is hmmm... interesting

Yes, that's from Marc's wedding. Interesting assortment of people there- Axl's brother Stuart, Axl and Slash (does Axl have his arm around Slash? it looks like Axl's got his arms around Slash and the chick on the left), Duff cuddling Mandy... and where's Izzy?

Here's some more:

(I remember @Frey calling this picture the "Duff, Axl and their kid" picture or "rainbow family picture" or something like that when this was posted here a long time ago )

Have to say, Axl looked cute that day:

These are from Marc Canter's wedding as well. Axl playing November Rain on the piano. I don't know why, but I think he looks really sad, or kind of "out of it" in these.

2 hours ago, Asia said:

I've always liked that one. The way Axl looks at Slash is quite sweet. And I like how Slash's just lying there on his stomach, right next to Axl.

2 hours ago, giuls said:

@Frey The first one is obviously about religion and religious organizations (Tax writeoffs + shelters + such/Funded by the ignorants' bucks) and with his experience i would think he has a very negative view about it (i don't get his crucifix obsession, then but maybe he just see it as a fashion accessory and i can't divorce the religious aspect because i live in THE catholic country)

For Tantrum I: the title makes me thinks the "them" in question are his demons, he begs for it to stop and to go away but he knows they're coming back and they manifest in what others call his tantrums (biting, screaming etc.) and the last verse it's like, him accusing the people around him that they make a show of forgiving him for his "tantrums" but they just don't understand how hard it is to be him and they're not just tantrums but a result of the shitty childhood he had.

It obviously goes back to his family, they traumatized him but i think he's talking about his "freaks out".

That's a good interpretation, yes. When I first read these lines

Someone please make it stop
Beating them back to the bushes
God knows they'll come back again
Been through this so many times

it actually made me think of someone with some kind of mental illness that causes hallucinations or makes you hear voices. The "them" in question being the voices or the awful thoughts that make him act out (or demons as you called them), yeah. I'm not saying Axl's necessarily suffering from anything like that, that's just the first thing that came to my mind while reading.

The other thing that came to my mind, more in line with @Freys thoughts is that the first couple of lines (Screaming / Biting / Calling /Fighting / Someone please make it stop) sound a bit like a child trapped in a moment where "shit was going down in their house" (as Axl called it) and the child praying for it all to stop. The rest of the lines sound more like his present day dealings with his parents- them constantly reappearing in his life and trying to manipulate him. Didn't Axl say that his parents kept trying to convince him to come back and that his stepfather even promised to pay for his college education if he came back or something like that? And of course other stuff like the letters, the LALD video thing (though that probably hadn't happened yet when he wrote this).

---------

The other one... I agree that this is way harsher than the views about religion Axl has usually expressed in interviews and that a few lines seem to be directed at a specific person, though the rest of the song is about religious organization in general.

And yes, the irony of him writing about frauds who steal ignorant people's money. I need to bite my tongue. But I'd really like to know how many millions they stole from him. Because the more numbers I hear about what he payed these people for various things, the more angry I get. And considering that they spent years and years leeching his money off him, we're probably talking millions.

@giuls and @killuridols I get the impression Axl actually is somewhat religious. I remember him saying his religious beliefs are difficult to explain and that he doesn't want to talk about them in the 90s. More recently Pamela Manning claimed that Axl does believe in God. So I don't find his crucifix obsession that surprising. He also probably likes the gruesome, tortured messiah aspect of these things. 

On 14.10.2016 at 10:37 AM, Asia said:

I thought that Axl's corn costume was Nu GNR era and I just learned it was still with the old band, not too important but surprised me, nevertheless.

Yeah, Slash was at the Halloween party where Axl wore the corn costume. It was in 1994. Probably the last time Slash attended one of Axl's Halloween parties.

Ear of corn Axl:

Slash at the same party:

Some more Craig Duswalt pictures because why not:

With Axl. Axl looks cute here I think.

With Slash:

(Going by the expression on Slash's face, the second picture was probably taken after the kiss lol)

With Duff and wearing the same NIN (?) shirt Axl has (the guy in the middle is Axl's chiropracter):

With Steph and Dylan and the woman hugging Duswalt is Axl's sister Amy:

The one with the baby wallaby in the sling Axl made that I posted earlier in this thread:

Axl in Argentina choosing something from the menu so Duswalt can order it for him

More Axl in Argentina with Duswalt, Earl, etc.

14 hours ago, SerenityScorp said:

Talk about Slash Christmas cards, I doubt Axl ever gets those cards

Yeah.

I wouldn't be surprised if TB saw Christmas cards from Slash in the mail and immediately threw them away so Axl wouldn's see them.

They have a history of doing stuff like that. 

14 hours ago, Frey said:

Sounds really dramatic when you put it like that

Young, innocent Axl, travelling an entire continent, just to find Izzy. It's a perilous journey and he even ends up getting sexually assaulted. But he continues on, just to find Izzy. Aimlessly walking around for miles and miles in a huge city, a city completely unknown to him. He wanders around for days or even weeks, just hoping that luck would be on his side, despite him having better chances of finding a needle in a haystack. Just to find Izzy.

