Most insecure fanbases

[Broskirose]

You can like the current stuff all you want, that's your choice. But bottom line is the NIN new stuff is just as classic as CD. Which what I'm saying is NONE of them are classics. CD may be someone's favorite gnr album, but the majority of the public could give a rats ass less about it. That doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it's not going to stand the test of time. Which was all I was saying. The NIN music that will be remembered decades from now was all released in the 90's or perhaps even earlier. Not the "noises and glitches" that you are defending. So while they might seem like an interesting and exciting band to you, you have to understand that to THE MAJORITY they are not the far away from a nostolgia circuit. Most people would have trouble naming 5 NIN songs I bet. Luckily they do have a pretty solid following, so that keeps HIM going, but to be honest they are only few years away from a Vegas Residency of their own I bet.

I was never arguing that their newer stuff is more well known then their classic stuff.

However if you look at album charting they've released two albums after TDS that did better, one that did the same and their latest album just came in one spot lower.

And, they are generally considered one of the greatest live bands around. They are nowhere near close to Vegas recidencies and Trent would just retire before it came to that. But the arenas I saw them in this fall looked pretty packed to me.

Of course man, NINs are all over the streets, what do these old farts know about that fresh sounds of...uh, 1987

NIN didn't even exist in 1987. You weren't kidding when you said you're not an expert.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Umm yeah, they did? They're the most successful industrial act and helped bring it to the mainstream. This is common knowledge.

Oh Edit (didn't actually post yet): I should have clarified "industrial rock". Not industrial in general. My bad.

Oh look, she's changed her mind again, now it's Industrial ROCK. Would you like another go at revising, I'm nothing if not accomodating, especially when the other person seems to be having such difficulty explaining themselves Take your time Broski, take your time, don't get social anxiety syndrome here man, we're all miles away behind our own computer screens, take your time!

NIN didn't even exist in 1987. You weren't kidding when you said you're not an expert.

Oh well why didn't you tell me man, well that changes everything doesn't it, 1988 you say? Well that was just yesterday wasn't it, well that makes all the fuckin' difference man, thanks for clearing that up

Edited May 23, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Broskirose]

Broski you're not making a good case for NIN being a secure fan base man.

I'm not following you. Some guy comes into the thread and throws a bunch of insults my way whilst bringing up NIN out of nowhere so I replied. Really all there is to it.

I know you just like to listen to old NIN tracks on drugs as you've told me in the past, but that doesn't change the fact that they don't do industrial metal records anymore.

Show me one example of an industrial metal song released since With Teeth. Like, maybe you could argue Survivalism but beyond that?

I mean don't get so riled up by Len. I always thought it was weird when people post a slew of YouTube videos like 'SEE. THEYRE GOOD.' No one ever watches the videos and it's obvious Len doesn't care anyways.

As far as industrial goes it's just incorporated into their music. To me it's an infusion of punk, rock, and electronic music, and you can hear that on any NIN record.

And trust me, I know NIN has spread out in the genre and done some trance, some dance, some fairly straight forward rock and pop. But I wouldn't think it would be strange for someone to call them an industrial group.

And I disagree with whoever is comparing GNR to NIN in terms of 'dad rock'. Although NIN and GNR did come to form around the same time. (NIN released Pretty Hate Machine two years after AFD, and then The Downward Spiral a year before UYI I think) I don't think it's fair to call them both dated.

NIN was a lot a lot a lot more progressive in the early 90s than GNR. GNR was just doing Aerosmith and The Stones, while NIN was freshening up a still fairly young genre of music. They haven't aged the same way, and I don't think The Downward Spiral can be held to the same standards of being 'dated' as AFD, simply because AFD was already dated the day it came out. It was a rock n roll revival type thing, while NIN was a progressive 90s act in the vein of The Smashing Pumpkins and Radiohead.

I mean Joy Division was kicking back in the late 70s, but they aren't exactly 'dated' like some of the other groups from that time because they were a really interesting and progressive band.

Respectuflly no.

Just because you like them doesn't mean they are what they are, a DATED 90's band. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I love Pearl Jam, but they are also a dated 90's band. It is what it is. When a decade or more has passed since an artist has released anything that people really liked, then they are on the fast track to the nostolgia circuit. You all can defend them to you are blue in the face, but it's true. To the VAST majority of the music buying/stealing public, NIN are the band that does that song "fucking like an animal" because most people don't even know the name of the damn song. I'm sorry to rain on your NIN's parade, but it's true. They are living off of their following, not getting new fans. When a band is doing this, they are on the fast track to the nostolgia circuit.

