Why do people hate technically advanced guitarists?

[KingsPowerSteel]

Virtuosos sound like they've spent way too many years with a guitar teacher and practicing scales in their room most of the time.

Yngwie Malmsteen for example never had a guitar lesson. He had piano and violin lessons I believe, and when he picked up his guitar, he just used what he knew about music from there.

Paul Gilbert had some guitar teacher, though he just had some regular one and his uncle, Jimi Kidd, a blues guitarist, sometimes taught him stuff as well. He would also go and see local bands and then go home and play what he just saw. When he was 18, he applied for some guitar college, at the age of 19, he already was a teacher there.

Or Steve Vai. He is said to have taken his guitar even to the cinema.

Chris Broderick is said to have played during summer 14 hours a day. He'd get up early, play 5 hours classical guitar, then 5 hours electric guitar, 2 hours piano and 2 hours violin.

Of course it's a huge amount of practising, though as you can see with Yngwie, you can do it without teacher.

But the point is, guitar playing is most likely the more or less only thing they had been doing when they were young, so I just think they have a huge connection with their guitar. I don't think they practiced too much, because you can only get good and be able to use your full potential if you practice as much as possible.

[FunkyMonk]

You'd think thay with all that practicing they could make good music, wouldn't you?

Edited November 8, 2008 by FunkyMonk

[Shuffle]

It's because most of them can't write good songs. Everybody loves Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen.

I think this is what it comes down to...

[KingsPowerSteel]

You'd think thay with all that practicing they could make good music, wouldn't you?

Well, they do:

Paul Gilbert - Metal Dog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zXMR2yc8E

Edited November 8, 2008 by KingsPowerSteel

[gabrielsevenn7]

I think Virtousos tend to over analyze what they are doing and are essentially playing for each other. That is the impression I get when I read their interviews, look at their lessons, etc.

Plus, more simple songs tend to sound better. I am talking from a rhythm perspective, in this regard. Some are able to pull off complex solos over simple progressions that fit within the context of a song. Usually, a simple minor pentatonic just fits.

Maybe there is room for more interpretation with fewer notes. If you only use three to five notes in a solo it leaves something open, it leaves room. When you use seven or more it just gets crowded. It takes away some of the imagination. It is overload and just goes in one ear and out the other. Now, if you change over chord changes and are still using three to five notes over particular chords, that opens up room to add to the total number of notes. But you really only add one or maybe two notes over the chord change while taking away other notes to make the new ones fit.

I think theory is a good starting tool to explore some new options. I think it is a block though when a player becomes a slave to it. I think the virtuosos are slaves to theory.

On a side note, I have been trying to listen to a little jazz lately....I like some of it if it is done right. I can't explain it. But most of it seems like it is just three or four players playing solos at the same time. I hear the bass guy going off to who knows where while the drummer is just playing wacky beat that isn't really going with anything at all. Then, there is a horn guy playing a solo over the top of whatever the bass guy is doing.......

I just thought of that because the virtuoso talk reminded me of it. Kind of the same thing going on.

[Graeme]

One thing's for sure, guitarists are the only musicians in the world who have this kind of stigma surrounding their skill. You'll never get a virtuoso pianist or violinist being criticised for having no emotion once they get to a certain level.

On the other hand I do see where some people are coming from with the fact that sometimes the notes come in flurries too fast for people to really appreciate what's going on. Example, Bumblefoot's "Guitars Suck" When played at its usual tempo, yes it sounds great just for the sheer technical brilliance of Ron, however I doubt many people on here connect to it, I watched a video where he slowed it down and it allowed the individual notes and the melody really to shine through and something i'd have previously called "crazy"I'd ended up calling "beautiful" (Guitars Suck actually has a gorgeous slow bluesy bit in the middle anyways but i doubt many of the "shred haters" here would have given it enough time to realise it) The video where he slows it down and you get to hear how good it really is can be found here if anyone's interested.

So yeah, I love virtuoso guitarists and have a lot of respect for anyone who's dedicated enough to get to that skill level. But I prefer when they use it to write beautiful music rather than just tech exercises. A brilliant example is this Joe Satriani- Love Thing Anyone who says that lacks emotion needs their ears syringed.

[FunkyMonk]

You'd think thay with all that practicing they could make good music, wouldn't you?

Well, they do:

Paul Gilbert - Metal Dog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zXMR2yc8E

Sorry buddy, but as far as songs go, that kinda sucked.

I like virtuosos that play normal music, like Bumblefoot. He may be mindblowingly good, but he knows when to just play normal music, and he does it well.

[Graeme]

I think technique and melody are best fused at 1;25 in this video. That blows me away every time I hear it.

[Zint]

Virtuosos sound like they've spent way too many years with a guitar teacher and practicing scales in their room most of the time.