All joking aside, that actually is a pretty insane and terrifying thing to do for a 17 year old. I sure as hell wouldn't want my kid to do that.

 

I agree that's is an insane and terrifying thing to do for a 17 year old and it makes me shudder to think about it, but Axl wasn't 17 when he went looking for Izzy in L.A. He was a little older then already, since Izzy only left for L.A. after he had graduated high school and Axl didn't immediately follow him.

The sexual assault incident with the air conditioning repair man did happen when he was 17 though. Iirc he said something about never having been out of Lafayette in his life and being naive, so that was probably the first time he went hitchhiking.

17 hours ago, Jane M. said:

Nice find @Lumikki I've never read anything regarding Izzy complaining about his guitars disappearing but maybe it is because he gave it to Axl? or Axl loves keeping souvenirs from his past relationships. LMAO! This keeps getting funnier and weirder everyday.

@Frey maybe you were right about Izzy and Axl

But that would be the sane, non-crazy explanation, so I didn't even bother mentioning it (Also why would you give such a beautiful guitar to your pain in the ass singer? Not sure if I would, if I were Izzy. But maybe they were having a ~momemt~, and filled with childhood nostalgia and feelings of exasperated affection, Izzy gave it to Axl).

Whatever the case, I think the important thing is that Axl kept it all these years, that speaks volumes.

17 hours ago, killuridols said:

wow @Lumikki you're getting better and better!

Yes, I think that looks exactly like Izzy's guitar and I wouldn't be surprised if that was actually Izzy's guitar.

Axl keeps a lot of things from the past at home, I know this for a fact.

His house must be a GN'R museum

Haha, thanks

And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised either if it was Izzy's guitar. It probably is.

And I would love to visit his GNR museum

13 hours ago, Frey said:

I woud pay to read Axl's journals, so I fully approve of Duff's plan.

I mean these journals have got to contain some of the most entertaining and crazy reading material known to mankind.

 

Also I know what Axl kept from Slash now:

A lock of his hair probably. Or something equally creepy

I can see it now:

Axl has Izzy's old guitar in bed with him to cuddle with it, like @Jane M. described, on the left side of his bed there's the magical crystal ball sculpture given to him by Yoda's husband and on the right side of his bed is a lock of Slash's hair in a glass jar

1 hour ago, giuls said:

In the vein of Axl talking and Slash listening (and because they're hot)

Original color version if you want it. Unfortunately has Doug Goldstein in it though

Strange to see Axl dressed in all black formal looking clothing (looks like he's wearing black pants and a black button-down shirt to me or something like that).

And are these grey hairs in Slash's hair?  (Or maybe his hair's wet and reflecting the light in strange ways).

33 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

Saw this the other day, didn't know Axl had been to visit a hospital again since 2006.

Maybe he was using the patients for listening, seeing as some can't get up and run away. 

Well yeah, they're the perfect victims obviously

Stuck listening to Axl's stories all day long. Nearly makes me want to be a patient in that hospital.

Seriously though, where did that picture come from?

Is this one of these "Axl being a nice person in secret without telling anyone about it" occasions again?

7 hours ago, killuridols said:

Do you know what year was this? It also caught my attention that collection of guitars that gets shown a few seconds. Could you translate what is that about, please?

Yes, I thought of that too. It's always the same kind of people that gets invited to "his world". I don't know how the boyfriend of that girl made it to the party too  (this year models were told to leave their bf's at home, remember?)

The ephemeral side of these encounters does not appeal to me. He opens himself up to real strangers who he knows nothing about and I don't know if he cares about them at all. I mean, does he use them just for listeners or does he show some interest in exchanging experiences and stories with these people? Just talking about yourself is not cool, IMO.

Do you think he's drunk in the video? It looked to me like he was a little "happy" and that is too another constant in this kind of stories: drunk Axl tells lots of stories and opens up to fans, saying stuff he shouldn't say. Then he has Del or someone from the freak show watching around so that he doesn't let too much out.

My best guess is 2012 because I googled and that's when there was a thread here on mygnr about this video. The link to the original source of the video doesn't work anymore, but the guy who re-uploaded the current one on Youtube also uploaded in 2012.

They don't really say anything about the guitars. They just talk about how excited they were to see Axl's house and that they didn't know what to expect. The girl also says that she could barely believe it at first (that she would be at Axl Roses's home at 3 in the morning), but then she saw all the guitars and original GNR stuff and knew it was for real. That's it. I'm curious about the guitars as well though. Does anyone recognize any of them as Slash's or Izzy's? It wouldn't surprise me at all if Axl had kept some of their old guitars all these years. The black one in particular seems familiar to me for some reason. Or maybe they're just guitars he bought for himself over the years?

