What does Axl want from the label and vice-versa?

[maynard]

I believe he received that 13 million budget to work in tons of songs, not only 14 so I guess demanding money is simply a ridiculous demand from him and I just don't believe it's the case. CD promotion was ok for a rock album, Axl on the other hand, didn't do anything to promote it.

I think the label did/does all they can, if current GNR is all they've got they will try to get some profit from it. Also, they own the old catalogue, so Best Ofs will always compensate for possible failures from New GNR...

It's annoying to keep blaming Axl about everything but I don't see the label not doing their part of the agreement...

[wasted]

I think you have to sell a significant amout of records to make a profit. So its not that exciting for the label. If they have to front up promo money. I dont know how much videos cost but even if they do a cheap one its still money that wont be recouped. So keeping the band on tour is more profitable for everyone. A record will be seen by label as way to spark interest in tour. We arent quite at that point yet. But it might be getting closer.

Then some of the band seem to want to record so the label might not want to pay for that when theres already material.

In one interview Axl seemed to be saying theyve recorded theyll see what they want to use.

But if the label wont offer up video money.. maybe its a mexican stand off. A matter of principle.

Maybe the material isnt that commercial either.

Thwy arent a streamlined commercial band like BJ.

Atlas was called a glam rock Nov Rain. and Zutaut saw it as a single. One decent single with a video would be enough to promo the album.

If the band want studio then that could be a problem.

TB may want money for CD era stuff which the label think they already paid for.

Given that neither wants to get fucked on the deal. And label are happy for them to just tour and Guns wont sell cheap. It could take a while.

Edited June 13, 2013 by wasted

[jimb0]

Axl wants a lifetime supply of cheesy gravy fries

[wasted]

Dont we all?

[jimb0]

I don't think that's necessarily the scenario. My guess would be that Axl wants a significant amount of more funding for whatever than the label is willing to give for the current outfit at this point. But personally, I don't think Axl has the drive to try anymore regardless.

After 14 Million the dude couldn't even get off his couch to promote the release. Totally pathetic.

[arnold layne]

The label most likely doesn't want anything to do with him at this point.

Not only is Axl a notorious douche, but he has nothing to offer the label financially now that the nineties were twenty years ago.

[wasted]

It cost 10 mil to get RTB to rerecord everything and they seemed to waste a lot of the orginal 4 mil.

In the end the label didnt release CD. They avoid it til they got the Best Buy deal. Seemed like Axl may have wanted to put out the material differently with videos, maybe two records. But they sold it off to BB and tried to get a reunion tour set up.

So no support for Axls band. Never really any intention to put the record out.

[Naupis]

So no support for Axls band. Never really any intention to put the record out.

Can you blame them?

They gave him that record deal thinking they were getting Guns N' Roses, never realizing they would ultimately be funding Axl's solo project under the guise of being GNR.

Axl has said he kept the name because of the financial benefits of the recording contract, so I don't blame the company for having zero interest in him.

He pulled a classic bait and switch on them, and has spent the past 15 years paying for it.

[maynard]

i still think the label promoted CD just fine for what it is and I believe they would have no problem releasing another gnr album, they'd get some money for something is already paid off, considering that they release what's in axl's vault. imo, it's axl who's demanding too much from interscope.

[wasted]

So no support for Axls band. Never really any intention to put the record out.

Can you blame them?

They gave him that record deal thinking they were getting Guns N' Roses, never realizing they would ultimately be funding Axl's solo project under the guise of being GNR.

Axl has said he kept the name because of the financial benefits of the recording contract, so I don't blame the company for having zero interest in him.

He pulled a classic bait and switch on them, and has spent the past 15 years paying for it.

I think thats possibly true from their pov. The intial advance of 4 mil was for the Orginal uyi band.

It doesnt make sense that they rejected the Bucket line up album. Then gave Axl another 10 mil to rerecord with RTB. That to me seems like support an attempt to do Axls version of GNR go for more Queen epics.

But then in the end they wouldnt support the release. Once they drove Bucket out that kind of destroyed it. Maybe they were hoping Slash would come back.

The label didnt support the Bucket trilogy concept. Since then its been a salvage operation. The reunion money is just too huge to ignore.

