Chinese Democracy II sale predictions

[Bobbo]

Before I start this thread, I just want to make it crystal fucking clear. I'm not creating this thread with the intention to cupcake. I'm neither pro Axl or pro Slash. I just see things for what they are.

Now. The main argument that pro axl fans use about nu guns is that chinese democracy sold five million copies worldwide, despite promotion. BUT is that a very valid argument? See despite the direct promotion from axl himself...this album had 15 years worth of hype...15 years of media coverage...and when the time came for the album to be released...everybody that even gave half a shit about this band knew when chinese democracy was coming out. I remember even seeing it on chelsea lately at the time with my ex. So I have to believe many around the globe purcharsed this record...just because the gnr album that was almost believed to be myth for 15 years was FINALLY being released.

Now...if, or when chinese II gets released, in my opinion, I think that will be the album that will show if nu guns has potential as a real band. It doesn't have nearly the amount of hype as the first nu release, so if it sells even half as well, and gets some good critical reception...maybe...just maybe...we might really have something here. To me cd II could very well be the test that shows what nu guns are really made of. What do you all think? And please, despite what your paranoid delussions might tell you, I'M NOT TRYING TO cupcake. Discuss in a MATURE MANNER FOR A CHANGE.

[Chris 55]

It all depends on how good the music is and the promo that goes into it.

[moreblack]

It really depends on how many repeat customers CD has gain'd.

[Chewbacca]

It all depends on how good the music is and the promo that goes into it.

[SunnyDRE]

It all depends on how good the music is and the promo that goes into it.

+2

[Damn_Smooth]

It all depends on if half the album leaks 2 years in advance again I think. I think that that hurt Chinese Democracy's sales more than anything.

[RJ88]

CD sold pretty well considering it had no promotion

[riot]

cd sold pretty well considering we are in a free download era

[Spirit]

Much have changed even in the past three years.. How many copies do an artist have to sell nowadays to reach #1? We have to take that into consideration as well.

However if they intend to beat everyone and go for the top position, they'll have to do a proper good release this time around. The first single has to come with a video, preferably at least one month ahead of the album. The band needs to do promotion through mainstream channels. The music has to be brilliant (I worry the least about that one..)

For the people saying the hype was mega big ahead of Chinese, they're right. But mostly among the hardcore/more-than-casual fans, people in the industry and the music media. I have several friends who enjoys Guns N' Roses, but only knows the most popular songs - let's say they're casual fans. None of them knew much about Chinese, or even knew it had been released. Unless you went (in Nov 2008) to the record labels website, Guns N' Roses website or the Best Buy website, there were hardly any ads to grab attention. I think I saw a TV commerical for it once. You had to be looking in the right places to find out about it. That leads me to believe that the majority of who bought the cd were the before mentioned hardcore/more-than-casual fans.

In order for it to be a complete success, the focus point (promotion wise) has to be the mainstream, casual fans. That means broad and massive promotion. Compare it to a summer blockbuster movie.

Personally the music comes first, but I must admit it would be really cool to see their follow-up be a success in every way.

[Spirit]

Can't remember them being on any talk shows, and the commercials were sparse (at least where I live).

The clue is for the band to get out there and show themselves, that did not happen at all around the release of Chinese. The first concert was over a year later.

[saber_]

Before I start this thread, I just want to make it crystal fucking clear. I'm not creating this thread with the intention to cupcake. I'm neither pro Axl or pro Slash. I just see things for what they are.

Now. The main argument that pro axl fans use about nu guns is that chinese democracy sold five million copies worldwide, despite promotion. BUT is that a very valid argument? See despite the direct promotion from axl himself...this album had 15 years worth of hype...15 years of media coverage...and when the time came for the album to be released...everybody that even gave half a shit about this band knew when chinese democracy was coming out. I remember even seeing it on chelsea lately at the time with my ex. So I have to believe many around the globe purcharsed this record...just because the gnr album that was almost believed to be myth for 15 years was FINALLY being released.