I'm sorry, but you're flat out wrong. They are not living off nostalgia.

In fact on their most recent North American tour they didn't play Closer once. On the following legs in Japan, Austriala/New Zealand and Latin America they didn't play Closer once. That would be like GNR omitting SCOM from their setlists...which they haven't done EVER.

Again, these are cold hard facts. If you have some kind of misconception about the band that's fine. I'm just pointing out the reality.

Each leg of touring they completely change up the presentation of the band to keep it fresh in an era where you can see shows on Youtube. Trent intentionally changes the setlists, stage production, song arrangements and band lineup.

[Dan H.]

Broski you're not making a good case for NIN being a secure fan base man.

I'm not following you. Some guy comes into the thread and throws a bunch of insults my way whilst bringing up NIN out of nowhere so I replied. Really all there is to it.

I know you just like to listen to old NIN tracks on drugs as you've told me in the past, but that doesn't change the fact that they don't do industrial metal records anymore.

Show me one example of an industrial metal song released since With Teeth. Like, maybe you could argue Survivalism but beyond that?

I mean don't get so riled up by Len. I always thought it was weird when people post a slew of YouTube videos like 'SEE. THEYRE GOOD.' No one ever watches the videos and it's obvious Len doesn't care anyways.

As far as industrial goes it's just incorporated into their music. To me it's an infusion of punk, rock, and electronic music, and you can hear that on any NIN record.

And trust me, I know NIN has spread out in the genre and done some trance, some dance, some fairly straight forward rock and pop. But I wouldn't think it would be strange for someone to call them an industrial group.

And I disagree with whoever is comparing GNR to NIN in terms of 'dad rock'. Although NIN and GNR did come to form around the same time. (NIN released Pretty Hate Machine two years after AFD, and then The Downward Spiral a year before UYI I think) I don't think it's fair to call them both dated.

NIN was a lot a lot a lot more progressive in the early 90s than GNR. GNR was just doing Aerosmith and The Stones, while NIN was freshening up a still fairly young genre of music. They haven't aged the same way, and I don't think The Downward Spiral can be held to the same standards of being 'dated' as AFD, simply because AFD was already dated the day it came out. It was a rock n roll revival type thing, while NIN was a progressive 90s act in the vein of The Smashing Pumpkins and Radiohead.

I mean Joy Division was kicking back in the late 70s, but they aren't exactly 'dated' like some of the other groups from that time because they were a really interesting and progressive band.

Respectuflly no.

Just because you like them doesn't mean they are what they are, a DATED 90's band. I'm just calling a spade a spade. I love Pearl Jam, but they are also a dated 90's band. It is what it is. When a decade or more has passed since an artist has released anything that people really liked, then they are on the fast track to the nostolgia circuit. You all can defend them to you are blue in the face, but it's true. To the VAST majority of the music buying/stealing public, NIN are the band that does that song "fucking like an animal" because most people don't even know the name of the damn song. I'm sorry to rain on your NIN's parade, but it's true. They are living off of their following, not getting new fans. When a band is doing this, they are on the fast track to the nostolgia circuit.

I guess you and I have a different definition of 'dated'.

When I think of dated I think of Tom Petty and the Heart Breakers, or Boston.

When I think of timeless I think of Bob Dylan or Pink Floyd. Sure they don't get a new following, but their music still connects to people and has a sound that is hard to stamp a date on, like 'oh that was just a 80s thing or a 70s thing'.

Like groups like Poison and Crüe went out of style, like a fashion trend. Now GNR is not QUITE as dated as that... I think a lot of intelligent people who know a little bit about music and have listened to other 80s rock bands can hear that GNR tapped into something a little more timeless, but bluesy rock n roll in general seems to age faster than some other genres.

If what you're saying is that NIN isn't rampaging through the mainstream or gaining cult following in the underground then yeah, I totally agree. They're an act from the 90s, and they're not what the kids are jamming out to. But they have a longer pop culture expiration date than Guns N' Roses IMO. But only time will tell.

Edited May 23, 2014 by LiveFromNormal

[Broskirose]

@Dan - the videos were just meant as examples to showcase they are no longer producing industrial music.

Umm yeah, they did? They're the most successful industrial act and helped bring it to the mainstream. This is common knowledge.

