The UK Press is partly to blame for the incident tonight

[mendosa]

those recent incidents are warning for axl .

I hope he will stop being a selfish prick and show up on time for the next gigs and respect fans.

Maybe press won't be so negative with new guns if axl does a (very easy) effort and they can be considerated as a real band and not a joke.

sincerly,

your commander in chief

Edited September 2, 2010 by mendosa

[wasted]

To me it's like a vicious circle media says be on time but axl is one man u just can't reach, like fortus said he'll never change so just enjoy the show cos u never know if they'll be back

[Granny]

those recent incidents are warning for axl .

I hope he will stop being a selfish prick and show up on time for the next gigs and respect fans.

Maybe press won't be so negative with new guns if axl does a (very easy) effort and they can be considerated as a real band and not a joke.

Press will always be negative as they are the mouthpiece of the establishment. And the establishment wants obedience. Obedience is the diametric opposite of Axl Rose though. Was in 1987, is in 2010. If he sees a good reason to do things, he will do them. If he doesn't, you can throw tons of shit at him, he will not do it.

If it counts as being a selfish prick to not cave in - I'm guilty of that crime myself.

[Guest Apollo]

There is a real wave building against Axl out there right now. You look at the comment sections from the videos tonight on youtube, and on Blabbermouth, and the Dublin radio station tonight and there is a sea change going on where people are saying enough is enough, with a great majority saying he "deserved it" and happy that people are finally fighting back against his disregard for the fans.

If I were Axl I would be nervous about continuing to show up late to these gigs whether it is late in his mind or not, because it could be the beginning of a wave of piss bottles coming his way.

Ticket sales have been really good for the European tour, so people clearly want to see him sing. What that also means is that every night is going to be a packed house of people getting restless, and that increases the likelihood of something bad happening if the mob mentality takes over and people take matters into their own hands to voice their displeasure over the waiting.

I bet Axl is regretting calling that promoters bluff on the start time, because this whole thing has mushroomed out of control and now he can't get the genie back in the bottle. Yet he seems loathe to suck it up and get on stage early to avoid all the trouble, so I guess it is not bothering him too much yet to force him to alter his behavior.

Someone is holding a hammer over him though, because he ended up playing Leeds after publicly saying he wasn't going to, and then went back on stage tonight even though he was clearly miserable and disinterested.

Exactly my point--he hasn't been late to these shows--Reading and Leeds, they were on within 50 minutes of the prior band, but the press wrote 100's of articles with complete and utter bullshit saying "how late" they were, which is now being floated as the "truth". It's a shame that the press has influenced the easily manipulated, but that is how it goes. One has to wonder why the press decided to attack as they did after Reading and Leeds---as anyone who watched the videos of the shows, can see an audience absolutely enjoying the shows? The press has totally driven this false narrative, and stirred the pot to the point that the narrative is inciting these people. Guns could go onstage on time, and the press will find a way to say they are late. This phenomenon of bogey-men, and mob mentality is easily stoke these days, as people don't seem to know how to analyze data, and think for themselves---they just believe what they are told. Must be why they like schedules to run on stop watches...and rock n' roll shows to be organized with bullet points like a fucking corporate meeting. As far as I am concerned, Axl giving the middle finger to the establishment and their rules is more endearing than ever! There aren't any young bands out there with balls anymore!

Do you really think that there have been "100's" of articles written about those two shows?

.

And Granny, you are being sarcastic in all your posts, right? You really aren't being serious with most of your comments, but being sarcastic or trying to be funny?

.

As for all the ridiculous talk about witch hunts and being biased against axl......why? What would the point or purpose be? How is it going to help a reporter's career to lie about Axl?

.

And how is Axl sticking it to The Man exactly? The last Man he tried to stick it to, walked out and pulled the plug on the band. Because 2 idiots threw plastic bottles on stage, axl decided to punish the remaining 13,998 fans by phoning in the rest of the show. That's rock-n-roll? That's sticking it to The Man? That's caring about your fans??????