The boyfriend probably got to come along because he comes across like a slightly creepy possessive douche and wouldn't have let her go alone. He spends quite a bit of time blabbering about how he didn't know what Axl's and the other people's intentions were and that it was his job to make sure things didn't get out of hand. Says he isn't a jealous guy, but it's important to show other men their limits and tell them to leave their hands off his girlfriend. Sounds like he's way over-estimating his own importance.

Honestly, I think Axl mostly uses them as listeners. They are allowed to ask questions about his stories so he gets to go into more detail on them, but I've never heard about Axl asking any of these people about their own lives. It fits with him being so self-centered imo, just another facet of that whole issue. (And from the way Slash tells it, it even was that way when Axl talked to him all night long: Axl would talk, Slash would listen.)

And yes, I do think he's at least slightly drunk there. His face is all flushed and they were at a club earlier and drinking gets mentioned a few times during the video, so he probably was.

-------------

On a more positive note, I do like how much Axl loves dogs. As someone who is constantly worried about my dog getting shot by hunters (because for some terrible hateful reason hunters here are allowed to shoot dogs if they see one running around ), I totally get his feelings about police needlessly killing dogs.

Also have to say he looks pretty good in the picture with the waitress. Looks much the same as in the picture with Fergie.

1 hour ago, giuls said:

@Lumikki Thank you for the translation, it's a really nice story when he's in a good mood he's a sweetheart

Yeah, I'd really like to hang out with him when he's in one of his good moods.

23 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Thank you @Lumikki for translating! That video has been around for a long time and no one could ever decipher which was the language , hence most of us were lost in the dark with the whole toilet thing.

What I find weird is that with all the "privacy" and "secrecy" issues Axl has, there's a video like this on the Internet, showing parts of his house that are supposed to be the most private (yeah, at this point no images of his bedroom is lulz) and a woman telling a story like this one.

I think it contradicts a lot of messages sent by himself and his management. Also, it is weird that he invites so many random people to his house without checking who they are.... I could never do that, I don't know.... the way he establishes relationships is odd to me.

Yeah the toilet thing, I dont know. Seems like they just decided to use his toilet (or have a look at it) before leaving. They point out his high tech toilet and the playboys, but nothing else.

I agree it's weird. But it seems to be the same kind of thing as with the models- someone from Axl's entourage picks nice looking girls out, they get invited backstage/to the tour bus (or his home in this case), then Axl proceeds to tell them all kinds of stories for a while and then they get sent home.

I guess Axl just really likes having people (preferably beautiful female people) around to tell stories to. That's what we keep hearing from all these models and other people who got to hang out with him: He tells stories, they listen.

@starlight Hah! Yeah, that's a good and very fitting suggestion as well

12 hours ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

@Lumikki That Chicago song  we should make our own Axl and Slash compilation album lol. 

You are good for not being greedy and only needing one at a time. I've always found it difficult to choose between Slash and Axl, so both would work for me (if I weren't already married to my soulmate) 

I looked up the lyrics to the Thin Lizzy song and 

Hahaha yes, or a Youtube playlist

I only said I wouldn't want to have more than one in bed with me lol. Since I have difficulty deciding between 4 of them, I probably would just keep all of them around probably

You mean

"Like thunder and lightning
God damn, it's so exciting
It hits you like a hammer
God damn"

?? Seems like Slash finds Axl pretty exciting and thrilling (he did admit to enjoying when Axl did something crazy like jump into the crowd to start a fight)

And the general them of violence and agressio going on in that song might remind Slash of Axl as well, I guess.

12 hours ago, Jane M. said:

LOL

Back then I wouldn't have touched either with a ten foot pole. They were gross, all five of them.

I don't consider myself a prude but that stuff about sharing partners is disgusting

IMO.

Hahaha, yes

But there's a sliding scale of grossness for me. Axl for example never seemed as unwashed to me as the rest. He usually looked cleaner somehow.

It's like this:

Steven- an unwashed, drooling mess with more body hair than a shag carpet and also with terrible clothes and head hair, and just really not my type at all in general

Slash- an unwashed mess that probably smells like piss and booze and wears his one pair of pants for 3 months (but no underwear of course)

Izzy- an unwashed mess with frequently greasy hair and an aversion to showers  ("Guitarists like for the grease to build up on their fingers!")

Axl- not an unwashed mess, but a mess in completely different ways instead

Duff- usually the most clean looking one after Axl, and also a nice guy

Looking at it this way, my choice would probably be Duff, I guess, if I had to pick one. Unfortunately for me, Duff is a decent human being and never cheated on his wives, even back then (if his claims can be believed). So I would have been shit out of luck.

@killuridols Ah, gotcha I'll think about what I know about these years...