Oh Edit (didn't actually post yet): I should have clarified "industrial rock". Not industrial in general. My bad.

Oh look, she's changed her mind again, now it's Industrial ROCK. Would you like another go at revising, I'm nothing if not accomodating, especially when the other person seems to be having such difficulty explaining themselves Take your time Broski, take your time, don't get social anxiety syndrome here man, we're all miles away behind our own computer screens, take your time!

Yeah, industrial rock. The thing we've been talking about all along?

Really, you're going to harp on the fact that I forgot the word "rock" in one of my posts. You know what I was talking about.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Broskirose

[Guest Len B'stard]

Umm yeah, they did? They're the most successful industrial act and helped bring it to the mainstream. This is common knowledge.

Oh Edit (didn't actually post yet): I should have clarified "industrial rock". Not industrial in general. My bad.

Oh look, she's changed her mind again, now it's Industrial ROCK. Would you like another go at revising, I'm nothing if not accomodating, especially when the other person seems to be having such difficulty explaining themselves Take your time Broski, take your time, don't get social anxiety syndrome here man, we're all miles away behind our own computer screens, take your time!

Yeah, industrial rock. The thing we've been talking about all along?

Really, you're going to harp on the fact that I forgot the word "rock" in one of my posts. You know what I was talking about.

I said I was giving you an oppertunity to revise cuz you need one based on your previous revisions in this threads, thats hardly harping on about the one instance, is it? If you said what you mean we wouldn't have this problem young man

Are you quite sure this time, Industrial ROCK, they pioneered that shit?

Edited May 23, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Broskirose]

Really man, stop being so condescending. I don't know why I'm bothering trying to have a legit discussion with you.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Well then lets end it here, someone asked me to leave you alone anyway, the puddle at the bottom of your chair is apparently obvious to more than just me. Good day sir!

Edited May 23, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Broskirose]

It's just music dude. Stop acting like this is some important mortal combat web warrior shit. There is no puddle. I'm trying to have a discussion here and you're just cherry picking irrelevant details like the fact I forgot a word...really dude?

If you can't have a reasonable discussion then by all means leave the thread. I'm more than open to having one as I've stated many times now. But it's kind of difficult when someone just posts "WANKER" and insults left and right, but then conveniently gets all serious whenever they see something they may see as a contradiction on my part (when in reality it was just poor reading comprehension on yours). Either cupcake or get real, but make up your mind. I can't keep up with your Jekyll/Hyde routine.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Broskirose

[Guest Len B'stard]

Stop acting like this is some important mortal combat web warrior shit.

So THATS how you look at this shit, well thats a very illuminating insight into your perception Broski, thank you.

I'm trying to have a discussion here and you're just cherry picking irrelevant details like the fact I forgot a word...really dude?

Im not though am i, because i was criticising your need to revise when you were laying out that genre list.

But it's kind of difficult when someone just posts "WANKER" and insults left and right

Juvenile huh? Kinda like posting a billion smileys at someone cuz they use the shit, banging on about someones grammar, criticising the fact that they dare to use words in a vernacular from another country and generally trying to be a comedian. Seriously man, whats the matter, why are you such a bitch, why can't you take it like how you dish it out? Oh I think I know, cuz you're a....

WANKERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

but then conveniently gets all serious whenever they see something they ma see as a contradiction on my part (when in reality it was just poor reading comprehension on yours)

Revising agaiinnnn, tut tut tut. What gets me is the shit is all written down here, why bullshit like that, anyone that gives half a shit only has to scroll a couple of pages back.

But like I said, I'm gone man, it's been riveting though Broski, thank you very much, I haven't laughed so much since the 80s

[Broskirose]

So because you're still reeling from stuff that happened in the past in other threads of the forum, you need to act like a knob in here? Jeez, talk about a "puddle".

I'm sorry if you still haven't gotten over that stuff, but I can't read your mind and know that you're still arguing shit everyone else has forgotten about. If you're so damn angry about this stuff just post about in the General Chat thread or PM me. Don't shit up random My World threads. I'm sorry if you got so offended in the past. Truce man?

