Powderfinger
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Posts posted by Powderfinger
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3 hours ago, bikka said:
The contract has been posted on this forum a few years ago. The original partnership required that if a partner is thrown out or quits, the others HAVE to buy them out and that they lose any say in what happens to the brand. I suppose that legally it would be very inconvenient to make any decisions regarding ads, merch etc. if you have "left over" partners - so this kind of stipulations must be common in band contracts. The contract explained how the bought up shares would be split, etc. The version that was posted was the one that to this general terms added one exception - if Axl were to quit he would keep the name. When others would quit they would keep nothing but would get money for their share. (The share is not the same as royalties, which they have anyway for songwritting / performing credits). So as the story goes, Axl waited for the statute of limitations to pass, then quit the band, keeping the name. He then made another partnership - the newGnr - to which he invited Slash and Duff. As far as I remember Duff accepted, Slash declined. In effect there were 2 partnership and numerous lawsuits that regarded decision making about licensing etc - no wonder, as there were legally 2 partnerships that had a claim (one had rights to licensing of the original material, the other the name of the band), a tough nut to crack, but Axl must have had good lawyers that made the amendment to the old contract - it worked out perfect for him. (the version of the contract posted was used as evidence in one of the lawsuits)
So the story of Izzy's share is pretty simple - when quitting he HAD to sell his shares. Same goes for when Adler was sacked - they had to buy him out, although at that time his shares were worth much less probably. When Izzy left that must have already been a shit load of money.
One thing that is connected to this is the story of Izzy stepping in when Gilby broke his wrist. In interviews he said Alan Niven (his then manager) advised him to take the offer because GNR still owed him some money - I think that was probably part of his shares, because other stuff (i.e. royalties) would not necessarily be distributed by the partnership but by the publisher. So I assume that they couldn't afford to pay him out in one go and after 2 years he still didn't receive the full sum. Izzy said that he could either sue them (which would be lengthy) or come to an agreement about his guesting in place of Gilby. Which he apparently thought a better option. But if you read Slash and Axl interviews from after that period you can see how they were pissed that Izzy's guesting cost them so much money. It was the first time Axl complained that Izzy was so expensive. But those were not fees for playing, it was the debt they owed him, most probably for his share in the partnership. Now, Duff's point of view is very telling - he writes in his book that the second leg of UYI tour they hardly broke even as the fees for late shows, additional costs of crew, etc. ate all their income. As he writes, each memebr got some part of the income, but a part of it went to the band's shared assets. He was pissed that the band didn't earn anything, while it was solely Axl's fault that they had to pay the additional costs. Now, that was precisely when Izzy guested and asked for his money. I imagine for Axl it must have been oh so painful, but then he was the culprit there... That's why I can't take his complains about the "Izzy cost" seriously.
Edit: One final note to those who claim that A/D/S were contributing to the partnership / putting effort in maintaining it, etc through out the years, while Izzy did nothing. They DIDN'T. The partnership is about the value of the GNR brand, decisions about licensing, etc. Taking part in lawsuits has nothing to do with it (and if you think they personally appeared in court to argue their contracts you're romanticizing). The only thing that can raise or at least maintain the value of a brand is delivering quality products year after year under that brand. None of them did that. Solo activity has no import for GNR brand. Axl's GNR tours and CD if anything have devalued the brand. Years of inactivity have for sure devalued the brand. Just imagine you were a Coca-Cola promotion manager - how much money would you be willing to pay to use Welcome to the jungle in an ad in 91? And how much in, say, 2013? Right now thanks to NITL tour the value is rising, but it is nowhere near what it was during the UYI tours.
In all, while he probably didn't know it, Izzy sold his shares at the peak of their worth... Savvy businessman he is
Thanks for this. Really good reply.
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On 2018-01-09 at 10:27 PM, Jadeder said:
IMO. I have never heard a guitar player compare so much to Slash's GNR live sound. Every nuance is there. I mean every single one
That’s unreal, you’re right about every nuance. Amazing.
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On 2018-01-09 at 5:51 AM, onurbayrak03 said:
this is their rocket queen cover. The vocals are fucking insane. And so are the rest of the band. Ya'll should check their other videos too. This is some good stuff
Hide this dude under the stage and have Axl mime.....
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17 hours ago, ludurigan said:
Really?! I had no idea!
The TRUE FACT is that Izzy cant tour and Izzy wont tour and Izzy wont commit and Izzy cant play and Izzy sold his partnership and... WOW, SO MUCH TRUTH!
Now do you remember when you used to say that Steven cant play?! Those were such great times, i miss them so much!
Please never stop sharing the truth on this board!
What’s the back story on Izzy selling his Partnership? I’ve seen this comment a few times in different posts, but I havent read any details. (It’s not that I don’t believe you, I’m just curious)
I do disagree with the “Izzy can’t tour” and “Izzy can’t play” He can certainly do both and did do both from 85-91. While also contributing heavily to the songwriting. The songs maketh the band. No songs = No need for a band, or a singer, otherwise you’re playing covers.
