rock in roll hall of fame

[sailaway]

Slash/Izzy/Steven/Duff performing a few GNR songs without Axl is my bet as to what will happen.

Wouldn't be fair to do it with another vocalist, and Axl would look like a douche for not participating (as he rightly should).

I actually would respect his integrity for refusing to be pressured into participating.The show is lacking in any real value anyway,look at all the bands and artists that have been passed over,Rush and Alice Cooper to name two.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Saul would show up on Glee to do a guitar solo, take his check and leave.

[Apollo]

Bobo.....if only your last paragraph was true for both sides.

I believe there are many more people that come her specifically to bash Axl, than people that just bash slash.

Both fan bases have to stop doing it. Then the forum will become a better place. Maybe even allow band members to come here and post.

I've been a member of this forum since 2002. I've seen it go through many trends and attitudes. I'm not sure in that decade I've seen as many posters that are as active in trashing Axl and the new band as there is right now. There are always people on both sides who are sour and love the negativety. But today there seems to be people with an agenda. If the topic was "Axl cures cancer"....as soon as u see the posters name, you know its going to be negative. Those are three clowns that should be banned.

Both fan bases need to stop.

[Cosmo]

Bobo.....if only your last paragraph was true for both sides.

I believe there are many more people that come her specifically to bash Axl, than people that just bash slash.

Both fan bases have to stop doing it. Then the forum will become a better place. Maybe even allow band members to come here and post.

I've been a member of this forum since 2002. I've seen it go through many trends and attitudes. I'm not sure in that decade I've seen as many posters that are as active in trashing Axl and the new band as there is right now. There are always people on both sides who are sour and love the negativety. But today there seems to be people with an agenda. If the topic was "Axl cures cancer"....as soon as u see the posters name, you know its going to be negative. Those are three clowns that should be banned.

Both fan bases need to stop.

hahaha I can easily imagine the three members you said. And I agree with everything you said there, Groghan. Unfortunatelly, I don't think the iniciative of actually not being an asshole has any chance of coming from either side. If there's a way to make this a more pleasant forum, it's up to the mods to know how to identify and properly punish those with no intention of adding substance to any topic, but only to make polemic posts that are sure to cause a fight between posts.

[Apollo]

About the polematic posts, or useless negative posts, if someones posting more than "+1" or something obviously disrespectful like "saul" or "waxl pose" (who am I kidding, no one on the slash side is that stupid to use little jabs like that not once have I seen that shit besides william only used in response to saul) than they're worth having around. Anyone who continually disrespects any member should be banned. How about this. If you dontlike someone here find 25 examples of them saying nu gnr haven't done anything good or saying saul and ban them. Its that easy.

Why!!!! You make a great post. But then u have to add that slash fans aren't stupid enough to post jabs at Axl......are you trying to be funny?

Other than that ridiculous line, which I'm assuming you threw in as a joke, you make some very valid points.

[Cosmo]

Id love to know the 3 groghan means as I can think of a certain three on the other side of the fence... lol it doesn't bother me. Also, its pretty easy to connect the dots why peoples attitudes have gotten more negative since let's say 2008 (now why'd I pick that year? Hmmm). When things get worse fans attitudes gets worse. I can only think of 1, no 2, people who seemingly come here just to hate on axl. If you guys think me or bobbo are that you need a head check.

I don't know about Groghan but you and Bobbo are certainly not in the first 3 that pop in my head when it comes to hate posting.

[sailaway]

Volcano....you do realise the old band exists as a legal entity somewhat don't you? Its members to this day are Axl, Slash and Duff. The new band was formed after Axl left GN'R, and he created his band called Guns N' Roses of which Slash and Duff were employees not partners. Ergo, Slash and Duff are still allowed their say just as they joined with Axl to prevent release of the GH ALBUM and how they joined with him to deny Glee licence to use Guns songs in that abomination of a show.

Partially agree with this,and Props to all for blocking Glee usage.But, Axl didn't leave GNR everyone else did.

Axl definitely "left" the old band to create "Guns N' Roses" of which everyone bar him was on the payroll. I'm not beefing because you tend to be fairly reasonable most times and you seem fairly cool and you don't start crap for reason like volcano, but it's fact.

And yeah, screw Glee. If I had to hear my favourite band being savaged by those neutered, Auto-Tuned, no talents I might as well kill myself.

