Free, new album by Iggy Pop

[Len Cnut]

Apparently its gonna be all fuckin' ambient and weird and trippy. God bless Iggy, in his 70s now and still pushing it, there's not an Iggy album out there thats like...complacent/not trying to do something or make a special point and he's still fuckin' like that.

 

[Sydney Fan]

Im surprised he doesnt have his own radio show i think he would be a good interviewer. Ive seen some music forums hes spoken at and he makes an interesting person to listen to.

Also i reckon hes done more drugs in his life than keith richards and hes still alive. 

[soon]

I’ll gladly take a new iggy pop album! Based on the lyrics of post pop depression I was onside with the speculation that he was pulling the plug after that album. To me he seemed to be ranting that people just ain’t worth making albums for anymore in that one track.

free seems like a perfect companion to ppd. The inevitable “well what do you want then?” Answered in 5 words.

anyone know if he had a collaborator?

[Len Cnut]

17 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Im surprised he doesnt have his own radio show i think he would be a good interviewer. Ive seen some music forums hes spoken at and he makes an interesting person to listen to.

Also i reckon hes done more drugs in his life than keith richards and hes still alive. 

He does have his own radio show, its on the BBC.

[Len Cnut]

3 minutes ago, soon said:

I’ll gladly take a new iggy pop album! Based on the lyrics of post pop depression I was onside with the speculation that he was pulling the plug after that album. To me he seemed to be ranting that people just ain’t worth making albums for anymore in that one track.

free seems like a perfect companion to ppd. The inevitable “well what do you want then?” Answered in 5 words.

anyone know if he had a collaborator?

Yeah, its one of them where he kinda gives the musical bit over to people and just lends it his voice, which he has rarely done, Post Pop Depression he did it with, David Bowie he sort of did it with, couple of other people though its often to varying degrees of collaboration, Post Pop Depression is the only one where he kinda handed that part over substantially though obviously he had to like it, perhaps The Idiot too.  

I think the man kinda wants to wind down but this later stuff is pretty mindblowing, the French stuff he did like Apres and the other one thats name escapes me, hes really really never stopped moving, even if the moves were kinda small and incremental there’s always enough going on from album to album that keeps your attention, of all his albums (and i have them all) the only one I don’t like is Instinct and thats only because thats kinda his metal album and I’ve never been one for metal.  I really do think he is one of the foremost artists of the 20th century, such is the regard I hold him in, there are so many little things, side things that he has done that are of substance, I have so much respect for him, hes up there in that upper pencentile for me.  I really think pop music, at least in some ways, is a closed book now, I think we’re in a gestative period now where culture is struggling to find something to fill that cultural void that is left where pop music used to be and Iggy figures heavily in that book, among the most prominent in my eyes.

[soon]

As genius as he is that still would've blown my mind if he had also composed that ambient music.

you know, Id forgotten all about Apres! Just revisiting some tracks now (thanks for reminder!). I wish I knew his library as well as you. But I do love his work! Post Pop Depression had such an impact on me when it was released and its been in heavy rotation since. The seething commentary on modern life but from an insider, not an academic lens, really hits the spot for me. Do you figure its fair to say that theres a hint of Boom Bap (the hip hop form) on tracks like American Valhalla? Id be interested in hearing that taken further. And Free seems like its perfectly suited for my mood these days.

49 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I really think pop music, at least in some ways, is a closed book now, I think we’re in a gestative period now where culture is struggling to find something to fill that cultural void that is left where pop music used to be and Iggy figures heavily in that book, among the most prominent in my eyes.

I agree with your rating of him and his role in our cultural times. Maybe he'll keep going until he decisively opens the new book of popular culture!? Like he'll be the flying car of motown!

[Len Cnut]

Quote

The seething commentary on modern life but from an insider, not an academic lens, really hits the spot for me.

His work is kinda like that throughout.  Even the earlier stuff, which is often painted with the dumb brush is actually just...concise.  Succicint.  And when you find out what the songs are about and the things they reference its always like...some kinda cultural thing or literature or, y'know, all kindsa shit.  Burroughs, Michel Houellebecq, all kinds of shit.  Early on his work to me was like, in performance at least, like a mad white blue collar American Little Richard.   

