when presented with these contracts, slash shoulda

[TombRaider]

I wonder if you've ever met someone that's just impossible to talk to when they're pissed off. I've had to deal with people like that in my life. If they're pissed, they won't listen, they just won't. And the more you try to talk to them, the angrier they get. Duff does say in his book that perhaps they should have confronted Axl about his being late all the time, but then again, and I am not taking sides here, maybe they thought it was useless. It's no secret that Axl is a violent person. Maybe they thought that by bringing it up, they were gonna make things worse. Maybe they thought Axl would fly off the handle and start lashing out at them. Who knows?

[useyorappetite]

they were on tour for two years. maybe you're mistaking axl for hulk. have you read duffs book? he says if they did confront axl they'd have to confront their own drug issues. considering it was one of slashs reasons for quitting the band you'd think he did whatever he could about it.

[TombRaider]

I did read Duff's book. I didn't remember the part about having to confront their own issues though

[alfierose]

they were on tour for two years. maybe you're mistaking axl for hulk. have you read duffs book? he says if they did confront axl they'd have to confront their own drug issues. considering it was one of slashs reasons for quitting the band you'd think he did whatever he could about it.

I remember that bit, it was honest of Duff to admit it even in retrospect. Not saying Axl's issues weren't a problem but if Slash and Duff had their own lives under control then some compromise might have been found even if it was just taking a hiatus for a couple of years. Probably at that point the idea of staying off the radar for a while seemed ludicrous to everyone but considering just how long fans have waited for GNR post 96 I doubt it would have mattered at all.

[DieselDaisy]

I would say PC sounds more like a Slash song. Slash/Stradlin. But that's the thing with Slash he can play on another persons song and make it sound like his. Izzy may not have been in the studio when they recorded it.

'Alright, this is a new one, by Mr Izzy Stradlin, this one is called ''Perfect Fucking Crime'''.

- Axl, (October 31st 1986, Ackerman Ballroom)

Izzy is credited with rhythm guitar on 'Perfect Crime'.

Back Off Bitch sounds very Slash led song.

Well Slash did contribute a new guitar part to 'Back Off Bitch' when he was in New Hollywood Rose. This is from when Axl was in LA Guns:

'Slash and Axl weren't talking at the time. In fact, I remember Axl calling Slash around this time and asking him to teach Tracii the new guitar parts to ''Back Off Bitch'', which Slash had written.'' (Marc Canter, Reckless Road, p.55).

But whatever it was Slash wrote, it didn't give him a credit when 'Back Off Bitch' was finally released on Use Your Illusion 1. If I had to guess, it may have been the opening lead guitar lines.

The thing is, Stradlin and Rose were 'complete' songwriters whereas Slash was a 'collaborator': Stradlin and Rose could write music (more so Izzy) and lyrics and come in with complete songs (Think About You is the earliest example of this practice which later became more a policy on Illusion). Slash merely wrote musicical parts so Slash had to rely on Stradlin or, more so, Rose to write the lyrics. Examples of this are 'Coma' and 'Locomotive.' McKagan was also a complete songwriter (So Fine) but nowhere near as prolific as Stradlin or Rose for whatever reason.

But of course Stradlin and Rose collaborated as well. Here I feel Guns N' Roses's writing partnerships changed slightly as time passed by. Earlier on Stradlin/Rose was a formidable songwriting team (Don't Cry, You Could Be Mine). Later, when the band were actually writing songs for album #2 (1989/90), Slash/Rose was dominant as Stradlin bowed out. It is a bit of a generalisation but it is broadly true if you look at the chronological time of when the songs were written.

About Axl's music. His guitar skills were - are - limited so his guitar based stuff is all simple and on the low E string and consists of fairly basic power chords (One in a Million, Dead Horse). His main musical instrument was the piano (Estranged, NR, Breakdown, the outro of Locomotive).

[Vincent Vega]

I would say PC sounds more like a Slash song. Slash/Stradlin. But that's the thing with Slash he can play on another persons song and make it sound like his. Izzy may not have been in the studio when they recorded it.

'Alright, this is a new one, by Mr Izzy Stradlin, this one is called ''Perfect Fucking Crime'''.

- Axl, (October 31st 1986, Ackerman Ballroom)

Izzy is credited with rhythm guitar on 'Perfect Crime'.

Back Off Bitch sounds very Slash led song.

Well Slash did contribute a new guitar part to 'Back Off Bitch' when he was in New Hollywood Rose. This is from when Axl was in LA Guns:

'Slash and Axl weren't talking at the time. In fact, I remember Axl calling Slash around this time and asking him to teach Tracii the new guitar parts to ''Back Off Bitch'', which Slash had written.'' (Marc Canter, Reckless Road, p.55).

But whatever it was Slash wrote, it didn't give him a credit when 'Back Off Bitch' was finally released on Use Your Illusion 1. If I had to guess, it may have been the opening lead guitar lines.

