Mikey Whipwreck

The idea that Axl would consider making an album full of instrumentals composed by Ashba and Bumblefoot is even more ridiculous in retrospect than it was back then. They were a solid live outfit at times, depending on whether Axl put any effort into preparing, but whenever DJ would talk about how he was writing demos for Guns you just had to shake your head

Better was part of the Village leaks as an instrumental called Three Dollar Pyramid so it dates back to at least 2000. I think RTB was there for about 2 years, late 2000 to sometime in 2002. Maybe someone else has more detail, but it's hard to say if Better was fleshed out from the Three Dollar demo under RTB, or after Axl and Caram took over. Bucket is all over it, so we can assume the instrumental was basically finished no later than 2003.

Don't disagree with this at all. But artists by nature are frequently impulsive, impractical and irresponsible. Giving someone like Axl a blank check and no real supervision, particularly in that era, was a recipe for disaster. There needed to be a few adults in the room. The right producer and a strong A&R could have gotten, at worst, a couple good albums out of this group between 2000-2006.

Better wasn't a hit though. It should have been. It probably would have been if the band and label made any effort to promote it. But the title track charted significantly higher even though they didn't bother chopping the intro in the version they sent to radio. I don't see how spending seven years and many millions more waiting for a song that wasn't even promoted was the right move. An album released in 2001 with CD and Street of Dreams as the main singles probably sells more than the 2008 album. Then they could have had follow up in 2004 or 2005 using Better as the lead single and they would have collectively sold millions more, established the new band as a viable creative entity and kept Robin and Bucket around longer instead of having to replace them with lesser talents. It never would have been as big as any lineup featuring Slash. But at least it could have been seen as more than a glorified cover band The reunion would have happened eventually no matter what, but the 1998-2004 iterations of the band should have accomplished a lot more

Did the versions of Sorry, If The World and Shacklers from Village have vocals or were they instrumentals? I never located the songs from that disc or discs We know Better vocals were recorded sometime between 2001 and 2005. Scraped and TIL album version could have been recorded any time between 2001 and 2007. The TIL remix that leaked sounds like Axl's 2009 or 2010 vocals but no way to be sure.

Hard Skool was released about 6 weeks after Absurd. Hopefully something similar happens here.

Buckethead is talented enough that you tolerate his eccentricities and odd behavior. Outside the context of GNR he's demonstrated that he eats, sleeps, breathes music. He wants to write, record and release new songs. And prior to his health issues he was consistently on tour. You are not going to keep him engaged by having him in the studio re-recording parts for the same song over and over again. I have little doubt that he would have stayed in the band longer and been a productive member had they completed the 2002 tour and released a new album shortly after that. The stories of him going MIA and being unreachable came after the plug got pulled on the tour and it was obvious the album was not coming anytime soon

I'm not sure whose idea RTB was. But he certainly didn't seem to help the process. The best "inside baseball" article I can recall is the one featuring Tom Zutaut, who came aboard in 2001 after RTB was already involved. He tells the story of how Axl had been asking RTB for 6 months to get the drums on one track to sound like Smells Like Teen Spirit and they couldn't get it right. So Zutaut stepped out, bought a copy of Nevermind, brought it back and played it for them. Problem solved. Or how they were spending $75,000 a month renting gear that hadn't been touched for 3 years. Nobody thought to return it until Zutaut got there. Situations like that, there's plenty of blame to go around. It shows the label had no clue what they were doing and the producer was there just to collect a check. Axl deserves a huge amount of the blame for the endless delays especially from 2002 and beyond, no question. But fundamentally, Tommy is correct, especially in retrospect. How many of the songs recorded from 1998 to 2000 that ended up on CD were significantly improved by all the tinkering and re-recording? TWAT was really the only one, due to Bucket's solo which really makes the song. And his stuff on Prostitute brought it up too. But they would have been better served putting out a 12 track album with the more aggressive industrial, nu metal tinged songs that would have been better received in 2000 or 2001 and done a follow up a few years later. It may not have set the world on fire but it would have done alright and would not have had all the baggage attached to it

Here's the Tommy interview I mentioned where he talked about the negative impact Jimmy Iovine and RTB had on CD https://slpmode.com/a-v-club-interview-tommy-stinson/

Tommy had an interview about this a while back. Basically that the band thought the album was ready and any additional work or cleanup could be handled in post production. But the label thought it should be more epic or something, so RTB was brought in and he had everyone meticulously re-record all their parts, which seemed to hurt morale as everyone in the band thought it was a huge waste of time

