English (The Language)

YOUCOULDBEMINE. · June 17, 2014

Khoisan language:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c246fZ-7z1w
Can't watch the video. My Afrikaans teacher knew how to speak Khoisan though

Now I'm just curious. Where are you from, and how many languages do you speak? I have a feeling that you speak at least 4-5 languages.

Lio · June 17, 2014

Now I'm just curious. Where are you from, and how many languages do you speak? I have a feeling that you speak at least 4-5 languages.

I'm from Belgium. I've studied French, English, Italian, Danish, Swedish, Afrikaans and Czech. Afrikaans and Czech were short courses and the rest is a long time ago, so I'm quite rusty on Danish and Swedish. I hope to brush up on my language skills some day, though, when I have more time. I've always been fascinated by languages, but working fulltime, having a family and a social life means less time to learn languages :shrugs:

magisme · June 17, 2014

Now I'm just curious. Where are you from, and how many languages do you speak? I have a feeling that you speak at least 4-5 languages.
I'm from Belgium. I've studied French, English, Italian, Danish, Swedish, Afrikaans and Czech. Afrikaans and Czech were short courses and the rest is a long time ago, so I'm quite rusty on Danish and Swedish. I hope to brush up on my language skills some day, though, when I have more time. I've always been fascinated by languages, but working fulltime, having a family and a social life means less time to learn languages

Show off.

Redhead74 · June 17, 2014

American English where they use a faucet instead of a tap
Yeah I always belly up to the bar and order Budweiser on faucet.
BTW - English is one of the hardest to learn, what other language has words that are spelled the same but have two entirely different meanings depending on context.

French for one is harder the than English. Every noun has a masculine of feminine and there is not set rule to understanding why a word is one or the other. You just have to learn it from exposure.

Lio · June 17, 2014

Now I'm just curious. Where are you from, and how many languages do you speak? I have a feeling that you speak at least 4-5 languages.
I'm from Belgium. I've studied French, English, Italian, Danish, Swedish, Afrikaans and Czech. Afrikaans and Czech were short courses and the rest is a long time ago, so I'm quite rusty on Danish and Swedish. I hope to brush up on my language skills some day, though, when I have more time. I've always been fascinated by languages, but working fulltime, having a family and a social life means less time to learn languages
Show off.

What do you mean ? The languages or the busy life bit ? Now excuse me, I have to meet a deadline, go get the kid from school and go watch the Red Devils tonight in the local bar.

magisme · June 17, 2014

Now I'm just curious. Where are you from, and how many languages do you speak? I have a feeling that you speak at least 4-5 languages.
I'm from Belgium. I've studied French, English, Italian, Danish, Swedish, Afrikaans and Czech. Afrikaans and Czech were short courses and the rest is a long time ago, so I'm quite rusty on Danish and Swedish. I hope to brush up on my language skills some day, though, when I have more time. I've always been fascinated by languages, but working fulltime, having a family and a social life means less time to learn languages
Show off.
What do you mean ? The languages or the busy life bit ? Now excuse me, I have to meet a deadline, go get the kid from school and go watch the Red Devils tonight in the local bar.

All of it. You just seem well rounded and well educated so I wanted to knock you down a peg. :lol:

Redhead74 · June 17, 2014

So, if anyone read my links you'd see that Indo-Aryan languages are rated like this (based on how complex and irregular they are):
Classic Greek: 5.5
Czech: 5.5
Slovak: 5.5
Polish: 5.0
Sanskrit: 5.0
Icelandic: 5.0
Faroese: 5.0
Lithuanian: 5.0
Old Irish: 5.0
Greek: 5.0
Albanian: 5.0
Latvian: 4.5
Nepali: 4.5
Punjabi: 4.5
Irish: 4.5
Scottish Gaelic: 4.5
Serbo-Croatian: 4.5
Manx: 4.5
Slovenian: 4.0
Russian: 4.0
Armenian: 4.0
Welsh: 4.0
Breton: 4.0
Sinhala: 4.0
Kurdish: 4.0
Ossetian: 4.0
Hindi: 4.0
Bulgarian: 3.5
Macedonian: 3.5
German: 3.5
Bengali: 3.5
Dutch: 3.0
Italian: 3.0
Danish: 3.0
Persian: 3.0
Portuguese: 3.0
Romanian: 3.0
French: 3.0
Swedish: 2.5
English: 2.5
Spanish: 2.5
Neapolitan: 2.5
Afrikaans: 2.0
Norwegian: 2.0
But all of these none-Indo-Aryan languages might be much harder: Navajo, Tsez, Kung (language family), Pirahã, Basque, Comanche, Archi, Etruscan, Northwest/Northeast Caucasian (language family) and Aboriginal Australian (language family).
So no, English simply isn't among the hardest languages to learn.

