"Closet" GNR fans

[WhazUp]

The only people who would care are your parents! I mean, people who's teen years were the late 80's to 1992.

So your claim, that GnR would be "cool" right now if they were the OLD band touring on materials from AFD to UYI, is just fantasy.

It is because of the NEW MUSIC from this NEW BAND that is giving GnR the chance to "cool" and RELEVANT again in popular culture and history.

1. You obviously do not know my age, but that's alright this is the internet

2. NEW MUSIC from GNR is NOT giving them the chance to be cool. I do not know where the hell that logic is coming from, but it just isn't true. We are stricly talking about mainstream relevancy in North America. NONE of the local radio stations I listen to that play new music discuss or play new GNR (although I would love it if they did). GNR's already set in stone in terms of mainstream exposure - Slash is forever going to be associated with them and they will always be "that band who wrote Jungle, PC, SCOM, and NR" by the general public here

Would I love for new GNR to be even more highly regarded? Absolutely. But it just is not happening, period.

And if you look at my post I never said that they would be "cool" if the old band was touring on old material - although I certainty can see that happening. It is considered cool music that is timeless, regardless of whether it sounds "old" or not - and the proof is the radioplay, the exposure, and the many, many, many people who love those songs. And once again, this is about the public view of GNR in North America

Edited November 4, 2011 by WhazUp

[Kill Devil Hill]

I admire your patience, WhazUp.

[WhazUp]

I admire your patience, WhazUp.

Haha thanks. I post these replies in hopes that it will knock some sense into the equation but unfortunately it never seems to happen :xmassrudolph:

[Kill Devil Hill]

I gave up on gnrfan2007 after that accusation that Slash set CD up for failure because he was bitter at Axl, and that everything has been going according to his evil plan.

But who knows? Maybe he'll actually read your posts in a nonbiased fashion and see the logic in it.

[gnrfan2007]

Are you talking about "The Edge" 102.1 in Toronto?

Do you realize that in 2009, they decided to put a whack of old rock songs from the '80s and '90s into the rotation.

GnR was one of the OLDER bands they decided to put into their rotation.

Prior to this, "The Edge" would not play any GnR songs.

And when CD was released in November 2008, they had a poll asking their listeners if CD was NEW-ROCK enough to be included in their rotation. Their listeners overwhelming rejected GnR - not based on CD, but based on their past music.

GnR is not NEW ROCK or ALTERNATIVE ROCK. People who like NEW ROCK hate the music of bands like GnR, and even Metallica.

Good read this article: http://www.torontomike.com/2009/01/revisiting_the_1021_the_edge_p.html

There are a few comments on there concerning GnR.

But most of The Edge's listeners are angry with the station for changing their rotation for including music from the "older" CLASSIC rock bands like GnR because they don't consider GnR as innovative NEW ROCK, ie. "cool"

Since this "policy" change, some say The Edge 102.1 has lost its credibility as a station that advances NEW MUSIC / NEW ROCK.

So your claim about "The Edge" NEW ROCK station is FLAWED. Many "traditional" listeners of The Edge 102.1 hate GnR. To them, GnR never *was* and never will be innovative enough to be consider NEW ROCK.

TSI was an album full of covers. Not one original song. Not one hit single. Name me one album full of only covers that has sold millions upon millions of copies.

I don't know what type of new rock stations are in your area, but I live in Buffalo, and my "new rock" radio station, (The Edge, Canadian Edge, Hits FM) CONSTANTLY plays Civil War, Knockin on Heaven's Door, Live and Let Die, Don't Cry, November Rain, You Could Be Mine, Mr. Brownstone, Nightrain, My Michelle, Used to Love Her,as well as Jungle, Paradise City, Patience, and Sweet Child. In fact, the only singles I really never hear from the classic lineup on the radio are Estranged and Yesterdays and the Spaghetti stuff.

As for GNR not being cool; bullshit. Alternative was just taking off because it was fresh and new, but GNR was still alive and well. People still were very interested in new material post UYI tour. You don't sell a combined 35 million records of your last record, as well as sell out stadiums, during the grunge period mind you, across the world when nobody likes you anymore. They went off the radar because of internal conflicts! If GnR hadn't stood the test of time, and remained "cool", radio stations would not be playing the material from that era, or any of their songs today.

As for your last point, you sure your radio station wasn't talking strictly about Nu Guns? I haven't heard a CD song on any radio station since the start of 2009...