It appears you’re correct about won’t tour and I’m undecided about won’t commit.... I don’t know the terms or lack thereof, I don’t know if he’s being a dick or getting fucked by the other 3.
I mean, Izzy is Guns to me, his songs make up most of tunes I like best, but he also was a fucking heroin dealer.... It’s a certain kind of person who sells junk. It’s selling misery and death. (I don’t judge anyone, but that’s the reality, I’ve seen lots of it) So I can picture him possibly being cutthroat and selfish in business dealings.
I mean, say you’re in a band during a hugely successful era. You were an integral part of that band - vocally, musically, it’s songwriting, it’s image.... You know that, (as a result of having made a career, and had an entire life setup financially) you were popular, sold shitloads, and thus had a huge fan base....
After having that life, would it fucking kill you to go out, maybe not make as much cash as you wanted to, but do it partly for the people who appreciate your talent and part in that band... I mean fuck it like, do 5 shows, do 1 even! Give the people what they want. It might even be fun for a few gigs and then piss off into the sunset.... Avacados don’t change man, you won’t miss anything 😂
So I’m undecided about his motives, despite the fact I think he was the spirit of Guns....
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RIP Fast Eddie... I gave No Sleep Till Hammersmith a spin this evening in memory.
“This is for Me and Eddie, it’s called No Class”
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3 hours ago, Nikki_Sixx said:
Izzy = GNR
This.
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What If Guns decided to record some songs, but they all did their parts in their home studios! UYI III starts now!
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My Sympathies to the Canter family. RIP
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5 hours ago, HollyWoodRose84 said:
I think the next album is going to feature a lot of people. I don’t think Slash will be rewriting other people’s parts. My 2 cents is DJ is in LA recording parts to the new album which will feature him, robin, Slash and maybe even Bucket. Guns n Roses is more of an entity than a band at this point, has been for quite some time and I think it will be that way moving forward
This sounds like some punishment.... Like water boarding..... or playing rock music to prisoners in Guantanamo.......
DEAR LORD NO...NOT FUCKING ASHBA PLAYING OVER SLASH.... STOP...... I'LL TELL YOU EVERYTHING I KNOW JUST MAKE IT STOP.....
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1 hour ago, BangoSkank said:
LOL okay...
Look at the sales and chart positions of Appetite, UYI 1&2 and look at the tours that went with those albums, now look at Chinese and it's tour and then look at NITL .... Numbers don't lie. Huge with Slash and Duff not so huge without.
Plus, bollocks to all that hanging around for hours before the band came on stage. It's been great that they were able to hit the stage on time almost night during the tour. What excuses the way it was before now?
Who's gonna hang around to see Axl N' Friends for 2 hours when they saw the real thing 2-3 years ago....
The original Guns released more material than nu guns have, and the potential for new material being released is greater with Duff and Slash back in the band. I think that material would also be more interesting.
Listening to Slash's interview with Niki Sixx he sounded positive about the whole tour and talked about how addictions keep you caught in a cycle with certain behaviours and angers and this keeps people from growing and once he cleaned up, his dealings with people had evolved.
I think that all 3 of those guys would be an evolved songwriting team also, from what they were 25 years ago, and look what they wrote then! I would love to hear what they came up with. (In my head it's GNRs Exile On Main St) 😂
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If Axl N' Others start touring again as GNR they won't fill much more than 5-600 venues. Who's gonna wanna see that after everyone got what they wanted!!
I understand that people like different lineups etc. But it was never Guns after Slash left and Axl should have changed the band name.... The reception to Chinese was Lukewarm. If it had been an Axl solo / new band album, I really think it would have been approached with a more open mind by critics,media and fans.
Before the reunion people have had to buy tickets for 4-5 bands, just to see Axl sing in one band, Slash, Duff & Matt in another, Slash Solo in another, and Duff Sing in a further group.....
This was the only way to hear these guys play these songs. Its been like this for 20 years and although all the above have their merits, NITL proved the public want one particular configuration above everything else on offer...
Has there ever been a poll of the lineups to see which is the most popular thus far?
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On 2017-12-28 at 10:32 AM, EvH said:
Fuck the haters, the big band jam during Move to the City was one of the best part of the UYI concerts.
Ah it wasn't though ! 😂
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6 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:
Oasis were bigger in Britain and Ireland than GN'R were. They were at the forefront of an entire musical movement (Britpop) - them and Blur. They were ubiquitous in the 1990s.
PS
I'm saying this as an objective witness as I was never their biggest fan myself, although I do like them. My favourite Gallagher will always be Rory.
I grew up in Ireland and saw oasis on the definitely maybe & morning glory tours, and they were massive. 250,000 people shows. Massive stadium gigs, multiple sold out arena shows.
