On this day 20 years ago...

[dalsh327]

@Knife-Chase:

The bottom line is Slash's own book annihilates your premise about Izzy being "totally down for VR." Also, if you watch the interview with Slash (which you seem to have conveniently missed for some reason), it also corroborates the fact that Izzy's transient nature was a surefire indicator to all involved that he wasn't gonna be in the band.

Furthermore, the wikipedia quote I included in my last post seems to contradict quite a few things you're asserting. However, unlike me (who acknowledged that it corroborated SOME of what you said), you seem unwilling to admit you've skewed quite a few things. I encourage you to read it. Pay close attention to the timeframe of Izzy's involvement (2 weeks), and the timeframe when VR was auditioning singers (and who those singers were) in relation to Izzy's two-week stint with them. I know you like to keep re-pasting that interview repeatedly in some sort of vain victory lap, but the truth is Izzy had an unrealistic vision for a VR quartet. Touring in a van with just him, Matt, Duff, and Top hat? Kushner already in the band? Do you see how your premise is sort of falling apart because Izzy wasn't being ultra super literal with his statements in the interview? You can keep re-pasting the interview repeatedly, but the truth is you've spun quite a few things, and the majority of them have been completely exposed.

I still believe that part of Izzy's reticence had to do with his friendship with Axl. When they were auditioning singers, I'm sure it occurred to him how it might look to Axl if he too (izzy that is), was in the band. Remember: Izzy made a statement about him and Duff taking over vocals for their van tour. That van tour gnr leftovers quartet idea is a lot different from what was already materializing with Kushner and vocalist auditions. Izzy and Axl have a bond, and that, of all things, you can't deny. Izzy jammed with VR for two weeks then went on his merry way.

Izzy came across with a "wishful thinking" idea after keeping his distance from his former band mates for a while, and if it was about keeping it in the clubs, they could've just done Camp Freddy and made it a GNR themed night. It just evolved into something bigger.

[Damn_Smooth]

Who knows if it was an obscene amount of money, it was just the fact he discussed it with his manager behind his back.

Re-read the chats with Axl plz.

"Thiago: What's the reason you rejected the invitation to join Velvet Revolver?

Izzy: I wanted a quartet: Slash, Duff, Matt and I, but they really wanted a singer so much, and, as we know, the singing one is the quite problematic one sometimes. So I decided to simply go on with pursuing my solo interests.

Thiago: It is certain that you suggested that Duff and you would do the vocals in the band?

Izzy: Yes. That would have been the best solution."

http://www.chopaway.com/viewtopic.php?id=477

Shut up. Everything you said about me being a liar, how the reason you made stuff up was "counter trolling", your long winded explanations based on nothing, your insults to me personally, your bringing Izzy playing with Axl into it (nothing to do with the point about VR),your bringing up heroin in the old days (nothing to do with the point about VR), your mocking me because I said Izzy didn't want a lead singer, can all be best explained by the above quote. I'm not going to argue with someone who writes in the way I just described.

#1: I like how you exempted SONOFABITCH. I see how it is: It's okay to cupcake about Axl, but a big no-no to cupcake about Slash. Got it.

#2: If you spent any time on this board, you would know that people here say WAY worse things than I said to you. If you're going to be that sensitive, stay off a Guns n Roses messageboard. Go read Axl's and Bumble's threads on this very site, mister politically correct.

#3: You sir, are very talented at what you do, creating new alt accounts and spinning things relentlessly. No really, bravo. Now allow me to give YOU a quote:

Recognizing that their musical relationship was still intact,[20] the trio began rehearsing with Todd[20] and Nelson, working on material that would become "Dirty Little Thing",[21] but eventually decided against forming a group with them.[22][23] During a Loaded show at Hollywood's Viper Room,[23] McKagan introduced Kushner to Slash, who were previously friends in junior high and high school.[17][24] Kushner was invited to jam with the group and was soon invited to join with Slash, stating that "Dave brought a cool vibe to what [they] were doing. There was no deliberation; that was it, it was a perfect fit."[24] Their former Guns N' Roses band mate Izzy Stradlin also joined them for two weeks,[25] eventually suggesting that "Duff and [stradlin] will sing and [they] will just do a club tour in a van." Slash states in his autobiography that it was hard to tell if Stradlin was serious or kidding.[26] After auditioning Kelly Shaefer of Atheist and Neurotica,[20] Stradlin left the group.[26]