No need for debates that won't change my view nor yours.It is pointless,so we co-exist and agree to disagree on some points. You are dead on about Glee,bloody horrible sham of a show that should have a health hazard warning attatched to it,completely sickening with no redeeming qualities.

If your view cannot be changed by facts than there's no hope for you. I know you've seen the press release or fax where Axl says he is leaving guns and taking the name with him. We all know it was to have complete control and hire other people as yemployees. If he hadn't have done this there's a way greater chance the band could have come back together and made an actual followup to UYI.

So to say "Axl didn't leave GNR, everyone else did" is incorrect and you know it. Popular misconception really.

If you insist on this debate let's stick to fact and avoid fallacy.Fact1,Izzy left the band and was replaced by Gilby.Fact 2 Slash left the band in 1996, the door was left open for him to return,but due to long term underlying conflict he took his rejected snakepit crap and quit.Fact3 Duff admits quitting and now is blaming legalities for his decision,so he has mellowed and changed his story.Fact4. Duff and Slash willingly signed a contract that awarded the band name to Axl if the band disbanded.Fact5.Sorum was fired.

Of course over the years so much speculation and flat out lies have been told and repeated that some are unfortunately still circulating.Did Slash bring in snakepit and proclaim it to be the next Guns album? Yes,and it was rejected by Axl AND Duff initially,the water gets murky after that so I won't debate that.

Did Slash get bent out of shape when he found out Paul Huge/tobias had laid down guitar tracks down for the S.F.O.D. release for the Anne Rice movie? Yes,seems so but it sounded fine imo.

Even Mick Wall admits it was Axl's band,it existed with Tracii and Rob,before slash and Steven were onboard.Fact.

To take things further,did VR dress up as GNR for spite? Yes,pictures are evidence.

Also,explain the 5:30 am visit by slash to Axls house,that was initially denied then admitted.

When Scott left VR he said he was skeptical about some of the history he was told about.

Finally it honestly does not matter at this point,Guns N' Roses now consists of Axl,Dizzy,Richard,Ron,Chris,DJ,and Frank.They are headlining RIR,as well as other dates being announced.

The HOF is bigger in some peoples minds than others,its Jann's RS publicity show and lately it has sucked massively,it is one awards show among many

VMA's,Grammys,BET awards show,and the HOF has overlooked some very important bands,so imo that fact alone lessens its relevance.IMO.

Edited August 16, 2011 by sailaway

[sailaway]

Volcano....you do realise the old band exists as a legal entity somewhat don't you? Its members to this day are Axl, Slash and Duff. The new band was formed after Axl left GN'R, and he created his band called Guns N' Roses of which Slash and Duff were employees not partners. Ergo, Slash and Duff are still allowed their say just as they joined with Axl to prevent release of the GH ALBUM and how they joined with him to deny Glee licence to use Guns songs in that abomination of a show.

Partially agree with this,and Props to all for blocking Glee usage.But, Axl didn't leave GNR everyone else did.

Axl definitely "left" the old band to create "Guns N' Roses" of which everyone bar him was on the payroll. I'm not beefing because you tend to be fairly reasonable most times and you seem fairly cool and you don't start crap for reason like volcano, but it's fact.

And yeah, screw Glee. If I had to hear my favourite band being savaged by those neutered, Auto-Tuned, no talents I might as well kill myself.

No need for debates that won't change my view nor yours.It is pointless,so we co-exist and agree to disagree on some points. You are dead on about Glee,bloody horrible sham of a show that should have a health hazard warning attatched to it,completely sickening with no redeeming qualities.

If your view cannot be changed by facts than there's no hope for you. I know you've seen the press release or fax where Axl says he is leaving guns and taking the name with him. We all know it was to have complete control and hire other people as yemployees. If he hadn't have done this there's a way greater chance the band could have come back together and made an actual followup to UYI.

So to say "Axl didn't leave GNR, everyone else did" is incorrect and you know it. Popular misconception really.

If you insist on this debate let's stick to fact and avoid fallacy.Fact1,Izzy left the band and was replaced by Gilby.Fact 2 Slash left the band in 1996, the door was left open for him to return,but due to long term underlying conflict he took his rejected snakepit crap and quit.Fact3 Duff admits quitting and now is blaming legalities for his decision,so he has mellowed and changed his story.Fact4. Duff and Slash willingly signed a contract that awarded the band name to Axl if the band disbanded.Fact5.Sorum was fired.

