GnR’s place in hard rock history?

[ralebava]

AFD is considered the best hardrock album on history. That places GNR on the top 10 at least.

[Little EMO Annie]

Too few albums unfortunately.

Well there may not be a ton of albums,but the ones we have are some of the greatest rock music ever written!

[smoking guns]

This was the Stones on the verge of being a real hard rock power house. You can clearly see the influence on GNR...

[mike bibby]

Zeppelin

Sabbath

ac/dc

metallica

Van Halen

Hendrix

Nirvana

GNR

[Apollo]

What current bands do we see now that have an obvious GnR influence?

You can trace the genealogy of the Stones and Beatles onto bands after them.

How does the GnR line play out? If they changed music and influenced other bands......who are those bands?

[Apollo]

Too few albums unfortunately.

Well there may not be a ton of albums,but the ones we have are some of the greatest rock music ever written!

But that's your personal opinion. This isn't a "whose my favorite band" list.

The output does matter.

Rolling Stone magazine did a 500 best albums of all time list. They had over a 100 voters on the panel. Ranging from current rock stars to old rockers to music critics and writers to people involved in the music business (producers, writers, executives, etc) - people who make their living in the music world.

That's a range of people with way less bias than posters on a GnR forum.

Those people voted three Stones records ahead of Appetite. And a fourth one just two places behind.

So Appetite might be mine and your favorite rock album. But to the general population and people involved in the music world......the Stones have four albums at the same level or higher. (Three higher, one the same).

GnR has one album voted into the top 500 albums of all time. Not just hard rock albums, but all variety of music albums of all time. Stones had TEN. The Who had SEVEN. GnR has ONE.

So the number of albums really does matter.

If one band was able to break that top 500 mark ten different years and another band could do it only once......there really is no comparison.

You are a big movie/actor fan.

Imagine having a "who is the best actor of all time" debate. And your choice has won 10 oscars, and one of those performances is generally thought of has one of the five best performances of all time.

The other guy chooses an actor who has won one Oscar.

No real comparison.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Apollo

[DieselDaisy]

Too few albums unfortunately.

Well there may not be a ton of albums,but the ones we have are some of the greatest rock music ever written!

Well yes, Guns have Appetite but Jimi has Are You Experienced?, Axis and Ladyland. The Stones have Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Exile and Beggars; the Beatles, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Pepper, White Album!

It is a moot point if you are comparing Guns to the absolute greatest as all of the greats have struck gold on at least a number of occasions.

[DieselDaisy]

Calling Jimi 'hard rock' is all defined by, at what stage you draw your genre boundaries? Certainly Hendrix and Cream, the two power trios, were seen as influences on Zeppelin and Sabbath. Hendrix's appropriation of power chords, distortion, feedback and special effects were pivotal in the change-over from rock/pop to the hard rock genre. 'Purple Haze', 'Foxy Lady', 'Voodoo Child', 'Fire' would certainly qualify for the hard rock genre. But then Jimi had a different set of aesthetics from subsequent 'hard rock' bands like Zeppelin and Sabbath. Jimi remained wedded to a black musical tradition encompassing blues, jazz and soul. He also had more than an element of transcendental hippydom which squarely puts him at odds with a heavy metal band like Sabbath. I see Jimi as this huge titanic figurehead who encompassed a lot of different music. He was just too big a figure to fit squarely in one box. If anything he was less hard rock just before his death; his music was becoming more rooted to a rhythm and blues and a proto funk sound which echoed Sly and the Family Stone. His music was probably more hard rock when he burst on the scene in 1967 and took on board the aesthetics of British power pop and psychedelia. It was a lot less hard rock in 1970 when he died. He also had these Jazz projects and things he wanted to do in that genre, a duet with Miles Davis for instance!

[Darkness Descends]

Too few albums unfortunately.

Well there may not be a ton of albums,but the ones we have are some of the greatest rock music ever written!

Well yes, Guns have Appetite but Jimi has Are You Experienced?, Axis and Ladyland. The Stones have Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Exile and Beggars; the Beatles, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Pepper, White Album!

It is a moot point if you are comparing Guns to the absolute greatest as all of the greats have struck gold on at least a number of occasions.

Sex Pistols are considered to be one of the greatest rock bands and highly influencial and they had just one official album.