While Shaefer's audition was unsuccessful, the quartet continued auditioning for a lead singer, with VH1 filming the recruitment process[27] while being referred to as the temporary name "The Project".[20] The resulting documentary was aired as VH1 Inside Out: The Rise of Velvet Revolver. A number of lead singers auditioned for the band, including Todd Kerns, formerly of Age of Electric,[28][29][30] Sebastian Bach, formerly of Skid Row,[31] Shawn Albro of U.P.O.,[29] and Travis Meeks of Days of the New.[32] Myles Kennedy, formerly of The Mayfield Four, declined an invitation from Sorum to audition.[33] Ian Astbury of The Cult and Mike Patton of Faith No More[34] also declined audition offers.[34] The band were also interested in auditioning Stone Temple Pilots singer Scott Weiland, who had become friends with McKagan after attending the same gym.[35][36] Weiland once played on the same bill as Kushner,[31] and was in rehab at the same time as Sorum.[31][36] Weiland was sent two discs of material,[35] and felt that the first disc "sounded like Bad Company gone wrong."[35] When he was sent the second disc, Weiland was more positive, comparing it to Core-era Stone Temple Pilots,[35] though he turned them down because Stone Temple Pilots were still together.[31]

Well well well, it would seem there are shades of grey, aren't there? Hmmm.

#4: Any time a noobie like you joins this forum, but yet steps in like like they've been here before not missing a beat, and then tries to act offended, and then tries to discount certain points about Slash while being very focused on quote unquote setting the record straight on Axl, usually means only one thing: You're a long-ago banned poster who's trying desperately to continue with your lame-assed agenda. Yeah, I admit, wikipedia seems to corroborate SOME of what you said, but not ALL of what you said. In fact, some of it seems to COMPLETELY CONFLICT with your supposedly factual account. *cough* bullshit *cough* I love how it's Slash's own book which destroys one of your main premises.

You seem to be very selective about which points you want discussed. Oh right, because I offended you. I guess you're offended by Bumble and Axl too, maybe you should just quit being a fan.

The thing that sticks out the most though is how much you seem to not care as much about Axl being smeared by others. You're just another Slashole. But I'll give you this: you're more talented than most of them. ; ) Lighten up buddy, welcome to the interwebz. We got fun n games.

[edit: fixed quotes, polished grammar ; ) ]

wow. You're really something else. Settle down bro. All I said was that it was funny that people were saying the reason Izzy isn't in VR was because he didn't want to work for Slash, when, from the interview I posted it seemed like it was a fear of working under another Axl that scared him away. That's it, your long winded posts barely address what I actually said. I will address your points though.

1. What did SONOFABITCH say? I commented on a post by (I can't scroll thru the thread so forgive me if the name is off) grogan. It's not okay to cupcake about anything (unless it's funny, in which case I wish I was trolling because I definitely trolled the shit out of you by your emotional novels you keep writing me hahaha)

2. It's just funny and a sign of defeat when someone starts spouting off personal insults. Like, that's all you got left to try and prove your point? (Rhetorical question). I'm not offended by someone calling me names online it just shows their immaturity and makes me not want to bother responding, but alas, here I am.

3. What? This isn't even a point about anything just more assumptions about me since you don't like my post. About the quote: Lol, I quoted from Izzy's mouth, you quote wikipedia, the part I bolded is the only part that talks about Izzy and it says nothing against Izzy's quote. It seems your making facts out of, well, nothing to counter my quote from the horses mouth.

4. What? Some of what I said not all of what I said? My post was like three sentences making one point. I then showed a quote by Izzy saying EXACTLY what I posted. You're making it seem like I typed out this long hate filled spiel (sort of like your first reply to me). I fail to see why this is such a big deal to you and why you're making so many assumptions about me.

I don't care if Axl is smeared by others? Dude, where are you getting this shit? Like 60% of what you're saying to me is just hate of what you THINK I am and nothing to do with my one post in this thread. A slash hole? Uhh, ya I like Slash who doesn't here? I also like Axl. I REALLY like them together but that seems to be sacrilege around here so I only say that in the reunion section (which btw, you probably shouldn't look at my posts there or you might have an aneurysm do to the stress).