Of course over the years so much speculation and flat out lies have been told and repeated that some are unfortunately still circulating.Did Slash bring in snakepit and proclaim it to be the next Guns album? Yes,and it was rejected by Axl AND Duff initially,the water gets murky after that so I won't debate that.

Did Slash get bent out of shape when he found out Paul Huge/tobias had laid down guitar tracks down for the S.F.O.D. release for the Anne Rice movie? Yes,seems so but it sounded fine imo.

Even Mick Wall admits it was Axl's band,it existed with Tracii and Rob,before slash and Steven were onboard.Fact.

To take things further,did VR dress up as GNR for spite? Yes,pictures are evidence.

Also,explain the 5:30 am visit by slash to Axls house,that was initially denied then admitted.

When Scott left VR he said he was skeptical about some of the history he was told about.

Finally it honestly does not matter at this point,Guns N' Roses now consists of Axl,Dizzy,Richard,Ron,Chris,DJ,and Frank.They are headlining RIR,as well as other dates being announced.

The HOF is bigger in some peoples minds than others,its Jann's RS publicity show and lately it has sucked massively,it is one awards show among many

VMA's,Grammys,BET awards show,and the HOF has overlooked some very important bands,so imo that fact alone lessens its relevance.IMO.

Yeah, but some of these facts have conflicting stories, and it's hard to get things concrete. Fact 1 is right on the money. But why did izzy leave again? Fact 2, not so much. Slash did the snakepit shit BEFORE leaving gnr. And what was his reason for leaving again? Fact 3, gets a little cloudy. Duff didn't exactly change his story. If you read that interview he did back in 99 he said something among the lines of "people filling axls head with bullshit". Sure, he mellowed out throughout the years, maybe changed his perspective of the thing as time went on, but I wouldn't exactly call that "changing his story". Again, it was axl's actions that chased duff out. Yeah, matt was fired, but even axl stated in the 1999 interview with kurt loder, that it was matts intention to get fired when he stuck up for duff and slash in an argument.

As to them signing the name away; that's where conflicting stories come in. It seems like an ultimatinum was at least implied that if the two didn't sign the name; axl wouldn't perform. Member when axl wouldn't record the rest of illusions until their manager was replaced? Not the first time axls performed an action like that, so idk...slashs story doesn't seemed TOO far fetched.

Slashs 530 am, fiasco is a matter of opinion. I personally don't believe he poured his heart out to beta, especially "not being under the influence". I do, however agree, that he should've handled that better. But he only denied talking shit about vr. Hs never actually denied the visit as a whole. But still, he should've clarified things better at the time.

As for vr copying gnrs image, that's certainly not fact. Its just the way you see it. To me, it just looks like rock n rollers wanting to play rock n roll. That's it. That claims just as bad as dj ashba trying to be the new slash of nu guns.

And you're right, things with gnr are just what they are. Hoping for some good things, in some sorta fashion to happen with the band in the future. It's just sometimes hard for fans, especially the hardcore ones, to have such high expectations with everything that's gone on since the classic band fell apart. But still, haven't lost total faith...yet.

The name issue is a nonissue,slash & Duff signed the legal papers,no doubt about that,whether they were stoned,sober or simply stupid its a done deal.Another take on the Niven replacement was that due to a personality clash,he was trying to turn the others against Axl.

You can honestly say that VRs having slash wear a KFC bucket and Scott wearing a red wig and a bandana wasn't vindictive and calculated?

How in the hell you guys are saying Ashba is imitating slash is beyond me,Marc Bolan was wearing a top hat before slash,and so did Alice Cooper on occasion,they do both play guitar,with cigarettes but that is hardly original.

I honestly don't care about the HOF,award shows don't impress me.I though it was questionable when SCOM won the moonman for "best metal" I just don't define SCOM as beloging to that genre.

Im hardcore as well,since the late 80s and through it all,its the spirit behind the music that was first drawn to,and still am.

[sailaway]

Volcano....you do realise the old band exists as a legal entity somewhat don't you? Its members to this day are Axl, Slash and Duff. The new band was formed after Axl left GN'R, and he created his band called Guns N' Roses of which Slash and Duff were employees not partners. Ergo, Slash and Duff are still allowed their say just as they joined with Axl to prevent release of the GH ALBUM and how they joined with him to deny Glee licence to use Guns songs in that abomination of a show.

Partially agree with this,and Props to all for blocking Glee usage.But, Axl didn't leave GNR everyone else did.

