Nation Demands More Mind-Blowing Guitar Solos

[Snake-Pit]

I don't think they're bad or evil per se, anything thats done good is cool but just the idea of them as a stock thing, as an essential function of a musical piece is rubbish. Thats when these things start to suck, when it just because a granted, like gotta have a solo, it's just how it's done. You just end up with a bunch of showboating for the sake of showboating, often by people who don't even do it well.

For a thing to become this stereotype of itself...and then to have that repeated ad infinitum until it's like a copy of a copy of a copy of something some guy was doing 50 years ago, it just seems so aimless and takes all the punch and venom and potency out of the potential of a piece of music.

Guitar based rock is finished anyway, it's just a nostalgia thing, it's to do with familiarity, as a genre it is done and part of why the books shut on it way it has is it's refusal to like...evolve into anything interesting anymore. There's so much more than can be done outside of that format now, it's just a joke, rock n roll in general, dense riffs, pseudo-sexual highly patronising lyrics a'la Steven Tyler/Axl Rose, the great SOLOOOO, the outro, drum roll endings, long hair, it's just SO beyond comical now, it's ridiculous.

I can't believe what I'm reading on a GNR forum.

Guitar solos in rock only died out because grunge musicians like Kurt Cobain didn't have the musical prowess or talent to string together a decent solo.

Guitar solos rule. This is a Guns N Roses forum, isn't it??

I believe in the direct opposite, i believe the solo survived a little while longer precisely because people like Kurt Cobain had the ingenuity to do something clever with them, through alternate tunings and his banged up guitars, taking cues from like...No Wave noise rock and made these really weird grating dis-jointed solos that were kinda tonal and droney and whilst not exactly different and original overall, they were certainly were for the pop charts.

That's just what Nirvana fans say to excuse Kurt's shocking ability at lead guitar. Truth is, any hack who's been learning guitar for three months could master Nirvana's back catalogue.

OK, do me a Kurt Cobain-esque solo and post it up here In fact, any guitarist reading this can take up that challenge. Some of Kurt Cobains solos didn't even have chords and notes to them, it was just him playing deadened strings with the amp way up and fucking with the feedback and just making this glorious cacophonous racket, its brilliant. And going on about musicianship is to miss the point, Kurt had contempt for that shit and if thats to do with a lack of talent (which it doesn't) well the boy more than made up for it with his ability to write a song and ear for melody.

So yeah, Slash could probably solo Kurt under the table, for all the good it does him cuz he can't write a song to save his life, as evidenced by the mindblowing heights of recognition his solo work has achieved.

Might not be Cobain-esque, but this guy still kicks the shit out of anything Cobain was able to do.

No, not Slash. That comparison wouldn't be fair to Kurt at all.

What, the fuck, was that video!?

I was just listening to November Rain yesterday and thinking how cool that audio track of Slash's solo must be.

I once heard an audio track of just Jimi Hendrix's part on one of his songs; Sounds fucking awesome, it's the exact same piece as everybody's used to, but pure so all the intricate details are apparent.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Snake-Pit

[Snake-Pit]

A good solo has to 1% skill, 99% feel.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Alright Segovia, sit down

[Broskirose]

You're a horrible guitar player Snakepit. Stick to porn.

[Snake-Pit]

You're a horrible guitar player Snakepit. Stick to porn.

Says the person who says 99% of all guitar solos are shit... I bet you think guitar solos are old and a thing of the past; you make me sick...

Edited March 19, 2014 by Snake-Pit

[highvoltage]

So we all hate guitar solos now?

Jeez, most of them are alright. I dig a good solo. Fuck you pretentious cunts.

[Lithium]

You're a horrible guitar player Snakepit. Stick to porn.

Says the person who says 99% of all guitar solos are shit... I bet you think guitar solos are old and a thing of the past; you make me sick...

Does that actually make you sick?

[Snake-Pit]

You're a horrible guitar player Snakepit. Stick to porn.

Says the person who says 99% of all guitar solos are shit... I bet you think guitar solos are old and a thing of the past; you make me sick...

Does that actually make you sick?

