What does Axl want from the label and vice-versa?

[TombRaider]

u mad bro?

[dalsh327]

So, reading through recent discussion, some people were talking about how difficult is to release music in a creative way under a label. I have the impression it's Axl who wouldn't want an "exotic" kind of release. I guess on his mind, songs don't work individually but as a whole.

It's got me thinking, what does Axl want from his label to finally release a new album? Assuming this is the real issue holding back the release of a new album and not Axl refusing/being not capable to release it.

I know what the label has always wanted: Reunion. What I also know is that they've probably given up by now. It's clear it won't happen, it's clear to us, it's gotta be pretty obvious for the people on the business as well. They must be aware this is GNR and that will never change. Or will they simply ignore the last years and keep trying and trying to get a reunion? Even knowing that GNR's current management is completely against a reunion?

Will the label lose money releasing a new album? Have they lost money on the CD release? What reasons would the label have NOT to release a new album besides an impossible reunion? What do they expect from Axl's band?

And... What does Axl want from the label? More money? More promotion? I don't even know what else the label could do besides that... Any ideas?

Why does Axl always mention the "work things out with the label" thing when he talks about future releases? What can they do for him?

Labels can't make reunions happen, and it's only in recent months that Axl had any reason to talk to anyone at Interscope, probably having to do with the DVD, and he still may not have directly talked to them.

As far as making money, they bank on the different ways people are getting their music and hope for the best. Things only turned around in the past couple of years as far as people buying music goes. There's also less complaining about the sound quality of downloads people are buying, esp. now that you have the ability to store your whole music library in a variety of places and have room for more. There's no reason someone should be selling 128 or 160, or even 192. The downloads should be at the point where the sound quality is better than on CD.

I think you're going to be at the point where a physical copy will just be Blu Ray and vinyl, no more compact discs, and it's only going to be for Deluxe Editions and reissues of classic albums. If there's a Deluxe of AFD, people are going to expect it to be a box set with all sorts of stuff in there.

[magisme]

What does Axl want? Probably a blank check.

What does the label want? Probably good music or a reunion.

Don't think anyone's getting their way without some major changes.

[Redhead74]

What does Axl want? Probably a blank check.

What does the label want? Probably good music or a reunion.

Don't think anyone's getting their way without some major changes.

It really is as simple as that. Achieving either one seems to be more complicated than negotiating a peace deal with the Palestinians, but in theory it really is that simple.

[wasted]

Axl wants money to finish off the record. Label wants to treat band that has been making money for them like shit. Release an unfinished album and keep touring.

[Rustycage]

Axl wants money to finish off the record. Label wants to treat band that has been making money for them like shit. Release an unfinished album and keep touring.

Do tell, how much did they profit from the 13 million best buy deal when it cost that much just to produce CD?

And you think they make money from GNR's tours?

Just how have GNR been making money for them?

[wasted]

They make money from the tours now yes. They didnt make much from CD but they made 100s of millions before giving Axl 14 mil. Dont let the labels kid you they make money. Labels take a cut of tour revenue now. Thats one card Axl actually has GNR is still a viable touring band.

Edited June 13, 2013 by wasted

[Rustycage]

They make money from the tours now yes. They didnt make much from CD but they made 100s of millions before giving Axl 14 mil. Dont let the labels kid you they make money.

How much do you think they're making from the tours? Is there something to back it up?

The hundreds of millions before CD would be the reason they'd rather wait it out. It's a cut throat business. You seem to think they should endorse nugnr out of favor.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Rustycage

[wasted]

I see the 14 mil as ust a little bit from all that money they made them in the 90s. Its nothing. 20 years later they balanced the books. People still got paid.

Now GNR is used as tour slaves cos the labels cant develop any new bands or even help the ones they have. The only bands still working for them are ones that signed deals with them in the 90s.

[Rustycage]

Bands tour for themselves, not the label. It's how the artists make the bulk of their money. Albums are for the label and tours are for the band. Again, you seem to think that the label should endorse them out of favor. That's not how they work.

[wasted]

Bands tour for themselves, not the label. It's how the artists make the bulk of their money. Albums are for the label and tours are for the band. Again, you seem to think that the label should endorse them out of favor. That's not how they work.

No I think they did give them 14 mil and they cant complain.

Labels take cut of tour revs nowadays. Things change. they always did the percent just went up.