I agree that Guns ruined their reputation by breaking up the core members in 1996 and zero activity post that... but they made such a huge home run in 1987-88 that they made sure that they can stand next to the greatest. Atleast they are at the same level as Metallica.

[Sixes]

Metallica spearheaded a brand new genre/sub genre. They had no radio airplay, didnt make a music video until their 4th album in a time when videos were incredibly vital and crucial. They steadily grew a fanbase with each album.

Guns N' Roses rode the hair metal wave.

[HubbaBubba]

There's a lot of anti gnr sentiment here but it's hard to argue that Appetite isn't among the very best rock albums ever made. And I mean top three. It's the original 'all killer-no filler' prototype. No high concept, no polical undertones - just a slab of fucking great, original music.

[Little EMO Annie]

Apollo your movie and actor comparison is interesting. But the Academy has been known to snub some great actors and movies. Madonna and Ice Cube both deserved nominations. Madonna for Evita. Ice cube for Boyz in Da Hood. One of the most iconic actors ever. James Dean only made a very few movies. And a lot of great British stage actors have played some rather stupid roles in Hollywood movies.

I always considered GNR to be so much more than a hair metal band.

There are just so many epic and visionary songs.

[HubbaBubba]

If you call guns hair metal and really believe that's true, you're only really successfully convincing people that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[EvanG]

Too few albums unfortunately.

Well there may not be a ton of albums,but the ones we have are some of the greatest rock music ever written!

Well yes, Guns have Appetite but Jimi has Are You Experienced?, Axis and Ladyland. The Stones have Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers, Exile and Beggars; the Beatles, Rubber Soul, Revolver, Pepper, White Album!

It is a moot point if you are comparing Guns to the absolute greatest as all of the greats have struck gold on at least a number of occasions.

Sex Pistols are considered to be one of the greatest rock bands and highly influencial and they had just one official album.

Maybe influencial and they got a lot of credit for that yes, but considered to be one of the greatest rock bands? I've never heard that statement before.

[Sixes]

I've seen parts of the transcript floating around. This was ages ago though, I never bothered to save them. IIRC is was Meegan's testimony. Some articles do use the transcripts to state what Axl did to Erin; tie her up, dump her in the closet for hours, and then sexually assault her.

I guess someone could get a copy and post it. Maybe SoulMonster, you like collecting quotes don't you? Why don't you have that on your site, I wonder.

If this is true, then i don't want a reunion anymore in any shape or form

In fact i wish Axl would never perform publicly again

Maybe that is one of the reasons why Axl was a recluse for 6-7 years

I can't imagine how a woman can defend a wife beater

Celebrity worship sometimes gets too far, imo

I think you are talking about People Magazine Battered Beauty front cover story. It took its material from Stephanie and Erin's statements they had put in court. Wasnt proven.

However, Slash officially did put it in his book that he saw some violence against a woman but ended it with brushing that statement of in fear of getting prodded.

By the way... narcissistic rockstars/musicians from way way back werent necessarily great role models. Zeppelin guys used to stick little shark fishes in womens private parts... Motley Crue used to have contests of who can get away with getting oral sex without bathing for days... Nikki said he passed a month.

People sure do get testy when gnr and hair metal are brought up, as if it's evil.

They looked hair metal with the makeup, clothes and teased hair.

Their lyrics on afd were hair metal 101.

Scom is hair metal ballad 101

Scom video is hair metal video 101.

They were from the same scene as every other hair metal band.

They were no different. Saying they were some revolutionary band is patently false. They did nothing new and brought nothing new to the genre. What genre? Hair metal.

To pretend they were different is one's own insecurity with the hair metal label.

Afd wasnt all killer no filler. It was some good songs and some bad songs. Like other hair metal albums.

Their sound was hair metal...yes, 101.

They were on all hair metal magazine covers. Why? Because they were hair metal.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Sixes

[HubbaBubba]

Saying that the sex pistols were 'one of the greatest rock bands' is beyond retarded, no doubt about that.

But the point above that doesn't hold up either.

[EvanG]

I never knew exactly what the definition of hair metal was, so I looked it up:

Rock or heavy metal music of the late 1980s performed by highly commercialized bands characterized by elaborate hairstyles, grotesque makeup, and highly theatrical costumes and stage sets.

So was GnR a hair metal band? Who cares... why must people always label everything. The same thing happened in the early 90s... every rock band from Seattle was considered grunge no matter how different their sound was. Nirvana sounded nothing like Alice In Chains. Pearl Jam sounded nothing like the Melvins.