Meah, kinda.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Part of the problem is that half the time when people say solo what they mean it huge technical wizardry fuckin' bullshit and all that attendant guitar hero crap. I think Johnny Thunders solos were great, unique, instantly recognisable...but most of your rock solo lovers ain't got no truck with that kinda thing, when they mean solo they mean fuckin' Spinal Tap, they mean Jimmy Page (and he's sick btw) fannying about with a violin bow in front of a much of student acid heads from the 70s.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I said Jimmy Page you dozy bastard

EDIT: Thats it, delete the post and make me look a cunt

Edited March 19, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Snake-Pit]

I said Jimmy Page you dozy bastard

EDIT: Thats it, delete the post and make me look a cunt

Jimmy Page rocks, I was going to slate Eddie Van Halen, well, not slate him, but, say that I preferred Jimmy Page, I like his bluesy rock style, but then I heard Van Halen and couldn't... I like Van Halen too, and Steve Vai's Bad Horsie.

But ONLY because the guitar sounds like a horse.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Snake-Pit

[Iron MikeyJ]

I agree that there was a time during the late 80's and early 90's when the guitar solo had gone too far, it hade become a joke of its self. But thats because the music of the day was filled with players who were jumping from fast lick 1, to fast lick 2, and so on so fourth. The feeling was completly absent. Which feeling is the key to all good music imo, so when that is gone, then it's time to look else where. But I could make that same exact arguement about most of todays artists, they are complelty lacking of feeling. By todays artist, I mean rock/pop/hip hop/and country. There is good stuff going on, you just gotta dig more. But every point that is made about late 80's artists, can also be made about current artists, with one big difference, at least the 80's group had musical talent. You can not say the same for todays artists. I'm sorry, but I have more musical talent than Kanye, Katy Perry, and whomever else you want to name combined. Basically any artist that relys on autotune is devoid of real musical talent imo. While I do think some artists use autotune to accent a piece of music, that is ok (not for me, but it is the trend). But any artists that uses it for all of their vocals on any given song, is just highlighting their weaknesses imo.

But back to guitar solos. While this article was written by the onion (a joke news paper) I am finding this to be some what true, not to the extent they are claiming, but still true. The American people do miss good ole' fashioned blues based guitar rock, but not like gnr or aerosmith or any other classic band. It's gotta come from someone new, or younger. This current generation is one of instant gratification, so not many are putting the time in to truly master the guitar. I believe in the 10,000 hour theory (something that I accomplished on the guitar around 5 years ago). But I think this is the biggest reason we don't see a lot of great guitar playing in music anymore, it takes too long. These "kids" haven't put the time in to really master the instrument, they get the basics down and start playing. Which is fine, it's almost like they stop there. I see so many guitar players on axis, vh1, or wherever that I am significantly better than. (which I hate to sound conceded). There was a time during the 90's and early 2000's where guitar solos were "uncool" but that time has passed. So my main point isn't that the public doesn't want or like solos anymore, it's that many guitar players seem to lack the ability to do them, at least properly.

Which that brings me to my final point. Another part of the problem is that it is essnential to aquire your own unique voice/sound on the instrument, which this is also very lacking. You have to sound like you when you play, to the point that nobody else can really sound like you, thats the key. which this is by far the hardest part to accomplish, but I also believe that its part of that 10,000 hour theory. After you have exceeded that 10,000 hours, your playing starts to become more and more unique. Even when you play simple things. We could all sit and play an E chord, but I will make that E chord sound better. Thats because I have developed my own unique sound.

Now I'll finish this by saying, I'm not trying to come across as a know it all or some self important prick. But at my last show (last saturday) my wife over heard girls talking about me and my band in the restroom. They said "The girls are good, but the guitar player is awesome." She also heard them say some other things of a sexual nature, which made me feel good but made my wife nervous. lol. But my point being, that people still recognize rare and amazing talent, which that isn't me, I just put the time in. It has also become more and more apparent that people are showing up to see me play, because they love my guitar solos. I hope that they like and enjoy the rest of the band also, but I have become the star of the show (which to me our singer is the real star). So when I hear people say that rock music is dead or people don't like guitar solos anymore, I say bullshit. But people do want less Vai and others mindless shredding, but playing like Hendrix, Page, and even Slash will never go out of style. I agree with what Lenny said about BB King vs Vai, it takes more talent to make 5 notes sound amazing than playing as many notes per second you can. There just isn't a lot of players doing it anymore, because they either lack the skill, haven't put in the time, or choose the wrong influences, but the desire for that kind of playing hasn't diminished. I am finding it to be the opposite, that kind of guitar playing is what people are very hungry for. Why? Because it makes all of these "pretend" musicians look very untalented. I'm sorry but I pity any rapper or other "image artists" that have to follow me on stage. Not that I'm as good as Hendrix (although fans have compared him to me), but that would be like Kanye West following Jimi Hendrix. It doesn't matter where or when (any era) but Kanye would look like a joke after Hendrix just played, even to a hip hop audience I bet.