The thing is, Stradlin and Rose were 'complete' songwriters whereas Slash was a 'collaborator': Stradlin and Rose could write music (more so Izzy) and lyrics and come in with complete songs (Think About You is the earliest example of this practice which later became more a policy on Illusion). Slash merely wrote musicical parts so Slash had to rely on Stradlin or, more so, Rose to write the lyrics. Examples of this are 'Coma' and 'Locomotive.' McKagan was also a complete songwriter (So Fine) but nowhere near as prolific as Stradlin or Rose for whatever reason.

But of course Stradlin and Rose collaborated as well. Here I feel Guns N' Roses's writing partnerships changed slightly as time passed by. Earlier on Stradlin/Rose was a formidable songwriting team (Don't Cry, You Could Be Mine). Later, when the band were actually writing songs for album #2 (1989/90), Slash/Rose was dominant as Stradlin bowed out. It is a bit of a generalisation but it is broadly true if you look at the chronological time of when the songs were written.

About Axl's music. His guitar skills were - are - limited so his guitar based stuff is all simple and on the low E string and consists of fairly basic power chords (One in a Million, Dead Horse). His main musical instrument was the piano (Estranged, NR, Breakdown, the outro of Locomotive).

Just two things:

Slash in an interview says Izzy played the guitar intro on Back Off Bitch.;

Dizzy plays (and thus probably wrote) the piano outro on Locomotive.

[DieselDaisy]

Dizzy would have been credited with that. I mean the thing lasts about 1/3 of the song!

[Vincent Vega]

Dizzy would have been credited with that. I mean the thing lasts about 1/3 of the song!

Not necessarily. Was Slash given any official credit for the guitar melodies on NR or Estranged? Nope, but those pretty much make the songs what they are. Axl said part of the reason Dizzy was hired was he put "heavy metal piano" on songs they hadn't even CONSIDERED putting piano on.

Also, in 1995, Slash said point blank in an interview that he "didn't give a fuck" about who owns the name.

[DieselDaisy]

Still do not buy it. Slash put those parts to an already existing musical piece (Axl on the piano). The 'love's so strange' bit of Locomotive is an entire new section!! To me it sounds like Axl, the Axl of Estranged and Breakdown that is.

I do believe that Slash deserved a proper songwriting credit for Estranged. Those melodies completely alter the song. Axl sort of, robbed him of his royalties while giving him the thoroughly useless 'thanks to Slash for those bitchin melodies' or whatever it says in the booklet.

[wasted]

I would say PC sounds more like a Slash song. Slash/Stradlin. But that's the thing with Slash he can play on another persons song and make it sound like his. Izzy may not have been in the studio when they recorded it.

'Alright, this is a new one, by Mr Izzy Stradlin, this one is called ''Perfect Fucking Crime'''.

- Axl, (October 31st 1986, Ackerman Ballroom)

Izzy is credited with rhythm guitar on 'Perfect Crime'.

Back Off Bitch sounds very Slash led song.

Well Slash did contribute a new guitar part to 'Back Off Bitch' when he was in New Hollywood Rose. This is from when Axl was in LA Guns:

'Slash and Axl weren't talking at the time. In fact, I remember Axl calling Slash around this time and asking him to teach Tracii the new guitar parts to ''Back Off Bitch'', which Slash had written.'' (Marc Canter, Reckless Road, p.55).

But whatever it was Slash wrote, it didn't give him a credit when 'Back Off Bitch' was finally released on Use Your Illusion 1. If I had to guess, it may have been the opening lead guitar lines.

The thing is, Stradlin and Rose were 'complete' songwriters whereas Slash was a 'collaborator': Stradlin and Rose could write music (more so Izzy) and lyrics and come in with complete songs (Think About You is the earliest example of this practice which later became more a policy on Illusion). Slash merely wrote musicical parts so Slash had to rely on Stradlin or, more so, Rose to write the lyrics. Examples of this are 'Coma' and 'Locomotive.' McKagan was also a complete songwriter (So Fine) but nowhere near as prolific as Stradlin or Rose for whatever reason.

But of course Stradlin and Rose collaborated as well. Here I feel Guns N' Roses's writing partnerships changed slightly as time passed by. Earlier on Stradlin/Rose was a formidable songwriting team (Don't Cry, You Could Be Mine). Later, when the band were actually writing songs for album #2 (1989/90), Slash/Rose was dominant as Stradlin bowed out. It is a bit of a generalisation but it is broadly true if you look at the chronological time of when the songs were written.

About Axl's music. His guitar skills were - are - limited so his guitar based stuff is all simple and on the low E string and consists of fairly basic power chords (One in a Million, Dead Horse). His main musical instrument was the piano (Estranged, NR, Breakdown, the outro of Locomotive).