Quote

Do you figure its fair to say that theres a hint of Boom Bap (the hip hop form) on tracks like American Valhalla?

Thats a really curious proposition...where do you see that? 

[soon]

25 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

His work is kinda like that throughout.  Even the earlier stuff, which is often painted with the dumb brush is actually just...concise.  Succicint.  And when you find out what the songs are about and the things they reference its always like...some kinda cultural thing or literature or, y'know, all kindsa shit.  Burroughs, Michel Houellebecq, all kinds of shit.  Early on his work to me was like, in performance at least, like a mad white blue collar American Little Richard.  

Nice. I think thats a deceptive thing about the working class and culture, culture is consumed and then integrated into the person. Whereas in high culture its more important to display that ones in tune that a large part of the experience is external. Yeah, I can see the subtext oozing out of every line, even if I rarely know the subtext. 

They were pretty classy with atonal and modal jazz theory and even some polyrhythmic touches on Raw Power with the piano. Using them as expression rather then appropriating them as artifice.

25 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Thats a really curious proposition...where do you see that? 

I think the main bass and drum lick is like... not quite and inversion of Boom Bap, but it sits together. AV is like "Boom-Boom", but it needs the eventual "Bap" to resolve the phrases. Like how not all blues shuffles are the same but they serve the same function. To me the appeal of the riff is that its clunky and abrupt. So to my ears theres an implied Boom bap needed to turn the phrases around.

So like *Boom chic Boom-Boom, chic Boom-boom, chic boob-boom-Boom Bap em* on repeat.

or lyrically: Ive shot my gun, Ive used my knife (Boom bap) this hasn't been an easy life (boom bap)

No?

Like I say just a hint of it. And the reason I think it would be cool to hear more is that Iggy has expressed how the sound of automotive production lines influenced him - theres an onomatopoeia to his rhythmic sense. And boom bap is this percussive and industrial sounding thing too.

edit: Id love to hear Biggie flow over the main riff!

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by soon

[Len Cnut]

Quote

Nice. I think thats a deceptive thing about the working class and culture, culture is consumed and then integrated into the person. Whereas in high culture its more important to display that ones in tune that a large part of the experience is external. Yeah, I can see the subtext oozing out of every line, even if I rarely know the subtext. 

Yeah...and Iggy always seemed like, he wasn't really comfortable being either.  He's quite deprecating of The Stooges and their dum dum boy roots but then at the same time its worth noting that he deliberately stepped into a very blue collar art form and felt a great affinity to that as compared to his scholastic education which was with some really sharp rich kids.  He's a closet intellectual, is Iggy, I feel like he'd maybe hate being called that.

Quote

They were pretty classy with atonal and modal jazz theory and even some polyrhythmic touches on Raw Power with the piano. Using them as expression rather then appropriating them as artifice.

Their early stuff was like free form art, sticking mics in blenders and vaccum cleaners on stage, it weren't even music in the sense of like, 3 minute pop songs, they just dropped acid and jammed and these musical motifs came about.  I think they had like 3 songs when they got signed by Elektra, the rest they made up from their jam standards one night in the Chelsea Hotel.  But yeah, there's always some crazy shit like that, Funhouse has like, mad Coltrane influenced whiteboy sax on it, some of the post Raw Power stuff like Cock in my Pocket, I Got a Right, Gimme Some Skin, its got touches of honky tonk piano in it and all sorts. 

Quote

 

So like *Boom chic Boom-Boom, chic Boom-boom, chic boob-boom-Boom Bap em* on repeat.

or lyrically: Ive shot my gun, Ive used my knife (Boom bap) this hasn't been an easy life (boom bap)

No?

Like I say just a hint of it. And the reason I think it would be cool to hear more is that Iggy has expressed how the sound of automotive production lines influenced him - theres an onomatopoeia to his rhythmic sense. And boom bap is this percussive and industrial sounding thing too.

edit: Id love to hear Biggie flow over the main riff!