Axl definitely "left" the old band to create "Guns N' Roses" of which everyone bar him was on the payroll. I'm not beefing because you tend to be fairly reasonable most times and you seem fairly cool and you don't start crap for reason like volcano, but it's fact.

And yeah, screw Glee. If I had to hear my favourite band being savaged by those neutered, Auto-Tuned, no talents I might as well kill myself.

No need for debates that won't change my view nor yours.It is pointless,so we co-exist and agree to disagree on some points. You are dead on about Glee,bloody horrible sham of a show that should have a health hazard warning attatched to it,completely sickening with no redeeming qualities.

If your view cannot be changed by facts than there's no hope for you. I know you've seen the press release or fax where Axl says he is leaving guns and taking the name with him. We all know it was to have complete control and hire other people as yemployees. If he hadn't have done this there's a way greater chance the band could have come back together and made an actual followup to UYI.

So to say "Axl didn't leave GNR, everyone else did" is incorrect and you know it. Popular misconception really.

If you insist on this debate let's stick to fact and avoid fallacy.Fact1,Izzy left the band and was replaced by Gilby.Fact 2 Slash left the band in 1996, the door was left open for him to return,but due to long term underlying conflict he took his rejected snakepit crap and quit.Fact3 Duff admits quitting and now is blaming legalities for his decision,so he has mellowed and changed his story.Fact4. Duff and Slash willingly signed a contract that awarded the band name to Axl if the band disbanded.Fact5.Sorum was fired.

Of course over the years so much speculation and flat out lies have been told and repeated that some are unfortunately still circulating.Did Slash bring in snakepit and proclaim it to be the next Guns album? Yes,and it was rejected by Axl AND Duff initially,the water gets murky after that so I won't debate that.

Did Slash get bent out of shape when he found out Paul Huge/tobias had laid down guitar tracks down for the S.F.O.D. release for the Anne Rice movie? Yes,seems so but it sounded fine imo.

Even Mick Wall admits it was Axl's band,it existed with Tracii and Rob,before slash and Steven were onboard.Fact.

To take things further,did VR dress up as GNR for spite? Yes,pictures are evidence.

Also,explain the 5:30 am visit by slash to Axls house,that was initially denied then admitted.

When Scott left VR he said he was skeptical about some of the history he was told about.

Finally it honestly does not matter at this point,Guns N' Roses now consists of Axl,Dizzy,Richard,Ron,Chris,DJ,and Frank.They are headlining RIR,as well as other dates being announced.

The HOF is bigger in some peoples minds than others,its Jann's RS publicity show and lately it has sucked massively,it is one awards show among many

VMA's,Grammys,BET awards show,and the HOF has overlooked some very important bands,so imo that fact alone lessens its relevance.IMO.

Yeah, but some of these facts have conflicting stories, and it's hard to get things concrete. Fact 1 is right on the money. But why did izzy leave again? Fact 2, not so much. Slash did the snakepit shit BEFORE leaving gnr. And what was his reason for leaving again? Fact 3, gets a little cloudy. Duff didn't exactly change his story. If you read that interview he did back in 99 he said something among the lines of "people filling axls head with bullshit". Sure, he mellowed out throughout the years, maybe changed his perspective of the thing as time went on, but I wouldn't exactly call that "changing his story". Again, it was axl's actions that chased duff out. Yeah, matt was fired, but even axl stated in the 1999 interview with kurt loder, that it was matts intention to get fired when he stuck up for duff and slash in an argument.

As to them signing the name away; that's where conflicting stories come in. It seems like an ultimatinum was at least implied that if the two didn't sign the name; axl wouldn't perform. Member when axl wouldn't record the rest of illusions until their manager was replaced? Not the first time axls performed an action like that, so idk...slashs story doesn't seemed TOO far fetched.

Slashs 530 am, fiasco is a matter of opinion. I personally don't believe he poured his heart out to beta, especially "not being under the influence". I do, however agree, that he should've handled that better. But he only denied talking shit about vr. Hs never actually denied the visit as a whole. But still, he should've clarified things better at the time.

As for vr copying gnrs image, that's certainly not fact. Its just the way you see it. To me, it just looks like rock n rollers wanting to play rock n roll. That's it. That claims just as bad as dj ashba trying to be the new slash of nu guns.

