Bob Ezrin's Bizarro World

[CoolRanchDressing]

The problems he taking about with CD songs couldnt be fixed with mixing or adding more notes to guitar solos. It's a more fundamental problem. It's like a big budget Hollywood movie with tons of special effects but no story or characters. Transformers needed a script, not more quick shots of robots fighting. Ezrins comments make perfect sense. Don't over think it.

Edited September 20, 2013 by CoolRanchDressing

[wasted]

Thing is CD seems no more more over thought than any other GNR record. Really it took 2 years to do. Then The Wall came and ruined it.

[phaeryen]

Label did give them years and a blank cheque to record. It's not like they were the enemy.

Axl just isn't enough of a musician/songwriter to be able to turn out a great record on his own. He built himself up for the biggest challenge of his career musically with chinese democracy, and just couldn't measure up to his own challenge.

the superheros from comic books record, with a bucket nunchaku fighting in the video, with millennium style computer graphics all over the place, sean beavan and the industrial leanings, man. wish that record would have come out.

its like wasted said some time ago; CD is a late nineties record released in late 00's. It's out of sync with the pop culture it surfaced in.

[tange]

His leather jacket had chains that would jingle
They both Axl met a housekeeper movie stars, partied and mingled
Their A&R man Bob Ezrin said "I don't hear a single"
The future was wide open uncertain.

[CoolRanchDressing]

Time proved ezrin right. Plop plop fizz fizz what a shame pride is.

[wasted]

It's meant to be out dated or retro I think., or that would be awesome if it was.

Like a fine bottle of chateaunwuf-du-pape CD gets better with age. Or takes you back to a time when you didnt think about time.

[niceguy]

The problems he taking about with CD songs couldnt be fixed with mixing or adding more notes to guitar solos. It's a more fundamental problem. It's like a big budget Hollywood movie with tons of special effects but no story or characters. Transformers needed a script, not more quick shots of robots fighting. Ezrins comments make perfect sense. Don't over think it.

Sums it up perfectly.

[smoke]

There are so many things that weren't handled correctly or just went wrong that time hasn't proven ANYONE to be right with regards to CD and GNR in general.

[Blusky Grenfield]

Nothing bizarre for me there, Ezrin produced PINK FLOYD and many other great artists and albums, if this guy tells you 'you have 2-3 songs' maybe you should listen.

Besides, 2-3 songs sounds about right to me. I'd add 2 or 3 more songs that could have been marketable within a movie, but not on the radio. The album is a commercial trainwreck wankfest, it sounds like Radiohead on prosac and roids. From 1999 to 2002 that shit would have ruled the world, in 2008 it was just way too late for that vibe.

On the other hand, I feel the released album is a bad compromise and not the version he had in mind, hence the lame booklet, the no-promotion and his change of attitude towards music.

I wish for the band they could just leave all the bullshit behind and start fresh with no baggage but I don't see that happening any time soon.

[D-GenerationX]

The problems he taking about with CD songs couldnt be fixed with mixing or adding more notes to guitar solos. It's a more fundamental problem. It's like a big budget Hollywood movie with tons of special effects but no story or characters. Transformers needed a script, not more quick shots of robots fighting. Ezrins comments make perfect sense. Don't over think it.

Good analogy.

[Aninha_Hudson]

Bob Ezrin also helped Trent when he was stuck during the creation of The Fragile. The result is one of the best records ever made. Also, Pink Floyd. Too bad Axl pays more attention to amateur brazilian managers than awesome proven rock producers.

[dalsh327]

Well the label hired Ezrin to give his opinion on whether the record was ready or not? The label paid him (or at least asked a favor), what are they going to do, ignore him after sending him the money. This is Bob "The Wall " Ezrin too, not some anonymous internet monday morning QB (hi, mom!).

We can kind of see from CD there is no obvious single, other than maybe ITW nothing has really pop mianstream crossover appeal.

Let's assume Ezrin booked the 2004 session and re-worked or finished Shackler's, Scraped, Sorry, ITW. Those songs at least fit with the scene at the time. 2 pretty simple rockers and two ballads with clear vocals. Shackler's goes on Rock Band eventually and ITW on a movie. And the rest of songs can cater to the UYI era type fans.

What I don't get is how quick it turned from Ezrin saying not ready in early 2004 to the label demanding finished product or release GH in 2004. Then Bucket left.

It took 2 years to recover say, they announced a 2007 release date in 2006. That's when the Better leak dropped?

I can see how it got from 2004 to 2008 release no problem. The only really delay was caused by the label either bringing in RTB and then after that Ezrin saying they had nothing. All of this is kind dispelled by the leaks which were always recieved well, IRS, Better, TWAT, Cacher, The Blues, Madagascar all went down well.

ChiDem should say "produced by Pro Tools". I think we also have to look at what Iovine thought about the whole thing, and his own reputation for delaying albums. Maybe he had heard it and instead of directly telling Axl he thought it sucked, he brought "experts" in to say it for him. He's an exec and he's not going to badmouth his artists, it would be unprofessional and disrespectful. Maybe he does genuinely like it, but at the same time, I don't think he had much faith in it and just saw it as an epic money pit for Interscope. The Greatest Hits did plenty to screw things up between artist and label. I think the fallout over the Greatest Hits played into not letting Axl have more money to keep doing the sessions.