Now back on topic -

[Iron MikeyJ]

@LivefromNormal,

I agree and disagree with you. Does NIN have a longer shelf life than gnr did or does? Perhaps, but Classic gnr has been elevated to LEGEND status, NIN has not. So years from now, SCOM and other songs will be remembered like Pink Floyd and Bob Dylan (like you mentioned). Will NIN? If I had to guess I would say no. Are NIN more relevant than NUgnr? Yes I'll give you that, but if classic gnr reunited than they would DWARF all of NIN's tour numbers. To be honest part of the reason why NIN has maintained a certain level of popularity is because they are just Trent's little baby. Nevermind the rest of the band, if Slash never became the "guitar hero" to the public that he became, than Nugnr would have been A LOT more accepted. It was the absence of Slash that really hurt Axl more than anything, with the long delay between albums being #2. But my point is that it's not the music it's self. But just imagine if gnr had always been Axl and some other dudes (like NIN), than I firmly believe that NUgnr and CD would have been a lot bigger.

And by dated, I mean everything is dated. Pink Floyd sounds like the 70's, gnr sounds like the 80's, NIN and MANY other bands sound like the 90's. If someone like Tupac had never released 2 of Amrica's most wanted, but it was released today, it wouldn't sound like 2014, it would sound like 1995, because that's when it was written and recorded. I have never agreed nor understood this notion that something old still sounds "current", that's just nonsense. I love Darkside of the Moon, but it very much sounds like 1973, not 2014. So it very much sounds DATED. NIN is no different. They are not excluded from the fabric of time...

@Broski,

By you saying they didn't play Closer only further makes my case, because it proves they are playing to their fanbase, not expanding on it. Is their fanbase more open to things than say gnr's? Yes, I'll give you that. But gnr also gets more casual rock fans than NIN does, because if they did than bet your ass they would playing Closer. I applaud Trent for keeping things fresh for his fans, but let's not give hime more than his fair dues. He is doing this so that fans like yourself will keep coming to his shows. If they played the same show over and over again (like NUgnr) than people get bored and will choose not to come. So he is catering to his fanbase more than Axl does, but as I said, he also doesn't have as many casual fans showing up, so he can get away with that. It's all about the money at the end of the day, don't fool yourself. Because if a musician was doing it for "themselves" or to be "artistic" they would play about 5 shows a year, put out an album once a blue moon, and more or less do whatever the hell they want. Musicians love to play, don't get me wrong, I am one. But having said that, they would play concerts or big shows a lot less than they do if it was up to them. They do it because they need/want the money. Because the more you play the songs, (even if it's your own music) over playing it makes it boring. If it was up to musicians, we would play every blue moon and it would be interesting jam sessions, not concerts. Concerts are fun and all, but by the 5th show, it starts becoming repetitve. But that's the job, so they do it. Just don't for one second confuse or forget about the money, because that's what it's ALL ABOUT.

[Dan H.]

Sure SCOM and GNR hits will be more ingrained in pop culture, but I think they garner less respect, that's in my experience at least, but I hang around a lot of folks with similar music tastes to me, and read a lot of publications that lean away from classic rock sounds. So who knows. It's not easy to be objective, even when you want to be.

I won't get into Chinese Democracy because it's besides the point, and I think it did pretty much exactly as well as it should have, and will be remembered as such.

GNR will hold a more iconic spot in music history, but NIN will hold a more cult underground appreciation I think, in terms of acclaim and respect.

But yeah, agree to disagree. It's hard to be sure on stuff like this, judging how long these acts will be remembered for. We can talk a little bit more about it in 30-40 years.

Edited May 23, 2014 by LiveFromNormal

[Broskirose]

Sorry man, I'm not following your logic at all. They're not playing their biggest hit and that somehow is about money? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard The reason he gave for why he wasn't playing it, was that he just wasn't feeling it at the time. It has since made it's way back into setlists, but there have been other periods in the past where it was hardly played. And even the version they've been doing since 2005 is edited into an Only Time mashup and shortened by a couple minutes.

And a lot of things in your post are exactly what NIN is actually doing. They released a double album of experiemental totally instrumental music in 2008 independently. They released another album later that year for free on their website that was written, recorded and released in a matter of weeks. How can you argue that is about money?

He even stopped touring completely for years to work on film scores, and a band with his wife and close friends.

He has said himself that doing the same setlists gets stagnant and boring - that's why he changes them. All of this stuff you're arguing doesn't really apply to NIN.

They do make records for fun, they don't tour when they feel like they've got nothing worth presenting and when they do - it's a fucking epic sprawling production meant to make fans feel like they've gotten their money's worth. In fact, the general consensus among fans is that he lost a ton of money on their recent North American tour due to the scale of the production.

