Fucking Suits

[Gryfon]

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.

There's also a negative side.

Being a fan, speaking out against badly handled situations with 1st hand facts, having your own opinion, or getting stabbed in the back by the forum you supported and the man in your avatar must be surely be a few of the possible negative sides.

If Axl truely and legally is Guns N' Roses since >1998 then he has nobody to blame but himself and trying to punch ghosts won't help. Neither will defending him blindly like a persecuted Martyr. Its a band(or was) and not a Branch Davidian cult. However the housekeeper and her son who have rubbed the name of Guns N' Roses in the dirt unexpectantly with goofs and made thier own headlines several times might prove otherwise.

Managers, PR & record labels are there to release music and make money and they will jump at the chance just like any other business. If theres a 2month or 2 year delay between music being delivered and sold on shelves, I'm pretty sure it wont be market analysists waiting for a special date while Axl twiddles his thumbs in anticipation.

If this thread was about any current filed law suits preventing Axl from making music then please post/PM your links saying so, I'll apologise unreservedly if i'm wrong. Even demoted moderators would have closed this thread for good reason on page 2

Edited May 2, 2010 by Gryfon

[gnr-dave]

13th biggest selling album in 2008 worldwide, it managed that in a space of 2 months. That's a big acheivement in my book.

In regards to the 2nd album, we won't know until it comes out I guess. There are a huge amount of variables involved, promotion, record company participation, a hit single, video etc. It makes it all the more exciting in my book.

Even Ron said in his interview on this very board, that CD was a failure based on the number of sales it was projected to sell

"Well, it would have been impossible to sell the amount anyone was expecting, because after so many years, after so many talks, hypes and all the "boom", how could we manage to do that? Plus the fact that CDs don't sell today as they use to do in the past. Considering this and the fact that we didn't launch any clip, didn't go on any TV program, did only a few interviews and went on tour only a year after it was launched, the 3 or 4 million it sold is pretty good. Of course, if you compare to what was expected, it's a huge failure."

Twisting words.....What a shame, I thought you were better than that Dave.

I did not twist anything, he said its a huge failure compared to what was expected.

Is that not what Ron said??? I am pretty sure I did not twist anything.

Oh I used projected instead of expected? You do know the meaning is the same right?

Edited May 2, 2010 by gnr-dave

[ITW 2012]

I interpreted as Ron saying that it did well considering they didn't make any appearances to promote it.

[gnr-dave]

I interpreted as Ron saying that it did well considering they didn't make any appearances to promote it.

It would not have mattered if they promoted it more.

DJs tried playing it on radio, and no one wanted to hear the songs, most of the callers after the song were bashing the songs.

Not to mention they did have some promotion with myspace. The label did their part Axl did not do his.

All the promotion in the world would not have helped this album. It was supposed to be the most anticipated album EVER, and no one cared. That was all the promotion it needed.

The reason Axl didnt promote CD is really single. He doesnt promote and it doesnt do well (which it didnt) he has a built in excuse why it didnt sell as well as expect but if he did out a ton of promotion into it, and it still didint sell well as expect, he would have no excuses.

If CD was as good as everyone helped it would have sold tons as expected regardless of how much or little CD was promoted.

Edited May 2, 2010 by gnr-dave

[wasted]

The thing is it did sell well for today's market and it did get promotion. Whatever they did seems to be working, or maybe CD is too good of a record not to rise to the top.

[D..]

or maybe CD is too good of a record not to rise to the top.

This man. However, I think it's more complicated than that.

Everyone could understand Appetite. It was at the same time obvious and awesome.

I think Chinese Democracy is a bit more sophisticated, it's music for an elite of people, few people can understand it I guess.

[ITW 2012]

There's a lot going on. You have to take the time to get into CD. It's sort of like The Fragile in that respect.

[wasted]

or maybe CD is too good of a record not to rise to the top.

This man. However, I think it's more complicated than that.

Everyone could understand Appetite. It was at the same time obvious and awesome.

I think Chinese Democracy is a bit more sophisticated, it's music for an elite of people, few people can understand it I guess.

I think there's just as big a audience out there for it, which includes AFD fans, but not all.