[jellyzero]

I think the main issue is Axl wants to call all the shouts and swim around in a pile of cash like it is still '91. People don't buy albums like they used to, music videos are practically made to be viewed on youtube, and most artists don't get these insane amounts of money towards making an album because it is way too cheap and easy to make an album these days. There are a few artists out there (Taylor Swift, Katy Perry) that get these kind of perks and advances and it pays the record company back in spades but Axl is no longer one of them.

[wasted]

What Im saying above is meant be context to current situation. What has changed? I think its not unreasonable to want some video money from the label. The label didnt do anything to promo CD. Azoff failed to book tour and went for reunion.

So now why would anyrhing change? they may be refusing to put any money to either finish off material, nothing for vids, nothing for promo. Just put it out and tour.

Only positive from label pov is Dj. He brings 100k sales more. But how do use that if Dj doesnt write with Axl.

[alfierose]

If he had a hand in the production of the finished album then that would give them an angle to work with and something for DJ to legitimately promote as his work.

[Guest charlie555]

From what I have heard (believe me or not, don't give a s$#%) it is not a case of the label not wanting to release an album - Label's will do whatever will make them money.

At this point they have a sunk cost and any revenue is incremental to them (above the cost of printing and shipping the record). Axl wants more money to record - label believe that because they have paid for 30+ songs they should be ready for release, and if Axl wants to tinker he can pay for it with his own money. It is not necessarily a case of Axl wanting money in terms of cash, just money to pay to have parts tinkered with and rerecorded with Slashba etc. But in the label's view the songs should be (and physically are) ready for release.

Nobody's fault - just an impasse where different people have different wants and views. Happens all the time.

[wasted]

So nothing has changed really from when they cut Axl off in the making of CD. There will probably be no video money or money for promotion. I think a new record would be a big enough thing to attract attention and with Dj, if he can have some sort of input into it. Whether it's Ballad of Death or a track, that will help. It will be better than CD in the US on a general release.

But you get the feeling Axl won't be happy with it, he'll want to finish it off, maybe even replace some parts with Dj. Maybe get one original song from the current band at least. Maybe from the label's pov half the people won't care if it's Bucket or Ron, Finck or Dj and most won't feel the staleness of CD II. We probably will, looking at it closer and maybe Dj or Ron will feel a bit more uncomfortable. Axl wants to do the right thing in my opinion. This line up deserves to get something. But this is business.

Axl seemed quite casual about it, theyve recorded they'll so hopefully they don't make too much of a big deal out it and can move forward with this thing before someone quits and the whol thing goes tits up again.

[Guest charlie555]

So nothing has changed really from when they cut Axl off in the making of CD. There will probably be no video money or money for promotion. I think a new record would be a big enough thing to attract attention and with Dj, if he can have some sort of input into it. Whether it's Ballad of Death or a track, that will help. It will be better than CD in the US on a general release.

But you get the feeling Axl won't be happy with it, he'll want to finish it off, maybe even replace some parts with Dj. Maybe get one original song from the current band at least. Maybe from the label's pov half the people won't care if it's Bucket or Ron, Finck or Dj and most won't feel the staleness of CD II. We probably will, looking at it closer and maybe Dj or Ron will feel a bit more uncomfortable. Axl wants to do the right thing in my opinion. This line up deserves to get something. But this is business.

Axl seemed quite casual about it, theyve recorded they'll so hopefully they don't make too much of a big deal out it and can move forward with this thing before someone quits and the whol thing goes tits up again.

The label never cut Axl off. But, when they saw that there was 1+ fully completed album ready and mastered, and Axl still wasn't happy to release it without constant re-recording of the revolving door of artists, they decided to stop advancing cash to him (rightly so in my opinion but everyone has their views).

Yes the label may only care about dollars, but they had a vested interest in releasing CD to make a profit. When the cost started to become ridiculous that was when the money stopped.

[alfierose]

I can see why the label would think like this if the original money laid out was for 2-3 albums worth of stuff as per the trilogy vision. I can also see why Axl would want to give the current band some input. If this is the case he has got himself into a bit of a catch22 situation by owning the brand GnR because from a legal perspective he now is GnR and the label probably don't care who else is in the band, they know it could change at any moment therefore any 'what about my band arguments' probably fall on deaf ears.

That said maybe he doesn't care about re recording parts. DJ has a studio it wouldn't cost that much to pay for it themselves but knowing Axl I can see him being really stubborn about it.