EDIT:

So I see his name is Groghan, perhaps you missed my post on the previous page?

"Thiago: What's the reason you rejected the invitation to join Velvet Revolver?

Izzy: I wanted a quartet: Slash, Duff, Matt and I, but they really wanted a singer so much, and, as we know, the singing one is the quite problematic one sometimes. So I decided to simply go on with pursuing my solo interests.

Thiago: It is certain that you suggested that Duff and you would do the vocals in the band?

Izzy: Yes. That would have been the best solution."

http://www.chopaway....opic.php?id=477

Keep arguing, though

What is ironic is you guys were trying to make Slash look bad in favour of Axl by saying Izzy didn't want to work with Slash, the irony is Izzy DID want to work with Slash but didn't want a new dominating lead singer like one's he had in the past. Do you see the irony now? It's pretty cut and dry, no? What is lol is the irony. Why is this so hard for you guys to understand? I hope that clears it up. Grohan, you must have missed that quote yes?

Bravo! Sometimes their passion for Axl blinds them from the reality of the situation. Can't really argue with something that's straight from the horse's mouth. Especially the "as we know, the singing one is the quite problematic one sometimes"...

I get that Izzy and Axl have a good relationship now. But I doubt that he would be willing to work with him again on a regular basis, like he would've with Slash, Duff, and Matt had their been no lead singer.

And what is the reality of the situation Bobbo? You seem to know everything that goes on with the band including, but not limited to, album sales and personal relationships between band members. When are you going to write this book that details your connection to Gn'R?

Why are you still the only source on the internet that says that CD sold less than 5 copies or whatever number you decide is appropriate for the moment? What were the last words that Axl and Slash said to each other? You have all of this inside info and you choose not to tell anyone? That's what is referred to as being a selfish dick Bobbo.

And that's not half as bad as the fact that you are holding out the secret of time travel from the rest of humanity. Seriously, you go back to attend any meeting that the band has ever had (You aren't old enough to have been there.) and you can't do anything to make the world a better place? That makes no sense.

What? Never claimed I had inside knowledge, apparently, you're missing the whole point.

People on this board were claiming all these things about Izzy not wanting to work with Slash, and yadda yadda. Then Knife Chase posted an actual quote from an interview with Izzy himself, specifically saying he didn't want to join the band with a lead singer. So I commended him for doing the one thing most people on here seem to never do. Actually post evidences of your claims. Bam. Straight from the horse's mouth. That was the reality of the situation. How can you get anymore concrete than that?

As for the 5 million thing, where has there, besides one guy from Chile that claimed he heard five million. There's strong evidence that suggest otherwise, and it was never officially confirmed what it sold. I just think it's not at 5 million, as it would've been high on the charts worldwide after it hit it's 2.6 million mark, and it wasn't. Please post me all these other sources that say 5 million sold.

Or better yet, post it on the wikipedia page for Chinese Democracy, and see how long it stays. You'd think with "every other source on the internet saying it did sell 5 million" there would be some concrete source to site. Or maybe I'm just more powerful and all knowing than I thought.

Who are you quoting with your "every other source" quote there? I have one source for each argument. A website from Chile, and you.

Why are you guys arguing about Izzy? Is he in Guns n' Roses? Is he in Velvet Revolver? Is he touring with Slash? He's played live with both VR and Guns n' Roses so it's quite obvious that he's friends with both Axl and Slash right? The whole Izzy argument is stupid and pointless because it's painfully obvious that he is just going to do what he wants to.

Yes, you have one source from Chile that claims he heard it sold 5 million. Questionable at best. My source. Factual shit. The charts. Like the fact that after the album hit 2.6 million, it wasn't high enough on the charts to score itself another 2.5 million. Isn't it also funny how not one other source in the entire world is claiming five million? Not even one? But yet, you're claiming that "I'm the only source on the internet that's claiming it didn't hit 5 million". What happened to that argument, ace?

If you feel your source is that valid, then why doesn't even wikipedia of all places accept the information that's cited? Or why can't you find all these other sources that are claiming it sold 5 million? The Internet is a pretty big place guy, and if I'm the only one that's saying it didn't hit 5 million, surely there are many, many other sources you can cite to prove me wrong.

