Why Axl wins, already.

[twistedthoughts]

GNR circa 87-93 will stand the test of time.

Anything else is just fluff.

[TeeJay410]

dustindmnd2, imo you post is so wrongs i wunt to cry, stp isnt great but nowhere near as bad as pearl jam, the gnr songs were collaborative efforts, as in axl wrote the lyrics and slash makes the music, November Rain and estranged was all axl, that right there is enough to prove axl can write. These new songs kick ass and the only song that could be close to elton john is catcher in the rye. It sounds like you expect AFD 2 you are gunna be dissappointed.

actually it wasn't axl did the lyrics and slash did music. izzy wrote more songs for gnr than slash did. izzy wrote tons of gnrs lyrics and music (you could be mind, patience, double talkin jive, mr brownstone, out ta get me, etc). i think he wrote just as much, if not more, than axl did. also duff wrote some (its so easy, cowrote paradise city, etc).

get the facts straight, kiddo.

i was goin on how the media views it, but either way you cant deny axls a great writer

[Wildrose]

Agreed.

[jamie_tnt]

Personally i dont feel that estranged is the best piece of songwriting axl has ever produced, its very long drawn out and in the end really goes no where, its only saved by the guitar playing, i think after axl struck gold with november rain he thought he was the ballad master and ever since he's been trying to replicate the November Rain type ballad (a song this good comes along very rarely). 15 years on were stuck with a couple of demo's which break no new ground, suffer from the same traits as estranged, and at the end of the day weren't worth the wait. On the other hand VR have released an album (not the best) and have put in alot of hard work and i can see more to come in the future. I feel that for Guns n Roses to exist in the current climate of music, Axl needs slash and duffs work ethic and musicianship while slash and duff need axl's melody and showmanship.

This post is not meant to be a slash v axl post, its just my opinion that they are at there best when they work together, and id rather that than both Axl rose's project and VR.

P.S When comparing the songwriting ability of axl and weiland (GnR greatest hits to STP's) its not to accurate to include songs that axl didnt write e.g Patience.

[KBear]

Cornell sings better than everyone.

I just can't see Axl writing something like Limo Wreck.

Well those things are pretty subjective. Cornell's voice is nothing special to me, not bad but nothing great. I don't know how good of a lyricist he is. What I do know is that his music doesn't impress me much.

Axl's a fabulous singer, a phenomenal lyricist, and musically he writes beautiful and haunting melodies. He's got it all. Again, that's just my opinion.

[Sjakalen]

And my God, what did S.W. say about Axl's songwriting? I could care less what he says about his hair, looks real enough to me, but his writing? I suppose those words are my inspiration for the following, thanks for tolerating me in my rant.

I was once worried too. It's all hearsay as to who write what in GnR after the fact. How much Axl needed Slash? How much actual hook and MELODY were inspired by Slash? Scary thought. I heard OMG too, I was worried.

Boy do I feel better! The more you listen to these tracks, the more beautifully blue and sparkling clear the sky of doubt becomes. The man is a great builder of songs, he's great at it, nobody in his genre today comes close. Writer writes a basically simple chord structure, thinks of melody to go with structure, sounds nice. Axl? He comes up with intertwining melodies that are all over the place in perfect harmony, and creates a thought provoking, mental image evoking, anthem out of nothing.

When he really feels something, and lets the melodic genius rip out of him, and gives to the full vision of the song, it's simply spectacular. I will site for my two example of this 3:00 on in TWAT, and 3:56 on in CITR. This, though, is the mark of a great song. The writer will not give it all up in the first chorus or verse, the chords are the same, but it has not opened up yet. Think of Freddie and Brian May, The Doors, Robert and Jimmy, The Beatles, how they were subdued at the start of their great songs in the same manner. They intentionally bring it up and down, derail it ...almost, to the final blow out at the end. The hitch is having a great melody coming out of you that grabs people in the heart and gut, Axl's specialty, otherwise it's journey to nowhere that nobody cares to go on.

Nobody writes this way anymore, Axl's one of the last great one who did, and his writing now is superb and far advanced from where it was. There were clear signs of this in UYI, it's grown since then quite a bit though.

It's also the mark of a great song that they grow on you more and more, maybe them more getting into you than you into them, such as CITR and TWAT. It's easy to hear the hard rockin hook of Better and IRS and say "these are the hits", and because of that initial appeal, they probably are. I see much more in TWAT, CITR, and The Blues though. Here I see Axl really creating something special.