And you're right, things with gnr are just what they are. Hoping for some good things, in some sorta fashion to happen with the band in the future. It's just sometimes hard for fans, especially the hardcore ones, to have such high expectations with everything that's gone on since the classic band fell apart. But still, haven't lost total faith...yet.

The name issue is a nonissue,slash & Duff signed the legal papers,no doubt about that,whether they were stoned,sober or simply stupid its a done deal.Another take on the Niven replacement was that due to a personality clash,he was trying to turn the others against Axl.

You can honestly say that VRs having slash wear a KFC bucket and Scott wearing a red wig and a bandana wasn't vindictive and calculated?

How in the hell you guys are saying Ashba is imitating slash is beyond me,Marc Bolan was wearing a top hat before slash,and so did Alice Cooper on occasion,they do both play guitar,with cigarettes but that is hardly original.

I honestly don't care about the HOF,award shows don't impress me.I though it was questionable when SCOM won the moonman for "best metal" I just don't define SCOM as beloging to that genre.

Im hardcore as well,since the late 80s and through it all,its the spirit behind the music that was first drawn to,and still am.

You missed my point with ashba. I was saying that people calling him a slash copycat are just as stupid as the ones saying vr was trying to copy gnr. As for the kfc picture you speak of, I apologize then. Was not aware of this. Didn't follow vr that much other than the occasional listen. I wouldn't say that was them copying their image, just poking fun I guess.

As for the name, yeah what's done is done. Just saying that the road to getting there isn't really clear, and seemed a little shady on axls part.

The manager thing, yeah whatever. Axl still could've handled that better. Throw a hissy fit until you get your way is only more of an indication to me that maybe axl DID, at the very least imply that he wouldn't perform anymore unless slash and duff met his demands to sign the name over to him. But again, it is what it is I guess...

Sorry to misinterpret your post,but yeah VR did pull that.I'm sure you could Google and find the pic. I think it was a clash of egos and personalities that had gone on so long under the surface that the band imploded.I do not think anyone is 100% to blame. And I don't hate slash but I don't care for what he has done since leaving Guns,I think that was his best work,and I feel bad he has a pacemaker at his age,after hearing about Jani Lane its a miracle that anyone is still alive.

But this post was about the HOF,and I really don't see it as legitimate,its just another awards show,who omits bands that should already be inducted.

[ssiscool]

Volcano....you do realise the old band exists as a legal entity somewhat don't you? Its members to this day are Axl, Slash and Duff. The new band was formed after Axl left GN'R, and he created his band called Guns N' Roses of which Slash and Duff were employees not partners. Ergo, Slash and Duff are still allowed their say just as they joined with Axl to prevent release of the GH ALBUM and how they joined with him to deny Glee licence to use Guns songs in that abomination of a show.

Partially agree with this,and Props to all for blocking Glee usage.But, Axl didn't leave GNR everyone else did.

Axl quit the band just days before the UYI tour started. The only way he would rejoin was if he had the rights to the name.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

Volcano....you do realise the old band exists as a legal entity somewhat don't you? Its members to this day are Axl, Slash and Duff. The new band was formed after Axl left GN'R, and he created his band called Guns N' Roses of which Slash and Duff were employees not partners. Ergo, Slash and Duff are still allowed their say just as they joined with Axl to prevent release of the GH ALBUM and how they joined with him to deny Glee licence to use Guns songs in that abomination of a show.

Partially agree with this,and Props to all for blocking Glee usage.But, Axl didn't leave GNR everyone else did.

Axl quit the band just days before the UYI tour started. The only way he would rejoin was if he had the rights to the name.

Allegedly.

[sailaway]

Volcano....you do realise the old band exists as a legal entity somewhat don't you? Its members to this day are Axl, Slash and Duff. The new band was formed after Axl left GN'R, and he created his band called Guns N' Roses of which Slash and Duff were employees not partners. Ergo, Slash and Duff are still allowed their say just as they joined with Axl to prevent release of the GH ALBUM and how they joined with him to deny Glee licence to use Guns songs in that abomination of a show.

Partially agree with this,and Props to all for blocking Glee usage.But, Axl didn't leave GNR everyone else did.

Axl quit the band just days before the UYI tour started. The only way he would rejoin was if he had the rights to the name.

Allegedly.

Haven't seen proof of this allegation,so unless someone can post some irrefutable evidence I'm not buying it,and not hijacking this any further:

The topic was concerning the HOF awards show,and who will show up/not show/and how relevant the show is.I'm betting on Adler being there,any bets?