Trent has money. Hell, he's about to get a massive payday once Apple buys Beats for billions of dollars. NIN isn't about that, and it isn't about nostalgia. Again, I'm just listing facts. Do you think I'm making this stuff up?

Edit: I'm not saying they aren't trying to make some money (who isn't? ). I'm just saying, I really don't get the impression that it's the thing constantly at the front of Trent's mind.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Broskirose

[Sixes]

@LivefromNormal,

I agree and disagree with you. Does NIN have a longer shelf life than gnr did or does? Perhaps, but Classic gnr has been elevated to LEGEND status, NIN has not. So years from now, SCOM and other songs will be remembered like Pink Floyd and Bob Dylan (like you mentioned). Will NIN? If I had to guess I would say no. Are NIN more relevant than NUgnr? Yes I'll give you that, but if classic gnr reunited than they would DWARF all of NIN's tour numbers. To be honest part of the reason why NIN has maintained a certain level of popularity is because they are just Trent's little baby. Nevermind the rest of the band, if Slash never became the "guitar hero" to the public that he became, than Nugnr would have been A LOT more accepted. It was the absence of Slash that really hurt Axl more than anything, with the long delay between albums being #2. But my point is that it's not the music it's self. But just imagine if gnr had always been Axl and some other dudes (like NIN), than I firmly believe that NUgnr and CD would have been a lot bigger.

And by dated, I mean everything is dated. Pink Floyd sounds like the 70's, gnr sounds like the 80's, NIN and MANY other bands sound like the 90's. If someone like Tupac had never released 2 of Amrica's most wanted, but it was released today, it wouldn't sound like 2014, it would sound like 1995, because that's when it was written and recorded. I have never agreed nor understood this notion that something old still sounds "current", that's just nonsense. I love Darkside of the Moon, but it very much sounds like 1973, not 2014. So it very much sounds DATED. NIN is no different. They are not excluded from the fabric of time...

@Broski,

By you saying they didn't play Closer only further makes my case, because it proves they are playing to their fanbase, not expanding on it. Is their fanbase more open to things than say gnr's? Yes, I'll give you that. But gnr also gets more casual rock fans than NIN does, because if they did than bet your ass they would playing Closer. I applaud Trent for keeping things fresh for his fans, but let's not give hime more than his fair dues. He is doing this so that fans like yourself will keep coming to his shows. If they played the same show over and over again (like NUgnr) than people get bored and will choose not to come. So he is catering to his fanbase more than Axl does, but as I said, he also doesn't have as many casual fans showing up, so he can get away with that. It's all about the money at the end of the day, don't fool yourself. Because if a musician was doing it for "themselves" or to be "artistic" they would play about 5 shows a year, put out an album once a blue moon, and more or less do whatever the hell they want. Musicians love to play, don't get me wrong, I am one. But having said that, they would play concerts or big shows a lot less than they do if it was up to them. They do it because they need/want the money. Because the more you play the songs, (even if it's your own music) over playing it makes it boring. If it was up to musicians, we would play every blue moon and it would be interesting jam sessions, not concerts. Concerts are fun and all, but by the 5th show, it starts becoming repetitve. But that's the job, so they do it. Just don't for one second confuse or forget about the money, because that's what it's ALL ABOUT.

Mike, have you continued to listen to bands like Pearl Jam and others that started 20-25 years ago? Not just the albums that came out then but the albums and things they've continued to work on since then and up to the present?

I could be totally wrong, but I always get the impression that you listened to those bands when they came out, liked some of them, hated others, but then stopped following them. And it seems that you are "stuck" in that time and have become dismissive towards their later careers because they aren't as "successful" as they once were.

Bands are many different things. Some will latch onto a particular sound and stay with that sound for their entire careers and do sound dated always. But a band like Nine Inch Nails, despite the limitations of their chosen genre, have continued to move forward, to incorporate new things into their music to stay fresh. Will NIN ever have an iconic song that reaches the masses again like Head Like A Hole? Who knows, and frankly, who cares?

Take David Bowie. His hit days are long gone but he continued to make exciting, fresh sounding, new music decades after his hit making days were behind him. Thankfully I didn't stop following him and his career and the album he put out last year ranks among the best work he's ever done, regardless of sales or how many people that heard it.