[Lithium]

[Guest Len B'stard]

I'm sorry, but I have more musical talent than Kanye

Woah, woah, woah Michael, hang on a second Now i think Kanyes a massive dickhead but it takes talent to produce music like he does. People like him, RZA, Dre, it takes a fuckload of talent to do what they do, i might not like or rate Kanye but thats just because of what he does with the sounds he creates, you can't call him not talented though. I could understand it coming from some of these hard rock ham and eggers we got knockin' about here but you know your hip hop man, c'mon.

Edited March 19, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Iron MikeyJ]

I didn't say he doesn't have talent, because he does. He is entertaining (not to me, but to others), he can keep the audience, he can produce music, he can even "write" music. But as for actual musical talent, Kanye West should take music lessons from me. See thats the problem with the hip hop genenration, most of them don't even know how to play an actual instrument. It's all computers, turn tables, drum machines, and keyboard loops. They might be able to make something sound good, but they have no idea what it is musically. That is my main point. They have talent, I don't deny that, but musical talent? No not really.

Think about it like this, I remember Jimmy Page telling a story about when he met P Diddy (or whatever the hell he is called today), and Page was trying to show him how to play Kashmir, and Diddy interupted and said "I don't know anything about any C's and D's". Now honestly how fucking pathetic is that? Yet he is one of the icons in todays music scene?

I just used Kanye as an example, maybe he can actually play an instrument. I don't know for sure, all I do know is that I hate his music, so I used him as an example. If you would rather take him out and put P Diddy in his place, then fine. But my statement still stands, I have more musical talent than P Diddy could ever hope to get.

For the record, I am not trying to attack rap or hip hop artists in general, because I also enjoy a great many of them. But when we talk about the current state of pop music, they are directly at fault. But I give them props for their ablility to write lyrics and entertain an audience. Basically all hip hop artists are like frontmen, guys like David Lee Roth. I love David Lee Roth, he is a great frontman and decent lyricist, but he can entertain the fuck out of an audience. But when you say who is the musical genious of Van Halen, it sure as hell isn't DLR. But at least Dave can play some guitar, so he has some musical talent, which is more than I can say about most hip hop artists...

[Iron MikeyJ]

I guess the most basic way I can break it down is to say, in order to have musical talent, you have to be able to actually play something. The entire hip hop genre does not involve many actual instruments, and the ones that do are not played by the actual MC's. So yes even guys like 2pac and Snoop imo lack any real musical talent. That doesn't mean they have NO talent, because they obviously do/did. But even rock singers use their voice as an instrument and hit actual musical notes, but hip hop MC's do not. So I really fail to see how they have any musical talent, they don't play anything, they don't hit any notes. Understand?

Edited March 19, 2014 by Mike420

[Guest Len B'stard]

I didn't say he doesn't have talent, because he does. He is entertaining (not to me, but to others), he can keep the audience, he can produce music, he can even "write" music. But as for actual musical talent, Kanye West should take music lessons from me. See thats the problem with the hip hop genenration, most of them don't even know how to play an actual instrument. It's all computers, turn tables, drum machines, and keyboard loops. They might be able to make something sound good, but they have no idea what it is musically. That is my main point. They have talent, I don't deny that, but musical talent? No not really.

Why does musical talent mean specifically the ability to play an instrument? A musician makes music, you can make music with an empty cardboard box and a spoon and if you can manipulate, accentuate and build upon sounds using electronics, whys it not music, who put this marker down and created this definition man? I think thats a kinda snobby attitude, music is music, the real problem that 'musicians' have (not necessarily you as you're quite a hip hop fan) what bothered people most was 'it's not music, they don't play instruments'.

What is music? It's structured noise really, isn't it, at the heart of it? This idea of unlocking the mystical secrets of my electric excalibur and all this shit, it's all very cute but a musician end of the day is someone that makes music and the further time progresses and technology advances new shit and new methods are gonna come about as a means to creating music, the key function is the creativity of the artist, whether that be knowing how to play like Jimi Hendrix or programming and arranging shit and creating beats and laying down samples and all of that stuff, it's all part of the process of contructing music, it is a talent, in the field of music, ergo musical talent, thats how i see it.