[gnrfan2007]

So right, when Axl said that Slash did a lot of UNFORGIVABLE things to hurt him, he was just making that up I suppose, huh?

Axl has reunited with everyone from the old band except Slash (and Matt).

So, I suppose that the only reason for this is because Axl has not run accidently into Slash at a hotel, right?

Oh wait a minute, Slash did show up drunk at Axl's house one morning though ... geez, I wonder why Axl has not invited Slash to join him for a show?!

Slash must have done something very stinky then if Axl can't forgive him ...

I gave up on gnrfan2007 after that accusation that Slash set CD up for failure because he was bitter at Axl, and that everything has been going according to his evil plan.

But who knows? Maybe he'll actually read your posts in a nonbiased fashion and see the logic in it.

[gnrfan2007]

You sure are clueless! LOL

It costs money to play a song on the radio. Each radio station has a set of *approved* songs they can play.

If your LOCAL radio stations don't play songs from CD, its because they are unwilling to take the RISKS of playing a NEW SONG that GnR has not promoted through the media (like a music video).

The songs on CD are too advance for the traditional GnR fans. The music on CD appeals more to younger people. But then, GnR has not done any media promotions (like a music video) to promote their NEW MUSIC to new younger fans who would enjoy the new music more.

So, if a radio station is going to play a GnR song, they are better off to play an older song, because atleast they know there is a GUARANTEE market for it because there exists a traditional GnR fan base.

Do the traditional GnR fans like the new songs from CD? Are there enough younger people who like the singles from CD?

NOBODY KNOWS!

NOBODY has any concrete market data regarding the appeal of the CD record and to which demographic that would want to tune into their radio station to hear songs from CD!

They are just like the record company and GnR ex-manager Azoff. They want GUARANTEED money! They don't like taking RISKS!

There is no risk in playing the old songs.

But there is a huge risk in playing the new songs. This is exactly the same problem GnR had when they were trying to get the radio stations and MTV to play their music. Nobody wanted to take the RISK!

So all your points are pointless!

The only people who would care are your parents! I mean, people who's teen years were the late 80's to 1992.

So your claim, that GnR would be "cool" right now if they were the OLD band touring on materials from AFD to UYI, is just fantasy.

It is because of the NEW MUSIC from this NEW BAND that is giving GnR the chance to "cool" and RELEVANT again in popular culture and history.

1. You obviously do not know my age, but that's alright this is the internet

2. NEW MUSIC from GNR is NOT giving them the chance to be cool. I do not know where the hell that logic is coming from, but it just isn't true. We are stricly talking about mainstream relevancy in North America. NONE of the local radio stations I listen to that play new music discuss or play new GNR (although I would love it if they did). GNR's already set in stone in terms of mainstream exposure - Slash is forever going to be associated with them and they will always be "that band who wrote Jungle, PC, SCOM, and NR" by the general public here

Would I love for new GNR to be even more highly regarded? Absolutely. But it just is not happening, period.

And if you look at my post I never said that they would be "cool" if the old band was touring on old material - although I certainty can see that happening. It is considered cool music that is timeless, regardless of whether it sounds "old" or not - and the proof is the radioplay, the exposure, and the many, many, many people who love those songs. And once again, this is about the public view of GNR in North America

Edited November 4, 2011 by gnrfan2007

[Bruno P.]

But there is a huge risk in playing the new songs. This is exactly the same problem GnR had when they were trying to get the radio stations and MTV to play their music. Nobody wanted to take the RISK!

This is correct. That's why Jungle wasn't a hit when it came out - they needed a pop/rock song to make their sound more accessible to the mainstream and Jungle wasn't. That's why they released Sweet Child as a single.

[angrybananapeel]

the people didn't "bail" on GNR. GNR bailed on the people.

one day they just disappeared....

This.

[fergus]

In the 90's I was proud to be a GnR!! Shirts, hats , patches, but now I still where my GnR stuff bur every body makes a negative comment about the current Gnr except the loyals that have stayed with axl

[WhazUp]

You sure are clueless! LOL

NOBODY KNOWS!

NOBODY has any concrete market data regarding the appeal of the CD record and to which demographic that would want to tune into their radio station to hear songs from CD!

They are just like the record company and GnR ex-manager Azoff. They want GUARANTEED money! They don't like taking RISKS!

So if you follow this what you contradicted yourself in your initial post by saying that new-GNR's music is what is re-establishing GNR as "cool" here in North America.

Because it really isn't. Doesn't matter why, how, or when, it never has and most likely never will.

