Can anyone imagine the Rolling Stones or U2 having their housekeeper as a manager?

[Young_Gun]

This will probably be put in Attitude but I seriously can't believe how silly it is having Beta and her children as managers... Does Axl really expect them to be able to negotiate with veteran label executives?

[TheDemocracyRose]

No! But none are like Guns N'Roses ...

[Guest NGOG]

Bono and Jagger weren't sexually abused by a sadistic stepfather nor did they prematurely lose their mothers by going to the city to escape. From the offset Axl had a longing for that protective figure in his life. Frankly his mother failed to play that role by failing to protect him and his siblings against her predatory lover.

Therefore at a time of emotional vulnerability in losing Stephanie, Axl was naturally quite responsive to the motherly affection of Beta.

[SoulMonster]

This will probably be put in Attitude but I seriously can't believe how silly it is having Beta and her children as managers... Does Axl really expect them to be able to negotiate with veteran label executives?

Yes, I can imagine both of these established bands to let seasoned personal assistants intimately familiar with the runnings of these band, to help them facilitate and execute their decisions, and yes, I can see them sit in on meetings between the bands and the labels.

[Spark]

I wanna know how hard Axl makes Beta's life?

[rockerman]

Bono and Jagger weren't sexually abused by a sadistic stepfather nor did they prematurely lose their mothers by going to the city to escape. From the offset Axl had a longing for that protective figure in his life. Frankly his mother failed to play that role by failing to protect him and his siblings against her predatory lover.

Therefore at a time of emotional vulnerability in losing Stephanie, Axl was naturally quite responsive to the motherly affection of Beta.

Im all for getting healthy( Im a Dr. after all) and if Axl took the time to focus on his mental emotional and spiritual health I celebrate it. If stability and time out of the spotlight to get his "clan" his "tribe' his "family" together made him a more focused and productive person I celebrate that. Sometimes your only as healthy as the people you surround yourself with. In the game of life people that enable your negative traits by allowing you to continue on with negative destructive traits are not friends or family they are excuse makers and ultimately they become worse than toxic poison or heroin/meth addiction.

I dont see Beta as that negative because I think she witnessed more than one occasion where Axl was in total meltdown on all fronts.

If at any point in time she was responsible for showing Axl any measure of human kindness and true concern...then that needs to be celebrated. Far better that than Axl being found dead in a bathtub in Paris.

The music business is a shark infested parasitic business with everyone on the take and all demanding something. There was no way back to a simple life for Axl post 93. There was no promise of stability given the contentious nature of the beast that GNR became. If his need for motherly affection and surrounding himself with people that comforted him and he could actualy trust healed some of the shit that he had running from for years.. then I celebrate that too. Axl may act all tough but his music betrays his bravado in many many ways. The thrill of Axl was in his expression that in essence gave many people the courage to voice thier opinions or fight for thier dreams. His example was that as well on a personal note...Bad kid from nowwhere destined for a hard life of always having to fight for freedom suddenly finds himself on stage being the leader of the parade. Thats powerful.

What is obvious given the last weeks posts that are blantant outright negative is the fans are turing toxic as well and that includes myself. In reflection We are yearning for something that must not be. We yearn for the GNR of yesterday..the GNR of young men and fresh dreams that damn near killed every single member at one point or the other. That cant be love. As Jim Morrison said: "They want my death." Do we? Would we be happy seeing Axl as he was in 87? Would that passify our craving for his artwork? We see the spotlights, the fame the glory, thrill in the music and the message and dance merrily on our way when its all said and done but the behind the scenes are vile and filled with shit that most people are not willing to metaphorically sell thier souls to the devil for. Ive thought many times that what I want for Axl is like that of the old quarterback...come out and show us one last time just why they said you were the best.. take us to the top one last time before time settles all affairs in this life. Dont give in without a fight.