Y'know there were purists from back in the day that refused to regard the electric guitar as a serious instrument too, that it was just a bunch of electric noise and not a 'real' instrument, you need to look at this stuff from the broader range and understand the nature of music, music has been around since before a lot of the instruments that we consider to be essentially musical existed, instruments do not define music, music exists all by itself and it can be made by creating the sounds using WHATEVER shit you got at your disposal and the ability to do all that shit, to cobble it together and create A piece of music, whether you use a laptop, or sample the sound of a key scratching a car and loop it or chucking an accordian down a flight of stairs and recording it, if you have the ability to direct and manipulate those things into a song, thats music to me.

In fact, all you're really doing with your way is effectively limiting and stifling music. So you playing with your band, thats music but RZA in the lab arranging and composing and deconstructing and re-building sounds and adding nuances and shit, thats not musical talent? C'mon, what do you think the ability to arrange music, whether using instruments or not, is?

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that anyone can play a music instrument, to a greater or lesser degree...but to arrange shit and put music together and construct a whole piece by yourself? That could be said to be exceeding just the simple ability to play the guitar well.

And as far as MCs, wow man, they may not hit notes but they dictate rhythm, there's a cadence to it, a definite musicality. I mean you can rap and just bark over a track if you want to but listen to Kane, Biggie Smalls, these people don't have a distinct cadence and even a sense of melody to the way they construct their shit? Of course they do.

Edited March 19, 2014 by sugaraylen

[PappyTron]

Snake-Pit makes Fred Durst look like Django Reinhardt.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I guess the most basic way I can break it down is to say, in order to have musical talent, you have to be able to actually play something. The entire hip hop genre does not involve many actual instruments, and the ones that do are not played by the actual MC's. So yes even guys like 2pac and Snoop imo lack any real musical talent. That doesn't mean they have NO talent, because they obviously do/did. But even rock singers use their voice as an instrument and hit actual musical notes, but hip hop MC's do not. So I really fail to see how they have any musical talent, they don't play anything, they don't hit any notes. Understand?

OK well look at it like this. I can play guitar, i can play all the beginners chords, i can give you barre chord shapes, whip em up and down the fretboard, i play a few scales...does that make me a musician? Fuck no and y'know why? Cuz i don't hear shit. I mean i know it's a chord cuz i read it out of a book or someone told me or i copied it off someone but i don't hear it because I'm fundamentally un-musical as a person. I could play a fuckload of all different kinda chords but then if you were to record it and ask me back what they are i couldn't fuckin' tell ya, same with the notes in the scales, i just do not fuckin' hear it. And I've had a guitar for over a decade...not that i been practising regular over that period of time but I must've put in SOME work to know the little i do. But it just ain't me, i can't tune a guitar to this day without an electric tuner. I mean i can hear when a guitar is out of tune and then you tune it for me and i'll go 'yeah, that sounds right!' but i can't get it there myself

Now by your reckoning I'm more of a musician than RZA who can hear arrangements in his head and put them together and make a piece of music.

Edited March 19, 2014 by sugaraylen

[PappyTron]

I guess the most basic way I can break it down is to say, in order to have musical talent, you have to be able to actually play something. The entire hip hop genre does not involve many actual instruments, and the ones that do are not played by the actual MC's. So yes even guys like 2pac and Snoop imo lack any real musical talent. That doesn't mean they have NO talent, because they obviously do/did. But even rock singers use their voice as an instrument and hit actual musical notes, but hip hop MC's do not. So I really fail to see how they have any musical talent, they don't play anything, they don't hit any notes. Understand?

OK well look at it like this. I can play guitar, i can play all the beginners chords, i can give you barre chord shapes, whip em up and down the fretboard, i play a few scales...does that make me a musician? Fuck no and y'know why? Cuz i don't hear shit. I mean i know it's a chord cuz i read it out of a book or someone told me or i copied it off someone but i don't hear it because I'm fundamentally un-musical as a person. I could play a fuckload of all different kinda chords but then if you were to record it and ask me back what they are i couldn't fuckin' tell ya, same with the notes in the scales, i just do not fuckin' hear it.

Now by your reckoning I'm more of a musician than RZA who can hear arrangements in his head and put them together and make a piece of music.

Can you finger A-Minor, Len?

[Guest Len B'stard]

I guess the most basic way I can break it down is to say, in order to have musical talent, you have to be able to actually play something. The entire hip hop genre does not involve many actual instruments, and the ones that do are not played by the actual MC's. So yes even guys like 2pac and Snoop imo lack any real musical talent. That doesn't mean they have NO talent, because they obviously do/did. But even rock singers use their voice as an instrument and hit actual musical notes, but hip hop MC's do not. So I really fail to see how they have any musical talent, they don't play anything, they don't hit any notes. Understand?