[Ashba_Havoc]

It's not hard for Axl to figure out what to do. I just guess his "yes" men/women don't want to "tell him what to do".

Decide on a time... and print it on the ticket!!!!!!

[bloodyhell1]

go to a show people then you can winge about him comming on late, people today are a bunch of whiny little pussys have to in bed by 12 come on axl, blah blah blah

[Ashba_Havoc]

I couldn't give a shit what time I'm in bed, but I think letting the fans (GN'R care about so much) know what time you are coming on is just respect.

It's ok for Axl, having the luxury rooms, getting his dick sucked backstage. But the fans are wedged in, can't move, hot n' sweaty, waiting for hours.

Why not just say each show will start at 12am? Then we can plan our lives around it.

[andy-robertson]

Exactly my point--he hasn't been late to these shows--Reading and Leeds, they were on within 50 minutes of the prior band, but the press wrote 100's of articles with complete and utter bullshit saying "how late" they were, which is now being floated as the "truth".

Oh really? At Reading were you? Because I can assure you pal, that they were NOT on within 50 minutes of the previous band. QOTSA were done by 2050 at the LATEST, and Guns N' Roses were on at 2230 at the EARLIEST... So that's a minimum of 100 minutes between them. Get your facts straight before trying to defend the indefensible.

And I suppose for each of the "100s of articles" telling the truth about the start time, there will still be some sad little person who thinks it's some libellous conspiracy against Axl and will go spouting all sorts of half baked truths and assumptions on an internet forum, and feel like they're making a difference to how the public and audience members interpret the laws of time.

It's quite simple - YOU ARE JUST DELUDING YOURSELF if you think what Axl is doing is not worthy to be reported upon the way it is. Take off your Rose tinted glasses (see what I did there?!) and look at things objectively.

** I will say that I agree with the fact that the band have been getting some undue criticism re: their actual performances - they were spectacular musically.

[LesPaul_Player_91]

It's not necessarily how long after the last band that annoys people its the time that GN'R hit the stage. KISS, AC/DC, Roger Waters, Robert Plant, The Who, The Rolling Stones, Alice Cooper, Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains and many more all hit the stage at a time which means the show will be over so that fans can get back home that night. 10:30 is a late start. All the bands I've seen have never gone on stage past half nine at the very latest. Usually its 9, sometimes half 8. It's called being respectful to the fans.

Now, me being a diehard GN'R fan accept the lateness and stay in a hotel to be on the safe side however what people on this forum have to realise is that not everyone at these shows is a diehard GN'R fan they won't not get home that night just to see a band, they haven't made prior arrangement as they assume like every other act on the planet GN'R's show will be over by 11.

Not everyone will buy Axl going on stage around 90 minutes later than every other act just because he wants to and I think this is what annoys people at least I know it did at Reading and these people were GN'R fans. If there was a valid reason and if it was once in a blue moon yeah I don't think people would mind but the point is there isn't really a valid reason.

Throwing bottles is stupid and those people should have been ejected but again stopping a show because of two plastic bottles is over the top. People probably throw them to get a response and they sure got a response last night, if Axl just pretended like noting happened he would have robbed them of a response. I saw a band called Texas support Roger Waters/Nick Mason at Hyde Park a few years ago and the lead singer got a shoe thrown at her! Did she refuse to come on stage? No, she hurled some abuse at the guy making him feel very small and carried on with the show. Also, why punish the entire crowd who have paid good money to see a show because of two people? You instantly turn the entire crowd against you.

If however Axl won't budge on the start times they're going to have to start printing it on the ticket. It's the only way to avoid drama like this.

Edited September 2, 2010 by LesPaul_Player_91

[Granny]

And Granny, you are being sarcastic in all your posts, right? You really aren't being serious with most of your comments, but being sarcastic or trying to be funny?