But that was mostly Irish/English gigs only. Much as I loved them Oasis were never the global phenomenon that Guns was.
I do think if they reunited in the next year or two, it might be better timing than GNRs reunion, I know there were lots of factors with Guns, but it would have been a better sounding reunion in 2006 than it is 10 years later.
If you lived it, it was a fucking great time during those britpop years. The last Hurrah for rock n roll....
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I think I read somewhere that either Owen Morris or McGee or Mark Coyle made Noel cut the solo in Live Forever because he thought it sounded a bit too Slash....
From 94-96 that band released 2 brilliant albums, the singles had B sides better than most bands albums and they were killer live. Seeing them live on Both tours and in between we're amazing gigs. Epic indoors and outdoors.
(Better than Guns in Slane '92) 😕
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Izzys guitar style was sloppy rock n roll.
IE. perfectly played rock n roll, loose and choppy.
His solos, that we definitely know of, are in a punky rock n roll style. The little bits he does in Jungle, his stuff on Brownstone, his solo on Nightrain, the muted funky riffing on Paradise City, his chimes on the intro to Civil War.
The DTJ solo is 100% Slash. It's a Gibson Guitar, it's a Slash style solo, it has his sound, his tone, his feel, his pace, he also played similar style solos in multiple other songs, covers and originals.
I think it's best in a band if shot is split equally between everyone. I've been listening to The Doors a lot recently, and Morrisons words and voice were unique, Kriegers guitar style, playing blues and flamenco was unique, the freak on organ and bass keyboard was playing the impossible and the drummer followed the singer and used the drums as an instrument, punctuating the singers words.
They split everything in 4, as they all brought something unique that clicked together to make amazing music.
Guns should have been the same, the original 5 were so unique and each contributed to the Sound and style of the songs that band played and the energy they had as a unit.
Its a balls that Slash writes melodies like Solos on Estranged and November Rain and it's not considered his song. He was part of it.
Duff also.... The Breakdown on Jungle, the intro to Its So Easy, and most of all on the intro to Sweet Child Of Mine. Really melodic stuff from a Bass Player.
Izzy for all the reasons I said above and his songwriting that has stood the test of time, which not all Guns stuff has.
Steven - Cowbell. It was only cool when he played it. The Bo Diddley Beat on Brownestone.
I just think of them as Guns N Roses songs.
(And the Songs always sounded best live)
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2 hours ago, Order of Nine said:
I think the original is G, D, am. Guns do G, D, Cmaj
Relative major
I think guns play the intro and chorus with G-D-C but they play G-D-Am during the verses...... I'll need to pull out the guitar when I get home to check...
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On 2017-12-21 at 4:49 PM, The Real McCoy said:
Bob Dylan sucks. Period.
Listen to any of the bootlegs from Dylan's 66 tour. The electric sets were punkish 10 years early. Great delivery and a great band behind him.
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My Latest thoughts on this are it's better now than when I heard it 25 years ago. I loved it then also! It's just a killer tune, my only whine is it's not long enough!!
What would an "best of izzy" gnr album look like..... one where he is the main vocalist. I love his delivery.
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Is it fucked I like these as much as that pretenders cover? 😂
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it had to be September or after as I was in secondary school, and living in Ireland our gaff didn't have the English channels at this point so I had 2 friends record it for me in case one of them fucked up
I watched that video over and over.... No Aerosmith, but yes to Lenny. It was DEFINITELY broadcast on a Friday night, i remember that for certain as I had to wait till Monday to get the VHS off my buddies.... 
The other thing i can remember about that broadcast was some tyre manufacturer was using "Venus in Furs" by the velvet underground as the soundtrack to their ad. It was the first time I had heard the velvet underground. Man things were different then! I remember going to my uncle and asking him who the fuck sang this song "I could sleep a thousand years" (He knew)
Now hold your phone to the screen and it will retrieve everything you need to know about band or artist.......
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3 hours ago, ludurigan said:
working on izzys songs is always a great idea even when he is not around
hey, dont get me wrong, i understand that it would be pathetic to do it without izzy
but if they are gonna work on songs without izzy anyway, i much rather have them working on an izzy song than work on anything by those aliens
This broke my head.
1) Its a "good idea"
2) its a "pathetic idea"
3) but if they do the "pathetic idea"
4) its still a "better than anything by those aliens" idea
How could the band ever release new music with this as it's market..... It's a loose - loose, better than loosing to aliens situation for them. 🙂
IZZY STRADLIN (and MATT SORUM) show up at movie festival in Palm Springs
in GUNS N' ROSES - DISCUSSION & NEWS
Posted
Yeah, Because Better is superior to everything Izzy wrote and contributed to. You obviously know nothing about musicians..... Technically good guitar players do not always write great songs, whereas musicians write songs but might not be shredders. Your opinion is rubbish and proven to be by album sales alone. You need better drugs if you think Fortus has a place in GNR ahead of Izzy.