[Broskirose]

Mike, I'd recommend skimming these Wikipedia articles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosts_I–IV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Slip_(album)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BY-NC-SA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_available_under_a_Creative_Commons_license#Music)

Edited May 23, 2014 by Broskirose

[Iron MikeyJ]

Sure SCOM and GNR hits will be more ingrained in pop culture, but I think they garner less respect, that's in my experience at least, but I hang around a lot of folks with similar music tastes to me, and read a lot of publications that lean away from classic rock sounds. So who knows. It's not easy to be objective, even when you want to be.

I won't get into Chinese Democracy because it's besides the point, and I think it did pretty much exactly as well as it should have, and will be remembered as such.

GNR will hold a more iconic spot in music history, but NIN will hold a more cult underground appreciation I think, in terms of acclaim and respect.

But yeah, agree to disagree. It's hard to be sure on stuff like this, judging how long these acts will be remembered for. We can talk a little bit more about it in 30-40 years.

Well it appears we have reached an impass, good convo sir. Yes time will tell.

Sorry man, I'm not following your logic at all. They're not playing their biggest hit and that somehow is about money? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard

And a lot of things in your post are exactly what NIN is actually doing. They released a double album of experiemental totally instrumental music in 2008 independently. They released another album later that year for free on their website that was written, recorded and released in a matter of weeks. How can you argue that is about money?

He even stopped touring completely for years to work on film scores, and a band with his wife and close friends.

He has said himself that doing the same setlists gets stagnant and boring - that's why he changes them. All of this stuff you're arguing doesn't really apply to NIN.

They do make records for fun, they don't tour when they feel like they've got nothing worth presenting and when they do - it's a fucking epic sprawling production meant to make fans feel like they've gotten their money's worth. In fact, the general consensus among fans is that he lost a ton of money on their recent North American tour due to the scale of the production.

Trent has money. Hell, he's about to get a massive payday once Apple buys Beats for billions of dollars. NIN isn't about that, and it isn't about nostalgia. Again, I'm just listing facts. Do you think I'm making this stuff up?

Edit: I'm not saying they aren't trying to make some money (who isn't? ). I'm just saying, I really don't get the impression that it's the thing constantly at the front of Trent's mind.

You missed my point. I'm not saying it's 100% everything in every band is all about the money. But the money is a MAJOR factor in all bands. It has to be. If NIN is losing money on this tour because of all the staging, lighting, etc, than bet your ass next time they come around they will have a smaller set up. If an artist can't at least break even, they wouldn't tour. What would be the point of it? Just to entertain fans, please...

Does NIN not play Closer because Trent is sick to death of that song? Yes, but his fanbase let's him get away with it. Every fanbase is different. It doesn't hurt them fiancially to not play Closer, because as I've said, their fanbase is built in. I bet their tour numbers are pretty similiar everywhere they play for the last ten years or so. So they know that new people are not coming, it's the same folks coming over and over again. Which is totally cool. But casual music fans don't attend their concerts, so they don't have to appease those people. Just like hardcore gnr fans, we would be fine dropping live and let die or knockin on heavens door or many other "hits". But that casual gnr fan really likes Live and let die, they hear it on the radio often, so gnr has to play it for THOSE fans. Because those fans tell their friends, and next time Axl and co come around, now that girls friends go because she really liked the original show. I would say at least 80% of gnr's audience is casual fans, with 20% being hard core. NIN is the opposite, probably 80% hardcore with 20% casual. That gives you a lot more room for drastic changes.

I'm not defending one way being better or worse than the other, just pointing out the difference. Bands and artists play to their fanbase, harcore and casual. It is what it is.

I don't know how to break it down any clearer than this. Again not everything is ALL ABOUT the money, but money plays a HUGE role in every major decision. If they stopped playing Closer, and then people started to not come as much, than bet your ass Closer would be back in the set. Dropping the song didn't have a negative impact on them, good for them.

[Guest Len B'stard]

So because you're still reeling from stuff that happened in the past in other threads of the forum, you need to act like a knob in here? Jeez, talk about a "puddle".

More like i thought we were playing but everytime its my turn you wanna take the ball and go home, now thats not fair, is it? Edited May 23, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Broskirose]

@Mike - But where are you coming up with those numbers? You can't fill arenas with just hardcores. I really don't think there is a major difference between casual fans at GNR concerts and NIN concerts. Certainly not 80% to 20%.

And I read a ton of reviews where people were like "Awesome show but I wish he played Closer".