I guess GnR were different from other ''rock'' bands in LA because they threw a lot of different rock genres in their music like punk and more bluesy stuff and that is why they appealed to a lot of people. Therefore their sound was different and some really good songs combined with the wild image they created is why they stood out from those cheesy metal bands.

[Strange Broue]

The Stones were a much bigger influence on hard rock than the Beatles could ever dream of being.

Bands that don't exist if it wasn't for the Stones:

Aerosmith

Guns N Roses

AC/DC

Guns is good, the rest crimes against ears. But no Slash without them, so indirectly important. I assure you The Beatles influenced many hard rock bands. The Stones as well, but it's too specific. Overall I think The Beatles influenced more people and musicians. They are the most influential exactly because they spoke to all different kinds of people and musicians.

Likes GNR

Think Aerosmith is crimes against ears

i rest my case

[Sixes]

I never knew exactly what the definition of hair metal was, so I looked it up:

Rock or heavy metal music of the late 1980s performed by highly commercialized bands characterized by elaborate hairstyles, grotesque makeup, and highly theatrical costumes and stage sets.

So was GnR a hair metal band? Who cares... why must people always label everything. The same thing happened in the early 90s... every rock band from Seattle was considered grunge no matter how different their sound was. Nirvana sounded nothing like Alice In Chains. Pearl Jam sounded nothing like the Melvins.

I guess GnR were different from other ''rock'' bands in LA because they threw a lot of different rock genres in their music like punk and more bluesy stuff and that is why they appealed to a lot of people. Therefore their sound was different and some really good songs combined with the wild image they created is why they stood out from those cheesy metal bands.

The bluesy sound was a hallmark of many hard rock/hair metal bands of the era.

I fail to see anything remotely related to punk in gnr's sound whatsoever.

Certainly the bluesy rock sound of their inspirations shines thru as well as the influence of their contemporaries at the time in sound, guitar style, lyrics and axl's screeching vocals. Those types of vocals were a big part of the scene and still are.

I'm not big on labels for the most part but if you're talking about gnr and their era, the big falsehood is that they were different or above the scene when they werent. They broke thru most of the pack in terms of record sales although a lot of those bands were also selling millions of albums and millions of singles. A lot of people hear the term hair metal and it's a turn off, a blight on music and that their favorite band couldnt possibly be part of it. So what if they are? It doesnt change your taste

[Strange Broue]

I wouldn't call The Stones hard rock either. Not trying to t.r.o.l.l. I just got off topic a little bit. On topic: I think The Jimi Experience was psychedelic bluesy hard rock. I consider them to be the finest hard rock group ever.

Whenever somebody disagrees with him be always says they are t-rolling.

Beatles are most overrated band in history.

Every American soldier should be doing longer jail sentences than Charles Manson.

Manson being in prison is the most hypocritical action in the history of the U.S.

That's the kind of deep thinker you are dealing with.

But he is an obvious cupcake

Whenever i point out an obvious cupcake, you came here to defend that cupcake

Coincidence? i think not

So you saved my earlier posts in a totally unrelated thread and pasted here to justify your point?

and you '"called out" my obsession against you lolololol

Btw it's not my fault that you don't even know that he never killed a human being yet he served one of the longest sentences in the US history...

We simply disagree

Yeah, cause you're simply wrong.

AC/DC with their "obvious" approach is better than the beatles ever was

Edited December 22, 2015 by Strange Broue

[Mr. Dude]

I've seen parts of the transcript floating around. This was ages ago though, I never bothered to save them. IIRC is was Meegan's testimony. Some articles do use the transcripts to state what Axl did to Erin; tie her up, dump her in the closet for hours, and then sexually assault her.

I guess someone could get a copy and post it. Maybe SoulMonster, you like collecting quotes don't you? Why don't you have that on your site, I wonder.

If this is true, then i don't want a reunion anymore in any shape or form

In fact i wish Axl would never perform publicly again

Maybe that is one of the reasons why Axl was a recluse for 6-7 years

I can't imagine how a woman can defend a wife beater

Celebrity worship sometimes gets too far, imo

I think you are talking about People Magazine Battered Beauty front cover story. It took its material from Stephanie and Erin's statements they had put in court. Wasnt proven.

However, Slash officially did put it in his book that he saw some violence against a woman but ended it with brushing that statement of in fear of getting prodded.