It seems like you had various cliques. Richard, Robin and Tommy are all still friends Paul and Dizzy were Axl guys but Dizzy seems the type to get along with everyone Brain and Bucket were close friends before Guns and still are Pitman seemed very close to Axl and worked directly with him in the studio more than most Add in Tommy and Pitman seeming to have issues with alcohol. Buckethead existing in his own world. And Axl absent a lot of the time. It's no surprise there were some toxic dynamics there Ron was not welcomed with open arms by Tommy, Richard and Robin, that's for sure. They probably thought he was unnecessary. Seemed like that calmed down though. The biggest thing with Ron that is now overlooked is he got severely messed up in that car wreck. He was in an incredible amount of pain and started self medicating with painkillers and booze. That's when he seemed to get very bitter and negative. I think he felt like he was coerced into returning to the road earlier than he wanted to and then taken for granted. Can't say I blame him, he was put in a bad position that was probably a nightmare for him to deal with

I think the larger issue is not that they're old but that they've been widely available online for years prior to the release. The freshness and excitement of new music is severely diminished If The General kicks ass I don't think anyone will care that it's old. But if we'd had the BucketFinck version since 2019 the response would be very different at least among the superfans, who realistically are the only ones that still care if GNR releases new music in 2023

I distinctly remember seeing a screenshot of an email like this about 10 years ago. I misremembered SOG being on there, but I believe this is snippet is what I saw. MSL was cagey and had his own agenda, so it doesn't surprise me that he didn't release the full list of song names or the actual screenshot. But this may well have been his source file. I feel like I saw it a year or two after he revealed those song names It's been so long though, and there was so much BS floating around back then, it's hard to remember definitive details

I'll back you on this. I distinctly remember seeing this screenshot many years before the Village leaks. 2013-2015 and 2016-2021, I stopped checking the forums with any regularity, but I remember seeing this about 10 years ago Would not be surprised if this was the source document MSL used when he dropped Tonto and Going Down as unreleased song titles

MSL mentioned Cuban Skies, Going Down, Tonto among others if I remember correctly. At least two of those were confirmed to be real. But the email screenshot surfaced some time after that, with a few additional song titles listed

True, should have said withheld or set aside for a future album. I hope it gets a release, it was my favorite unreleased track from those sessions along with Perhaps

Thanks! I stand corrected on SoG being on there. So either was discarded or is one of the other unheard ones (Monstrocity?) Definitely don't think it's The General, based on The General being described as a Brain song and according to the Village track list SOG was dated 3/27/00 which was the same month Brain joined the band

Does anyone have the CD2 tracklist that's a screenshot of an early 2008 email from Axl? I've seen it on here multiple times but can't locate it at the moment Anyway, that proved to be legitimate (100% remember seeing that circulating around 10 years ago, everyone thought it was fake but previously unmentioned songs like Perhaps and Tonto were on there) and I'm pretty sure State of Grace and The General were both listed on there

Amazing what some basic promotion can do It's also a better, and catchier, song than the other two which helps

I never said Axl was in the right, I said I can see him perceiving this as a slight and being upset Not sure what Detox cost, never seen it listed anywhere, but CD is nowhere near the most expensive album ever. Michael Jackson's Invincible cost over $30 million

This is a good comparison. Both bands had relatively brief but incredibly successful runs at the top and imploded due to egos, creative differences and substance abuse. Axl and Billy have a lot in common as well in terms of their backgrounds and sometimes contentious relationships with the press, bandmates and fans The biggest difference is Billy writes, records and releases a lot of music and is not afraid to empty the vaults

Tend to agree with this theory. Dr. Dre's Detox album was considered the hip hop version of Chinese Democracy, except that it was never released and was eventually scrapped altogether. I can see Axl being upset that Jimmy Iovine cut off his funding and gave him the cold shoulder, but continued to support Dr. Dre financially and otherwise under similar circumstances

It was soundchecked at RIR 2011. Possibly elsewhere too

Based on what we know about how CD was recorded, all of the instrumental tracks could easily be isolated and removed via Pro Tools. Robin's leads and licks are gone from the rest of the song, so that portion being left in there is certainly intentional. As others have said, probably a gesture of respect to Robin for his work on the song

My speculative guess is that it's a half truth. I do believe Axl wanted to get a second album out a year or two after CD. Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel. But by early 2009 he was publicly bashing the label for what he viewed as a botched rollout where promises supposedly weren't kept. He and management probably wanted assurances of certain promotional budgets and marketing plans that were unrealistic based on the state of the music industry and the level of demand for a non-reunion GNR album in 2010 or 2012.