I still stand by that statement, chief. I wasn't taking either side of the argument, I was stating my sources for both sides. You should really learn to work on your reading comprehension. You find me official numbers and we'll talk. I'm not dumb enough to take either side of an argument about sales when nobody has factual data.

[Apollo]

Knife.....nice try. But your spin in the situation is ridiculous. No matter how funny or ironic you think it is.

So let's cut through the extra bs and slash or Axl bias. Bobbo got half of it right, but u post spun it towards slash.

Izzy CHOSE to not be in VR. U can blame it on Axl, on racism in Britain, on how annoying rose odonnell is. At the end of the day, for whatever reason, Izzy chose not to be in VR.

All I ask is for you guys to apply your logic to both Axl and Slash. You keep saying "if" they hadn't added a singer and "if" they played clubs or whatever, then Izzy would have played with VR. Ok....if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

Izzy chose to leave GnR, which had Axl and Slash. He chose NOT to join VR (which had slash).

Maybe Izzy does things for his career based on his own reasons.....and everything he does isn't based on Axl or Slash.

Not everything has to turn into an Axl vs Slash fight.

[Rayno]

He doesn't follow dictators or Ayatollah's.

Yeah, that's why he didn't want to be Slash's bitch in Velvet Revolver.

Great point.

The Axl haters always fail to mention that.

And they forget that Izzy has actually played with the current band on numerous occasions. Has he played with VR or on slash's solo tour?

He has played on VR tour but not on Slash solo tour.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh61wwDoyGQ

He did - in 1995:

[Damn_Smooth]

Well gee Mr. "You're the only source on the Internet that claims CD didn't sell five million copies", look at your change of tone. For someone claiming about not wanting to argue about official numbers, you were certainly not implying that just two posts ago .

No, there aren't any factual numbers handy, which was my whole point, as you were claiming otherwise, again, just two posts ago. BUT, I still stand by my claims on how there's evidence that suggests the album is likely not at 5 million sold.

As for the topic at hand, again, all I was doing was commending knifechase for actually posting an interview of Izzy, backing up his claims. Not clumped stories from wikipedia that are mixed up with secondary sources, and "he said, she said" bullshit. And then making assumptions based on opinions and trying to make it sound like fact. Just quotes about the topic argument at hand, straight from the horse's mouth.

There is no change in tone. You are still the only source. You haven't provided a source of your own yet. It's Bobbo running around passing off his theory as fact when he doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about that made me mention that in the first place. It's not that I agree or disagree, it's that you don't know. I don't know how you are reading a change in tone in to that. I don't need an emoticon to convey that I feel that your responses are over confrontational and completely pathetic.

[Damn_Smooth]

Lol, only source? Again, look at the charts. Highly unlikely that the album hit 5 million. Note "highly unlikely". Never stated my word as gospel.

Your source is "heresay". A guy that "heard" something. Hardly concrete. Mine is at least based on what happened.

We don't have official numbers. But I'm not the only one saying it more than likely didn't hit 5 million.

Both of my sources are hearsay, I haven't seen anybody post one official chart. That's why I don't take a side on this argument. You, on the other hand, defend your position like it means something whenever you are given the opportunity to do so.

Don't you find that at least a little funny? Why be so serious about something you can't possibly prove?

[Damn_Smooth]

Lol, only source? Again, look at the charts. Highly unlikely that the album hit 5 million. Note "highly unlikely". Never stated my word as gospel.

Your source is "heresay". A guy that "heard" something. Hardly concrete. Mine is at least based on what happened.

We don't have official numbers. But I'm not the only one saying it more than likely didn't hit 5 million.

Both of my sources are hearsay, I haven't seen anybody post one official chart. That's why I don't take a side on this argument. You, on the other hand, defend your position like it means something whenever you are given the opportunity to do so.

Don't you find that at least a little funny? Why be so serious about something you can't possibly prove?

Well, I'm sorry if my posts seem overly serious to you.

All I was trying to get at is that I don't think the album achieved 5 million, and there's some evidence supporting that. People post that number like it's 100% fact, while it's not. Just giving my two cents where I see fit. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, I knew that.

[Damn_Smooth]

Well there you go, guy.

So what made you even bring this up out of nowhere? You brought that in here, and then decided that you didn't want to argue. So what was the point? Enlighten me.