For whatever reasons that Beta is "manager" of GNR..be it financial for the corporation, or because she has insight and ability to work with Axl or its his only resort to holding on to the beast that he created in GNR then so be it. It is possible that on the whole Axl himself doesnt want to engage the rock world and its parasitic players at anywhere the same level and intensity that WE would naturally assume he SHOULD given who he really is as an artist. There is no way home here folks. There is no going back to the start. There simply isnt enough time or will to walk down that path again for anyone.

Time to celebrate what was and accept what is. If there is another record.. yay! good for us and if it isnt our brand of GNR then find a suitable replacement for the pleasure and thrill that GNR provides.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Bono and Jagger weren't sexually abused by a sadistic stepfather nor did they prematurely lose their mothers by going to the city to escape. From the offset Axl had a longing for that protective figure in his life. Frankly his mother failed to play that role by failing to protect him and his siblings against her predatory lover.

Therefore at a time of emotional vulnerability in losing Stephanie, Axl was naturally quite responsive to the motherly affection of Beta.

I think too many people take Axls story about his family life and all that stuff a little too seriously. I mean, if i'm not mistaken, this sexual abuse that he endured he only found out about through regression therapy right, it's meant to've occured when he was 2 years old?!?! Just sayin'...

Bono grew up in Ireland back when Ireland was fuckin' rough...Mick grew up in post-war England, I'm willing to bet their childhoods were rougher than anything Axl Rose went through.

Edited August 9, 2013 by sugaraylen

[AndreCC]

LOL I certainly cannot

[LTD]

I Can! But I'd like to think I have a pretty good imagination.

[Guest NGOG]

I think too many people take Axls story about his family life and all that stuff a little too seriously. I mean, if i'm not mistaken, this sexual abuse that he endured he only found out about through regression therapy right, it's meant to've occured when he was 2 years old?!?! Just sayin'...

Bono grew up in Ireland back when Ireland was fuckin' rough...Mick grew up in post-war England, I'm willing to bet their childhoods were rougher than anything Axl Rose went through.

I think you're downplaying the subconcious emotional trauma which would result from being sexually abused as an infant baby. It would cause all sorts of psychological grief in later life (which would you find difficult to explain given that you were a child and can only articulate the subconcious feelings rather than the timeline of abuse).

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think too many people take Axls story about his family life and all that stuff a little too seriously. I mean, if i'm not mistaken, this sexual abuse that he endured he only found out about through regression therapy right, it's meant to've occured when he was 2 years old?!?! Just sayin'...

Bono grew up in Ireland back when Ireland was fuckin' rough...Mick grew up in post-war England, I'm willing to bet their childhoods were rougher than anything Axl Rose went through.

I think you're downplaying the subconcious emotional trauma which would result from being sexually abused as an infant baby. It would cause all sorts of psychological grief in later life (which would you find difficult to explain given that you were a child and can only articulate the subconcious feelings rather than the timeline of abuse).

No I'm not, i'm just question how you can possibly know you were sexually abused as a 2 year old, especially when the basis for the assertion is something as flimsy as 'regression therapy'.

[Spark]

Bono and Jagger weren't sexually abused by a sadistic stepfather nor did they prematurely lose their mothers by going to the city to escape. From the offset Axl had a longing for that protective figure in his life. Frankly his mother failed to play that role by failing to protect him and his siblings against her predatory lover.

Therefore at a time of emotional vulnerability in losing Stephanie, Axl was naturally quite responsive to the motherly affection of Beta.

Im all for getting healthy( Im a Dr. after all) and if Axl took the time to focus on his mental emotional and spiritual health I celebrate it. If stability and time out of the spotlight to get his "clan" his "tribe' his "family" together made him a more focused and productive person I celebrate that. Sometimes your only as healthy as the people you surround yourself with. In the game of life people that enable your negative traits by allowing you to continue on with negative destructive traits are not friends or family they are excuse makers and ultimately they become worse than toxic poison or heroin/meth addiction.

I dont see Beta as that negative because I think she witnessed more than one occasion where Axl was in total meltdown on all fronts.

