Bob Marley vs. Led Zeppelin

[arnold layne]

Not to be a cunt but the phrase "lowest common denominator" means they're both shit in this context.

Cunt!!

[durruti column]

marley

[Chewbacca]

Zep

[Iron MikeyJ]

Sometimes at fancy dinners they ask "chicken or steak". This thread is like being asked "Ice cream or steak". Not really the same thing.

[Bruno P.]

Zepp, they went much further musically.

Mellow Mood

Soul Rebel

Catch a Fire

One Love

Try Me

No Sympathy

Cornerstone

400 Years

Duppy Conquerer

Fussin' & FIghting

Riding High

Kaya

Sun is Shining

African Herbsman

Don't Rock My Boat

Slave Driver

Concrete Junge

Put it On

Burnin' & Lootin'

Small Axe

Rastaman Chant

Lively Up Yourself

Bend Down Low

Natty Dread

Roots Rock Reggae

Cry to Me

Crazy Baldhead

Johnny Was

Natural Mystic

Turn Your Light Down Low

Punky Reggae Party

Easy Skanking

Satisfy My Soul

Zimbabwae

Zion Train

Chant Down Babylon

Trenchtown Rock

And these are all well known tracks, some of them downright anthems

Obviously... not in a million years. Not all of them. At all.

[classicrawker]

Why not have both?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZHWy6W00oM

Edited January 6, 2014 by classicrawker

[John Bonham]

Sometimes at fancy dinners they ask "chicken or steak". This thread is like being asked "Ice cream or steak". Not really the same thing.

Everybody I grew up with and hang out with loves both.

I don't think I know any one in real life that doesn't just absolutely love both.

They are both crowd-pleasing, party music from the 1970s, that sound even better if you're high.

[John Bonham]

Zepp, they went much further musically.

Musically, OK, but Zepp never went THIS far politically.

[pestilence]

i'd be a hypocrite if i said anything other than zeppelin after spending all of my youth taking bong hits and watching my friends play sega genesis while listening to their albums....

bob's cool tho

[Iron MikeyJ]

Sometimes at fancy dinners they ask "chicken or steak". This thread is like being asked "Ice cream or steak". Not really the same thing.

Everybody I grew up with and hang out with loves both.

I don't think I know any one in real life that doesn't just absolutely love both.

They are both crowd-pleasing, party music from the 1970s, that sound even better if you're high.

Oh I agree, they are both great "stoner" acts. But I'll see your zep and marley and raise you PINK FLOYD. Best stoner music ever!! Maybe not party or crowd pleasers. But when you are baked, nothing sounds better than good ole' Floyd.

[John Bonham]

Floyd is right up there with LZ and Bob. The Tip Top

[arnold layne]

The thing about Led Zeppelin is that 95% of their song is great, and then 5% of it kind of sucks. Like Going to California, pretty good song, but there's some weird shit in it that ruins it.

[Iron MikeyJ]

The thing about Led Zeppelin is that 95% of their song is great, and then 5% of it kind of sucks. Like Going to California, pretty good song, but there's some weird shit in it that ruins it.

Exactly what part of Going to California is bad???

[moreblack]

The thing about Led Zeppelin is that 95% of their song is great, and then 5% of it kind of sucks. Like Going to California, pretty good song, but there's some weird shit in it that ruins it.

Exactly what part of Going to California is bad???

None. There is nothing bad about that song.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Zepp, they went much further musically.

Mellow Mood

Soul Rebel

Catch a Fire

One Love

Try Me

No Sympathy

Cornerstone

400 Years

Duppy Conquerer

Fussin' & FIghting

Riding High

Kaya

Sun is Shining

African Herbsman

Don't Rock My Boat

Slave Driver

Concrete Junge

Put it On

Burnin' & Lootin'

Small Axe

Rastaman Chant

Lively Up Yourself

Bend Down Low

Natty Dread

Roots Rock Reggae

Cry to Me

Crazy Baldhead

Johnny Was

Natural Mystic

Turn Your Light Down Low

Punky Reggae Party

Easy Skanking

Satisfy My Soul

Zimbabwae

Zion Train

Chant Down Babylon

Trenchtown Rock

And these are all well known tracks, some of them downright anthems

Obviously... not in a million years. Not all of them. At all.

What, they're all not well known tracks? I think you'll find they are, not well known in the way Thriller is well known or anything but I mean within the bounds of the respective communities that are into this shit, otherwise you could take Led Zeppelin tracks and, around the right community, no one will've heard of one, same with Marley. I'd heard most of those songs before i'd even made it my business to get my hands on all of his studio releases, just from various Greatest Hits comps, which tells you something in and of itself, that most of those songs are on one or another Marley Greatest Hits comp.

And I'm sorry but how did Zep go farther musically? Bob Marley introduced an almost TOTALLY alien genre to the world at large...how can Zep compare to that? And there's elements of all sorts of shit in Marleys work, there's funk elements and jazz elements and all sorts in there. And the dubs of Marleys work, did Zep go further than that? Get the fuck outta here, went further musically, bullshit.