 

There is the theory y'know that popular music in general is characterised by making percussive sounds of instruments not meant for it.  The blues, at the heart of it, is black people playing a beat with a stringed instrument, rock n roll, at least the fundamentals of it, can be boiled down to the two string Chuck Berry boom ba boom ba boom ba boom ba boom ba boom, that shit, again, is making a percussion instrument of an instrument that ain't for it, Keith Richards rhythm stuff too, its just like...nuanced beat making almost, you could interpret that shit in drum form and it comes down to beats, even punk, which is like, supposedly, the supreme whiteboy art form, stripped of all black influence, its making the music percussive if you really think about it, its all incredibly incestuous, there'd be no blues without white influence and there'd be on punk without the other.  Lead work, synth, is all kinda periphery.  Valuable not doubt, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't in love with that shit too but in terms of a discussion on the construct of this shit you can really see like...an on-going thread regarding the power of simplicity.  Its why I hate when people get snotty about popular music because its all kinda dingy dancehall stuff, thats the proper context for blues, rock n roll, hip hop, it wasn't made in or made for stadiums (well, at least not until later in terms of the latter).

I guess the point that I'm making is, on some level, its all like that.  I mean how far is boom bap (not only in terms of vocal delivery but the percussive effect), theoretically speaking, from the notion of say Bukka White did?  So yeah, there are kinda shades I guess, I see what you mean.  The description 'percussive and industrial sounding' really hits the spot. 

Quote

edit: Id love to hear Biggie flow over the main riff!

KRS One might be a better shout

Edited July 19, 2019 by Len Cnut

[soon]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Yeah...and Iggy always seemed like, he wasn't really comfortable being either.  He's quite deprecating of The Stooges and their dum dum boy roots but then at the same time its worth noting that he deliberately stepped into a very blue collar art form and felt a great affinity to that as compared to his scholastic education which was with some really sharp rich kids.  He's a closet intellectual, is Iggy, I feel like he'd maybe hate being called that.

Right, I forgot he was well schooled. Was he from money?

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Their early stuff was like free form art, sticking mics in blenders and vaccum cleaners on stage, it weren't even music in the sense of like, 3 minute pop songs, they just dropped acid and jammed and these musical motifs came about.  I think they had like 3 songs when they got signed by Elektra, the rest they made up from their jam standards one night in the Chelsea Hotel. 

No way!? The were signed on three tracks and then created the rest in one session?? Bonkers!!

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

There is the theory y'know that popular music in general is characterised by making percussive sounds of instruments not meant for it.  The blues, at the heart of it, is black people playing a beat with a stringed instrument, rock n roll, at least the fundamentals of it, can be boiled down to the two string Chuck Berry boom ba boom ba boom ba boom ba boom ba boom, that shit, again, is making a percussion instrument of an instrument that ain't for it, Keith Richards rhythm stuff too, its just like...nuanced beat making almost, you could interpret that shit in drum form and it comes down to beats, even punk, which is like, supposedly, the supreme whiteboy art form, stripped of all black influence, its making the music percussive if you really think about it, its all incredibly incestuous, there'd be no blues without white influence and there'd be on punk without the other.  Lead work, synth, is all kinda periphery.  Valuable not doubt, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't in love with that shit too but in terms of a discussion on the construct of this shit you can really see like...an on-going thread regarding the power of simplicity.

Neat. That makes sense to me. Its incestuous. Reminds me of what you told me about the 'phone call' thing that happened to create reggae when the island musicians listened to R&B and then tried to reproduce it. And like the way types of rhythms live on drums - the guy cant literally hit "Cha cha cha" every song, there has to be variations. And eventually they outsize the genre or reach outside ears, influencing creation whether subconsciously or actively. I suppose if you only take the tail of ChaChaCha eventually you get trash metal.

tangentially related. I sometimes wonder if we like these simple rhythms because thats what we can make with either 2 hands or 4 limbs. Like, if we had more limbs would we enjoy more complex rhythms?