The point was that you argue over the dumbest shit and I don't understand why. Why do you continue to argue things that can't be proven? 95% of the time you try to imply that other people are stupid for not agreeing with your assumed opinions. The whole purpose of this conversation was to help me understand why you do that.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Damn_Smooth

[GNR123GNR456]

What in the blue hell is everyone arguing about?

Izzy was in Velvet Revolver for 2 weeks, then left. That's a fact.

Izzy played with GN'R in 2006 on numerous occasions. That's a fact. He was supposed to be on stage at the Miami show with GN'R but he didn't go.

So what are we arguing about? Izzy is on good terms with Axl and Slash.

Edited December 1, 2011 by GNR123GNR456

[Kill Devil Hill]

Actually, I read Slash's book recently, and it says that Izzy was down for VR as long as VR didn't have a frontman. And I'm pretty sure there's an Izzy interview stating it...

Also, SONOFABITCH isn't anti-GN'R at all. He just sees this lineup and the old GN'R as separate entities because of the major lineup change.

Sorry if I'm repeating people. Haven't read all the way through the thread.

[Damn_Smooth]

Well there you go, guy.

So what made you even bring this up out of nowhere? You brought that in here, and then decided that you didn't want to argue. So what was the point? Enlighten me.

The point was that you argue over the dumbest shit and I don't understand why. Why do you continue to argue things that can't be proven? 95% of the time you try to imply that other people are stupid for not agreeing with your assumed opinions. The whole purpose of this conversation was to help me understand why you do that?

How did I do that in this thread? I commended knife whatever for posting evidence to back up his claim. And then you came in here with the "five million crap".

Again, even after you came at me with that, I just gave my opinion, and why I thought that. Never stated it was fact, just that there's evidence to support otherwise. Kinda out of left field...

Your whole "Sometimes their passion for Axl blinds them from the reality of the situation." struck me as odd when you get blinded enough by your passion for whatever that you'll argue things that can't be proven. It made me curious.

[Damn_Smooth]

Well there you go, guy.

So what made you even bring this up out of nowhere? You brought that in here, and then decided that you didn't want to argue. So what was the point? Enlighten me.

The point was that you argue over the dumbest shit and I don't understand why. Why do you continue to argue things that can't be proven? 95% of the time you try to imply that other people are stupid for not agreeing with your assumed opinions. The whole purpose of this conversation was to help me understand why you do that?

How did I do that in this thread? I commended knife whatever for posting evidence to back up his claim. And then you came in here with the "five million crap".

Again, even after you came at me with that, I just gave my opinion, and why I thought that. Never stated it was fact, just that there's evidence to support otherwise. Kinda out of left field...

Your whole "Sometimes their passion for Axl blinds them from the reality of the situation." struck me as odd when you get blinded enough by your passion for whatever that you'll argue things that can't be proven. It made me curious.

You know there are people on here like that. As in, people that see Axl as the man can do now wrong, has never did any wrong, and won't do any wrong. Ever.

As for the 5 million thing, again, I don't get "blinded" by anything. It is what it is to me, and I call it like I see it. Not saying my opinion is the holy truth, but when people make claims and try to turn it as fact, I just counter, that it's not fact. It's a discussion board. Of coure there's gonna be conflicting opinion.

Good deal, I see more people that think Axl can do no right than people that think he can do no wrong though. This message board is dysfunctional.

[Damn_Smooth]

Well there you go, guy.

So what made you even bring this up out of nowhere? You brought that in here, and then decided that you didn't want to argue. So what was the point? Enlighten me.

The point was that you argue over the dumbest shit and I don't understand why. Why do you continue to argue things that can't be proven? 95% of the time you try to imply that other people are stupid for not agreeing with your assumed opinions. The whole purpose of this conversation was to help me understand why you do that?

How did I do that in this thread? I commended knife whatever for posting evidence to back up his claim. And then you came in here with the "five million crap".

Again, even after you came at me with that, I just gave my opinion, and why I thought that. Never stated it was fact, just that there's evidence to support otherwise. Kinda out of left field...

Your whole "Sometimes their passion for Axl blinds them from the reality of the situation." struck me as odd when you get blinded enough by your passion for whatever that you'll argue things that can't be proven. It made me curious.

You know there are people on here like that. As in, people that see Axl as the man can do now wrong, has never did any wrong, and won't do any wrong. Ever.