Bob was all Ska and RnB at one people, then roots reggae, Nyabinghi chanting, you're telling me Zep went further than that, really, on what fucking day did that happen?!?!

Edited January 7, 2014 by sugaraylen

[moreblack]

They might've heard of at least one or two.

[Guest Len B'stard]

No one can seriously argue that Led Zeppelin went further musically than Bob Marley, thats just plain rubbish. There's a difference between working within a genre and then expanding on that in terms of peripheral lines of instrumentation etc whilst the core structure remains the same and then going into uncharted musical territory, with a focus and an intent i.e. introducing it to the world, it wasn't about showing off or dipping your toe in the water for it's own sake, Bob Marley presented the world with hitherto almost unheard of sounds...and evolving ALL the time..from Ska..to roots reggae...to nyabinghi chants...and then also having his American influences in his shit with RnB and funk and soul and all sorts.

Lyrically Zep do not even approach the poetry of Bob Marleys work. Bob Marley had something to say, in terms of his religion and propagating that (key aspect), in terms of his race and it's liberation...for fuckssake this man played songs and got opposing political parties, violently opposing, shaking hands onstage, the man was invited to perform at the liberation of Zimbabwae.

In terms of importance, you are talking about a man upon whoose shoulders an entire genre, a religion, a peoples culture and their music was introduced to the world...on what level do Zeppelin even approach that, the comparison is ridiculous.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Lenny,

The religion of ROCK and ROLL my friend. That's where Zeppelin live, the religion of rock!!!!

[Bruno P.]

How many Reggae icons can you post? I really mean big names. I can give just as much rock icons that Zep actually influenced. The genre that Zep helped to create (Hard Rock) and expand (Rock) is much bigger than Reggae.

They went further musically because they (successfully) explored more genres and their songs and albums had greater musical context/depth.

If you meant that jah bullshit, okay. The very same people that follow that rastafari thing are the same that wear Bob Marley shirts without even knowing who he was. It's fashion. In that sense, yes, he's totally well known... by the people that can't name his hit songs. He's big, no doubt, but if we're talking about music only, Zep is bigger.

[arnold layne]

Yeah, but Len's right. What Zeppelin did wasn't revolutionary (they plagiarized a lot) whereas Marley pretty much introduced a new genre to the entire world.

PS. Fuck Led Zeppelin.

[Bruno P.]

They got some riffs, maybe song ideas, not whole songs and turned them into masterpieces. What they did was revolutionary by all means and they helped to introduce a genre that's got some of the biggest and well known names in music history.

Hate them all you want, but they're huge and for a reason.

[arnold layne]

Okay.

They influenced a lot of shitty hair bands and Marley influenced a political movement.

[Guest Len B'stard]

They got some riffs, maybe song ideas, not whole songs and turned them into masterpieces. What they did was revolutionary by all means and they helped to introduce a genre that's got some of the biggest and well known names in music history.

Hate them all you want, but they're huge and for a reason.

Right but the idea here is a comparitive thing. Name me one other musician that can rightly lay claim to getting warring factions and political leaders, including the current Prime Minister of Jamaica onstage to shake hands while he played his music? Name one other musician that was responsible for propagating a religion through his music...and successfully at that?

For a little background for ya, Rastafarianism wasn't always popular around the world, in fact it was unknown. Even in Jamaica, where it was considered a fringe cult thing, the followers were ostracised from civilised society and made to go out and live in the wilds and the jungle and eat the produce of the land and the trees, they got abused and chased out of town. He not only popularised his faith around the world but in his own country too, where it was also largely maligned, a man with dreads had a tough time walking the streets in Jamaica in the 70s, he made is so they were allowed in the workplace, integrated into society through the propagation of his religion through music...now when you think Jamaica or see pics of Jamaica all you think/see is dreads. Name one other musician that did that?

And again, as mentioned, Marley introduced not only Reggae but every offshoot of reggae that is now internationally known and loved are as they are because Bob Marley opened those doors. The fact that Bob Marley himself even became popular in Jamaica is a pretty massive thing, considering peoples attitude towards folks of mixed race back in the 60s in Jamaica (Bobs Dad was white). All the Dub, all the rocksteady, all the reggae, all the dancehall, all of this is where it is today because of Bob Marley. Bob Marley made his songs of worship into pop culture currency, how fucking unprescedented is that?

And then to be invited to play on the Eve of the liberation of a Nation (Zimbabwae, wrote an anthemic song about it now etched into human history too), the guy is the first third world superstar, the first true son of Africa that bought alongside him the representative of that entire continent, where he loved and adored across the board as he is on our shores, he is a superstar and an icon in a way that is way way above your average band or artist or even your exceptional bands and artists, it's one of those things where it's difficult to quantify.