Now...if, or when chinese II gets released, in my opinion, I think that will be the album that will show if nu guns has potential as a real band. It doesn't have nearly the amount of hype as the first nu release, so if it sells even half as well, and gets some good critical reception...maybe...just maybe...we might really have something here. To me cd II could very well be the test that shows what nu guns are really made of. What do you all think? And please, despite what your paranoid delussions might tell you, I'M NOT TRYING TO cupcake. Discuss in a MATURE MANNER FOR A CHANGE.

Sooo, the fact that people saw nu-guns in 2001 has no bearing? C'mon now, you said you were being impartial. It could be argued that people seeing nu guns may have hindered its sales. Therefore, 5 million copies is a helluva'n accomplishment.

Also, is it "mature" to say 'despite what your paranoid delussions might tell you... [etc]'? A wee bit hypocritical, doncha think? How mature is it to have a mini freak out in your opening post? I mean, you just lumped in every person reading your post.

I hope my post is "mature" enough for you.

Oh, and you misspelled "delusions." [Nelson laugh]

Edited July 12, 2011 by mindsaber

[saber_]

Now, now there you go with the paranoia (I'm on an android phone btw, so excuse any spelling or grammar errors). I never said ALL the people that purchased CD bought it without being fans of the nu guns sound, but I, and I alone, feel that more bought it blindly due to hype, than those who did not. 5 million is an accomplishment, but you don't think that being arguably the most anticipated album of all time had a weeeeeee bit to do with that? All I'm trying to say is, hopefully, maybe CD II can be the answer to that...at least to a certain extent.

There you go with your hypocrisy. YOUR ENTIRE OPENING POST is riddled with paranoia, and yet you have the hypocritical nerve to call me paranoid. Look in the mirror buddy.

Look, I just pointed out that there was a major backlash after the 2001 MTV VMAs, which you conveniently neglected to mention. That's all. Don't get all *ahem* paranoid on me. lulz

Furthermore, I never said you said "all people that purchased CD bought it without being fans of the nu guns sound." The point is, we live in the day and age of the internet. And Mr. Top hat did plenty of interviews where he trashed Axl. Those interviews have been all over MTV, VH1, and youtube for YEARS. So I think it's a bit naive of you to give so much credit to the "hype" as being the reason it reached 5 million. As the cupcakes of this forum have pointed out, GnR's appeal is more worldwide now. And what can we say about countries outside of the U.S.? Especially Europe, Japan, South America. Well, we can say that those countries are more accepting of the sound of Chinese Democracy. I mean, as the cupcakes of this forum have pointed out, GnR has been touring all those countries for years prior to CD's release. Sooo... don't you think a lot of people were aware of the lineup change? I mean, let's be real, and I'm not saying you said this, but how many people who bought the album thought Slash was still in the band? A very low percentage. Very low.

Furthermore, in the States, the album was a Best Buy exclusive. What does that mean, exactly? Well it means that if you were shopping at your local Wal-Mart (don't get paranoid, I'm not calling you a person of walmart, like that website), you didn't see the album. Only people who shopped at Best Buy saw the album. Therefore, the numbers CD put up in the states are impressive.

I also dispute your assertion that it was the most anticipated album of all time. Again, we live in the era of the internet. People were WELL AWARE that Guns had undergone some Deep Purplish lineup changes. How did they know this? Oh thaaaaat's right, Mr. Top Hat did hundreds of interviews whining and complaing about mean ol' Axl. Now, while I had a little fun at Slash's expense there, I don't dispute some of his observations. The point is: his observations where EVERYWHERE.

The reason CD sold 5 million is because a huge percentage of people outside the U.S. aren't butthurt about the lineup changes. Now, did some people buy the album out of blind anticipation. Yes, but not many. As all the cupcakes like to point out, the album didn't exactly kick ass in the states. Hmmm... a lot to ponder here.

I hope my post was "mature" enough for you. Sometimes my cynical sense of message board humor eludes people.