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Its why I hate when people get snotty about popular music because its all kinda dingy dancehall stuff, thats the proper context for blues, rock n roll, hip hop, it wasn't made in or made for stadiums (well, at least not until later in terms of the latter).

My current reading would say that 'the spectical commodifies' and De La Rocha says that "the spectacle monopolize." I much prefer a bar show than a stadium. Save for Timbaland and Missy, I can see where you are coming from. TBH I can get fairly philosophical about my own beats, though. Even though they are simple too. 

But thats not all that "snooty" captures. Yeah, these are simple forms. All seemingly not all too detached from the mechanics of coitus, on the 2 and the 4. 4/4 is for the cool kids while prog and jazz is for the... nah, wait its more Madonna and the Whore??? Like 4/4 is missionary position and odd time signatures are how sex maniacs fuck. (Maybe that finally explains phenomena of white churches clapping on the 1 and 3 ) Like these simple rhythms ring true to our basest needs, like speech, motor skills and procreation. So we kind of get enamoured with them. But its just the sound of us walking basically. Where-in we can find Boom Baps and Chica booms and all the rest.

But also, Watts is up to some very subtle voodoo in those stadiums. Its all relative I guess.

 

[Len Cnut]

Quote

Right, I forgot he was well schooled. Was he from money?

Nah he was raised in a trailer in Ypsilanti Michigan, its just he had really attentive parents, scholarly even, well educated.  So yeah, he had this weird balance, he went to a pretty good school, alongside the heirs to General Motors and such but he was kinda the dirt poor kid in there.  Believe it or not he wanted to get into politics as a kid

Quote

tangentially related. I sometimes wonder if we like these simple rhythms because thats what we can make with either 2 hands or 4 limbs. Like, if we had more limbs would we enjoy more complex rhythms?

I think complex rhythms are already inherent in simple rhythms and the simpler the rhythms you play and the more you listen and become hypnotised by them the more you hear like, sub-rhythms and poly-rhythms, kinda like African drums, they sound simple as fuck but listen to em long enough and you can hear all sorts of shit in em, same with Native American shit.

Quote

But thats not all that "snooty" captures. Yeah, these are simple forms. All seemingly not all too detached from the mechanics of coitus, on the 2 and the 4. 4/4 is for the cool kids while prog and jazz is for the... nah, wait its more Madonna and the Whore??? Like 4/4 is missionary position and odd time signatures are how sex maniacs fuck. (Maybe that finally explains phenomena of white churches clapping on the 1 and 3 ) Like these simple rhythms ring true to our basest needs, like speech, motor skills and procreation. So we kind of get enamoured with them. But its just the sound of us walking basically. Where-in we can find Boom Baps and Chica booms and all the rest.

I'm gonna be thinkin' about this shit the next time I'm on the job now, thanks

[soon]

On 7/20/2019 at 5:21 AM, Len Cnut said:

Nah he was raised in a trailer in Ypsilanti Michigan, its just he had really attentive parents, scholarly even, well educated.  So yeah, he had this weird balance, he went to a pretty good school, alongside the heirs to General Motors and such but he was kinda the dirt poor kid in there.  Believe it or not he wanted to get into politics as a kid

Finally someone worth voting for!

straddling worlds is something I have an affinity for

and you’re a well read, smart af guy with working class roots.

et voila, here we are celebrating his work!

On 7/20/2019 at 5:21 AM, Len Cnut said:

 

I think complex rhythms are already inherent in simple rhythms and the simpler the rhythms you play and the more you listen and become hypnotised by them the more you hear like, sub-rhythms and poly-rhythms, kinda like African drums, they sound simple as fuck but listen to em long enough and you can hear all sorts of shit in em, same with Native American shit.

Well said. The Purdy shuffle maybe brings most of the inherent rhythms of a shuffle to life?

i gotta say that a lot of African drumming I’ve heard strikes me as complex. Big continent though. I taught myself music on an old child size Casio. Wasn’t until I went to my first ever jam session and asked “who’s up for some 16 Beat?” That I learned that African rhythms weren’t part of our pop lexicon. 