[Rustycage]

Bands tour for themselves, not the label. It's how the artists make the bulk of their money. Albums are for the label and tours are for the band. Again, you seem to think that the label should endorse them out of favor. That's not how they work.

No I think they did give them 14 mil and they cant complain.

Labels take cut of tour revs nowadays. Things change. they always did the percent just went up.

Who gave who 14 million?

Why don't you provide some sources instead of making random claims. IF they provide tour support, they recoup it. They aren't profiting much from the tours. Not nearly as much as they do from record sales and they really didn't profit anything from the best buy deal.

Just how much do you think they are making from the tours? How about a source? They aren't going to give a shit about releasing records when they were raped by CD.

EDIT: we don't even know if they're providing tour support. Have you seen the quality of artwork coming out these days? It kinda looks like GNR are on their own for the most part.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Rustycage

[wasted]

In terms of who gets the money in the industry. 60% Record label, 20% distributors, 10% band. Sound like a great deal. Dont make me laugh.

[Rustycage]

In terms of who gets the money in the industry. 60% Record label, 20% distributors, 10% band. Sound like a great deal. Dont make me laugh.

You're citing a more than generous album contract. You do know the difference, right?

Edited June 13, 2013 by Rustycage

[wasted]

Thats kind of a general cut. I know that labels get cut of tour now. Newly signed bands get it in their contract.

[Rustycage]

Bands make dogshit from sales. Their money comes from Touring and merch. It has always been that way. The labels do not get 60% of the tour and you should have used some common sense to see that distributor percentage was your hint for it being a record deal.

It's tour support for new bands that sends a large percentage back to the record company. A new band can't fund a tour on their own so the label promises to cover the cost upfront, they will take care of the poromotion since the tour is in support of a new album and they will recoup it from the tour profits.

You're kinda winging it here.

[wasted]

Im always winging it. Im not trying to mislead you. Thats just what I thought. Im not some industry oracle. Labels dont 60 percent of tour but theyve started taking some. And its more profitable than record sales.

Which is kind of why they arent that interested in new GNR record and happy to keep them touring. They prob arent the evil empire but they dont have a great reputation.

[Rustycage]

Labels dont 60 percent of tour but theyve started taking some.

Got a source to how much you're claiming to where you can back up the suggestion they are making a lot of money?

And its more profitable than record sales.

For the band.

[wasted]

Labels dont 60 percent of tour but theyve started taking some.

Got a source to how much you're claiming to where you can back up the suggestion they are making a lot of money?

And its more profitable than record sales.

For the band.

I dont have a source other than what I read once.

So your saying label makes more from the record sales. Or they can be if they dont pay 14 mil up front.

So this would lead you to think that Axl is touring bcos its more profotable for them and isnt interested in a record bcos only the label really profits?

[Rustycage]

Labels dont 60 percent of tour but theyve started taking some.

Got a source to how much you're claiming to where you can back up the suggestion they are making a lot of money?

And its more profitable than record sales.

For the band.

I dont have a source other than what I read once.

Just find it again. I'm sorry but I hardly ever take someone's word for anything especially when it contradicts some very basic understandings of the music industry. Remembering the keywords and searching doesn't take long. It would be nice to get an idea of how much they really do make.

So your saying label makes more from the record sales. Or they can be if they dont pay 14 mil up front.

What? It doesn't matter how much they pay up front but it's common sense that the more you spend on a record, the smaller the profit will be. When they paid up to 14 million to produce CD and the best buy deal pretty much made them break even, it's obvious they didn't make much, if anything, because of Axl's procrastination. It's safe to assume that businessmen know not to fall for that again.

So this would lead you to think that Axl is touring bcos its more profotable for them and isnt interested in a record bcos only the label really profits?

Well it's obvious they're making money from touring but I'm not assuming all of the motives.

Maybe he only cares about touring. Sure. That may be why he sacrifices CD material more than other songs.

Maybe he's trying to convince them that there's still a market.

Maybe he's trying to show the label that he isn't irresponsible and can make an effort to get on stage on time and not cancel like before.

I don't know. I won't claim to. But I will say I'm sure that the band is doing fine with just touring for the time being. Even if they have to front their own costs, they still see a profit. I'm also sure that profit isn't anything like it used to be because the shows are much smaller than before. At some point, he's gotta release something and spark some more interest OR do what the record label wants and reunite for the big pay days. I don't think it's a stretch to think that they'd rather wait out this nostalgia touring instead of investing money in an unsure thing like a new nugnr album.