If at any point in time she was responsible for showing Axl any measure of human kindness and true concern...then that needs to be celebrated. Far better that than Axl being found dead in a bathtub in Paris.

The music business is a shark infested parasitic business with everyone on the take and all demanding something. There was no way back to a simple life for Axl post 93. There was no promise of stability given the contentious nature of the beast that GNR became. If his need for motherly affection and surrounding himself with people that comforted him and he could actualy trust healed some of the shit that he had running from for years.. then I celebrate that too. Axl may act all tough but his music betrays his bravado in many many ways. The thrill of Axl was in his expression that in essence gave many people the courage to voice thier opinions or fight for thier dreams. His example was that as well on a personal note...Bad kid from nowwhere destined for a hard life of always having to fight for freedom suddenly finds himself on stage being the leader of the parade. Thats powerful.

What is obvious given the last weeks posts that are blantant outright negative is the fans are turing toxic as well and that includes myself. In reflection We are yearning for something that must not be. We yearn for the GNR of yesterday..the GNR of young men and fresh dreams that damn near killed every single member at one point or the other. That cant be love. As Jim Morrison said: "They want my death." Do we? Would we be happy seeing Axl as he was in 87? Would that passify our craving for his artwork? We see the spotlights, the fame the glory, thrill in the music and the message and dance merrily on our way when its all said and done but the behind the scenes are vile and filled with shit that most people are not willing to metaphorically sell thier souls to the devil for. Ive thought many times that what I want for Axl is like that of the old quarterback...come out and show us one last time just why they said you were the best.. take us to the top one last time before time settles all affairs in this life. Dont give in without a fight.

For whatever reasons that Beta is "manager" of GNR..be it financial for the corporation, or because she has insight and ability to work with Axl or its his only resort to holding on to the beast that he created in GNR then so be it. It is possible that on the whole Axl himself doesnt want to engage the rock world and its parasitic players at anywhere the same level and intensity that WE would naturally assume he SHOULD given who he really is as an artist. There is no way home here folks. There is no going back to the start. There simply isnt enough time or will to walk down that path again for anyone.

Time to celebrate what was and accept what is. If there is another record.. yay! good for us and if it isnt our brand of GNR then find a suitable replacement for the pleasure and thrill that GNR provides.

Brilliant post man, sums it up perfectly. But finding a suitable replacement in our lives? is not going to happen. I can't feel for anyother band what I do for GNR.

I think too many people take Axls story about his family life and all that stuff a little too seriously. I mean, if i'm not mistaken, this sexual abuse that he endured he only found out about through regression therapy right, it's meant to've occured when he was 2 years old?!?! Just sayin'...

Bono grew up in Ireland back when Ireland was fuckin' rough...Mick grew up in post-war England, I'm willing to bet their childhoods were rougher than anything Axl Rose went through.

I think you're downplaying the subconcious emotional trauma which would result from being sexually abused as an infant baby. It would cause all sorts of psychological grief in later life (which would you find difficult to explain given that you were a child and can only articulate the subconcious feelings rather than the timeline of abuse).

No I'm not, i'm just question how you can possibly know you were sexually abused as a 2 year old, especially when the basis for the assertion is something as flimsy as 'regression therapy'.

I personally think regression therapy is bull.

[Ali]

This will probably be put in Attitude but I seriously can't believe how silly it is having Beta and her children as managers... Does Axl really expect them to be able to negotiate with veteran label executives?

Yes, I can imagine both of these established bands to let seasoned personal assistants intimately familiar with the runnings of these band, to help them facilitate and execute their decisions, and yes, I can see them sit in on meetings between the bands and the labels.

That's the thing, to label Beta as just his housekeeper may not be at all accurate. She and her son were Axl's assistants and likely learned a great deal over the years, beyond what just a "housekeeper" would learn. That is not to say that she and Team Brazil are the best choice for a management team, necessarily. There a lots of different factors to consider there. But, Beta and her children are not just a housekeeper and the housekeeper's kids.