Czech was the hardest language I ever tried to learn. Glad that that has been proved
Surprised to see that Norwegian and Afrikaans are equally 'simple', because Afrikaans is basically simplified Dutch.
Norwegian and Danish are pretty close to Dutch as well. I know a few Danish people who learned to speak Dutch in no-time.
Kudos to your friends I hardly ever meet (foreign) people that speak Dutch

My Dutch is pretty crap but I generally find grasping something of a language easier when reading it rather than listening to it and so I often find I can decipher a lot of German and Danish from my mediocre understanding of Dutch.

For some reason words and language for me are learnt much easier by reading than listening. I remember being in Holland when I was 8 and I'd read all the packaging of the stuff in the trolley when we went shopping, read all the newspapers, magazines lying around, read all the street signs and make associations from that. When I say 'read' I mean analyse the spelling and commit it to memory. I've done the same with French and Italian and have figured out enough to get by when I'm in those countries.

Lio · June 17, 2014

Now I'm just curious. Where are you from, and how many languages do you speak? I have a feeling that you speak at least 4-5 languages.
I'm from Belgium. I've studied French, English, Italian, Danish, Swedish, Afrikaans and Czech. Afrikaans and Czech were short courses and the rest is a long time ago, so I'm quite rusty on Danish and Swedish. I hope to brush up on my language skills some day, though, when I have more time. I've always been fascinated by languages, but working fulltime, having a family and a social life means less time to learn languages
Show off.
What do you mean ? The languages or the busy life bit ? Now excuse me, I have to meet a deadline, go get the kid from school and go watch the Red Devils tonight in the local bar.
All of it. You just seem well rounded and well educated so I wanted to knock you down a peg.

So sweet of you... Thanks :wub: (Except the knocking down a peg :max: )

SoulMonster · June 17, 2014

My Dutch is pretty crap but I generally find grasping something of a language easier when reading it rather than listening to it and so I often find I can decipher a lot of German and Danish from my mediocre understanding of Dutch.
For some reason words and language for me are learnt much easier by reading than listening. I remember being in Holland when I was 8 and I'd read all the packaging of the stuff in the trolley when we went shopping, read all the newspapers, magazines lying around, read all the street signs and make associations from that. When I say 'read' I mean analyse the spelling and commit it to memory. I've done the same with French and Italian and have figured out enough to get by when I'm in those countries.

When it comes to Dutch this goes for me as well. Written Dutch and written Norwegian is more similar than spoken Dutch and spoken Norwegian (because Dutch sounds like a cat being choked which masks the underlying similarities).

Norwegian is pretty easy, especially if you are German or Dutch, and more so if you are Swedish and Danish (because of close linguistic relationships). But in general we have a simple, forgiving grammar so no reasons to not start learning Norwegians!

And if you plan to visit Norway, here's some practical information from Black Debbath:

And some more specific to our traditional foods:

Lio · June 17, 2014

My Dutch is pretty crap but I generally find grasping something of a language easier when reading it rather than listening to it and so I often find I can decipher a lot of German and Danish from my mediocre understanding of Dutch.
For some reason words and language for me are learnt much easier by reading than listening. I remember being in Holland when I was 8 and I'd read all the packaging of the stuff in the trolley when we went shopping, read all the newspapers, magazines lying around, read all the street signs and make associations from that. When I say 'read' I mean analyse the spelling and commit it to memory. I've done the same with French and Italian and have figured out enough to get by when I'm in those countries.
When it comes to Dutch this goes for me as well. Written Dutch and written Norwegian is more similar than spoken Dutch and spoken Norwegian (because Dutch sounds like a cat being choked which masks the underlying similarities).
Norwegian is pretty easy, especially if you are German or Dutch, and more so if you are Swedish and Danish (because of close linguistic relationships). But in general we have a simple, forgiving grammar so no reasons to not start learning Norwegians!
And if you plan to visit Norway, here's some practical information from Black Debbath:

And some more specific to our traditional foods:

As a child, I once went to Denmark, and written Danish is indeed often easy to understand. I was so confident I went into a bakery to buy bread and was incredibly disappointed they didn't understand what I was saying, pronouncing it phonetically :lol: I would love to learn Norwegian one day, but I think it was a mistake to take on Swedish after I'd already studied Danish. I always mix them now and always have to think twice to determine which is Danish and which Swedish. It would only get worse if I ever tried Norwegian.