You are right with the notion that NOBODY KNOWS the potential the current music COULD HAVE with radioplay. But since nobody knows, you going off on how AFD sucks and is outdated and how CD is the musical messiah really does not paint the picture that North America views regarding GNR. Period. Doesn't matter what your views are, my views, or anyone here - that fact is constant and has not changed.

Now that Axl has revived GnR with much better music, and much better live shows, GnR is now slowly becoming cool again. And if GnR ever releases a new video and does more promotion, GnR has what it takes to be the biggest band around again.

This is from your original post here. Well, "better" music is subjective so you can't make that generalization anyway. But the "coolness" factor of GNR in North America is absolutely marginalized by the past success of all of the hits you still hear today - not by new material that didn't go over spectacularly over here in the states

Edited November 4, 2011 by WhazUp

[wasted]

Nostalgia is the denial of the painful present.

[gnrfan2007]

I haven't contradict myself! LOL

How successful would Axl be if was touring with this NEW GnR without NEW SONGS to promote?

If the only material Axl had was the AFD-UYI materials, how "cool" would GnR be right now?

Would it not be an embarassment and shame for Axl? Would any of the current members in GnR right now want to be touring with Axl if Axl only had AFD-UYI materials to play?

It is precisely because of CD that GnR can tour with their heads held high! The achievement that they were able to obtain on CD is incredible. They can tour and show it off to the fans - old and new!

It is this NEW MUSIC that allows them to be RELEVANT to the current music scene.

You sure are clueless! LOL

NOBODY KNOWS!

NOBODY has any concrete market data regarding the appeal of the CD record and to which demographic that would want to tune into their radio station to hear songs from CD!

They are just like the record company and GnR ex-manager Azoff. They want GUARANTEED money! They don't like taking RISKS!

So if you follow this what you contradicted yourself in your initial post by saying that new-GNR's music is what is re-establishing GNR as "cool" here in North America.

Because it really isn't. Doesn't matter why, how, or when, it never has and most likely never will.

You are right with the notion that NOBODY KNOWS the potential the current music COULD HAVE with radioplay. But since nobody knows, you going off on how AFD sucks and is outdated and how CD is the musical messiah really does not paint the picture that North America views regarding GNR. Period. Doesn't matter what your views are, my views, or anyone here - that fact is constant and has not changed.

Now that Axl has revived GnR with much better music, and much better live shows, GnR is now slowly becoming cool again. And if GnR ever releases a new video and does more promotion, GnR has what it takes to be the biggest band around again.

This is from your original post here. Well, "better" music is subjective so you can't make that generalization anyway. But the "coolness" factor of GNR in North America is absolutely marginalized by the past success of all of the hits you still hear today - not by new material that didn't go over spectacularly over here in the states

[WhazUp]

It is this NEW MUSIC that allows them to be RELEVANT to the current music scene.

The reason why they are popular, well known, and established as one of the greatest bands (in North America) is due to the past songs, the past hits, and the old lineup. It is the legacy of GNR that allows them to be relevant and is the only reason why the new music can come to fruition within the public eye

Keep in mind that GNR was HUGE until the alternative scene. But even when the alternative scene hit GNR was still pretty big in NA. But in recent times, the majority of people view new Guns in a not-so positive way - which would imply that the new music didn't make a huge impact and thus is not the most relevant thing regarding GNR's presence in North America

Did it sell well? Yes, especially in the ditigal age. Is it great music? I think so, I personally love Chinese Democracy. Is it the reason why GNR is the shit here in NA? No

Edited November 4, 2011 by WhazUp

[saber_]

the people didn't "bail" on GNR. GNR bailed on the people.

one day they just disappeared....

Hopefully one day you'll just disappear from these boards. One thing I do know though- GnR always has, and always will have more talent than the never-was in your sig.

[Bruno P.]

the people didn't "bail" on GNR. GNR bailed on the people.

one day they just disappeared....

Hopefully one day you'll just disappear from these boards. One thing I do know though- GnR always has, and always will have more talent than the never-was in your sig.

:rofl-lol:

[Laparka]

the people didn't "bail" on GNR. GNR bailed on the people.

one day they just disappeared....

Hopefully one day you'll just disappear from these boards. One thing I do know though- GnR always has, and always will have more talent than the never-was in your sig.

It's been years I lurk on this board and I still don't know who is in his sig...

anyway, I just ignore the GNR-hating posts, that's what everybody should do IMO.

But he's kinda right, one day Axl just went AWOL...

