What does Axl want from the label and vice-versa?

[wasted]

Im daying a record could potentially make nothing. Whereas the tour makes a little bit. Especially for a band like GNR that touring non stop. There will never be a source, im probably just making it up.

But Ive learned quite a lot. Its pretty complex but then add GNR and its a nightmare.

But i think we agree the profitability of the next record is questionable. And touring is where Axl makes his money.

Seems GNR is fucked. But maybe they spin the wheel one last time. Hope the record does ok and keep touring.

[DieselDaisy]

The money a label makes from a tour is only indirect through album sales. In theory the artist tours to increase the exposure of the record which people then buy. Then, when the company feel the record has reached its maximum sales, they pull the tour and prepare for album #2 and the process begins again. Interscope cannot be happy with Axl. He is touring on endless nostalgia tours. He is not using Chinese imagery on the tour nomenclature, merchandising and stage shows. These tours are not geared to promote Chinese Democracy. I know that one of the tour posters had a picture of the 'Greatest Hits' on it which was surely the record company's attempt to benefit from the tours.

[Rustycage]

At least it's bringing Axl back down to Earth. As long as the hangers-on don't feed the delusions.

Build the bridge to the fans, let them know the intentions(progressive or nostalgic) and fucking use the band to become happy instead of using it to be a vindictive asshole.

[alfierose]

Seeing as a lot of concert attendees are casual fans or festival crowds I expect the Greatest Hits compilation benefits sales wise a lot. It would be interesting to know which is currently downloaded most GH or AFD.

[Rustycage]

All of that "definite maybe" stuff could have been funny 20 years ago but all it does today is piss your fanbase off.

[wasted]

The tour do boost sales of all albums. But it seems like the artist is kind of in a better position. They can make money touring. While labels are finding it hard.

Hopefully the label sees enough profit in anothwr record but probably not. What about a best of?

Could that fulfill the contract and release GNR to go indepedent.

[DieselDaisy]

We do not know what sort of contract Axl-Interscope have. We do not know if Axl is breeching a contract or if there is a clause on a future record that Interscope have to fufill. My theory is that Axl will have to renegotiate with Interscope for a future album, i.e. they have Axl on a sort of, album to album contract. But they are still benefitting having Axl, a creativly dead artist in effect, on the roster as they still shift units of Appetite and Greatest Hit.

[Rustycage]

The tour do boost sales of all albums. But it seems like the artist is kind of in a better position. They can make money touring. While labels are finding it hard.

Hopefully the label sees enough profit in anothwr record but probably not. What about a best of?

Could that fulfill the contract and release GNR to go indepedent.

It's not as hard for labels as you think. These manufactured artists are good for them and any sales go through the label whether it be Itunes or traditional album sales. Downloading is getting tougher with the loss of demonoid trackers and the potential for your ISP to cut you.

They're appealing to kids who use mommy and daddy's credit cards to buy their music.

Itunes has sold over 25 billion songs and they still receive their same cut from the sales. It's still a billion dollar a year industry just from Itunes alone. Don't be foolish to think they aren't still big business.

[DieselDaisy]

Yes I agree. Also do not forgot the money record companies receieve from the licensing of the master recordings (ads, computer games, films).

[maynard]

Cds are dead, labels will still make billions, i think we can all agree on that.

the ideal scenario would be the AFD dvd being the final release for interscope and then Axl going indie, releasing whatever he wants. that would be the smart thing to do. deluxe editions, double albums... the guy can still make a lot of money, tha fanbase will surely pay any price for new releases, specially if they have some extra bonuses.

[netcat]

well its clear there's no use asking Axl what's going on. But i dont understand why some rolling stone or spin or whoever won't investigate the subject, ask some people from the label, collect some rumors? i dont believe that noone gives a f**

[maynard]

well its clear there's no use asking Axl what's going on. But i dont understand why some rolling stone or spin or whoever won't investigate the subject, ask some people from the label, collect some rumors? i dont believe that noone gives a f**

it's sad how the press doesn't give a fuck about axl anymore.

[Uncle Bob]

Sex.

[Guest charlie555]

In terms of who gets the money in the industry. 60% Record label, 20% distributors, 10% band. Sound like a great deal. Dont make me laugh.