As for the 5 million thing, again, I don't get "blinded" by anything. It is what it is to me, and I call it like I see it. Not saying my opinion is the holy truth, but when people make claims and try to turn it as fact, I just counter, that it's not fact. It's a discussion board. Of coure there's gonna be conflicting opinion.

Good deal, I see more people that think Axl can do no right than people that think he can do no wrong though. This message board is dysfunctional.

Well, sorry you feel that way then.

Not your fault, you're the least of the cause. At least you're a fan of the band in your own way.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Its comforting knowing that Izzy will come to Axl or Slash whenever he needs cash.

[Apollo]

Its comforting knowing that Izzy will come to Axl or Slash whenever he needs cash.

Yeah... Izzy's living like a boss. He deserves it anyway, since Axl and Slash would be nothing today if it weren't for Izzy.

I hope you are kidding.

With Axl's voice he would have been successful. kip winger had hits. Britney fox had a hit. You don't think Axl would not have been in a successful band?

There are people that think Slash is the greatest guitar player alive. You think with his talent he never gets discovered?

Of the three, without GnR Izzy is the one who probably never would have become a known name. Even with the GnR name, how have his records sold?

Izzy was a key component to the success of GnR. but he isn't the absolute God some of u make him out to be.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Its comforting knowing that Izzy will come to Axl or Slash whenever he needs cash.

Yeah... Izzy's living like a boss. He deserves it anyway, since Axl and Slash would be nothing today if it weren't for Izzy.

I hope you are kidding.

With Axl's voice he would have been successful. kip winger had hits. Britney fox had a hit. You don't think Axl would not have been in a successful band?

There are people that think Slash is the greatest guitar player alive. You think with his talent he never gets discovered?

Of the three, without GnR Izzy is the one who probably never would have become a known name. Even with the GnR name, how have his records sold?

Izzy was a key component to the success of GnR. but he isn't the absolute God some of u make him out to be.

If Slash was never in GN'R, the universe would have ended in 1986. Slash is a fixed point in time.

[sailaway]

Well there you go, guy.

So what made you even bring this up out of nowhere? You brought that in here, and then decided that you didn't want to argue. So what was the point? Enlighten me.

The point was that you argue over the dumbest shit and I don't understand why. Why do you continue to argue things that can't be proven? 95% of the time you try to imply that other people are stupid for not agreeing with your assumed opinions. The whole purpose of this conversation was to help me understand why you do that?

How did I do that in this thread? I commended knife whatever for posting evidence to back up his claim. And then you came in here with the "five million crap".

Again, even after you came at me with that, I just gave my opinion, and why I thought that. Never stated it was fact, just that there's evidence to support otherwise. Kinda out of left field...

Your whole "Sometimes their passion for Axl blinds them from the reality of the situation." struck me as odd when you get blinded enough by your passion for whatever that you'll argue things that can't be proven. It made me curious.

You know there are people on here like that. As in, people that see Axl as the man can do now wrong, has never did any wrong, and won't do any wrong. Ever.

As for the 5 million thing, again, I don't get "blinded" by anything. It is what it is to me, and I call it like I see it. Not saying my opinion is the holy truth, but when people make claims and try to turn it as fact, I just counter, that it's not fact. It's a discussion board. Of coure there's gonna be conflicting opinion.

BoBo,you always seem so obsessed about the "amount of Albums sold" maybe if you stopped your e-music critic persona,and stopped repeating unproven facts,and actually attended a Real show you might change your tone.

Honestly,you somtimes sound like some secret bastard child of Mick Wall and Irving Azoff in a genetic experiment gone horribly wrong

Edited December 1, 2011 by sailaway

[sailaway]

He doesn't follow dictators or Ayatollah's.

Yeah, that's why he didn't want to be Slash's bitch in Velvet Revolver.

Great point.

The Axl haters always fail to mention that.

And they forget that Izzy has actually played with the current band on numerous occasions. Has he played with VR or on slash's solo tour?

That's not a great point... as I'm sure you know, the opposite is actually true which makes this ironic in a hilarious way. Izzy was totally down for VR, which means playing with Slash, until the idea of getting a new front-man/lead singer scared him off because of past relationships with lead singers (Axl). So, like I said, the opposite is true.