It should interest all classic rock fans and people who like 90s rock in general. But really people who liked AFD, bought Nevermind, Angel Dust, Dirt, Superunknown, Blood Sugar SM, Follow the Leader, Rob Zombie, Holywood? If people like SCOM why not SOD, if liked Nov Rain why not TWAT/Catcher/This I Love?, if Don't Cry why not Sorry, Live and Let Dies why not If the World? Civil War why not Madgascar?

Just cos it has modern infleunces and isn't just 4x4 punk rock production, not that that was ever GNR is the first place.

[droezle]

...............comparing ChiDem to AFD or even the UYI cd's is useless as it is not 1988 or 1991 anymore and GnR is not on top of the world anymore.........Axl is well into his 40's and NuGnR is now a classic rock band..........like it or not the album has run its course and is now discount cutout bin material.......If Axl wants to avoid becoming a "where is he now" victim he needs to put out some new music now before he tours the U.S. and it better have a hit single or two or it is doomed to sell less than ChiDem did..................

Agreed, i couldn't say it better.

[wasted]

I disagree.

CD is a worldwide hit, just wondering why some people don't like it. I can't see much difference between it and UYI/AFD apart from production values.

[droezle]

I disagree.

CD is a worldwide hit, just wondering why some people don't like it. I can't see much difference between it and UYI/AFD apart from production values.

I don't realy care if CD is a worldwide hit, i only care about the fact if i like it or not.

[FuddMckagan]

I disagree.

CD is a worldwide hit, just wondering why some people don't like it. I can't see much difference between it and UYI/AFD apart from production values.

I wouldn't go that far. It definitely garnered more interested internationally rather than the US, but it pretty much faded out in most other countries in about 2 months. I wouldn't put it in the "hit" category at all.

[wasted]

I disagree.

CD is a worldwide hit, just wondering why some people don't like it. I can't see much difference between it and UYI/AFD apart from production values.

I don't realy care if CD is a worldwide hit, i only care about the fact if i like it or not.

So you're just saying CD failed cos you don't like it? Fair enough.

I was just wondering why you didn't like it, as it has all the hallmarks of a classic GNR record. You don't have to have a reason just interested.

[wasted]

I disagree.

CD is a worldwide hit, just wondering why some people don't like it. I can't see much difference between it and UYI/AFD apart from production values.

I wouldn't go that far. It definitely garnered more interested internationally rather than the US, but it pretty much faded out in most other countries in about 2 months. I wouldn't put it in the "hit" category at all.

sales do tail off these days, it's all about first week sales, 1 mill being a smash hit like Kanye, it's the new industry standard.

A hit is just a record that sold pretty well. CD went to No.1 in a lot of countries. I think in the rock market it was one of biggest selling albums of 2008 and has kept on selling while they've been on tour?

I'm more interested in why people don't like it, as it's pretty much the same as other GNR records. What's not to like?

[FuddMckagan]

sales do tail off these days, it's all about first week sales, 1 mill being a smash hit like Kanye, it's the new industry standard.

A hit is just a record that sold pretty well. CD went to No.1 in a lot of countries. I think in the rock market it was one of biggest selling albums of 2008 and has kept on selling while they've been on tour?

I'm more interested in why people don't like it, as it's pretty much the same as other GNR records. What's not to like?

It's a million times different than AFD, and really different to the UYI's. It's not the same as other GnR records because....well, it's completely different.

[Graveyard]

It's a million times different than AFD, and really different to the UYI's. It's not the same as other GnR records because....well, it's completely different.

not the same because its different? wow, what a wondeful and thoughtful analysis. whats a scholar like you doing on a guns n roses forum?

[FuddMckagan]

It's a million times different than AFD, and really different to the UYI's. It's not the same as other GnR records because....well, it's completely different.

not the same because its different? wow, what a wondeful and thoughtful analysis. whats a scholar like you doing on a guns n roses forum?

Because my students leave class at 4pm, and after I've marked all their psychology papers I like to kick back a little.

Aren't professors allowed to have some downtime occasionally?

[wasted]

Production-wise it's different, and it's more complex, definite lack of Izzy style songs, but core song writing seems similar, of course themes have changed. Ok, there's a few off shoots, but Locomotive was something new. CD seems like a development form those records, the next logical step.

But how are songs like TWAT/Catcher not like Estranged or This I Love not like Nov Rain really. Even Sorry is like Don't Cry, a bit of Paradise City there I think as well.