By the way... narcissistic rockstars/musicians from way way back werent necessarily great role models. Zeppelin guys used to stick little shark fishes in womens private parts... Motley Crue used to have contests of who can get away with getting oral sex without bathing for days... Nikki said he passed a month.

People sure do get testy when gnr and hair metal are brought up, as if it's evil.

They looked hair metal with the makeup, clothes and teased hair.

Their lyrics on afd were hair metal 101.

Scom is hair metal ballad 101

Scom video is hair metal video 101.

They were from the same scene as every other hair metal band.

They were no different. Saying they were some revolutionary band is patently false. They did nothing new and brought nothing new to the genre. What genre? Hair metal.

To pretend they were different is one's own insecurity with the hair metal label.

Afd wasnt all killer no filler. It was some good songs and some bad songs. Like other hair metal albums.

Their sound was hair metal...yes, 101.

They were on all hair metal magazine covers. Why? Because they were hair metal.

I disagree with mostly everything you said, but I do agree on the point that AFD wasn't all killer and no filler. In fact, I think it has a higher percentage of filler than either UYI or CD. I think there's 4-5 filler songs that could be considered filler on AFD. While UYI may have more filler songs that people could consider filler, I think the filler ratio is higher. While I don't believe there is any filler on CD I could see potentially 1-2 filler songs that could be perceived as filler. Regardless, CD clearly has far less filler than any other album GNR released. Filler.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Mr. Dude

[smoking guns]

Jimi Hendrix had some hard rock songs and played a lot of hard rock guitar, but he had a ton of non hard rock songs. He could do it all.

Filler on ADF?

Think about you

Anything Goes

your crazy

My Michelle

I can enjoy all those songs but they are the 4 weakest

WTTJ

PC

SCOM

NT

RQ

ISE

BROWNSTONE

OTGM

^^^^ these songs are on another level.

[foghat43]

It's really an undeniable fact that GnR was part of and arose from the "hair metal" scene in L.A. And they did take on certain aspects of that scene's image, sound and culture...especially early on. But to imply that they were just another hair band and somehow on the same level with bands like Poison, Ratt, Faster Pussycat, etc. is not a fair statement. GnR clearly had something that set them apart from their peers. Calling GnR just another hair metal band is like calling Zeppelin just another British blues band.

[Mr. Dude]

It's really an undeniable fact that GnR was part of and arose from the "hair metal" scene in L.A. And they did take on certain aspects of that scene's image, sound and culture...especially early on. But to imply that they were just another hair band and somehow on the same level with bands like Poison, Ratt, Faster Pussycat, etc. is not a fair statement. GnR clearly had something that set them apart from their peers. Calling GnR just another hair metal band is like calling Zeppelin just another British blues band.

I could agree with that. I don't really buy hair metal as a genre. Like grunge, I think its more of a marketing term. Its more an indicator of fashion than it is of a musical styling.

[Sixes]

It's really an undeniable fact that GnR was part of and arose from the "hair metal" scene in L.A. And they did take on certain aspects of that scene's image, sound and culture...especially early on. But to imply that they were just another hair band and somehow on the same level with bands like Poison, Ratt, Faster Pussycat, etc. is not a fair statement. GnR clearly had something that set them apart from their peers. Calling GnR just another hair metal band is like calling Zeppelin just another British bluinfluences, their look.es band.

What is that something that is so "clear"?

Does your level mean in record sales? Because then GNR are on a different level from say, Tora Tora. But in terms of their sound, their look, their lyrics, their pouty red lips in music videos, their blush and eye shadow, the screeching vocals, the babys and the sugars and the honeys and the songs and ballads about da bitches and songs about partying and drugs and their photo shoots with the obligatory bottle of jack, the dangling marlboros hanging out of the faux dazed faces of fake tough guys in spandex underwear and pants, the whole calculated thing with millions of dollars of major label support behind them? ..... that's all hair metal and a product of the times. Nothing new, nothing revolutionary, they didnt change music or bring back danger or any other press clipping nonsense. They were, in fact, just another band that broke thru to the mainstream. And by breaking thru, they used, as I said, the millions and millions of dollars of label support, marketing and money. All very calculated and a lot of it fabricated. They werent punk in anyway, shape or form. The biggest difference between them and a lot of other hair metal bands is the marketing.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Sixes