Why is Sid Vicious such an icon/legend/etc?

[Vincent Vega]

Everyone around him--the other Pistols, other celebs such as Lemmy Motorhead, etc, all have made it clear that Sid couldn't play the bass. He isn't even actually playing on Nevermind the Bollocks. He was a piece of shit to the audience during many of the live shows and more than likely killed his own girlfriend. I mean, yeah, a lot of rock stars are abusive, or have drug problems or whartever, but, usually they make up for it with their talent--for example Keith Richards and Slash. Both were huge junkies, but they were also incredibly talented and in many ways nice guys. Sid was just this talentless loser. I mean even Keith Richards didn't hit women, actually it's something he's against; He despised Brian Jones after Brian went nutso and beat up Anita Pallenberg..But anyway.

So why is there this veneration for Sid Vicious? It reminds me of the whole Kurt Cobain ''godhood'' except at least Kurt could play--All Sid had was an image and a psychotic personality, no real talent to back it up.

[The Glow Inc.]

Because he's a punk icon ?

You don't need to be a good musician and a nice guy to be a punk icon...

I mean, check out G.G. Allin...

[SunnyDRE]

Everyone around him--the other Pistols, other celebs such as Lemmy Motorhead, etc, all have made it clear that Sid couldn't play the bass. He isn't even actually playing on Nevermind the Bollocks. He was a piece of shit to the audience during many of the live shows and more than likely killed his own girlfriend. I mean, yeah, a lot of rock stars are abusive, or have drug problems or whartever, but, usually they make up for it with their talent--for example Keith Richards and Slash. Both were huge junkies, but they were also incredibly talented and in many ways nice guys. Sid was just this talentless loser. I mean even Keith Richards didn't hit women, actually it's something he's against; He despised Brian Jones after Brian went nutso and beat up Anita Pallenberg..But anyway.

So why is there this veneration for Sid Vicious? It reminds me of the whole Kurt Cobain ''godhood'' except at least Kurt could play--All Sid had was an image and a psychotic personality, no real talent to back it up.

No rockstar respect women.

Edited May 5, 2010 by SunnyDRE

[Vincent Vega]

Everyone around him--the other Pistols, other celebs such as Lemmy Motorhead, etc, all have made it clear that Sid couldn't play the bass. He isn't even actually playing on Nevermind the Bollocks. He was a piece of shit to the audience during many of the live shows and more than likely killed his own girlfriend. I mean, yeah, a lot of rock stars are abusive, or have drug problems or whartever, but, usually they make up for it with their talent--for example Keith Richards and Slash. Both were huge junkies, but they were also incredibly talented and in many ways nice guys. Sid was just this talentless loser. I mean even Keith Richards didn't hit women, actually it's something he's against; He despised Brian Jones after Brian went nutso and beat up Anita Pallenberg..But anyway.

So why is there this veneration for Sid Vicious? It reminds me of the whole Kurt Cobain ''godhood'' except at least Kurt could play--All Sid had was an image and a psychotic personality, no real talent to back it up.

No rockstar respect women.

Listen, Mr. ''I have to be controversial when it comes to everything especially questions about race and morality'', there's a gigantic difference between not respecting women and STABBING YOUR OWN FUCKING GIRLFRIEND IN THE GUT!

[LLL]

Punk music is about "it's cool to be a dumb loser". Sid was the pinnacle of this philosophy so he gets that credit. And then other music styles adapted parts of this philosophy and that is why he gets mentioned occasionaly there too.

Just see what Limp Bizkit did with "we, the X generation don't give a fuck about anything". All that with 10 cents worth of talent, yet he has 50 million on his bank account.

Edited May 5, 2010 by LLL

[John Bonham]

Talent is over-rated. Look at this LLL character - he can probably play the guitar well, but he has zero charisma - so no one gives a toss about him.

[SunnyDRE]

Everyone around him--the other Pistols, other celebs such as Lemmy Motorhead, etc, all have made it clear that Sid couldn't play the bass. He isn't even actually playing on Nevermind the Bollocks. He was a piece of shit to the audience during many of the live shows and more than likely killed his own girlfriend. I mean, yeah, a lot of rock stars are abusive, or have drug problems or whartever, but, usually they make up for it with their talent--for example Keith Richards and Slash. Both were huge junkies, but they were also incredibly talented and in many ways nice guys. Sid was just this talentless loser. I mean even Keith Richards didn't hit women, actually it's something he's against; He despised Brian Jones after Brian went nutso and beat up Anita Pallenberg..But anyway.

So why is there this veneration for Sid Vicious? It reminds me of the whole Kurt Cobain ''godhood'' except at least Kurt could play--All Sid had was an image and a psychotic personality, no real talent to back it up.

No rockstar respect women.

Listen, Mr. ''I have to be controversial when it comes to everything especially questions about race and morality'', there's a gigantic difference between not respecting women and STABBING YOUR OWN FUCKING GIRLFRIEND IN THE GUT!

I didn't realize you where are fan.

Your welcome.

[LLL]

Talent is over-rated. Look at this LLL character - he can probably play the guitar well, but he has zero charisma - so no one gives a toss about him.

You respond to me though? And you probably have listened to me play, yet you don't know.

Charisma is created by a good PR machine. Cutting yourself on stage is charisma...

[Wando]

There is something that fascinates people in self-destruction and indifferent lifestyle.

[appetite4illusions]

Because Gary Oldman played him.