@MillionsOfSpiders Yes, it was the weird magical glass sculpture that Elliot Maynard had given him most likely. I remember @Frey started a thread in D&N some months ago with a video of Elliot Maynard talking about his magical crap sculptures and about how he'd given one of these to a famous singer who lives in Malibu, who apparently keeps the magical crystal ball sculpture next to his bed

11 hours ago, Frey said:

Yeah, I've read all these articles and I'm very aware of all the crazy things Axl supposedly believed over the years, but believing that Slash's soul is not his own anymore and that the Slash we have now is basically just a different person walking around in Slash's skin is even crazier than all the past life stuff.

I'm not willing to believe Axl is quite that crazy, especially when the only source we have for that claim (as far as I know) is Tom fucking Zutaut. Who has a habit of telling questionable, bizarre stories.

Among other things, Tom Zutaut was also the one who recently claimed Axl's stepfather used to rape him in public toilets. Which I think is a) an incredibly inappropriate thing to bring up in some random interview and it's really not his place to talk about this stuff, even if Axl told him about it and b) Axl has never said anything like that and has never accused his stepfather of sexually abusing him.

Because of this and other things that guy has said, I'm rather skeptical of anything that comes from Tom Zutaut. I think I actually talked about this to someone on here ( @stella maybe?) before, because other people have noticed Tom Zutaut always telling weird stories as well.

Yeah, Tom Zutaut also liked to tell very sensationalist stories about the recording of CD, Buckethead etc.

I was like, okay, whatever, about that, but his rather graphic comments about Axl being sexually abused by his step father (not to mention the soul-carrying raven story) in the BBC documentary made me side-eye him as well.

I don't know what his deal is and I'm not sure what to think about him.

On 6.10.2016 at 11:38 AM, Frey said:

Maybe Axl is one of these "It's not gay as long as there's at least one woman involved!" guys. Didn't Adriana (or was that Steven?) also describe an incident where Slash and Axl were in bed with Adriana, then Steven came in and Axl asked him to join them too? So that would have been 3 guys in one bed then.

I can't speak for Axl, but the thought of being in bed with two other guys really doesn't excite me, whether there's an Adriana involved somewhere in the mix or not.

But maybe I'm just a prude lol.

Even as a girl I still wouldn't want to be involved in that, yikes. I wouldn't have said no to Axl on his own. Or Slash (provided he hadn't recently pissed himself). Or Duff. Or Izzy.

But Steven? No thanks. And no need for more than one of them either.

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

1 hour ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I've never heard this before. Wow, he really does sound very strange. I was just reading in the 2002 archives an interview Metal Sludge did with Earl, the bodyguard dude. Not seen that before either, loads of interesting things in it, most notably, he answers nearly all questions apart from one , asking if Axl had to go to a psychiatrice hospital. Looks like that probably did happen, reading that interview. 

I read that interview too but I didnt think it was fake... now I'm like "you don't know who the hell to or not to believe"

We should start a topic based on "Axl's lost years", especifically from 1998 to 2002, because those years are very confusing, there's not a lot of info around but the few pieces we have, put together, could throw some light about that time.

Funny how lot of fans jumped off the ship in those years. I didn't quit but I was disappointed too and looked at everything with a grain of salt. Not attracted to Axl, nor his music or his new weird replacements of the old band members

Thanks for posting that interview, @killuridols, I've never heard this before either. But I agree, he doesn't sound normal at all here. He talks very slowly at times, needs a lot of time to collect his thoughts and sighs a lot. He sounds tired and exhausted, and like giving that interview is taking a lot of effort for him. Basically he sounds depressed and burned out.

Earl interview: I remember reading that it was fake as well.

Lost years thread: Good idea! The mystery years fascinate me as well. Where should that topic be started though? Here in the Jungle Section? D&N?

Here's a pic from these years that I don't see posted often. Axl looks pretty chunky and lumberjack like here

On 6.10.2016 at 6:54 PM, Frey said:

On 6.10.2016 at 2:16 PM, MillionsOfSpiders said:

@Frey Yes, I think that subtle little noodle in CTD would've definitely let Axl know that he didn't appreciate Sorry  That, and the "Slash is a cancer best removed and avoided" thing, right when his mum died of cancer, well he probably thought Axl deserved another verbal kicking.

That damn Boston song is pure evil, once it gets in your head, sorry  

Yeah lol.

I was forced to hear "Nothing Compares To You" (the Sinead O'Connor song) three times today.

I'm thinking that would be a perfect song for them as well, what with Axl being completely unable to ever find anyone like Slash and all that.

Q: "What keeps you from making a new record?" 

Axl: "Slash."

LOL "More than a feeling" and "Nothing compares to you", A+ suggestions

To go with that, I also heard another song on the radio today that made me think of this discussion:

"Hard to say I'm sorry" by Chicago Very fitting for these two idiots.

Btw, here's an actual song that Slash said always makes him think of Axl:

Axl never mentioned any song that makes him think of Slash, but he supposedly likes "By the sword" and also Hoobastank for some reason, as @killuridols pointed out.