[rosesforcure]

Honestly a reunion would be great! The split was because a new project n vision of Axl but for just one fucking album the ride doesnt pay off!!!

For this escenario a reunion itd be great.

The new thing doesnt have that killing energy. Its never been more boring. Its quite predictable band!!!

Crash diet, Goodnight Tonight, Shadow of your love could be a great start. Just IMO

[wasted]

So nothing has changed really from when they cut Axl off in the making of CD. There will probably be no video money or money for promotion. I think a new record would be a big enough thing to attract attention and with Dj, if he can have some sort of input into it. Whether it's Ballad of Death or a track, that will help. It will be better than CD in the US on a general release.

But you get the feeling Axl won't be happy with it, he'll want to finish it off, maybe even replace some parts with Dj. Maybe get one original song from the current band at least. Maybe from the label's pov half the people won't care if it's Bucket or Ron, Finck or Dj and most won't feel the staleness of CD II. We probably will, looking at it closer and maybe Dj or Ron will feel a bit more uncomfortable. Axl wants to do the right thing in my opinion. This line up deserves to get something. But this is business.

Axl seemed quite casual about it, theyve recorded they'll so hopefully they don't make too much of a big deal out it and can move forward with this thing before someone quits and the whol thing goes tits up again.

The label never cut Axl off. But, when they saw that there was 1+ fully completed album ready and mastered, and Axl still wasn't happy to release it without constant re-recording of the revolving door of artists, they decided to stop advancing cash to him (rightly so in my opinion but everyone has their views).

Yes the label may only care about dollars, but they had a vested interest in releasing CD to make a profit. When the cost started to become ridiculous that was when the money stopped.

I think that's what I meant by cut off. I don't mean they stopped talking to him or dropped the band. Axl financed some of the final touches himself.

I don't think it's about if what the label does is right or wrong. But guess from what they did with CD, you can guess that if there's finished stuff they just want to put it out and make some more money off those CD era tracks, or whatever they are.

I think the band and record would prob benefit from a final go at it.

I guess when and if the touring ever stops then we'll see. Given Axl's reputation you'd expect him to want add more. But how much would this record make for the label?

[alfierose]

I'm sure any record they put out will make money for the label but if to their mind they already stumped up the cash for the songs a decade ago I can see why they might play hard ball. I doubt the label is in a hurry, they probably have plenty of other current artists raking it in for them.

[Guest charlie555]

So nothing has changed really from when they cut Axl off in the making of CD. There will probably be no video money or money for promotion. I think a new record would be a big enough thing to attract attention and with Dj, if he can have some sort of input into it. Whether it's Ballad of Death or a track, that will help. It will be better than CD in the US on a general release.

But you get the feeling Axl won't be happy with it, he'll want to finish it off, maybe even replace some parts with Dj. Maybe get one original song from the current band at least. Maybe from the label's pov half the people won't care if it's Bucket or Ron, Finck or Dj and most won't feel the staleness of CD II. We probably will, looking at it closer and maybe Dj or Ron will feel a bit more uncomfortable. Axl wants to do the right thing in my opinion. This line up deserves to get something. But this is business.

Axl seemed quite casual about it, theyve recorded they'll so hopefully they don't make too much of a big deal out it and can move forward with this thing before someone quits and the whol thing goes tits up again.

The label never cut Axl off. But, when they saw that there was 1+ fully completed album ready and mastered, and Axl still wasn't happy to release it without constant re-recording of the revolving door of artists, they decided to stop advancing cash to him (rightly so in my opinion but everyone has their views).

Yes the label may only care about dollars, but they had a vested interest in releasing CD to make a profit. When the cost started to become ridiculous that was when the money stopped.

I think that's what I meant by cut off. I don't mean they stopped talking to him or dropped the band. Axl financed some of the final touches himself.

I don't think it's about if what the label does is right or wrong. But guess from what they did with CD, you can guess that if there's finished stuff they just want to put it out and make some more money off those CD era tracks, or whatever they are.

I think the band and record would prob benefit from a final go at it.

I guess when and if the touring ever stops then we'll see. Given Axl's reputation you'd expect him to want add more. But how much would this record make for the label?

Record would probably generate a bit of profit - if the label gets their way and can put out the current version of the new songs then there is essentially no recording cost on their part (Best Buy and international agency deals essentially paid off the production).