YOUCOULDBEMINE. · June 17, 2014

So, if anyone read my links you'd see that Indo-Aryan languages are rated like this (based on how complex and irregular they are):
Classic Greek: 5.5
Czech: 5.5
Slovak: 5.5
Polish: 5.0
Sanskrit: 5.0
Icelandic: 5.0
Faroese: 5.0
Lithuanian: 5.0
Old Irish: 5.0
Greek: 5.0
Albanian: 5.0
Latvian: 4.5
Nepali: 4.5
Punjabi: 4.5
Irish: 4.5
Scottish Gaelic: 4.5
Serbo-Croatian: 4.5
Manx: 4.5
Slovenian: 4.0
Russian: 4.0
Armenian: 4.0
Welsh: 4.0
Breton: 4.0
Sinhala: 4.0
Kurdish: 4.0
Ossetian: 4.0
Hindi: 4.0
Bulgarian: 3.5
Macedonian: 3.5
German: 3.5
Bengali: 3.5
Dutch: 3.0
Italian: 3.0
Danish: 3.0
Persian: 3.0
Portuguese: 3.0
Romanian: 3.0
French: 3.0
Swedish: 2.5
English: 2.5
Spanish: 2.5
Neapolitan: 2.5
Afrikaans: 2.0
Norwegian: 2.0
But all of these none-Indo-Aryan languages might be much harder: Navajo, Tsez, Kung (language family), Pirahã, Basque, Comanche, Archi, Etruscan, Northwest/Northeast Caucasian (language family) and Aboriginal Australian (language family).
So no, English simply isn't among the hardest languages to learn.

Czech was the hardest language I ever tried to learn. Glad that that has been proved
Surprised to see that Norwegian and Afrikaans are equally 'simple', because Afrikaans is basically simplified Dutch.
Norwegian and Danish are pretty close to Dutch as well. I know a few Danish people who learned to speak Dutch in no-time.
Kudos to your friends I hardly ever meet (foreign) people that speak Dutch
My Dutch is pretty crap but I generally find grasping something of a language easier when reading it rather than listening to it and so I often find I can decipher a lot of German and Danish from my mediocre understanding of Dutch.
For some reason words and language for me are learnt much easier by reading than listening. I remember being in Holland when I was 8 and I'd read all the packaging of the stuff in the trolley when we went shopping, read all the newspapers, magazines lying around, read all the street signs and make associations from that. When I say 'read' I mean analyse the spelling and commit it to memory. I've done the same with French and Italian and have figured out enough to get by when I'm in those countries.

Haha that's pretty impressive tho.

SoulMonster · June 17, 2014

As a child, I once went to Denmark, and written Danish is indeed often easy to understand. I was so confident I went into a bakery to buy bread and was incredibly disappointed they didn't understand what I was saying, pronouncing it phonetically I would love to learn Norwegian one day, but I think it was a mistake to take on Swedish after I'd already studied Danish. I always mix them now and always have to think twice to determine which is Danish and which Swedish. It would only get worse if I ever tried Norwegian.

Haha, yes, that sounds like Danish. It is easier if you stick a potato in your throat. If you only learn one of Danish, Swedish or Norwegian well, you should be able to understand the others and get around.

Redhead74 · June 17, 2014

When it comes to Dutch this goes for me as well. Written Dutch and written Norwegian is more similar than spoken Dutch and spoken Norwegian (because Dutch sounds like a cat being choked which masks the underlying similarities).
Norwegian is pretty easy, especially if you are German or Dutch, and more so if you are Swedish and Danish (because of close linguistic relationships). But in general we have a simple, forgiving grammar so no reasons to not start learning Norwegians!
And if you plan to visit Norway, here's some practical information from Black Debbath:

And some more specific to our traditional foods:

For 29 years the only reason I've ever had to visit Norway is:

Morten Harket :wub:

Magne Furuholmen :wub:

Pal Waaktaar :wub:

And I didn't even have to look up the spelling :lol:

Saw them live in Amsterdam on November 18 2003 which was a dream come true. :wub: :wub: :wub:

SoulMonster · June 17, 2014

Johnny Drama · June 17, 2014

So, if anyone read my links you'd see that Indo-Aryan languages are rated like this (based on how complex and irregular they are):
Classic Greek: 5.5
Czech: 5.5
Slovak: 5.5
Polish: 5.0
Sanskrit: 5.0
Icelandic: 5.0
Faroese: 5.0
Lithuanian: 5.0
Old Irish: 5.0
Greek: 5.0
Albanian: 5.0
Latvian: 4.5
Nepali: 4.5
Punjabi: 4.5
Irish: 4.5
Scottish Gaelic: 4.5
Serbo-Croatian: 4.5
Manx: 4.5
Slovenian: 4.0
Russian: 4.0
Armenian: 4.0
Welsh: 4.0
Breton: 4.0
Sinhala: 4.0
Kurdish: 4.0
Ossetian: 4.0
Hindi: 4.0
Bulgarian: 3.5
Macedonian: 3.5
German: 3.5
Bengali: 3.5
Dutch: 3.0
Italian: 3.0
Danish: 3.0
Persian: 3.0
Portuguese: 3.0
Romanian: 3.0
French: 3.0
Swedish: 2.5
English: 2.5
Spanish: 2.5
Neapolitan: 2.5
Afrikaans: 2.0
Norwegian: 2.0
But all of these none-Indo-Aryan languages might be much harder: Navajo, Tsez, Kung (language family), Pirahã, Basque, Comanche, Archi, Etruscan, Northwest/Northeast Caucasian (language family) and Aboriginal Australian (language family).
So no, English simply isn't among the hardest languages to learn.