But the point is, guitar playing is most likely the more or less only thing they had been doing when they were young, so I just think they have a huge connection with their guitar. I don't think they practiced too much, because you can only get good and be able to use your full potential if you practice as much as possible.

Maybe...

But I prefer the guys who practiced to the point where they were shit hot and couldn't wait to get their asses in a rock band and express themslves.

The guys who chose to keep practicing till they couldn't see their fingers move went beyond what I find appealing about rock music.

[Zint]

One thing's for sure, guitarists are the only musicians in the world who have this kind of stigma surrounding their skill. You'll never get a virtuoso pianist or violinist being criticised for having no emotion once they get to a certain level.

That's because at the heart of rock n roll lays reckless abandon.

Classically trained pianists or violinists are about perfection.

[aidlook]

I myself rather listen to music you have to concentrate on and listen to a few times to understand it, because these guys really have understood the whole thing that is called music.

Getting a little pretentious here maybe?...but then again you're a fan of Yngwie

Understand it? I think the part that you're not getting here is that all the million hours of practicing in the world don't make these people better artists.

[jkdrummer]

Alot of the time people say they have no feeling but that is not entirely true, obviously there are some amazing guitarists that just play like robots and dont put in any feeling, but others put in so much feeling into what they are playing. I think alot of people are jelous, and obviously they are not going to admit that instead they just bad mouth these guitarists. Not all though everybody has a different taste in music and to some people the noise of a guitar several hours could be a nightmare, for others it could be a treat, its just peoples preferences.

[James Bond]

No passion,no soul,no spontanaeity.

I find them very robotic.

How can they have no passion when they basically spend their whole lives dedicated to this instrument?

"Unstudied" musicians spend their whole lives dedicated to this instrument as well.

Slash for example,learned his chops from a second hand "how to" book.

The end result...Slash's playing connects with me,I get where he's coming from.

I feel the passion he pours into his music.

Virtuosos sound like they've spent way too many years with a guitar teacher and practicing scales in their room most of the time.

It comes off as music with no passion to my ears.I'm not saying they aren't good musicians,clearly they are.

But what they offer musically does nothing for me.

The solo in the Stones' Sympathy For The Devil connects with me far greater than anything I've heard from a virtuoso.

It sounds like the devil picked up a Strat and started to wail.

The Malmsteen's of the world are too perfect.

It does nothing for me.

Well said, I completely agree.

I strongly disagree with the original post where it says the average rock player just starts playing guitar for chicks. I am no virtuoso on guitar, and that is not the reason I started playing.

[kevdo242]

Dragonforce kinda ruined shred for me. Vai's awesome (Attitude Song especially) but I just hate shredders who do fuck all else.

[Big Boy Sixxx]

its fucking impressive but theres no real feeling to it. one slow bend in the right place can do more than 12 notes squeezed in there

[Crotch Monster]

Don't you guys think this is brilliance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpjmdpWxMhg

I think it's good. Who are some other musicians that are similar?

[jkdrummer]

Building the Church:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp8ZLbuUt1w

For the love of God:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9IrWyZ0KZuk

Both amazing songs by Vai, shows that these musicians actually do put alot of feeling into their songs and are able to create good music.

[KingsPowerSteel]

When I saw Gilbert yesterday, he did Hendrix' Red House.

Here's pro shot video of him doing it in 1991:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=miLvfZ4DupE

It's available on his Tribute To Hendrix CD.

[moreblack]

I dig Paul Gilbert, but generally there's nothing worse than shredders trying to cover Hendrix...

[gunsnmotley]

depends on the shredder really...you cant tell me Bucketheads solo at the end of TWAT has no feel....or eddie van halens solos...

[Projected]

No matter how many funny faces Vai makes throughout "For the Love of God", or how much whammy bar he uses - NONE, I repeat, NONE of his material will ever get remotely close to the feeling and the vibe that I get from Slash's guitar work in let's say... Estranged.... Or Street Child.

For the Love of God does nothing to me. It's another cool track with some fast guitar work. I forget it a minute after I hear it. Slash's solo on NR, Estranged and Street Child are bone-chilling.

[PappyTron]

lmao @ "street child".

[bt88]

lmao @ "street child".

\

I dont want this thread to get locked but whoever did the solo on one of the unmentionable songs off CD epitomizes the idea of emotional playing. TIL

[Pegasus]

No passion,no soul,no spontanaeity.

I find them very robotic.

100% agreed.

No passion,no soul,no spontanaeity.

I find them very robotic.

How can they have no passion when they basically spend their whole lives dedicated to this instrument?

There's a difference between having a passion for your instrument, and making actual passionate music.

I'll take people like BB King over any shredder any day.

True, id much rather listen to 50's and 60's blues music than stupid shredders. Especially the ones that shread all the time and are full of themselves.

[Yamisonic]

Well, it's because of the music they play. If a million-notes-per-second solo fits into a song, then it's probably a lame song. Ask Keith.