Ah, nah. First off that only adds to 90% lol. Secondly record labels earn nothing from touring at all. If they have residual rights (which are usually owned by a subsidiary of the label or JV between an artist/songwriter/label) then they might get a tiny percentage every time material is played on tour but it is bugger all. Touring is money for (a) the band and (b) the promoter.

I highly doubt (having worked in the touring and band management industry for some time) that GnR tour that profitably. Albeit I have absolutely no idea of their finances but look at the facts:

Say in a good week GnR play two shows on a 'UCAP' type tour which is intended to be the most profitable type (due to reduced operating costs etc.). Both to crowds of 4,000 (thats generous to them too) so 8,000 'paying' ppl. NB I do not know exact GnR figures but from comparable bands I would assume the following:

- So we have total Revenue at $90 per ticket (about what you would get after booking and agents fee, and venue fees, if SP is $140+) of $720,000 for arguments sake.

- Immediately deduct at least $100k per show for the promoter (i.e. $200k). So that leaves about $600,000 in gross profit.

- Now consider the immediate expenses - Equipment rental (about $40,000 per week say), Tour Bus Rental x 3 buses (about $1k per day from memory for the type they use so $21k x 3 = $63,000 - this includes drivers salary and fuel), Cargo Truck rental x 6 (about $12k per week each with crew so $72,000), Crew salaries (GnR has about 30 tech staff for the show so theres about $40,000 per week minimum), Crew Incidental Per Diem (say $75 per day each so about $15,000) Band Salary (fixed portion $30k plus performance bonus of $1k+ each per show say $12k = $42,000), Hotels for band and crew (say 45 people at about $150 per night x 5 nights = $34,000), Insurance (massively expensive for that many people given the liability, about $50k per show so $100,000), Other incidentals (say $50,000) = Total Expenses of $456,000 per week.

= Total Gross Profit is therefore $600,000 less $456,000 = $144,000 less tax @ 39% = $87,840 per week profit. So if you figure six good weeks of touring then thats only $527,040.

(this also doesn't include management fees etc. and many other things).

Who knows what the real figures are. But I hardly think that touring is the profitable enterprise many assume for a band playing to only 4,000. The idea with touring is to get economies of sale, for example, if Taylor Swift can sell 20,000 tickets per show and do two a week while bussing around the US with the same expenses as above then the extra 12,000 ticket sales revenue essentially goes into her back pocket (less deductibles).

The key is scale.

[shotgunblues1978]

The label only gets a percentage of touring money if the band is signed to a 360 deal. GnR doesn't have a 360 deal, so that doesn't really apply here.

From what I've heard, Axl is holding out for a larger marketing budget (e.g. advertising campaign, a decent budget for a music video, etc.).

The label knows that they can release the album and sell 2-3 million copies worldwide without a big marketing campaign. This is what they want to do; they don't want to invest a lot of money marketing an album from an aging rockband with a large global fanbase, when they could instead spend it marketing younger, more pop oriented acts, where the marketing would return a higher return.

Additionally, I've heard that GnR has multiple albums left on their deal, so they won't turn GnR into free agents by releasing the next album.

The people saying that the label aren't interested in releasing a new GnR album are high (or trolling). CD was the #14 selling album worldwide in 2008, and was only out 5 weeks that year. Even if the followup only sells half of what CD did, it would still sell more than 99.9% of the albums released these days. The label would love to release a new GnR album comprised of existing songs, since it would essentially be pure profit for them (less distribution and marketing costs). However, they can't force Axl to release the album. And he can't force them to agree to the marketing budget and campaign that he wants. This is where they've been for a couple of years.

Additionally, there's not much financial incentive for Axl to release the album, aside from perhaps some amount of rejuvenated interest in future tours. His comment in 2009 was that they hoped to be working CD for a good while before focusing on a new record. They've been touring on and off for 3.5 years, so hopefully he's decided it is time to release the next album.

[wasted]

Lots of great info here. Its pretty hard to find this stuff out as regular fan.

On one hand label still make lots of money but they are unwilling to front Axl or anyone money and rightly so based on what youve said.

Based on CD they could possibly sell 3 mil world wide with constant touring. So that could be ok for them without much risk.

What i dont get is why Axl wants bigger marketing budget or is that interested in sales ias the labels 60 percent, band 10 approx. The for them is in touring. Is it to present better account of the record or for videos for fans. I guess having a hit record has knock on effect and makes band more viable. CD could have sold more with some videos?

Both sides seem to have a reason to hold out.