I'm afraid, I'm not.

As for all the ridiculous talk about witch hunts and being biased against axl......why? What would the point or purpose be? How is it going to help a reporter's career to lie about Axl?

1. Witch hunt as an example for mob action incited by public opinion. Public opinion being directed by political interests.

2. Get rid of symbols of noncompliance.

3. Pleasing his superiors by feeding the desired public opinion.

And it is a nice power trip to be able and allowed to publicly rip a legend to pieces with a few scorching words.

And how is Axl sticking it to The Man exactly?

'To hell with the pressure, I'm not caving in.' He has given up talking to the press for a good reason. If he makes public statement nowadays, it is directly to the fans. He has his principles, and he sticks to them. One of the principles is to ensure a great show for the fans. This requires the stage being ready, him being ready and nothing harmful being thrown at the stage. See Belfast.

Because 2 idiots threw plastic bottles on stage, axl decided to punish the remaining 13,998 fans by phoning in the rest of the show.

He made his statement. Stop throwing things and we play. Go on throwing and the show stops. And so it happened. When they came back on, there was no throwing anymore. Looks like mission accomplished. He requires nothing being thrown at him or the band since the early years. Absolutely no news.

We don't know what went on behind the scenes, and why there were no adequate announcements made. I agree, Axl should have spoken to the crowd after CD or so to make sure they know they will get a full show despite the delay. Him not speaking, not apologising and, after the return, merely doing "work to rule" did not help things. What came out of this way to deal with the situation is definitely self-induced, yes.

People were left to think they would only get a 40min show, that's why they booed. And they did not like that there was no communication with Axl apart from the warning and the good night. That was about it.

I really think, people's attitude changed during the last 20 years. They got used to service. But Axl's attitude didn't change. He doesn't serve, he performs. And that's is the core of the problem as far as I can tell.

Everybody is free to disagree with me.

Edit: All journalists are whores of the printing industry unless they work for really independent outlets or are into investigative journalism. They are either lapdogs happy to have somebody keeping them or bloodhounds that are unleashed or kept chained up as convenient to their master. In other words: they write what they are supposed to write. Otherwise they don't get published.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Granny

[tomh]

this thread is crazy

axl could shoot an old lady dead in the street and still people would blame her for getting in his way

[LesPaul_Player_91]

this thread is crazy

axl could shoot an old lady dead in the street and still people would blame her for getting in his way

+1

Anyway, I'm sure musically the show in Dublin was insanely good!

[juadlu]

The blame doesn't rest soley at the press' feet of course-however i have had people actually say to me - "I hear Axl was being a wanker again last night" they believe everything they read and don't even actually bother to watch videos of the gig and form their own opinions.THATS the problem.

The press focus on anything that makes a story more interesting-and that is unfortunatly the negative. Some well balanced reviews wouldn't go amiss- good and bad points-but thats not how they work.!

the only way to look at it is this-any publicity is good publicity.good or bad the band are back in the public eye-in the papers- on the radio. Axls late on stage(heard it before),crowd boos and calls Axl a wanker(old news) his voice sounded awful(heard that before) he's up his own arse(another oldie) . At the end of the day-the tour has practically sold out-the band are being talked about again.

[Granny]

The blame doesn't rest soley at the press' feet of course-however i have had people actually say to me - "I hear Axl was being a wanker again last night" they believe everything they read and don't even actually bother to watch videos of the gig and form their own opinions.THATS the problem.

My saying. The press made sure he is perceived as the one and only to blame for whatever goes wrong. And people look at him this way without thinking twice.

The press focus on anything that makes a story more interesting-and that is unfortunatly the negative. Some well balanced reviews wouldn't go amiss- good and bad points-but thats not how they work.!

It is not only going for negative aspects. It is all about PR for whoever pays the editors bills, be it owners or advertising customers. Axl is a nonconformist, and that's not well-liked unless it can be instrumentalised somehow. I do not deem it conspirational thinking to have a look at the grand picture of the media's function in society.