As for royalties - most labels insist on making a certain sales level these days before the artists get any money from the release. Just the way the business is - nobody buys CDs anymore. Touring is where the cash is (if you can do it profitably - with a crew of 60 and crowds of <5000 its very very hard)...

[Guest NGOG]

The ideal scenario for the label, who aren't driven by aristry, would be a reunion as it would garner the greatest amount of capital quite easily. Assuming they have grown to accept that a reunion is not a realistic objective given Axl's adamance that such an arrangement will not happen, what they could next push for would be a digestable record with commercial appeal.

I can only speculate as to Axl's agenda but would seem he'd like to push the remaining material from the Chinese sessions. There is a obviously a more recent degree of compromise to Axl's mentality however as I feel Dj Ashba has been recruited with the specific purpose of inducing digestable guitars.

[Guest charlie555]

The ideal scenario for the label, who aren't driven by aristry, would be a reunion as it would garner the greatest amount of capital quite easily. Assuming they have grown to accept that a reunion is not a realistic objective given Axl's adamance that such an arrangement will not happen, what they could next push for would be a digestable record with commercial appeal.

I can only speculate as to Axl's agenda but would seem he'd like to push the remaining material from the Chinese sessions. There is a obviously a more recent degree of compromise to Axl's mentality however as I feel Dj Ashba has been recruited with the specific purpose of inducing digestable guitars.

The label would only be interested in a reunion if (a) the reunited band recorded new music or (b) the reunion kick started sales of the back catalogue. Although if you look at some of the more recent reunions it didn't really have a material effect.

Agree that Axl wants to focus on the CD sessions - he just needs to be realistic and release the recordings without a Slashba/Bumblefoot contribution.

[wasted]

So nothing has changed really from when they cut Axl off in the making of CD. There will probably be no video money or money for promotion. I think a new record would be a big enough thing to attract attention and with Dj, if he can have some sort of input into it. Whether it's Ballad of Death or a track, that will help. It will be better than CD in the US on a general release.

But you get the feeling Axl won't be happy with it, he'll want to finish it off, maybe even replace some parts with Dj. Maybe get one original song from the current band at least. Maybe from the label's pov half the people won't care if it's Bucket or Ron, Finck or Dj and most won't feel the staleness of CD II. We probably will, looking at it closer and maybe Dj or Ron will feel a bit more uncomfortable. Axl wants to do the right thing in my opinion. This line up deserves to get something. But this is business.

Axl seemed quite casual about it, theyve recorded they'll so hopefully they don't make too much of a big deal out it and can move forward with this thing before someone quits and the whol thing goes tits up again.

The label never cut Axl off. But, when they saw that there was 1+ fully completed album ready and mastered, and Axl still wasn't happy to release it without constant re-recording of the revolving door of artists, they decided to stop advancing cash to him (rightly so in my opinion but everyone has their views).

Yes the label may only care about dollars, but they had a vested interest in releasing CD to make a profit. When the cost started to become ridiculous that was when the money stopped.

I think that's what I meant by cut off. I don't mean they stopped talking to him or dropped the band. Axl financed some of the final touches himself.

I don't think it's about if what the label does is right or wrong. But guess from what they did with CD, you can guess that if there's finished stuff they just want to put it out and make some more money off those CD era tracks, or whatever they are.

I think the band and record would prob benefit from a final go at it.

I guess when and if the touring ever stops then we'll see. Given Axl's reputation you'd expect him to want add more. But how much would this record make for the label?

Record would probably generate a bit of profit - if the label gets their way and can put out the current version of the new songs then there is essentially no recording cost on their part (Best Buy and international agency deals essentially paid off the production).

As for royalties - most labels insist on making a certain sales level these days before the artists get any money from the release. Just the way the business is - nobody buys CDs anymore. Touring is where the cash is (if you can do it profitably - with a crew of 60 and crowds of <5000 its very very hard)...

How much do you think they make from the record?

i guess with a reunion they would make more but not for long. Theres no assurance how long theyd tour. I doubt if a reunion record had mediocre sales theyd tour the world three times. Thered prob be a lot of finger pointing and another split.

I think Duff, Izzy, Steven coukd only do once around the world.

[yourcrazy]

^{There will be no reunion! Anyone who thinks otherwise should seek help. If he wants to release new music, he can find a way to make it happen. The current trend is to release it on their own label and market it on the internet. Seems like they could move ahead if they want.}