OK well look at it like this. I can play guitar, i can play all the beginners chords, i can give you barre chord shapes, whip em up and down the fretboard, i play a few scales...does that make me a musician? Fuck no and y'know why? Cuz i don't hear shit. I mean i know it's a chord cuz i read it out of a book or someone told me or i copied it off someone but i don't hear it because I'm fundamentally un-musical as a person. I could play a fuckload of all different kinda chords but then if you were to record it and ask me back what they are i couldn't fuckin' tell ya, same with the notes in the scales, i just do not fuckin' hear it.

Now by your reckoning I'm more of a musician than RZA who can hear arrangements in his head and put them together and make a piece of music.

Can you finger A-Minor, Len?

Yeah...with 4 fingers and all

[Iron MikeyJ]

See thats where we disagree. If me or many other people I know had access to the money and toys that some of these hip hop artists do, I could easliy create a #1 hit. It's all in the marketing in todays world, thats how these "artists" are made today. Fuck man, give me one day in one of these studios and the same marketing and ability to release my music world wide, and I'd be a star as well. What further proves my point is one of the stupid chicks from Teen Mom just released a cd, thats my point, anyone can be great in the studio today. This girl has no real musical talent, but because she is a psuedo celebrity, they think they can make money off of her. So they will pIay her video on MTV2, and market her cd all over the internet, and boom shes a star. As far as producers go, I think you are placing a little too much emphasis on that ablility, it's all very cookie cutter. But I do agree that a lot of these "artists" are just products of good producers.

As for hip hop, I do think it's music, I'm not that old, lol. But it's music that is created by producers, not MC's, that's the difference. The MC's are just one part of the whole thing, like a frontman of a band. The difference is they get to put their name on the front of the album. But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't really make the music, well most of them don't anyways. They are given these pieces of music that they just rap over, but whomever created the piece, they have more of the musical talent.

As for the computers and all that goes, on one hand you are right, and the point you made about the electric guitar is fair. But relying so much on samples and other peoples work will eventually kill music imo, they will eventually run out of things to sample. Or they will keep sampleing the same things over and over again, that sounds like an interesting future. My point being, real musicians are necissary in order to keepmusic alive. Without us, hip hop doesn't have anything to sample. They need us a lot more than we need them.

And my final point still stands, Kanye would look pretty untalented following Jimi Hendrix on stage wouldn't he? Even to a hip hop audience...

[Amir]

Four fingers?! Must be A-Slag.

[sweetness]

Jesus christ guys

If you're saying guitar solos suck simply because they're dated, you're not entirely correct. There's two major problems with lead guitar playing in the last 20 years or so that can explain why it has fallen out of popularity. Over time it just became another part of the stale formula of hard rock music; intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/solo/chorus/outro, as opposed to having it's right place within a composition, solos were being shoe-horned into formulaic rock songs and they became uninspired and boring. Then we had the whole god awful "virtuoso" thing, which turned lead guitar playing into a sort of competitive sport and drained it of all artistic merit, this is why I can't stand guys like Bumblefoot, Paul Gilbert, or the knob head in the picture for that onion article. Not saying all virtuosos are shit, but the whole vituoso thing created a culture that spawned countless vapid youtube guitar nerds and they must all be destroyed.

That said, great lead guitar playing definitely still exists, and guitar solos are not inherently shit. Off the top of my head, in the past two decades we've heard fantastic innovative lead playing from guitarists like Omar Rodriguez Lopez, Thomas Erak, Steven Wilson, Ben Weinman, Claudio Sanchez, Travis Stever, the guys from Between The Buried and Me, Animals as Leaders, The Faceless, Protest The Hero, and tons of other bands from the prog, metal, and punk scenes. Also plenty of guys who play more traditional pentatonic style leads, but they know there is a time and place for them and they do it with taste.

Nothing in music or art is inherently bad for what it is, there's just a ton of really bad artists who approach certain aspects of art without any imagination, and that is something things like guitar solos easily suffer from.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Lenny, their are exceptions. Not all Hip Hop artists are void of musical ability, but more often than not they are....

I'm not going to argue names, Rza is ok with me.

Oh and btw, in order to be a musician, you have to make money of some sort imo. It doesn't have to be much, but somebody has to be paying you in order to qualify. Just like someone that paints their own house isn't a painter. A painter is someone that does it for a living. So yes hip hop artists are techinacally musicians, I'll give ya that. But as far as talent goes, most are scrapping the bottom of the talent bucket.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Mike420