So I'm gonna go with this for Axl's song lol:

On 4.10.2016 at 4:22 PM, Kara said:

I was just thinking the same thing! Must be someone here on the forum 

@Lumikki thanks for clearing it up for me! I keep seeing it pop up all over IG and I've had my doubts every time. This last time I had to finally ask because it was really bothering me to even think it was a fake picture. I'll never understand why ppl start passing around photos/ information that isn't real. Everyone should find out the truth before they post anything, and I'll be sure to let them know it if I ever see anything like that again.

Yeah, I don't get why people do this either. Thankfully I don't use Instagram much; all the misinformation being spread around on there wouldn't be good for my blood pressure

4 hours ago, giuls said:

I didn't take that as something that happened as soon as they moved in together but later when shit hit the fan and the emotions between them weren't as warm and fuzzy anymore or Slash could have been  frustrated that Axl needed affirmation of his love again and again or he would freak out.

I don't know about Slaxl's activity in the bedroom @Asia and @Lumikki but it sure makes for a nice topic of discussion 

That's a really sad thought, but after thinking about this some more, and with Axl being as insecure as he is and having so many issues, I think I could see something along these lines happening.

God, these two are such a mess.

4 hours ago, Asia said:

Unless he wanted to be mean, which is very likely Beause he was angry. Plus he said himself - every song he wrote on that album is about one person and the person is Axl. SO I guess I won't quarrel with him

By fucked I meant literally fucked and literally one another. That they liked doing it to others together is another story and I'm pretty sure it was the case. Definitely there's a fine line here somewhere that is not so easy to define when you speak about it, I agree with you on that one.

Yeah, but according to that "I Hate Everybody But You" is about Axl too

And yes, things get blurry with these two when it comes to that issue. I have no idea whether they ever had sex with each other (without any women involved) or not. On the one hand, they don't even need to have gone that far to be as emotionally entangled as they are, on the other hand, I wouldn't exactly be shocked either. Nothing shocks me anymore when it comes to this band and these two in particular

17 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The "lousy lay" line seems random if taken literally, i.e. as being about Axl's skills in bed, but it may be read as "lousy husband/boyfriend", because the time the songs were written Axl was dealing with Stephanie's and Erin's lawsuits and maybe Slash was taking shots at him about that (it also fits with the previous "the ugly truth has raped you" line). Yes, it would be mean on Slash's part (as well as the "show the bruises" and "I had to say I love you" lines), but considering how angry and bitter he was at that time (Axl had rejected his songs, the "Sympathy for the Devil" story, Tobias etc) it makes sense that he wanted to be mean.

Having said all that, and although content wise this song may very well have been about Axl imo, there's something which makes me think that the lyrics are Eric Dover's and not Slash's. Compared to the songs Slash stated (in the quotes @lilacmess posted) he wrote the lyrics to, this one seems more... well written? I mean, judging from these songs, it's obvious that lyrics writing isn't exactly Slash's strong point

Yeah, the "lousy husband/boyfriend" interpretation has crossed my mind as well, but that would still be pretty nasty and low, considering all the court drama going on at the time. Which is probably exactly what Slash intended then, but... I don't know. I guess I'm just not a fan of people talking like that about each other even when they're fighting and really angry at someone. I try not do that myself and I don't like seeing Slash do it either. You don't have to be quite as harsh to express anger and disappoinment.

I can't help but wonder how Axl felt when he read all those lyrics. If Axl hadn't realized before that these songs were about him, he definitely knows now after reading Slash's book (and if he didn't know before, he probably ran straight for his copy of "It's 5 o'clock somewhere" after reading that part in Slash's book).

And yeah, the lyrics do feel slightly different, but I'm not really familiar enough with Slash's lyric writing (apart from the things you said lol) to judge if this was written by him or not.

For the record, I'm not actually trying to argue against that song being about Axl all that much, it probably is about Axl, what I meant to say in my original post is that I don't feel as certain about this one being about Axl as I do about Take It Away or WDYWTB, because it just feels a little different to me, for whatever reasons.

1 hour ago, starlight said:

@Lumikki Slash claimed that "I Hate Everybody But You" was written for Renee, I think he said that in his book

Thanks, didn't remember that. But Renee makes sense as well, yeah.

2 hours ago, giuls said:

the "i love you" part, it may not be a romantic i love you, i'm thinking about Axl's "i will still be your friend" in that famous interview, it was said very non-chalantly, it's not a stretch that they talked about what it would happen if they failed and saying to each other "no matter what, we'll always have eachother" and i can see Slash opening with "Axl, i'm saying it because i love you and i'm your friend" when he thought Axl was going to freak out about what he has to said to try to keep him calm.

1 hour ago, Asia said:

They used the word love in relation to how they feel about each other about a million times, Axl even said "I love you" to Slash on stage, you've got plenty of footage where they would hug each other in a way that was really VERY affectionate, what makes anyone think they weren't telling each other I love you on a regular basis? Isn't that what you do in loving families?