Edited January 8, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Guest Len B'stard]

How many Reggae icons can you post? I really mean big names. I can give just as much rock icons that Zep actually influenced. The genre that Zep helped to create (Hard Rock) and expand (Rock) is much bigger than Reggae.

OK, well the entire genre of Hip Hop comes from reggae music and that genre has pretty much taken over popular music since the 1980s. As far as Reggae icons Bob influenced, Jesus, are you kidding me, try all of em. Shabba Ranks, Peter Tosh, UB40, The Police, Black Uhuru, Lee Perry...Christ, like literally all of em. But quite frankly the fact that the genesis of hip hop comes from reggae music and the fact that Bob bought that to the world, on it's own far exceeds what you've mentioned here...far far exceeds it.

They went further musically because they (successfully) explored more genres and their songs and albums had greater musical context/depth.

But they didn't, did they? And also, what is a suceessful exploration? A fruitful one i would imagine, one that leads somewhere, which Zeps didn't really did they? They were like, dips of the toe musically before reverted back to their tried and true, as evidenced by Zep always being a hard rock band, that little more than going 'hey look at me!' for a couple of songs and then sticking to your money maker, well Bob Marley and The Wailer weren't like that, they evolved, they started off doing Rocksteady and Mento, moved onto Ska (being at the forefront of its creation) and then to reggae...and Bob was evolving still at that point, before he died. And they didn't have greater musical context, what greater context could their be, musically or otherwise that what Marley was doing?

The fact is, this is the great blag of rock n roll, in terms of substance, to stack a band like Zep up against Bob Marley is laughable. I remember reading this article called 'The Great Con of Rock n Roll' and it made this distinction, one that i find really quite accurate and it is that rock bands, actually, historically speaking, have never had much to say for themselves. They purposely play on the vague and the cryptic, under the banner of 'poetry' and 'individual interpretation' to gloss over the fact that they don't really have anything to tell you. Which is fine but that doesn't stop them from trying to act like they do have something to tell you, thats why they have to delve into fantasy, into make-believe, thats why they get jaded by their second and third albums, thats why they do their musical explorations, out of boredom...furthermore thats why they are often little more than seeing someone else do 'the new thing' (Dyer Maker anyone?) and having a go and then leaving it at that. Thats why like, you can look at a rock lyric and it's like 'wow, whatEVER do they mean' and thats why rock n roll can get away with third rate poetry or 'stream of conciousness' lyrics or just settling on something because it 'sounds nice and fits the music' and there's nothing wrong with that if it makes for a cute little toe tapper but you can't compare that to what Bob Marley did for a living, the two things don't belong together, it's like comparing The Great Depression in the 1930s and it's social effects and The Great Grunge Depression of the 1990s and it's social effects

Take any Zep lyric, from any point of their career, the most poigniant, the most meaningful, the most whatever...they're remote and they're open to interpretation (often the last refuge of the charlatan if you ask me, often, not always or even generally but it's there), you kinda have to work a little to come to know what they are talking about and on a good day you might find out it's about some book about goblins or whatever. Now compare that to:

'Everytime i hear the crack of a whip my blood runs cold

Cuz I remember on the slave ships how they brutalised our very souls

Today they say that we are free, only to be chained in poverty

Good God I think it's illiteracy

It's only a machine that makes money'

And you IMMEDIATELY know what it's about and you immediately know that it's speaking to actual real living people and their plight, as well as successfully condensing and relaying poetically and summing up the state of an entire peoples as it was written, it's about as powerful as lyrics set to music can get. A true cry for help or a call to arms is rarely ever left for your interpretation, by virtue of what they are they have to be clear and direct and they have to make their point, there is no room for pithy in them.

So to a point, it's not even Zeps, they don't have as much to say, they can't POSSIBLY have, they don't even have the ear of enough people and you can cite record sales all day long if you like on this one but the fact is that there are parts of the world where the fans of music don't get to buy the record....yet can sing you all the songs without blinking an eye.

The very same people that follow that rastafari thing are the same that wear Bob Marley shirts without even knowing who he was. It's fashion. In that sense, yes, he's totally well known... by the people that can't name his hit songs. He's big, no doubt, but if we're talking about music only, Zep is bigger.

Yeah the people who can't name his hit songs are all fans of the rock music genre generally though aren't they? In much the same way vast chunks of the people raised on hip hop in the west probably couldn't name you Zeppelins hits. it's 2014 now man, Zeppelin were a long time ago, if you're gonna make your assessments based on a demographic that have had no exposure to something, thats like rigging the ballot.

Edited January 8, 2014 by sugaraylen

[machinegunner]

So you think Bob Marley was some kind of genius that foresaw the influence he might have and then, though his extraordinarily gifted (some would say 'godlike talents') very meticulously crafted out his artistic output to provide the best political outcomes, and best influence the Average Joe for better outcomes in the communities touched by his, again extraordinary, musicianship and sounds, Len?

Edited January 8, 2014 by machinegunner