You can even hear a bunch of South Americans chanting "Closer! Closer! Closer!" once they finished playing this song because he teased it at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W02HzOtisEA

Club shows are one thing but not playing your most well known songs in arenas and festivals is a bold move - and people did notice. Just like they did other times he didn't play it in the past. But it still finds it's way out of setlists frequently.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Broskirose

[Iron MikeyJ]

Sixes,

Yes I have followed Pearl Jam's entire career, along with MANY bands. With them in particular, they have released good songs here and there, but their last good album was Yield.

The problem here is we just plain like different music. We can all like different types of music, that's perfectly fine. But because I am a traditionalist in an era of computers, I get a lot of flack. I do like it when bands or artists experiment, because the AC/DC approach to music is not good imo. Nobody want's the same album redone 15 times in a career. Nor do I want Appetite part 2 nor CD2. You all miss my points sometimes. Led Zeppelin never made the same album twice, yet they never used instruments other than guitars, drums, bass, keys, etc. Same goes for Pink Floyd (who I know you hate). If Hendrix had lived I bet he would have made some remakably creative music, yet he still would have been playing the guitar. My point is you can be creative by still "doing what you do". Who said you have to different in order to be creative? I don't believe in this idea that everything has been done with guitars or in rock. Who says? Everyone has a different take, or different ideas they bring to the table. It's only dead if no one is trying. Besides a good song will always find an audience. Which at the end of the day that's what it is all about, the songs. If your song touches people than it doesn't matter how the song was concieved or what instrument it was written with. But every artist suffers from the same eventual problem, they run out of interesting things to talk about in their music. It doesn't matter if you are Axl, Trent, Eminem, or whomever, if you write your own music you will eventually run out of good ideas. That's the point where I get up and walk away, because that's the point when they start releasing crap music just to please their fans that are crying for the next album. So they put "noises and glitches" on it in order to try and hide the fact that they don't have shit else to say anymore. that is why I am no hurry to hear new music from Axl, I think the guy is just out of shiot to talk about. The whole break up with Slash and whomever else fueled him for CD, but what's he got now? Stories about Beta????

[Broskirose]

Random fun fact: some dude on Twitter got into an argument with me last year because he was upset that NIN didn't play more of their older heavier material at a show in LA he was at. I was like "dude do you even understand the concept of touring an album?" and then he raged on me. Looked at his profile and it turned out he was the guitarist of Fear Factory or something.

Edit: Dino Cazares

Edited May 23, 2014 by Broskirose

[Sixes]

The last good, scratch that, the last great album Pearl Jam has made is Lightning Bolt...

The song Sirens is among the best they've ever done and the whole album is fantastic.

My Father's Son, Pendulum, Future Days, Yellow Moon...they all rank with the best they've ever released.

Still sounds fresh after all these years, still sound relevant, still among the best bands out there.

Yield is a great album but they've never stopped being great...sure there have been some downs but that's the nature of things. Not everything can be a 5 star classic everytime. I think sometimes the issue people have with current bands is that we don't have the luxury of diving into a whole discography, like The Beatles. That's a body of work that's over and done and has the advantage of time behind it and with time, we don't know the all of the circumstances surrounding it.

Led Zeppelin were critically reviled but with time that has changed. Same with Black Sabbath and countless other bands.

There's a difference with a working band as we are in the middle of them evolving, or de-volving as is the case some times. So if they release a "stinker", it becomes a huge deal but with time and a different point of view, that "stinker" may be considered a classic.

There's no way anyone can say music that is released this year won't have the same impact as something from 1973. Time will tell.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Random fun fact: some dude on Twitter got into an argument with me last year because he was upset that NIN didn't play more of their older heavier material at a show in LA he was at. I was like "dude do you even understand the concept of touring an album?" and then he raged on me. Looked at his profile and it turned out he was the guitarist of Fear Factory or something.

Edit: Dino Cazares

Well what a special little victory that must've been for you, did you print it off and show your Mum, put it on the fridge for you maybe? Some of that keyboard warrior stuff you were talking about eh?

Whats your twitter Broski?

[Broskirose]

Some metal dude was just raging on me. Wasn't being a keyboard warrior. I thought you were leaving the thread?

My twitter - https://twitter.com/broskirose1

[luciusfunk]

I'm not as big a fan of NIN as I used to be, but really, comparing them or their fanbase to Mötley Crüe or their fanbase is ridiculous.

Yeah I'm a couple pages late, but whatever.