Would GNR be better going independent? The label at this point isnt much use to the band they look for the easiest way to make a profit.

I really think should just go with the flow. Just get the material out. Getting stuck in battle with label just too much hassle.

[maynard]

Lots of great info here. Its pretty hard to find this stuff out as regular fan.

On one hand label still make lots of money but they are unwilling to front Axl or anyone money and rightly so based on what youve said.

Based on CD they could possibly sell 3 mil world wide with constant touring. So that could be ok for them without much risk.

What i dont get is why Axl wants bigger marketing budget or is that interested in sales ias the labels 60 percent, band 10 approx. The for them is in touring. Is it to present better account of the record or for videos for fans. I guess having a hit record has knock on effect and makes band more viable. CD could have sold more with some videos?

Both sides seem to have a reason to hold out.

Would GNR be better going independent? The label at this point isnt much use to the band they look for the easiest way to make a profit.

I really think should just go with the flow. Just get the material out. Getting stuck in battle with label just too much hassle.

i agree with your last statement. just do it for the fans, screw the money...

[Naupis]

Would GNR be better going independent?

It's impossible at this point as the label owns all the CD material and Axl would never pay what they would want to get out of the contract.

He would be worse off than he is now, as he would be out a ton of money from having bought himself out of the old recording contract and with his reputation no one would give them a nickel up front to record anything.

He would have to pay for all recording costs of new material knowing that sales wouldn't be terribly high given how the world is now in regards to that.

He has put himself in no mans land, and has no one to blame but himself.

It sucks for him and the fans he has no good options, but ultimately that is what he was going for by behaving the way he did during the recording of CD and subsequent release. He insured no one would ever give him another dime for anything up front with the shit he pulled by refusing to finish the album in a timely way and then refusing to promote it.

[wasted]

Lots of great info here. Its pretty hard to find this stuff out as regular fan.

On one hand label still make lots of money but they are unwilling to front Axl or anyone money and rightly so based on what youve said.

Based on CD they could possibly sell 3 mil world wide with constant touring. So that could be ok for them without much risk.

What i dont get is why Axl wants bigger marketing budget or is that interested in sales ias the labels 60 percent, band 10 approx. The for them is in touring. Is it to present better account of the record or for videos for fans. I guess having a hit record has knock on effect and makes band more viable. CD could have sold more with some videos?

Both sides seem to have a reason to hold out.

Would GNR be better going independent? The label at this point isnt much use to the band they look for the easiest way to make a profit.

I really think should just go with the flow. Just get the material out. Getting stuck in battle with label just too much hassle.

i agree with your last statement. just do it for the fans, screw the money...

Well, this is where the problems come in. From what I've learnt. Label is all about album sales, that's there bread and butter. So going back to CD, now I see it was the label delaying the record, cos it wasn't going to recoup. so nobody wanted to touch it.

So any delay with the next one is really the label. But in this case no 14 mil anchor to the bottom of the ocean on this one. So 3 mil sales means 30 mil, virtually all profit without any promo money video.

Maybe Axl sees this and is like can you give us a few mil for videos?

Personally, I would say fuck videos, don't do any promo, just do whatever it takes to get the record out to the fans, then get on the tour and make the money.

[wasted]

Would GNR be better going independent?

It's impossible at this point as the label owns all the CD material and Axl would never pay what they would want to get out of the contract.

He would be worse off than he is now, as he would be out a ton of money from having bought himself out of the old recording contract and with his reputation no one would give them a nickel up front to record anything.

He would have to pay for all recording costs of new material knowing that sales wouldn't be terribly high given how the world is now in regards to that.

He has put himself in no mans land, and has no one to blame but himself.

It sucks for him and the fans he has no good options, but ultimately that is what he was going for by behaving the way he did during the recording of CD and subsequent release. He insured no one would ever give him another dime for anything up front with the shit he pulled by refusing to finish the album in a timely way and then refusing to promote it.

But he would be better off independent, if he could get out of the contract.

I don't think Axl behaved badly in the lead up to CD. It's obvious the label just werent going to profit from the release of CD. Axl would have put out a triple and toured in my opinion. He gets money from the touring.

Axl one mistake was to think he could just start GNR with a new line up. And that just dogged him. Fans may be give him benfit of doubt but label must have been like wtf. Trying to launch new GNR with guy with Bucket on his head while getting sued for the name is kind of priceless.