At the end of the day-the tour has practically sold out-the band are being talked about again.

Yeah, but let's hope Axl doesn't go too ballistic. He should vent himself in a good old rant on stage. Everybody is wating for it and it would clear the air a bit, I think.

[Naupis]

Guns N’ Roses in Dublin gig farce

Posted Thu 2 Sep 2010 12:07 BST by Brian Whelan in Behind The Music

There were ugly scenes in Dublin last night as Guns N' Roses fans endured diva antics from the band, whose current tour has been rapidly turning into a disaster.

In what has been described as a pantomime-like performance the band arrived over an hour late, played for a mere twenty minutes and then stormed off leaving the crowd fuming.

The show seemed to be doomed from the start with the band being booed from the moment they took the stage for leaving the crowd waiting.

O2 crowds have been noted for their no-nonsense approach in the past when they booed Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) off stage for playing new songs and bringing on guest singers. Ronan Keating had to be brought in to calm things down.

The drama really kicked off when one irate audience member threw a water bottle at the band during 'Welcome to the Jungle', prompting temperamental singer Axl Rose to stop the music and threaten ‘one more bottle, we go home'.

The singer declared, "We want to stay. If you don't want to have fun just let us know. We'll be on our way."

Unfortunately for the fans a second bottle was thrown at guitarist Richard Fortus during the fourth song and, true to his word, Axl walked and took his band with him.

The gig then descended into farce as booing fans were told there were ‘technical difficulties' and Irish music industry mogul, Denis Desmond, came on stage to appeal to the crowd.

The red-faced gig promoter explained he was ‘trying hard to get Axl to come back on stage'.

"I'd ask you please to refrain from throwing items at him. I promise a great show, but you have to be calm. I'm sorry about that."

Reports claim things were much worse backstage where Axl was said to have been ‘berating passing fans' and ‘kneeling on the ground with his head in his hands'.

The band were finally convinced to return to the stage after half an hour and played until 12.50am. However, most of the crowd were already safely home in bed having left when the house lights were turned on.

As Axl's car was escorted out after the show gardaí were heard to remark "quick, get the singer out of Dodge before they tear him apart!"

Fans were quick to take to the Internet to vent their frustration with the gig, with many now demanding that promoters provide a full refund to everyone who left believing the show had ended.

http://new.uk.music.yahoo.com/blogs/behind_the_music/17875/guns-n-roses-in-dublin-gig-farce/

Axl is getting brutalized over this gig by the media right now as the articles are really starting to come fast and furious.

[axl666]

More disastrous press- it's starting to come fast now. They threw away so much goodwill!

http://new.uk.music....blin-gig-farce/

It's the top story in the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtime...breaking12.html

More reviews on the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtime.../09/02/gnr-wtf/

[Granny]

Axl decided to wait until 10:30 to take the stage to prove a point to the promoter.

The stage etc. was not ready. How do you know he wanted to prove a point to the promoter? You are guessing.

Do I have to draw you a picture here or are you capable of doing the Math?

No, thanks. Obviously, the promoter wasn't able to do the Math booking the huge GNR show for a 2hours slot of time including technical adjustment after the previous band.

Also the thing about it being a conscious decision to go on late came from DJ's Twitter so you can't hide behind that being a load of shit either.

No, it didn't. The first tweet was interpreted this way, and as soon as DJ realised it, he corrected it with a second one.

Basically if you pull your head out of Axl's arse long enough you will see that.

A) He did go on late on purpose.

No. This is what you choose to make of it.

B ) He knew this would result in the show being cut short, hence the fans get screwed.

No. This is what you choose to make of it.

These are the facts

No. These are merely your interpretations of the facts.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Granny

[brobot]

Actions have consequences? Who knew...