Edited July 12, 2011 by mindsaber

[saber_]

So you constantly accuse people of trolling and stirring the shit yet you feel the need to bring up Slash's name in a thread related to ChiDem II...exactly what is the connection and why did you feel the need to bring his name up? your acting just like the people you accuse of trolling mate...........

Also how do you know that the percentage of fans who bought ChiDem and did not know SLash was still in the band was very low? You state this as a fact...where is your citation for your claim?

Did you actually read my post? I thought the point was very simple. Perhaps it was too complicated though... for you. Here, let me summarize. All of Slash's interviews are quite prevalent on the internet and youtube. In many of those interviews, he discusses Axl and the dissolution of the UYI lineup. As I pointed out in the post, I acknowledge that some of his observations are quite accurate, but I also pointed out that I don't accept all of them. I am arguing that many people saw those interviews. Therefore, I believe that many people were QUITE AWARE that the forthcoming album (at the time), which yes had a lot of anticipation, did not have any of the AFD nor UYI members (cept Dizzy). Therefore, anticipation for the album was tempered. A fact borne out by the sales numbers in the States. How you twisted that into me "needing to bring his name up" is beyond me. Maybe you should re-read where I say I accept some of his observations.

Dude do you live in a cave? I didn't state anything as "fact." The people who don't know Slash isn't in the band anymore aren't the ones buying the album, FOR THE MOST PART. They're the ones ripping songs from torrent sites and youtube. Is that really that hard of a concept for you to grasp? If Slash was in the band, it would've done more, right? RIGHT? Yeah that's what I thought, buddy.

But I just bristle at this implied claim that people were somehow "duped" into buying Chinese Democracy thinking it was some previous lineup. Once again, we have the internet. You can listen to the album before buying it. You can look at the band members' names on the feckin album itself.

[mrandyk]

Zero, it aint happening.

[saber_]

But still, 15 years of mystery, 15 years of waiting for an album that was taking...well about 15 years to be recorded, mixed, mastered, and put out onto shelves. That kinda mystique, I believe was more of a drive to see what the album was all about. And yeah it sold 5 million, but afterwards, it did kinda just flat lined. It's kinda just standing still at 5 million. It's been at 5 million since, what the beginning of 2009? Yeah it re-entered the billboard 200, at what, 199 or something? But that was after Best Buy was practically giving the thing away, and it was only for a week or so. Not saying that what I'm saying is the final word. Just a viewpoint, with a pinch of some accuracy if I do say so myself. It is what it is I guess. Just makes me all the more curious as to what happens with the followup.

I can't dispute those points. I believe CD could've benefitted from some different mastering (or even just playing with some levels, and making it sound good across multiple tiers of audio equipment setups).

The only thing I can offer is that there is much behind-the-scenes stuff of which we are not aware. To what extent, I don't know.

Do you really think that most of the fans who bought ChiDem were hardcore fans who knew who was in the band and saw the interviews with Slash? come on mate IMHO the majority of fans who bought ChiDem were not hardcore fans, did not see Slash's interviews and had/have no idea who is still in GnR.........Not saying they bought ChiDem because they thought Slash was still in the band but I am willing to bet there was a fair number who had no idea he was gone or who was still in the band.

And IMHO it did not sell in the States because there was little to no promotion. Axl did no promotion, there were no videos and it had no radio freindly songs hence got almost zero radio play...these things are important here for batter or worse......

First, I would like to say, that if I could, I would rephrase some of my earlier posts. Sometimes I get carried away with muscular sentences and my meaning becomes obscured.

Well I don't agree about your point regarding the demographic. I think the spectrum is pretty wide as far as the folks who bought Chinese Democracy. It could very well be that hardcore fans were a majority, don't you think?(and when I say hardcore, I mean people who eat up any ex-Gnr member's work voraciously, as well as follow current GnR religiously) But who knows? We don't know. There are so many different variations of what people's awareness was as far as the band and album. And yes you're right, Axl could've done more promotion. He should've at least gone on Conan (y'know, because they both have red hair).