[wasted]

I think that not many records make a profit so labels will be careful what they release or spend on promo. Whereas the tour can make them money.

But surely Guns must sell 300k . Thats 3 mil. That could all be soaked up by promo or just the cost of getting out, made, studio costs.

Im not sure how much they can make from the record.

[wasted]

But worldwide sale of 3 mil. Thats 30 mil. How much of that is profit after they balance the books.

[Rustycage]

I think that not many records make a profit so labels will be careful what they release or spend on promo. Whereas the tour can make them money.

They can spend a few hundred thousand dollars on less bloated productions, sell a few million, front tour costs, recoup it at the end and have a pretty good profit. Obviously not as much as before due to downloading. That's why we have so much manufactured garbage acts like Justin Bieber. Album sales, dvd sales and all of that shit is a much better investment than a band that only has 1 original member, that has a history of a poor work ethic and procrastinated the last record that brought them hardly any profit. They don't have to just release anything because Axl wants them to. It's a private business. They can't be forced to release what they consider crap(if they do) and I'm sure the contracts protect them.

If they released a nugnr album without further production costs, front the tour, promote it and they could hopefully see profit somewhere in the lower part of 8 figures after tour recoup. That's the best case scenario if the new one sold as much as CD which wasn't groundbreaking and had it's own mythical hype. Crowds are getting smaller and the demand for new material is mostly from the diehards and the diehards don't make up the bulk of the large album sales from big hit bands. The time for GNR(a rock band) to have a huge hit that would increase sales drastically has passed.

They know where the bigger profit would be. A reunion. I'm not saying that's what should be done by Axl or anything but it's pretty simple. That's where the money will be.

We'd need to know the terms of their deal to get a better perspective. If this is the last record owed to the label, they know if they folded to a nugnr record and released it, any future reunion would be lost potential profit without a new deal where they could end up negotiating again with GNR having the upper hand again.

But surely Guns must sell 300k . Thats 3 mil. That could all be soaked up by promo or just the cost of getting out, made, studio costs.

And that is possibly why everything has stalled.

They broke even from CD. They no longer need the contingency plan to recoup production costs. That ball is in GNR's court now. The label has the upper hand at this point, IMO.

Im not sure how much they can make from the record.

It's minimal profit and that's most likely the hangup. They know where the big money is and they aren't desperate to make money from GNR anymore since they recouped from CD. They've probably written them off and are waiting for the big money reunion.

They don't HAVE to do GNR any favors. Especially when it's not as profitable now as it could be.

When you think about it, there could be a good reason why the band hasn't jumped into the studio. It could be the same reason we see Dizzy and DJ hanging out together doing some mixing themselves or hear about DJ doing his own thing at home. The label probably isn't supporting another production. Axl is getting some heat from the excessive touring but it may be for negotiating purposes. It may not. Only they know. But he shit the bed when he procrastinated CD and it has come back to haunt him.

This is what I wonder when the subject is brought up.

But worldwide sale of 3 mil. Thats 30 mil. How much of that is profit after they balance the books.

Most likely the lower part of 8 figures. Maybe less. That's if they would be lucky enough to achieve the same amount of sales of CD. Which, IMO, wouldn't happen. The crowds and demand are getting smaller.

[wasted]

I think this kind of explains why CD never came out. With them 14 mil in the hole and no way of telling how it would sell.

Same could be said with the next record. Very few records make a profit. So touring although not as lucrative it still makes money for the label and the band. A record seems like a big hassle commercially which you have to get just right.

But having said that the record will be out this year and sell 2 mil in a week.

[Rustycage]

I think this kind of explains why CD never came out. With them 14 mil in the hole and no way of telling how it would sell.

Same could be said with the next record. Very few records make a profit. So touring although not as lucrative it still makes money for the label and the band. A record seems like a big hassle commercially which you have to get just right.

They still make money as long as the disappointing record isn't considered the most expensive album ever(CD).

CD isn't in the same league as the majority of typical albums. It can't be looked at in the same way. The most expensive album with a broken lineup with an erratic frontman procrastinating it.

You can keep claiming that the tour makes a lot of money for the label until you're blue in the face but I think you're making it up. Provide your source that labels now make a lot of money of band tours.

But having said that the record will be out this year and sell 2 mil in a week.

Riiiiight. The demand for a nugnr album isn't what it was for CD. The shows have gotten smaller. That's wishful thinking on your part and you can be sure the label isn't doing any more wishful thinking about album sales for this version of the band.