Shackler's is like It's So Easy meets Double Talking jive albeit under influence of Rob Zombie/Korn and whatever else.

Chi Dem is like a very intense Jungle. Better and SOD remind me SCOM in various ways.

CD reflects the rest of the GNR back catalog pretty much.

In execution it has it's soundbite or audiophile leanings, and uses some of the production techniques that a lot of bands are using but in essence it's a GNR album. Who else would do a song like Street Of Dreams?

[ITW 2012]

It's sort of like they morphed into Robocop. There's a shiny metal feel to the sound.

Edited May 3, 2010 by ITW 2012

[wasted]

CD is GNR reflected in the eye of The Terminator.

[droezle]

I disagree.

CD is a worldwide hit, just wondering why some people don't like it. I can't see much difference between it and UYI/AFD apart from production values.

I don't realy care if CD is a worldwide hit, i only care about the fact if i like it or not.

So you're just saying CD failed cos you don't like it? Fair enough.

I was just wondering why you didn't like it, as it has all the hallmarks of a classic GNR record. You don't have to have a reason just interested.

And where did i say i din't liked it? There are a couple of songs i enjoy to listen to (Sorry, This i love, Madagascar, Street of dreams, If the world, Prostitute) but what i realy miss are the heavy rock songs. You can make a compare between some songs from CD with songs from AFD/UYI but than i have to disagree because imo it's impossible to compare the new G N' R songs with the old G N' R songs. The sound is completely different imo.

Edited May 3, 2010 by droezle

[wasted]

I disagree.

CD is a worldwide hit, just wondering why some people don't like it. I can't see much difference between it and UYI/AFD apart from production values.

I don't realy care if CD is a worldwide hit, i only care about the fact if i like it or not.

So you're just saying CD failed cos you don't like it? Fair enough.

I was just wondering why you didn't like it, as it has all the hallmarks of a classic GNR record. You don't have to have a reason just interested.

And where did i say i din't liked it? There are a couple of songs i enjoy to listen to (Sorry, This i love, Madagascar, Street of dreams, If the world, Prostitute) but what i realy miss are the heavy rock songs. You can make a compare between some songs from CD with songs from AFD/UYI but than i have to disagree because imo it's impossible to compare the new G N' R songs with the old G N' R songs. The sound is completely different imo.

Sorry, I thought you were saying you didn't like it, not that that's a crime or anything. I just interested in what people don't like about it. to me the sound is different, but it's more like an evolution, it seems like this is where it was going in 91 and taking in the 90s and not ignoring them this is where anyone would be. I can't see a UYI type production really impressing anyone these days. Riad seems like it could have been on UYI, with different production. Catcher seems like that too, could easily have been on UYI in simpler form. Chi Dem seems like one of those 90s rock songs that Manson, U2, Nirvana have done probably coming out of More than a Feeling. But it's got this WTTJ type vibe also. Each song has elements that are very GNR. Every band changes it sound from album to album, it's not a big deal really. I sort of know what you mean about heavy rock songs, but when I think about it I'm not sure which heavy songs I'm talking about, TWAT has some riffs that are similar to PC cyclical riffs, but they are more grungey. I think Perfect Crime/Right Next Door to Hell is covered by Riad, Shackler's, Scraped, the guitar parts aren't as obvious, they still pretty heavy though. I doubt GNR has anything as heavy as Better breakdown on any of their albums. Maybe Coma that grinding riff is pretty heavy, whole thing very epic, nothing as heavy as that on CD. I think maybe if the production was different you'd hear the riffs of CD more, Chi Dem is huge riff?

To dovetail it back on topic, I was wondering if record company didn't give much support because they just didn't get the record. They just didn't hear as GNR, thought this isn't going to be successful?

Edited May 3, 2010 by wasted

[karlossacanell]

CD is GNR reflected in the eye of The Terminator.

[D-GenerationX]

So, once again, we are to believe that "the powers that be" are against Axl.

Its a wonder so many other bands can put out albums, put together coherently promoted tours, and generally carry on their careers. Axl though, he can't catch a break.

Some of you are truly, truly stupid.

[SunnyDRE]

Maybe when they did their research - maybe the record company determined that even with massive promo, it probaly would only affect sells, of say maybe a couple of thousand.

Maybe it wouldn't have been worth it?