I guess we really should understand thet their relationship was not the regular friendship, being buddies or whatever but much, much more. As Duff once said - "Would I ever get in that kind of relationship with some other guy? No way!". It was a very special one of a kind thing they had between them and even though I don't personally believe they fucked, I think it was in fact quite romantic. Or just watch that video I made and tell me it ain't love and it ain't quite romantic

The bolded is exactly my point. Slash and Axl used to be very affectionate with each other and clearly loved each other (whether in a platonic, romantic or god knows what way- I didn't necessarily interpret that line in any specific way, just in a general way). So Slash going "I had to say I loved you just to try and keep the peace" is basically him saying he never liked Axl anyway, but he had to pretend that he did in order to keep Axl happy. Which I find hard to believe considering all the evidence to the contrary.

The reason why I said this sounds more like something Slash would say about some woman is because Slash has been in plenty of relationships with women that he didn't really care for, but to keep things peaceful he pretended otherwise and didn't tell them about the cheating, drugs etc. (just like he did with Meegan). But Axl? I doubt all the closeness that can be seen bewteen them was just acting on Slash's part to keep things smooth in the band.

1 hour ago, Asia said:

I guess we really should understand thet their relationship was not the regular friendship, being buddies or whatever but much, much more. As Duff once said - "Would I ever get in that kind of relationship with some other guy? No way!". It was a very special one of a kind thing they had between them and even though I don't personally believe they fucked, I think it was in fact quite romantic. Or just watch that video I made and tell me it ain't love and it ain't quite romantic

I have no desire whatsoever to tell you it ain't like that

As for whether they fucked or not... depends on how you look at it I guess. As has been established earlier on in the thread, they were at least involved in a number of sexual situations together (though you could say that about all the guys in the band probably). And then of course you have people like Adriana Smith who say Axl liked to have Slash in bed with him/them as a "fun, naughty" thing. Or something like that, it's been a while since I read that. But iirc she said "it was just one of these things we did...", making it sound like Axl dragging Slash into bed was something that happened more than once. Make of that what you will

2 hours ago, giuls said:

@Lumikki i don't take that orphan line literally, Slash talked about Axl crying about his home life all the time, he has a loving family and wasn't it Slash that told a story about how no-one but Axl's grandma went to see them in concert when they were in Indiana and that's why he only likes Axl's grandma because he thought it was sad for Axl? so i don't think it's a stretch that he would equate Axl as an orphan, plus, him saying in public that daddy was his best friend and what he said to his favorite confidant where he didn't have to save face may have been two different things.

"movie screen" line: Axl was (is?) obsessed with fame and luxury (male and female servant?) Slash wanted to make it, sure, but it was more about the music, to him the money was a minor point in confront of the importance placed in money and being famous by Axl, Slash has less problems about control and he has a less extravagant life style in confront of Axl, Axl is a diva, you know what i mean?

And yes, the bruises and the lousy lay are kinda cruel and a cheap shot (males and their virility...) but this is an angry song and he would try to hurt Axl, this is the same man that admitted to fanning the flames of the feud and that in 2010 published a song about Axl with the line "to me you're dead" and this something you say to hurt people, he could have said "thank you, Ozzy, but maybe it's a bit much" and this was in 2010, in 1994/95 the wounds were still fresh

Yeah, but I said "Assuming we're supposed to take these lines literally..." If I look at it the way you do, yeah, then I agree, Axl was an orphan in the sense that he didn't really have a loving family who had his back and was kinda alone and lost in that regard. Same goes for the movie screen line.

And I don't doubt Slash would try to hurt Axl, but the lousy lay thing just seems really... random? and out of the blue? to me compared to a line like "to me you're dead" which makes sense considering the over-all context of the song. "To me you're dead" just seems angry and hateful, the other thing seems unnecessarily intimate/personal and like a low blow. But like you said, that might just be dumb male virility thing.

4 hours ago, triad said:

No.     First, the name is wrong.  Axl's stepfather is L. Stephen Bailey.  Second, he was about 67 years old in 2014, and the guy in the photo looks much younger.

https://billiongraves.com/grave/L-Stephen-Bailey/3847448#/

Yes, my thoughts exactly.

Also looking at this guy's crimes... I can see Axl's step dad committing traffic violations (I mean he was an insane driver even with small children in the car apparently), but burglary?! Various other misdemeanors? Doesn't sound like something a straight-laced christian fundamentalist type would do. He'd have to really have changed his ways or have some kind of mental breakdown if he went from being a preacher to being a burglar.

4 hours ago, lilacmess said:

I have a little bit of information about this. There are some quotes on Chinese Whispers, where Slash explains who wrote the lyrics for what song.