Thats why I have hard time pinning down Slash songs, he really taled about the ones he felt he collabed on more.

theres still quite a few on illusions that sound very Izzy but they have a afd era feel. But the stuff Slash brought in seemed to be heavier, Garden of Eden, Dont Damn me, Coma. Izzy has a lot of credits but Slash ramped up all his songs. Slash worked his ass off on the record but its really the stuff left over from Afd era YCBM, Civil war, Dont cry, Nov rain and the covers that carried it. With Yesterdays, Estranged, The Garden, Estranged giving it depth. Its glaring that Izzy writes the tunes. Nov rain is very uncompromising, its not an obvious single.

If you put the slash stuff in a playlist its very heavy. Axl playlist very ballad heavy but a decent side of music. Izzy has a lot of potential singles, just great tunes.

[DieselDaisy]

Well Izzy is obviously the genius of Guns N' Roses.

[wasted]

Well Izzy is obviously the genius of Guns N' Roses.

It's weird he brings in all the songs, refuses to really work with the band. And the Slash who can't write a song finishes the album.

[DieselDaisy]

Izzy had cleaned up and was, starting to get second thoughts about actually being in Guns N' Roses.

[Nosaj Thing]

Izzy is the man. Walked out of what it was back then the biggest band in the world, just like that. Gotta give credit where its due, that was cool as fuck. Yeah, he bailed on his friends but whatever, one was an egocentric reclusive dictator piece of shit and the others were killing themselves with drugs and alcohol.

[Russel Nash]

Izzy is the man. Walked out of what it was back then the biggest band in the world, just like that. Gotta give credit where its due, that was cool as fuck. Yeah, he bailed on his friends but whatever, one was an egocentric reclusive dictator piece of shit and the others were killing themselves with drugs and alcohol.

Is this allowed here?

[wasted]

It seems the closest Slash got to writing a hit for GNR was Civil War. It's brutal. Even when it sounds like an Axl and Slash song like YCBM it's not. maybe he should get a credit for solos?

[Nosaj Thing]

It seems the closest Slash got to writing a hit for GNR was Civil War. It's brutal. Even when it sounds like an Axl and Slash song like YCBM it's not. maybe he should get a credit for solos?

That's not how credits work. Also, I assume you're talkin' about the Illusions only?

[wasted]

It seems the closest Slash got to writing a hit for GNR was Civil War. It's brutal. Even when it sounds like an Axl and Slash song like YCBM it's not. maybe he should get a credit for solos?

That's not how credits work. Also, I assume you're talkin' about the Illusions only?

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and give him Jungle and Paradise City although I havent checked the credits.

But looking at UYI it seems like just a load of old material, maybe Izzy wrote a new batch of songs, and Axl's epics that he'd worked on (although Nov Rain was old). Slash brought in Garden of Eden, Dont damn me, Coma, Locomotive. So Fine and Get in the Ring could have been fresh. Not sure about Yesterdays and The Garden.

[DieselDaisy]

It is an unspoken rule that guitar solos do not give you a songwriting credit; this is true even for solos which significently alter the song like November Rain. It just, is what it is - I wouldn't say it is particuarly fair system but that's life. Harrison for example did not get a credit for putting his leads on John and Paul's songs.

Edited June 18, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[jimb0]

Izzy is the man. Walked out of what it was back then the biggest band in the world, just like that. Gotta give credit where its due, that was cool as fuck. Yeah, he bailed on his friends but whatever, one was an egocentric reclusive dictator piece of shit and the others were killing themselves with drugs and alcohol.

Sadly Izzy getting sober was the end of Guns N' Roses. And could you blame him, imagine him being in Dizzy's shoes now a days, no f'n way. Izzy's too real for that shit.

[DieselDaisy]

One more thing.

What I wrote above doesn't apply to bands that amalgamate all of their credits like GN'R did on Appetite. Arkeen and Weber aside, Appetite is credited to 'Guns N' Roses' (i.e. Rose, Stradlin, Slash, McKagan and yes, even Adler). This is the 'band of brothers', 'all for one, one for all' approach - before the egos and cash-grabbing set in. Queen did a similar thing when Freddie was dying; they just thought, 'sod all of the arguing over credits and money bullshit' and came together as a band.

Edited June 18, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

I dont see whats so bad about touring with GNR. I guess they were sick of it.

[jmapelian]

He should have pissed on the contract and gave it back

[wasted]

But Izzy, Slash were still getting a decent cut.

I think if it was a band of brothers. As soon as Adler was f'd it should have ended or waited. But its business. Stupid thing is Slash said he didnt make anything from illusion tours. Late fees and lavish parties? Axl!

Edited June 19, 2013 by wasted

[shotgunblues1978]

He should have pissed on the contract and gave it back

Slash wouldn't have had the guts to do that. It's more his style to do what he did: sign the contract and then pout about it and whine about Axl to anyone who would listen (including the press), all while failing to confront Axl and call him out face to face.