Ali

[Guest NGOG]

No I'm not, i'm just question how you can possibly know you were sexually abused as a 2 year old, especially when the basis for the assertion is something as flimsy as 'regression therapy'.

If a therapist raises the possibility that your psychological grief has been caused by subconcious trauma inflicted during childhood, then your next move would be to consult a sibling or parent? Maybe Axl asked his mother and she conceded that his stepfather was a very abusive person and was likely to have subjected Axl to sadistic behaviour (then his siblings would have expressed their own experiences).

[Apollo]

This will probably be put in Attitude but I seriously can't believe how silly it is having Beta and her children as managers... Does Axl really expect them to be able to negotiate with veteran label executives?

Yes, I can imagine both of these established bands to let seasoned personal assistants intimately familiar with the runnings of these band, to help them facilitate and execute their decisions, and yes, I can see them sit in on meetings between the bands and the labels.

Do you know of any other band's that have went this route?

Do you know how long that Beta and her children were Axl's assistants? How long does it take to become "seasoned" assistants?

Do you know what their exact duties were? You make it sound like Beta and her kids were balls deep in the financial and music aspect of Axl's career, which allowed them to become "seasoned" in Axl's business affairs. As you know, assistants do a lot of things. Do you have proof that Beta and her children weren't just assistants for Axl's personal life, doing things that super rich people don't want to do. Like go grocery shopping. Make appointments. Take the car to the shop to get the oil changed. Hire maids and personal chefs. Plan parties. Hire contractors to fix things in the mansion.

Seems like you are implying/assuming that Beta and her children were actually "assistants" to Guns n Roses.

Which all could be true. I have no idea. Can you post your proof of this?

**************

Ali - like I mention above, do any of us know what their roles were as assistants? Do we know that they worked as assistants for GnR and that they weren't just Axl's assistants for his personal life?

I'm also curious why you guys just automatically think that being an assistant for a rock star would somehow make you an awesome manager for a million dollar band. I work with a guy who has been with our company for 10 years and he still is lousy at his job. Why do you guys think that Beta's experience as an assistant gave her the skills and talents to be a great manager, when there continue to be so many epic failures since she took over?

************

Lenny, you are spot on. And I work in a field where all of this is relevant, so I probably have more symphathy than most people do concerning this issue. And nobody can tell anybody else how they "should" feel about something. And Axl has such a woe-is-me and everybody is out to get me and nothing is ever my fault issues, that you can see how his revelations about his step-dad would have such a profound effect on him. But in cases like his, a lot of it is how the victim chooses to deal with it. If it happened to me at 2 years old and I found out like Axl did.........my choice is simple. It was 40 years ago, I don't remember it, and I'm not gonna let it effect my life now. My mom dropped me in the ocean when I was two and I almost died - had to be rescued. I don't remember it happening. But if I'm able to recall the event somehow through therapy, should I now be given a free pass in life because I almost died back then?

I'm not saying that he doesn't have a write to be effected by this. I just think it's silly how his die-hard fans use it as an excuse for everything he does. Heck, they were evening using this as an excuse as to why it was OK for him to phsyically beat up multiple women. Friggin crazy.

***************

Finally, I don't know how anybody can take Beta and her children being the band's management seriously. Or can imagine them having business meeting with professionals from the label and trying to hammer out million dollar deals. It's laughable.

What have they accomplished for the band? A couple tours and Axl going on Jimmy Kimmel? Axl being on baseball cards with Kip Winger and Bobby Brown?

How about the failed releases of live concerts? I believe we are up to two now. Have you guys enjoyed the new music that Axl/GnR has released? How do you like their statements concering the band? BBF should shut up. Complaints complaints complaints. We can't tell you anything.

With that track record, I bet all the major bands are trying to break down Axl's door to get Beta and Fernando to come manage them.

[trqster]

TB would make those band's careers revive!