"I think it's pretty easy to tell which songs he wrote and which ones I wrote: all of my songs are directed at one person... though no-one picked up on it at the time. I used the record as an opportunity to vent a lot of shit that I needed to get off my chest." (Slash, Autobiography)

"I had two songs with lyrics I'd finished myself, 'Be the Ball', and 'Take It Away'... 'What Do You Want to Be' is me and Eric... 'I Hate Everybody But You' is the closest I ever got to a love song, I wrote most of the lyrics for that... 'Back and Forth Again' was my title but Eric had the lyrics. It's about people not being able to come to some cohesive understanding and breaking up." (Slash, Metal Edge Magazine, 04/95)

"One of the first songs Eric did was a song called 'Beggars and Hangers-On', where he wrote the whole song in one night. I was really impressed with that... It's about everybody we know! Half the girls I've met in my career to this point... So we went to Rumbo in the Valley and wrote the lyrics and melodies for 13 songs in one day." (Slash, Metal Edge Magazine, 04/95)

Personally I don't think 'I Hate Everybody But You' is about Axl, but I'm open for crazy over the top, yet insightful song interpretations by the Slaxl Club Members and their Chairman! @Frey

9 hours ago, Blackstar said:

- Back And Forth Again: Although your analysis is very plausible (and I agree with you, @Asia, @giuls and @Frey that the lyrics are not "romantic" or anything like that), I have some doubts about this one. Its mood is different than the other two songs (or three, if we count Good To Be Alive in); these are angry, nasty even, while Back And Forth is more empathetic and affectionate. And it doesn't reflect so much the situation in the band, as Slash has described it (with Tobias and all that), at the time when he supposedly wrote all these songs (i.e. during 1994). It fits more to the period during of after the Snakepit tour and a little before Slash quit. Of course he could have written this earlier than the other songs, when he wasn't so angry.

Great quotes, @lilacmess!

@Blackstar I agree about the mood of BAFA being different. But I always kind of assumed that's why it's the last song on the album- to end the album on a slightly less bitter, more hopeful (though still melancholy) note. Or at least on a question mark.

But if the lyrics for that one really were written by Eric Dover for the most part, then that's a moot discussion anyway. Though Slash's explanation for the song "It's about people not being able to come to some cohesive understanding and breaking up" still fits Axl and Slash's situation lol.

Now for the other stuff...

Slash: "All of my songs are directed at one person." (Axl)

Also Slash: "'I Hate Everybody But You' is the closest I ever got to a love song, I wrote most of the lyrics for that."

I see what you did there, @lilacmess 

Seriously though, I think this is once again a case of Slash being forgetful and getting things about himself or his own life wrong lol. Apart from the fact that "I Hate Everybody But You" would pose the same problem as BAFA (being much different in tone than the other songs about Axl), the idea of that song being about Axl is just...

I mean...

"You rub me all the right ways baby"

Okay then, Slash

When you were told you're too old
To strip to pay the bills
You moved in with your loser friends
So you could take designer pills
Take it how you want it
Scream that you were framed
Cause you beat
My sister's looks and all
But the sex is just the same

Axl was told he was too old to strip to pay the bills? Mean I would have watched him strip all day long. And Slash has sex with Axl, who looks better than his sister? Well that's not exactly a hard thing to achieve, considering that Slash doesn't have a sister

Back to being serious, I remember reading somewhere that this song is about Perla. And that works way better.

I hate everybody but you
Seems no matter what I do
I can't help feelin' paranoid
Of what's in it for you (Slash was already suspecting Perla of being a gold digger)

I hate everybody but you
But I got no one else to turn to (here we go again with Slash apparently being lonely)
If I end up getting screwed
I might as well get screwed by you (well, he did end up getting screwed by her )

@money honey Hi and welcome

7 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

lol @ Beggars being about Axl. 

its pretty hilarious to think about Slash falling to pieces and not being able to get out of bed because Axl is promised to a wealthy man.

its almost like thinking This I Love is about Slash 

Yeah, that's why I always have to laugh when people suggest Beggars is about Axl It's like they've never heard anything but the chorus of that song lol.

11 hours ago, Blackstar said:

- Good To Be Alive: to me this is most likely about Axl as well. Which parts do you find strange?

 

13 hours ago, Frey said:

I agree that the first three are most likely about Axl.

About Good To Be Alive, I never listened to that one much, but I can see it being about Axl. What's strange about it?

You told me you're an orphan
The same old standard line
Then when we moved in together
All you did was moan and cry
Talkin' like you'd make it
On life's big movie screen
I had to say I loved you
Just to try and keep the peace

This entire bit here for example. Assuming we're supposed to take these lines literally, I think they fit better with some random woman than with Axl.

- Axl told Slash he was an orphan? Doubtful. Back when they first met and were really close, Axl was still in his "Daddy is my best friend" phase (or getting there). Though it's possible he said something like that later to him during the 90s I guess...

- But then again the 90s wouldn't fit with the time line proposed in the song: "Then when we moved in together". Also, what would Slash be talking about here by him and Axl moving in together? Axl living with Slash's family for a while? Them all living in the storage space? "Then when we moved in together" sounds more like something two people (a couple) would do; moving in together into a new place. I know Axl supposedly had aspirations to do just that with Slash, but since that never worked out...