Bob Ezrin also helped Trent when he was stuck during the creation of The Fragile. The result is one of the best records ever made. Also, Pink Floyd. Too bad Axl pays more attention to amateur brazilian managers than awesome proven rock producers.

Didn't Dr Dre also help out with that one? I don't think he had Atticus Ross around, who's been a big behind the scenes part of NIN.

[Liquor & Whores]

when was this that Ezrin's talkin about ???

[Aninha_Hudson]

Well the label hired Ezrin to give his opinion on whether the record was ready or not? The label paid him (or at least asked a favor), what are they going to do, ignore him after sending him the money. This is Bob "The Wall " Ezrin too, not some anonymous internet monday morning QB (hi, mom!).

We can kind of see from CD there is no obvious single, other than maybe ITW nothing has really pop mianstream crossover appeal.

Let's assume Ezrin booked the 2004 session and re-worked or finished Shackler's, Scraped, Sorry, ITW. Those songs at least fit with the scene at the time. 2 pretty simple rockers and two ballads with clear vocals. Shackler's goes on Rock Band eventually and ITW on a movie. And the rest of songs can cater to the UYI era type fans.

What I don't get is how quick it turned from Ezrin saying not ready in early 2004 to the label demanding finished product or release GH in 2004. Then Bucket left.

It took 2 years to recover say, they announced a 2007 release date in 2006. That's when the Better leak dropped?

I can see how it got from 2004 to 2008 release no problem. The only really delay was caused by the label either bringing in RTB and then after that Ezrin saying they had nothing. All of this is kind dispelled by the leaks which were always recieved well, IRS, Better, TWAT, Cacher, The Blues, Madagascar all went down well.

ChiDem should say "produced by Pro Tools". I think we also have to look at what Iovine thought about the whole thing, and his own reputation for delaying albums. Maybe he had heard it and instead of directly telling Axl he thought it sucked, he brought "experts" in to say it for him. He's an exec and he's not going to badmouth his artists, it would be unprofessional and disrespectful. Maybe he does genuinely like it, but at the same time, I don't think he had much faith in it and just saw it as an epic money pit for Interscope. The Greatest Hits did plenty to screw things up between artist and label. I think the fallout over the Greatest Hits played into not letting Axl have more money to keep doing the sessions.

Bob Ezrin also helped Trent when he was stuck during the creation of The Fragile. The result is one of the best records ever made. Also, Pink Floyd. Too bad Axl pays more attention to amateur brazilian managers than awesome proven rock producers.

Didn't Dr Dre also help out with that one? I don't think he had Atticus Ross around, who's been a big behind the scenes part of NIN.

Dr. Dre had a minor contribution on the track "Even Deeper" and that's it. Yeah, no Atticus back then.

[axlsalinger]

when was this that Ezrin's talkin about ???

If you read Ezrin's comments and believe the GNR timeline and Chinese Whispers articles, he met with Axl and told him he had 2.5 songs in October 2000.

Music is chemistry - you can't force great songs. This has been proven time and time again. Axl wanted his band to record hundreds of hours of riffs and song fragments, and he would come in and piece them together and add melodies and lyrics and whatnot. Unfortunately, it didn't really work - although I do like CD a lot - but Axl's legendary reluctance to actually dive in and find the monkey surely didn't help. And the length of time wasted is completely absurd.

My advice would be to take the new group into the studio for 2-3 solid months, and work together. Write songs organically from the ground up. They're all talented musicians - it might be a lot easier than Axl expected. My other piece advice would be to stop being such a fucking pussy and do this in 2010. The last 3 years have been a complete joke and a waste. Unfortunately without a time machine this can never happen, but for fuck sake stop wasting all this time - better late than never.

[dalsh327]

when was this that Ezrin's talkin about ???

If you read Ezrin's comments and believe the GNR timeline and Chinese Whispers articles, he met with Axl and told him he had 2.5 songs in October 2000.

Music is chemistry - you can't force great songs. This has been proven time and time again. Axl wanted his band to record hundreds of hours of riffs and song fragments, and he would come in and piece them together and add melodies and lyrics and whatnot. Unfortunately, it didn't really work - although I do like CD a lot - but Axl's legendary reluctance to actually dive in and find the monkey surely didn't help. And the length of time wasted is completely absurd.

My advice would be to take the new group into the studio for 2-3 solid months, and work together. Write songs organically from the ground up. They're all talented musicians - it might be a lot easier than Axl expected. My other piece advice would be to stop being such a fucking pussy and do this in 2010. The last 3 years have been a complete joke and a waste. Unfortunately without a time machine this can never happen, but for fuck sake stop wasting all this time - better late than never.

Iovine should have just written Trent a 10 million dollar check and told him to produce ChiDem. That's what Axl probably wanted, anyway. At least he would have done a good job producing it and piecing everything together from all the sessions, it's what he's good at, the multilayer stuff and electronics. It prob. would have put Pitman out of a job.