Edited November 4, 2011 by Laparka

[Coma16]

Wow I created this discussion so we can something fun around here. Too bad everything turns into a pissing war...

[Kill Devil Hill]

the people didn't "bail" on GNR. GNR bailed on the people.

one day they just disappeared....

Hopefully one day you'll just disappear from these boards. One thing I do know though- GnR always has, and always will have more talent than the never-was in your sig.

It's been years I lurk on this board and I still don't know who is in his sig...

anyway, I just ignore the GNR-hating posts, that's what everybody should do IMO.

But he's kinda right, one day Axl just went AWOL...

Isn't it Tegan & Sara? I've only heard a few songs (songs I really liked), but my friends think they're amazing.

Oh, and Sunny's right. GN'R would have more popularity and respect today if CD hadn't taken 15 years.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Kill Devil Hill

[MB.]

the people didn't "bail" on GNR. GNR bailed on the people.

one day they just disappeared....

Hopefully one day you'll just disappear from these boards. One thing I do know though- GnR always has, and always will have more talent than the never-was in your sig.

:rofl-lol:

But still, you can attack Sunny all you want, but he is right though.

It's true, they did disappear. I have been folowing all the orginals career and have patiently been waiting for Axl to do something. I thought Axl never would do a thing anymore. Pleasant suprise when he did, but he made it difficult for himself, by waiting so long. Not the fault of the people, but his.

On topic, not only NUGNR is a guilty pleasure for me. Also GNR and all the other rockbands I like. I live in an enviroment, were it's ok to like Adele and such. Telling people I like GNR, AC/DC, Metallica and so on is often laughed at.

[JimMorrison4]

I've never felt like GNR is a "guilty pleasure" band at all. Most people I know enjoy their music. There is a reason they've sold so many albums. Even my mom likes Sweet Child O Mine.

I'm more shy to admit I enjoy some Lady Gaga and Rihanna songs than GNR (or any rock band, for that matter).

Edited November 4, 2011 by JimMorrison4

[Let And Let Live]

I think it's one of those things where you're 'not allowed' to like the newer stuff by a band more than their old stuff?

I'm sure there's a lot of that about, there are alot of music snobs out there, I don't follow trends or am not influenced by other around me, I go in with no preconceptions or expectations when listening to new music (new to me) so I really judge the music on it's own credits rather then what I should or should not like for example.

[gnrfan2007]

Do you understand what I'm trying to get through to you?

GnR post-2000 was UNCOOL because GnR post-1991 was UNCOOL.

The OP claimed that it was GnR post-2000 that made people CLOSET GnR fans. That had Slash and Duff still been in the band, GnR would be so cool and popular post-2000. That is just untrue.

GnR was UNCOOL post-1991 already!

Some people, like you, think GnR would be RELEVANT right now, if only Axl had not *fired* Slash and Duff. You think GnR - with Slash and Duff - would still be *cool* if only GnR had not broken up and released new music in the alternative rock era.

This is just not supported by the facts!

OLD GnR became IRRELEVANT and UNCOOL exactly because their music became OUTDATED due to the tidal wave change in rock music and popular culture that started with the explosion of the alternative era!

By the end of 1992, if you were still listening to GnR and wearing GnR gear, you were being laughed at!

And even had they continued making music like what was on AFD, or UYI, or what Slash wanted, Snakepit, it would not have made a difference! OLD GnR's music, style, and image became OUTDATED and UNCOOL already!

OLD GnR got displaced by bands from the alternative era! They became irrelevant to rock, and hence, irrelevant to popular culture.

When OLD GnR released TSI, nobody cared! Even if they had released another album *right* after that, it still would have flopped because GnR's music went out of style! Nobody cared for GnR's '80s hard-rock style when the alternative era bands put out better *hard NEW rock* music.

Now if Axl wanted to, GnR with Slash and Duff, could tour the rest of their lives playing the materials from AFD-UYI and make great money doing so, just like bands like Motley Crue, because there would be a legion of CLOSET GnR fans just like there are a legion of CLOSET Motley Crue fans. Nobody is disputing this. Even the record company and GnR ex-manager Azzoff knew this.

The problem is that, nobody would care! They would still be IRRELEVANT to popular culture. Nobody would talk about them. Nobody would critic them. Nobody would care!

When people remember the '90s in rock, they remember the alternative era lead by Nirvana and Pearl Jam. Nobody talks about GnR's UYI albums, videos, or tours. Nobody cares about what GnR did in the '90s because it got eclipsed by Nirvana and Pearl Jam.