 For simplicity, whoever plays the, the what’s it called, like the beat sticks (let’s say) the block(?) in Kutis band mesmerizes me. Seems so simple but it’s so complex!! I saw Sean kuti performing his dads music and was right up front but I missed out on learning the mechanics of the music because they also had a bunch of very blessed and skilled butt dancers all over the stage

For Native American/ indigenous music I’m really only familiar with Anishinaabeg peoples (bunch of tribes) and they usually play the steady rhythm of single beats. Just ta ta ta ta ta ta ta. It is most definitely hypnotic. Whether playing one drum all together each with a stick, or playing hand drums separately but in synch there is often a subtle effect of not everyone striking exactly perfectly in time. That, along with the reverberations can start to evoke some neat rhythmic treats. But all that I’ve heard is very simple. They sometimes speed up (or maybe go to ti-tis?) or get louder but that’s often it. Plus Jingle dancing over that drumming.

Where I live a hip hop group, A Tribe Called Red throw Electric Pow Wows. It’s so awesome to hear all the beats that can be meshed with the steady drum circle beats! Must be just like you are hearing in your mind!!

On 7/20/2019 at 5:21 AM, Len Cnut said:

 

I'm gonna be thinkin' about this shit the next time I'm on the job now, thanks

123456789/123456789/123456779/123456789 

[EvanG]

Reminds me of In Praise of Nothing, in which he was the narrator. 

Edited July 22, 2019 by EvanG

[Len Cnut]

38 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Reminds me of In Praise of Nothing, in which he was the narrator. 

Did you get to see that?!  Man, I been tryna find that, sorta gave up in the end, thought it'd be one of those obscure things I'd just trip over one day, where did you see it?

EDIT: I just found the whole thing on Vimeo!

Edited July 22, 2019 by Len Cnut

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Did you get to see that?!  Man, I been tryna find that, sorta gave up in the end, thought it'd be one of those obscure things I'd just trip over one day, where did you see it?

EDIT: I just found the whole thing on Vimeo!

It was on TV here. It’s something else alright, but I quite enjoyed it, even watched it twice because it’s the type of thing you should watch more than once. I think it also works really well when you are under the influence of something, but I was totally sober when I watched it!

[Len Cnut]

24 minutes ago, EvanG said:

It was on TV here. It’s something else alright, but I quite enjoyed it, even watched it twice because it’s the type of thing you should watch more than once. I think it also works really well when you are under the influence of something, but I was totally sober when I watched it!

Your TV must be fantastic if they put shit like that on it.

[EvanG]

8 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Your TV must be fantastic if they put shit like that on it.

There's a lot of crap on TV here, don't forget we more or less started reality TV with the very first Big Brother in 1999, but there are a couple of Dutch channels that show documentaries like that quite often and quality programmes.

[J Dog]

Always good to see Iggy making new music. I loved Post Pop Depression and Ready to Die. Not sure I'll dig this one tho, I'm not really into this type of music at all but it's cool to see him still trying different stuff this late in the game.

[J Dog]

On 7/19/2019 at 10:55 AM, Sydney Fan said:

Im surprised he doesnt have his own radio show i think he would be a good interviewer. Ive seen some music forums hes spoken at and he makes an interesting person to listen to.

Also i reckon hes done more drugs in his life than keith richards and hes still alive. 

Isn't it wild that half the cats we (or at least me) listen to is like, man, how the hell are they still kickin' 

[Len Cnut]

On 24/07/2019 at 9:25 AM, J Dog said:

Isn't it wild that half the cats we (or at least me) listen to is like, man, how the hell are they still kickin' 

Its not really much of a mystery man, what kills you with drugs is the lifestyle that goes with it, someone like Iggy, he gets plenty exercise, fit as a butchers dog, they're not like brownheads on the street, they get quality gear too...and a lot of em aren't as crazy with it as people make out.  Don't get me wrong, they're still pretty nutty but...for example right, someone like Iggy, people are like 'OMG, HE DROPPED ACID FOR A SHOW' but he was kinda judicious with it too, if he knew he had a forty minute gig he'd drop acid just before so by the time its over thats when the acid is kicking in or he's getting to peaking, its not like he goes onstage tripping.  Keith Richards, another example, aside from getting the cleanest of the clean primo fuckin' gear imaginable, was very judicious, a little dinky line here, a little taste there.  And the ones that survived, they did it for like, what, 15 to 20 years?  20 years then quit, thats doable, thats most young lads really isn't it, you get into getting high about 18-20 years old then by their mid 30s they pack it in. 