The rest of your post was addressed already. Not only did Izzy play live with VR but he recorded a song on Slash's solo album.

lol

Oh you're so full of shit. You wanna play? Is this srs bzns for you? Fine, I'll play. "Let's play" -Desperado

First of all, like I said before, I was counter-trolling SONOFABITCH. SONOFABITCH is a well known anti-Axl anti-Gnr anti-mygnrforum incessant moron whose entire existence is predicated upon trolling this board. Don't believe me? Go to gunsnfnroses.com, where they trash Gnr, and organize, yes organize trolling campaigns on this site. Although from my research, the number of actual cupcakes is fewer than one would think. I believe a lot of the cupcakes on this board are alts/socks of cowards and banned posters, most of them teenagers.

Second of all, Izzy was not "totally down for VR," you fucking liar. If you were any kind of GnR or VR historian, then you would've watched the well-circulated interview where Mr. Tophat himself said Izzy was too flighty to ever join VR. Whoops! In that same interview, Slash mentions that at some point it was getting a tad awkward for the rhythm guitarist in VR (the guy who looks like a member of the village people) because Izzy's status with the band was sort of ethereal. Everyone knows Izzy is a gypsy wanderer. And that's an apt description, as Izzy never had any intention to join VR, he just was jammin with some old buddies. So you can take your "totally down for VR" lie and shove it up your ass, no offense. ; )

Third of all, your other little lie about "the idea of getting a new front-man/lead singer scared him off" is a bunch of horseshit too. A steaming pile. Gee whillakers, golly gee there mister spin doctor, do ya think Izzy was under the impression there was going to be no singer in VR? Your premise is preposterous. If Izzy was gonna join VR from the get-go, he (and the rest of the universe except you) probably woulda thunk there was gonna be a singer. erp derp

Fourthly, and to dovetail with the the above point, ask yourself something, and try not to lie to yourself (or to us), what's the REAL reason Izzy didn't join VR? C'mon now, I know for some reason the truth bothers you, but let's be honest here since you're so focused on setting the record straight. Izzy had no intention of joining VR because he knew it (him joining) would basically validate all the exaggerations and heroin/alcohol-inspired mis-remembered bullshit Slash was incessantly spewing in the media at the time about Axl. Izzy knew that it would wound Axl. As the astute gnr historian that you are, I'm sure you know that Izzy and Axl were friends since childhood. Izzy knew that all the shit Slash said about Axl was skewed. Now, is Axl innocent and not culpable for the shenaniganry in the old days? Helll no. But what you and all the other Slasholes seem to be brainwashed into thinking is that Axl was the only one who contributed to the shenaniganry. That's horseshit. Lemme tell ya something, YOU try touring or working with raging alcoholics and heroin addicts. I don't blame Axl for some of his actions during 91-94. But let's be very clear, EACH member contributed in their own way to the break down and destabilization of the old band. Remember that, buddy.

Remember this, Izzy joined GnR on stage a few years ago to play a coupla songs. Oh what now brown cow? Did you notice that when Axl brought that up in the chats, he seemed to be almost hurt that Izzy had negotiated a big cash grab for those appearances with management, which Axl found out about later. You know why that possibly bothered Axl and was a little bit saddening? Because Izzy's his friend. If he wanted to come up on stage and jam, he could've contacted Axl and said "hey man, I need some dough, can I jam with y'all?" While his appearance with the band was special either way for all parties, both his and Axl's communication style (or lack thereof) and aloofness contributed to Axl feeling a bit bothered by the fact Izzy got an obscene amount of money to play with GnR unbeknownst to Axl. Obviously, Axl wasn't bothered that much and byond that those two have a lifelong friendship even if Izzy is a flighty gypsy (which Axl is keenly aware of). Now unlike you, I'll admit that this paragraph is speculation. But the point here is this: Axl and Izzy are friends. Suck on that. Izzy's not gonna dis his friend by joining VR. Duff and Matt (and top hat) weren't lifelong friends of Axl, just former bandmates.

Finally, go re-read Archer's post. He summed it up quite excellently and succinctly.

I love reading Popcorn's replies,the verbal diversity and terminology never fail to make me smile. It's accurate also.

Well done

[MishoGunsNRoses]

I really like an Izzy Stradlin song called Sweet Caress.

[eggers]

He was the heart and soul of the band.