Sorry to be a cunt, but you mean Indo-European, right?

Quite interesting that two of the main forbears of the Indo-European languages, bar PIE itself, in Classical Greek and Sanskrit are two of the hardest. Maybe a sign that the older a language, the more time to evolve and become more complex?

Does anyone here from a non-English speaking background, that is fluent regardless find the language to be lacking in the way of expression etc?

Redhead74 · June 17, 2014

I am now going to touch myself :wub:

Mortens voice in Summer Moved On = multiple orgasms

Edited June 17, 2014 by Redhead74

SoulMonster · June 17, 2014

Sorry to be a cunt, but you mean Indo-European, right?
Quite interesting that two of the main forbears of the Indo-European languages, bar PIE itself, in Classical Greek and Sanskrit are two of the hardest. Maybe a sign that the older a language, the more time to evolve and become more complex?
Does anyone here from a non-English speaking background, that is fluent regardless find the language to be lacking in the way of expression etc?

Sorry, yes, I meant Indo-European.

So if the observation that extinct languages are generally more complex than extant languages holds true, then that may be the explanation why they died out or evolved into languages that are less complex and hence less of a strain to learn?

Thin White Duke · June 17, 2014

American English where they use a faucet instead of a tap
Yeah I always belly up to the bar and order Budweiser on faucet.
BTW - English is one of the hardest to learn, what other language has words that are spelled the same but have two entirely different meanings depending on context.
Dutch, for instance. There are countless words with different meanings, some examples:
stam: tribe or trunk (of a tree)
haar: her or hair
heet: hot or is called
erg: awful or very

And Portuguese and Spanish have homonyms too. Actually I think it's not uncommon in many languages.

I agree with who said that English makes no sense sometimes, especially when reading. The same letter can be read of multiple ways depending on the word. In most latin languages you might not know a word and you would still be sure how to read it. The rules have very few exceptions.

Still, English is in general an easy language. Or at least I found it easy.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Thin White Duke

Thin White Duke · June 17, 2014

I've done the same with French and Italian and have figured out enough to get by when I'm in those countries.

Then it's curious that you said French is harder because they have feminine and masculine words. You should know that not only French uses masculine and feminine when referring to objects. Italian uses it too. And Portuguese and Spanish. And probably more language, at least the Latin ones that are the ones I slightly know.

Lio · June 17, 2014

I've done the same with French and Italian and have figured out enough to get by when I'm in those countries.
Then it's curious that you said French is harder because they have feminine and masculine words. You should know that not only French uses masculine and feminine when referring to objects. Italian uses it too. And Portuguese and Spanish. And probably more language, at least the Latin ones that are the ones I slightly know.

Dutch has masculine, feminine and neuter words. Come to think of it, most German languages have them, I think.

Thin White Duke · June 17, 2014

I've done the same with French and Italian and have figured out enough to get by when I'm in those countries.
Then it's curious that you said French is harder because they have feminine and masculine words. You should know that not only French uses masculine and feminine when referring to objects. Italian uses it too. And Portuguese and Spanish. And probably more language, at least the Latin ones that are the ones I slightly know.
Dutch has masculine, feminine and neuter words. Come to think of it, most German languages have them, I think.

Didn't know that. If I recall Russian had grammatical gender too but I am not sure. I should have paid more attention in class. :lol: That's one of the things why I think English is relatively easy. it doesn't have the gender thing and with 2 articles they are done.

sturginho · June 17, 2014

English also does not use diacritics or accents unless you count the umlaut in Spinal Tap

SoulMonster · June 17, 2014

I am now going to touch myself
Mortens voice in Summer Moved On = multiple orgasms

Sex by proxy. I doubt my wife will approve. I will not post any more A-HA videos.

Edited June 17, 2014 by SoulMonster

Snake-Pit · June 17, 2014

I like that there is an English speaking world, and it's not just England. The world doesn't speak English, but there is an 'English speaking world'.

There is the Welsh speaking world, but according to Wiki, most Welsh speaking people in Wales also speak English and most Welsh speaking people in Chubut, Argentina also speak Spanish. - The Welsh Speaking World.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Snake-Pit

Lithium · June 17, 2014

I like that there is an English speaking world, and it's not just England. The world doesn't speak English, but there is an 'English speaking world'.

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