[Dangelus]

It's about Axl being respectful to his fans that pay his wages and put money in his pocket. It's down to us that he is in the lofty position of being able to show up whenever he feels like it... the fans are treated with distain by Axls refusal to play a show at the time it says on our tickets! It aint that hard... unless your sleeping I guess...

He is not being disrespectful. He wants to put up the best show possible - for the sake of the fans. But he wants no shit thrown at him or the others on stage, which is reasonable, I tink. He's also improved a lot regarding turning up for shows and getting on stage ... ah, closer to the set time.

And - no, you don't pay him. He is not your employee like you are your boss's if you have a job. He gets a steady income from royalties. He probably wouldn't have to tour at all if he didn't want to. (No, I don't know for sure. But it seems likely.)

For you to make notes if you like: The fans are not Axl's boss. He is not going to work when he goes on stage. He is an artist and he performes for people who like his art.

And where do these magic royalties come from? Oh yeah, fans buying the albums/going to gigs that may/may not start at the proper time, aka us. We DO pay Axl's wages, we are his income FACT.

[axl_is_hot]

Regardless of who is to blame for the late start it is not okay for immature ignorant drunks to throw stuff up on the stage. Someone could get seriously injured. I can't believe the lack of class Dublin showed. Its never okay to act that way, my 8 year old knows better then that for God sakes. There is a change over time that people need to understand, but even if it was totally Axl's fault it does not give people the right to act so ignorant. I can't believe anyone is even trying to justify those idiots actions.

[bigcountry]

When I seen them in 92 the tickets stated the show starts "around 8pm" then on the way to the show they had the road manager on the radio and said the show had been push back to "around 9pm". Soundgarden(sp) took the stage a litle after 9 and where off the stage before 10 and GNR went on at 12 during the time before just like someone else posted there where boobs flashing on the jumbo tron a few fights here and there but no one throw shit. SO gnr treated us to set that lasted from 12-3:45am no one around us bitched they just had the time of the life!

[Nobodys_Fault]

There is a change over time that people need to understand,

People need to understand that the changeover does not take as long as it did in Dublin. There is no defending the bottle throwers but Axl still would've been booed heavily regardless.

You leave a crowd waiting (with some of them there since half 6 since that is what is printed on the fucking tickets) with nothing to do but drink and of course you're going to breed hostility. People thinking that this is just a disrespectful Dublin crowd are deluded. If Axl does what he did last night on every date of the tour it will be a complete train wreck.

[highvoltage]

Agree with the OP - but it isn't uncommon for the press to do this. It's not just Axl this happens to. Granted, things haven't been perfect, but I think the media blow it out of proportion and then things start to take a negative turn.

Hopefully Axl can catch a break soon....!

[Mastodonny]

those recent incidents are warning for axl .

I hope he will stop being a selfish prick and show up on time for the next gigs and respect fans.

Maybe press won't be so negative with new guns if axl does a (very easy) effort and they can be considerated as a real band and not a joke.

Press will always be negative as they are the mouthpiece of the establishment. And the establishment wants obedience. Obedience is the diametric opposite of Axl Rose though. Was in 1987, is in 2010. If he sees a good reason to do things, he will do them. If he doesn't, you can throw tons of shit at him, he will not do it.

If it counts as being a selfish prick to not cave in - I'm guilty of that crime myself.

Wrong. I saw them in 88 after 2 bands opened for them and there was no long wait. The bullshit tardiness did not start until they became more and more famous. When I saw them with Metallica in 92 we waited for over 3 hours and then he had the balls to complain about the lack of energy in the crowd. The winds had left our sails at that point.

[GET OFF AXLS BACK]

Yes the media made the band take the stage late, those evil media people trying to bury this band of unfortunate soldiers in the war against tardiness

The sooner people wise up to this bands inability to do things considered the norm instead of waiting for every chance to brown nose even when the evidence is so overwhelming the better. Im still a fan of the band as performers but this whole " somebody else's fault " shit has to stop.