GnR was simply not *cool* anymore post-1991. A lot people jumped off the GnR band-wagon. That's just the historical facts.

So when GnR started to make their comeback push in 2000, nobody cared because GnR was already irrelevant due to tidal wave change in popular culture that started with Nirvana.

Nobody cared because they were expecting GnR to be the same band that played OUTDATED rock music from the '80s.

So it had nothing to due with Slash and Duff not being in the band anymore, or that GnR had not released any new music in over a decade.

GnR post-2000 was UNCOOL because GnR post-1991 was UNCOOL.

So it was long hard battle for Axl and the new band to shed the dirty sleezy hard rock image and sound that defined the old band pre-1992.

For GnR today to become COOL and relevant again, their music had to evolve, and thankfully it did.

It is because of the NEW MUSIC and NEW IMAGE, CLOSET GnR fans can now no longer be embarrassed to show their GnR colors. The music on CD is simply better than most other rock bands out there. GnR simply puts on better shows than others. And the members of GnR simply look COOL too!

In 10 years from now, will people remember what GnR did post-2008? Because of the NEW BAND and NEW MUSIC, there is much better chance that GnR will be talked about 10 years from now.

Had Slash and Duff still been in the band, nobody would care about GnR now and 10 years from now, just like nobody cares about VR.

It is this NEW MUSIC that allows them to be RELEVANT to the current music scene.

The reason why they are popular, well known, and established as one of the greatest bands (in North America) is due to the past songs, the past hits, and the old lineup. It is the legacy of GNR that allows them to be relevant and is the only reason why the new music can come to fruition within the public eye

Keep in mind that GNR was HUGE until the alternative scene. But even when the alternative scene hit GNR was still pretty big in NA. But in recent times, the majority of people view new Guns in a not-so positive way - which would imply that the new music didn't make a huge impact and thus is not the most relevant thing regarding GNR's presence in North America

Did it sell well? Yes, especially in the ditigal age. Is it great music? I think so, I personally love Chinese Democracy. Is it the reason why GNR is the shit here in NA? No

[rockerman]

So I can't think of more than a handful of people who have given CD and nuGuns a fair shake. I am will to bet that there are actually a lot more out there but just don't want to come out of the closet, so to speak. Is GNR (post 2000's) a guilty pleasure? What do you think?

For the teens around me that i teach...GNR is dad and moms music..and the albums on the Ipods are AFD UYI and LIEs. I recently told many of rocker students that GNR is playing in Denver and they all said...yawwn nice....some really want to go but not a single one of them mentioned CD songs they want to hear...its the classics. Same with the group im going with...its to see the classics performed. Im inclined to think that CD eluded many out there for what it was and is..simply because they cant or dont or wont identify with it. Its not kiddy music by any means and its troubleing to most of the original fan base who grew up with GNR...its dramatic and deep without being statement driven. Those in my circle of muscians and music fans...hear it and dont identify with it...its not the voice of spewing venom and recklessness and even the title track Chinese Democracy ..(what the hell is that song about???? ) takes a reading through the lyrics to interpret what Axlis gigging on about.

Had CD hit in the early 2000's when most of us were in early 30's then the songs would have had more of a connection i think.

Im still on the fence..ilike the Album...but theres a part of me that still says...And??? Clearly its different...not what was expected and even somewhat depressing given the theme of many of the songs on it. hard to draw a line from AFD and CD as being connected except by AXL

I attribute it also lack of images...Estranged, November Rain, Dont Cry Patience..SCOM and WTTJ ..those videos were everywhere...they were cool to watch and the illusion of this huge band doing amazing things was dazzling.

I think with music being so available and such a huge market today...there wasnt a standout kick you in the teeth song that stood out for the casual listening audience..so they view CD like they did every album released by a 80's and 90's band. Crue, Warrent Ratt, Cinderella, Journey Night Ranger ect ect all released albums that went no where and did nothing like their heyday albums. Go to a show and what are they playing...the 80's stuff.

[Coma16]

Do you understand what I'm trying to get through to you?

GnR post-2000 was UNCOOL because GnR post-1991 was UNCOOL.

The OP claimed that it was GnR post-2000 that made people CLOSET GnR fans. That had Slash and Duff still been in the band, GnR would be so cool and popular post-2000. That is just untrue.

I never even mention the classic line-up. That's not what this thread is about. And for the recored GNR was popular in the mid-nineties. Had OMG been more commercial and followed up with more songs GNR could've stayed relevant.