I will also dispute your claim of no radio play. What radio are we talking about here? FM? If so, then yeah I guess yer right. However, I distinctly remember hearing "Sorry" on XM (I don't think it was the boneyard, but it was one of those channels in the 40's I think (before the re-numbering system). And I mean this truly: I liked "Sorry." I dug it. I remember it getting some rotation on the aforementioned channel. Damn it's driving me nuts I can't remember the name of it (haven't had XM in a while).

[Apollo]

CD sold pretty well considering it had no promotion

Source?

Five million doesn't constitute pretty good sales?

[mrandyk]

CD sold pretty well considering it had no promotion

Source?

Five million doesn't constitute pretty good sales?

Is there any credibility to that number? Nielsen has the album at 600k here in the U.S.

[wasted]

I guess 1 mil sales in first week in the US is the aim.

then albums seem to double overall. like U2 No Line opened 500k and is now 1 mil.

CD opened 300k, now 600k.

like Lady Gaga sold 1 mil first week at 99 cents on amazon. that will double over the next year.

so a roaring success is 2 mil sales in the US?

would say that's right, I'm just sort of guessing.

[w6a6x6l6]

Now, now there you go with the paranoia (I'm on an android phone btw, so excuse any spelling or grammar errors). I never said ALL the people that purchased CD bought it without being fans of the nu guns sound, but I, and I alone, feel that more bought it blindly due to hype, than those who did not. 5 million is an accomplishment, but you don't think that being arguably the most anticipated album of all time had a weeeeeee bit to do with that? All I'm trying to say is, hopefully, maybe CD II can be the answer to that...at least to a certain extent.

There you go with your hypocrisy. YOUR ENTIRE OPENING POST is riddled with paranoia, and yet you have the hypocritical nerve to call me paranoid. Look in the mirror buddy.

Look, I just pointed out that there was a major backlash after the 2001 MTV VMAs, which you conveniently neglected to mention. That's all. Don't get all *ahem* paranoid on me. lulz

Furthermore, I never said you said "all people that purchased CD bought it without being fans of the nu guns sound." The point is, we live in the day and age of the internet. And Mr. Top hat did plenty of interviews where he trashed Axl. Those interviews have been all over MTV, VH1, and youtube for YEARS. So I think it's a bit naive of you to give so much credit to the "hype" as being the reason it reached 5 million. As the cupcakes of this forum have pointed out, GnR's appeal is more worldwide now. And what can we say about countries outside of the U.S.? Especially Europe, Japan, South America. Well, we can say that those countries are more accepting of the sound of Chinese Democracy. I mean, as the cupcakes of this forum have pointed out, GnR has been touring all those countries for years prior to CD's release. Sooo... don't you think a lot of people were aware of the lineup change? I mean, let's be real, and I'm not saying you said this, but how many people who bought the album thought Slash was still in the band? A very low percentage. Very low.

Furthermore, in the States, the album was a Best Buy exclusive. What does that mean, exactly? Well it means that if you were shopping at your local Wal-Mart (don't get paranoid, I'm not calling you a person of walmart, like that website), you didn't see the album. Only people who shopped at Best Buy saw the album. Therefore, the numbers CD put up in the states are impressive.

I also dispute your assertion that it was the most anticipated album of all time. Again, we live in the era of the internet. People were WELL AWARE that Guns had undergone some Deep Purplish lineup changes. How did they know this? Oh thaaaaat's right, Mr. Top Hat did hundreds of interviews whining and complaing about mean ol' Axl. Now, while I had a little fun at Slash's expense there, I don't dispute some of his observations. The point is: his observations where EVERYWHERE.

The reason CD sold 5 million is because a huge percentage of people outside the U.S. aren't butthurt about the lineup changes. Now, did some people buy the album out of blind anticipation. Yes, but not many. As all the cupcakes like to point out, the album didn't exactly kick ass in the states. Hmmm... a lot to ponder here.

I hope my post was "mature" enough for you. Sometimes my cynical sense of message board humor eludes people.

someone start a thread where we post these interviews and videos of slash and axl and see who's got more