- All you did was moan and cry. That does sound like Axl, granted. And how Slash would probably describe Axl rambling about his feelings if he was in a less charitable mood.

- "Talkin' like you'd make it on life's big movie screen" Seems weird that he would criticize Axl for that when they all had the same dream (and when they did indeed make it). Sounds more like these countless girls who come to L.A. with hopes of being an actress or a model or something, but then they never make it and end up as strippers or porn stars (just like all the girls they used to hang out with; Adriana Smith, etc.)

- "I had to say I loved you just to try and keep the peace". Also sounds more like something a nagging girlfriend would demand. I can't really see Slash feeling pressured (or Axl demanding from Slash) to tell him that he loves him. Whether in private or while talking to the media.

I agree with @giuls and @Asia, the song doesn't really seem all that romantic to me, but definitely very emotional and sad.

And yes, I do think it's about Axl, because the lyrics fit perfectly.

I think the song describes their relationship in the mid 90s really well- they couldn't agree with each other on anything anymore, they were constantly fighting, constantly "back and forth again". And then they had their break-up and were completely separated.

Now you've slipped away (Axl's gone into hiding)
And found a place to stay (high up there on his hill, with Beta and TB)
Who do I congratulate?
But I'm happy for you (Slash's happy for Axl that he has found some kind of home and family, but he's not particularly thrilled himself?)

Where are you today? (...a question millions of GNR fans have asked themselved as well during the "mystery years")
I sense that you're afraid (Slash was probably right about that)
And I don't know what to do (Slash often didn't seem to know what to do when it comes to Axl...)

I miss you but what does it change?
This confusion feels the same (he misses Axl, but the situation hasn't improved and it would still be a mess)
Forget you and let you leave
But I'm still thinkin' it through (he's still not sure if leaving was the right decision)

It's been the conflict between us
That's kept me from sinking before (it's like Slash has talked about before- the tension between them sparked their creativity and led them to create awesome music and kept them busy)
You drove me crazy and I let you ("Unbeknownst to him, Axl's craziness drives me crazier than it does him")
Come, do it some more ( he'd rather have Axl driving him crazy some more, rather than be without him)

Put the past to bed
We've done it before (they've had so many fights and problems in the past and always managed to get through them, so why not again?)

Now we're back and forth again
Can we help this pointless thing?
Swingin' like a hinge
To the place we always meet (all four lines describing their troubled relationship in the mid 90s, all their disagreements, etc.)

There's nothing to say
Except loneliness is strange (*)
'Cause you wear the face
That I never can leave (Slash knows he will forever be associated with Axl and GNR and will never be able to escape that. He even said something like that while still in the band once)

And I know you're gonna call (he was so right about that one )
'Cause you know just where I'll be
Once you come and find me here
I'll be happy for me (Slash does indeed seem pretty happy now that Axl has found him again )

So happy to be not alone anymore
We've done it before

Now we're back and forth again
Can we help this pointless thing?
Swingin' like a hinge
To the place we always meet

It's such a shame how little things
Can change your minds (all their dumb little fights and disagreements, the leeches, etc.)
Don't just sit there filing your nails
And passing the time (he feels Axl is wasting his time hiding away from the world)

I can't let you bottle it up
And take it too far (... he did let him bottle it up and take it too far though... )
Carrying all of that weight
Is the hardest part (**)

Now we're back and forth again
Can we help this pointless thing?
Swingin' like a hinge
To the place we always meet

Back and forth again
Back and forth again
Back and forth again

* This line is the only one that's a bit strange to me. Would Slash really be lonely without Axl? He has/had other people. But then again, to the ICP people he did seem like a lonely, desperate guy who was looking for someone to hang out with. And Slash and Duff did joke about not having any friends during the end of one of the making of the videos, after they couldn't find anyone to go out drinking with them or something lol.

** "Carrying all of that weight / Is the hardest part" I don't know whether he's referring to Axl (Axl carrying the weight of the band alone on his shoulders) or himself there. If he's referring to himself it might be a reference to another line on the album: "Is it me or you / Who carries the weight / To deal with your pain" (from Take It Away, another song that's almost certainly about Axl). That line seems to be Slash -once again- saying that he is the main person affected by Axl's problems. It's "Axl's craziness drives me crazier than it does him" all over again, just using different words. It makes me kind of want to whack Slash with a stick.

To sum up, I think these songs on the first Snakepit album are about Axl:

What Do You Want To Be?
Take It Away
Back And Forth Again

Then there's these two:

Good To Be Alive
Beggars & Hangers On

These often are claimed to be about Axl, but the only thing in Beggars & Hangers On that I could see being about Axl is the chorus, the rest of the song doesn't fit. Good To Be Alive... I know there are a couple of lines in there that seem to be about Axl pretty obviously, but other parts of it also seem pretty strange if the song is supposed to be about Axl