The people that did it like the way we're led to believe these guys do it, Morrison, Hendrix, Keith Moon, they're dead.  This shit don't let nobody off.  Hendrix was famous for what, 3 years, he blew his fuckin' mind with all the acid and coke and downers.  Moonie, again, got famous, what, mid 60s, by the late 70s he was dead.  The ones you hear those crazy handfuls of pills at a time type stories are the ones that kick the bucket.

[Nicklord]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Its not really much of a mystery man, what kills you with drugs is the lifestyle that goes with it, someone like Iggy, he gets plenty exercise, fit as a butchers dog, they're not like brownheads on the street, they get quality gear too...and a lot of em aren't as crazy with it as people make out.  Don't get me wrong, they're still pretty nutty but...for example right, someone like Iggy, people are like 'OMG, HE DROPPED ACID FOR A SHOW' but he was kinda judicious with it too, if he knew he had a forty minute gig he'd drop acid just before so by the time its over thats when the acid is kicking in or he's getting to peaking, its not like he goes onstage tripping.  Keith Richards, another example, aside from getting the cleanest of the clean primo fuckin' gear imaginable, was very judicious, a little dinky line here, a little taste there.  And the ones that survived, they did it for like, what, 15 to 20 years?  20 years then quit, thats doable, thats most young lads really isn't it, you get into getting high about 18-20 years old then by their mid 30s they pack it in. 

The people that did it like the way we're led to believe these guys do it, Morrison, Hendrix, Keith Moon, they're dead.  This shit don't let nobody off.  Hendrix was famous for what, 3 years, he blew his fuckin' mind with all the acid and coke and downers.  Moonie, again, got famous, what, mid 60s, by the late 70s he was dead.  The ones you hear those crazy handfuls of pills at a time type stories are the ones that kick the bucket.

Yeah. I had a convo about this with my friends just yesterday and I was explaining that lifestyle is way more important. Used this as an example: Anthony Kiedis and John Frusciante, both really fucking heavy user at the time. One in a band, doing tours, recording music, eating healthy. The other doesn't have a band, just binges heroin and whatnot and doesn't leave the house. One looks healthy, one looks like a corpse

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Nicklord

[EvanG]

I think a lot has to do with luck as well. Richards was still using until he fell out of a palm tree, and he's still a heavy drinker (or so I've heard).

Anthony Kiedis is a health freak when he's not using, but at the times when he was using he was absolutely mental, but he would disappear and lock himself in a hotel room while Frusciante never made a secret of using drugs, he would shoot up during interviews and talk about it. The fact that one looks better on dope than the other, doesn't mean a lot.

Edited July 29, 2019 by EvanG

[Len Cnut]

Quote

I think a lot has to do with luck as well. Richards was still using until he fell out of a palm tree, and he's still a heavy drinker (or so I've heard).

People drink all their lives though, its about how you do it really, at least to my experience. 

[EvanG]

For sure, and in the case of Frusciante and Kiedis, they were very different junkies. Kiedis would hide it from his friends and family and he'd go on a drug binge for weeks or months at a time, but then he'd clean up when he had band commitments without using anything, but then he'd fall off the wagon again and he would constantly go back and forth like that for years. While Frusciante made a conscious decision to become a junkie and he was committed to that for a lot of years. Kiedis has been, or so he says, sober and clean since 2000 and he's the kind of person who can't even smoke a joint anymore or have a beer. While Frusciante still smokes and drinks, but he just isn't doing the hard stuff anymore. Or at least I hope he's not, he's been a bit off the radar since he left the Peppers for the second time.

Edited July 29, 2019 by EvanG

[Len Cnut]