[John Bonham]

There is something that fascinates people in self-destruction and indifferent lifestyle.

People are obsessed with sex and death.

[Wando]

He isn't a legend or an icon. People praise him because he lived fast and died young. How punk rawk of him!

You can argue the nature of his character but he IS an icon no matter what you say.... Definition of an icon from dictionary.com: "a sign or representation that stands for its object by virtue of a resemblance or analogy to it". And to some people Sid Vicious will always stand as the representation of punk rock. Just as Joe Strummer, Iggy Pop, GG Allin or Patti Smith will to some.

[DirtyDeeds]

I didn't realize you where are fan.

Your welcome.

What?

[Gods Favourite]

I didn't realize you where are fan.

Your welcome.

What?

:xmassrudolph:

[CheapJon]

Sex Pistols was THE punk band, sid was THE punk ass

while the pistols are great i'm more of a ramones guy

[sweetness]

He died young and he was in a successful band, you really don't need to look any further than that

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

His image represented what the Punk movement was all about in the UK at the time. He couldn't play for shit though.

[ColdHeartBreaker]

Wanted to comment on this, this morning, but I'm waiting for sugaraylen to open a can of kickass on this thread.

[Rovim]

Looked cool, died young.

[Graeme]

*waits for whatever Frank White's calling himself these days to come into this thread and whoop ass*

[Zint]

Sid personified the scared soul in all of us.

[Rock_And_Roll_Over]

He was a piece of shit to the audience during many of the live shows and more than likely killed his own girlfriend. Sid was just this talentless loser.

That's why. Think about what punk was - dirty, rude, and it was all about doing what you want. Sid didn't give a fuck and was in a successful band, if the Sex Pistols had never made a record as influential as Never Mind the Bollocks, people would have no idea who he is. Because he was exposed to the public, people were fascinated by how disgusting he acted and what happened with Nancy.

[Snake Eyes]

Popular culture loves an icon, someone that symbolises a movement, or someone with a strong personality. Troubadour is it? Doesn't have to be a likeable personality, but he's a character. Building up legends is just the way it goes, some (like Cobain) hate that.

How is Pete Doherty known throughout the UK when the Libertines aren't one of the biggest? How does woodstock get so much recognition when the Isle Of Wight festival around the same time probably had better music? People love stories, iconic personalities/events.

I don't like Vicious.. I love the pistols, johnny...the lot of them but sid vicious hasn't inspired me to watch interviews, research etc. like I do for a lot of other people. But I don't deny it's an incredible image thats been built around him.

[Zint]

Whatever reasons one gravitated to punk in the 70's...it wasn't like it is today.

It was more than a snotty brat thing to do in high school.

It was a life choice.

It was a conscious decision to live life outside of social codes and moral acceptance.

I guess you had to be around in the 70's to understand what kind of impact that had on your life.

It wasn't pop-funtastick!

It entailed parents turning their children's heads as you walked down the street.It meant zero chance of employment outside of cleaning people's garbage off of plates.It meant the continual threat of physical violence every breathing second of your life outside of the confines of your home.

It meant friends you had for many years,from childhood on...disowning you.

It involved family gatherings that you were not encouraged to attend.

High school was not sing songy Green Day fun...it was a living fucking hell.

But you wore it like a fucking badge of honour,you lived it with pride.You withstood all of it with conviction.

The more that 99% of the entire fucking planet loathed your very existence,the more you empathized with the Sid Vicious coat of arms.

He was the face on the poster of social derision.

Why the icon status?...because he was completely oblivious!

And that's the best part.

[Vincent Vega]

Whatever reasons one gravitated to punk in the 70's...it wasn't like it is today.

It was more than a snotty brat thing to do in high school.

It was a life choice.

It was a conscious decision to live life outside of social codes and moral acceptance.

I guess you had to be around in the 70's to understand what kind of impact that had on your life.

It wasn't pop-funtastick!

It entailed parents turning their children's heads as you walked down the street.It meant zero chance of employment outside of cleaning people's garbage off of plates.It meant the continual threat of physical violence every breathing second of your life outside of the confines of your home.

It meant friends you had for many years,from childhood on...disowning you.

It involved family gatherings that you were not encouraged to attend.

High school was not sing songy Green Day fun...it was a living fucking hell.

But you wore it like a fucking badge of honour,you lived it with pride.You withstood all of it with conviction.

The more that 99% of the entire fucking planet loathed your very existence,the more you empathized with the Sid Vicious coat of arms.

He was the face on the poster of social derision.

Why the icon status?...because he was completely oblivious!

And that's the best part.

Besides the Sex Pistols, what other Punk bands did you listen to in the 70s? Like what were the other big punk bands before the Pistols? Like the early-mid 70s?

And would you say 80's punk is different from 70s punk--Like any major change in sound or quality or themes? I know another 70s punk guy here said most old school punks despise most punk records post 1990--why?

A last question--I've read that during the 1976-1979 period, a lot of the young late 70s bands like the Pistols, Generation X and others all expressed deep disdain, almost hatred for bands like the Stones, Led Zeppelin, Elton John and even the Who. Why did they hate the Stones, The Who and Zep--I mean those three bands in many ways paved the way for punk--and was this hatred of older English rock bands only on the part of the Punk musicians or did the young fan base feel it too--like what did your fellow punks feel about the Stones, Zep, etc?

Edited May 6, 2010 by MetalForever