[Naupis]

The music business is a shark infested parasitic business with everyone on the take and all demanding something.

For a second there I thought you were describing Axl's life and the roles that the Lebeis family, Jarmo, and Del James play in it.

All on the take with their hands out looking for more.

No wonder the guy can't function.

[rockerman]

The music business is a shark infested parasitic business with everyone on the take and all demanding something.

For a second there I thought you were describing Axl's life and the roles that the Lebeis family, Jarmo, and Del James play in it.

All on the take with their hands out looking for more.

Yes begger and hangers on...but somehow personally important to Axl.

No wonder the guy can't function.

[hellobeatle]

I think too many people take Axls story about his family life and all that stuff a little too seriously. I mean, if i'm not mistaken, this sexual abuse that he endured he only found out about through regression therapy right, it's meant to've occured when he was 2 years old?!?! Just sayin'...

Bono grew up in Ireland back when Ireland was fuckin' rough...Mick grew up in post-war England, I'm willing to bet their childhoods were rougher than anything Axl Rose went through.

I think you're downplaying the subconcious emotional trauma which would result from being sexually abused as an infant baby. It would cause all sorts of psychological grief in later life (which would you find difficult to explain given that you were a child and can only articulate the subconcious feelings rather than the timeline of abuse).

Two points in both these posts worth addressing:

1) Mick Jagger's childhood was well-nurtured, well-provided, and well-educated by a middle-class family that he's always remained close to.

2) Axl Rose's claims about sexual abuse have never been proven or substantiated, except by his own claims that they were "remembered" through an fringe form of psychotherapy. No proof that he is correct or incorrect, but a claimant is the person with the burden of proof, not the defendant. EDIT: there is an apparent documented history of abuse of his sister by the step-father but I've never seen those docs, so who knows. Any way you cut it, proof or no proof, his childhood was no cake-walk.

Edited August 9, 2013 by hellobeatle

[axlrod]

No! But none are like Guns N'Roses ...

Edited August 9, 2013 by axlrod

[axlsalinger]

I was thinking about learning about stocks and financial markets from Warren Buffett. But then I realized he delivered papers when he was young. I mean really, what could this paperboy possibly know about finance?

Think about how stupid that argument is. Like really, something a 10-year old kid should be able to realize is nonsense. THAT IS THE ARGUMENT YOU PEOPLE KEEP MAKING ABOUT THE HOUSEKEEPER GARBAGE.

Judge her on how well she does the job. Not on what job she had in 1992. I cannot believe people still keep trotting this junk out as if it is relevant to 2013. It might make sense if she was the housekeeper last year, and was suddenly promoted to manager. But in reality she has been involved with this stuff (personal manager of a rock star, heavily involved in negotiations for albums, tours, etc. for 20 years). What is more relevant for a job like this? Taking a business management course, or 20 years of hands-on experience in the industry.

I am not saying she is necessarily doing a good job. But it has nothing to do with being a housekeeper 20+ years ago.

Edited August 9, 2013 by axlsalinger

[tr420]

I'm not a fan of U2 and the Rolling Stones are fine but nothing I listen to.... so I don't give a shit if their manager is you, your mom or their plumber. It's really dumb to think anyone is managing GnR besides Axl. They just follow orders and do the leg work I'm sure. I also think it's dumb to think that they are doing a bad job. What was different before they took over? If anything, everything has improved. Everything except for the constant cupcake topics.

[Nick85]

I cant help but wonder how much quicker the next album would have come out if Axl had not been a paranoid mess and stuck with Irving Azoff.

Say what you will about Azoff, but the man was much more eloquent than "Complaints, complaints, complaints." when dealing with questions from media & fans.

F*cking Beta, man.

Edited August 9, 2013 by sofine11

[axlsalinger]

I wish they'd never let go of Merck.

Edited August 9, 2013 by axlsalinger

[Randy Lahey]

Can anyone imagine The Rolling Stones with Bumblefoot and DJ Ashba on guitar?