This is why you can't even get too upset at remarks inferior writers make, good songs in the STP catalog, as in Chris Cornell's and Layne Staley's, sure, good stuff in there. Nothing that special though. Not in the big picture that was and is Rock and Roll. Axl's music will be listened to in 50 years, and beyond. Here, I'll pose the question this way. Look at the 2 lists below off both bands "Greatest Hits" albums. Which do you think will still be listened to and played on radio in 20, 30, 50 years? And just make it really fair, I'll only post some of GnR's album against all Of STP's

A:

Vasoline

Down

Wicked Garden

Big Empty

Plush

Big Bang Baby

Creeep

Lady Picture Show

Trippin On A Hole In A Paper Heart

Interstate Love Song

All In The Suit That You Wear

Sex Type Thing

Days Of The Week

Sour Girl

Plush (Acoustic Version)

Long Way Home (Live) (Bonus Track)

B

Welcome To The Jungle

Sweet Child O' Mine

Patience

Paradise City

Civil War

Don't Cry (Original)

November Rain

Case rested, rant over, thank you again for listening.

Peace, Jim

Patience was mainly written by West Arkeen...STP i hadn heard about them before SW(cooxksucker king) became frontman i VR. and i cant say iv ever heard one song of them, and i dnt want to after seeing SW in slither video! man he is discusting1

[Dead Flower]

STP i hadn heard about them before SW(cooxksucker king) became frontman i VR. and i cant say iv ever heard one song of them

Surprise, surprise.

Ignorant prick.

[supersillyspacemonkey]

Personally i dont feel that estranged is the best piece of songwriting axl has ever produced, its very long drawn out and in the end really goes no where, its only saved by the guitar playing, i think after axl struck gold with november rain he thought he was the ballad master and ever since he's been trying to replicate the November Rain type ballad (a song this good comes along very rarely). 15 years on were stuck with a couple of demo's which break no new ground, suffer from the same traits as estranged, and at the end of the day weren't worth the wait. On the other hand VR have released an album (not the best) and have put in alot of hard work and i can see more to come in the future. I feel that for Guns n Roses to exist in the current climate of music, Axl needs slash and duffs work ethic and musicianship while slash and duff need axl's melody and showmanship.

This post is not meant to be a slash v axl post, its just my opinion that they are at there best when they work together, and id rather that than both Axl rose's project and VR.

P.S When comparing the songwriting ability of axl and weiland (GnR greatest hits to STP's) its not to accurate to include songs that axl didnt write e.g Patience.

so.... basically what youre implying is that axls gonna write awesome music as long as he can but without slash and co. were only gonna get out about 2 more cds till he dies but he needs slash n co. if were gonna see albums any more frequently.

just clearin myself up

[supersillyspacemonkey]

STP i hadn heard about them before SW(cooxksucker king) became frontman i VR. and i cant say iv ever heard one song of them

Surprise, surprise.

Ignorant prick.

shut up.

i never heard of them either before VR.

youre just being an asshole.

stop it.

[Axls_Disillusion]

STP i hadn heard about them before SW(cooxksucker king) became frontman i VR. and i cant say iv ever heard one song of them

Surprise, surprise.

Ignorant prick.

you do realize you are on a Guns N' Roses forum right? Many of the fans are not going to take kindly to Scott Weiland after he ran his yap. Get used to it.

[Turn_It_Up]

AD, you're missing the point. This guy hadn't even heard of SW or STP.

So, back to DF's original points...

[lllll]

STP was a band with the same riffs and chordprogressions over and over again. The lyrics were on repeat too.

Mentioning STP in one sentence as GnR is ignorant and funny at the same time

[moreblack]

you've never even heard them then...

[lllll]

you've never even heard them then...

Actually I had 2 of their first albums and have been to 3 festivals where they happened to be playing....saw 2 of them and thouht "is this it?.....yaaaawwwwnnnnn", the 3rd festival I skipped them, so did many others because they were playing for about 1000 die-hard fanatics, while the rest of the 90,000 were checking out some unknown band.

Now your turn :xmasschef2:

[moreblack]

doesn't sound like you were listening.

[F*ck Fear]

To me, Stone Temple Pilots only have a few memorable tunes. But other than that,I find no use for them. I do dig being able to hear a few live when I see VR live though. As I like to hear Brownstone and the others.

But comparing the two is like comparing apples to raisins. Some like raisins but for the most part,apples are better.

[Axls_Disillusion]

I wont knock STP. They put out better songs than VR has thats for sure. They were a pretty good band for that scene. Core, Purple, both very solid albums, No 4 rocked too.

can't compare them to GNR tho, then again you can't really compare VR to STP

[lllll]

doesn't sound like you were listening.

Congrats, that was the lamest reply in internet history :xmasschef2:

Someone once said I wasn't really listening to Mariah Carey, so that is why I didn't like her music....you sounded just like her :xmasssanta:

[moreblack]

doesn't sound like you were listening.

Congrats, that was the lamest reply in internet history :xmasschef2:

tough shit, that's all you deserve.

[Jackamo!]

Nice rant.

[Turn_It_Up]

doesn't sound like you were listening.

Congrats, that was the lamest reply in internet history :xmasschef2:

tough shit, that's all you deserve.

And the latest maybe one of the best replies.

[Rick]

Dead horse thread, but as far as I can tell, STP has more old songs in radio rotation than GNR.

STP made no impact on the UK really. I can't remember the last time i heard any STP stuff in a club, on the radio or on tv.

R.

[moreblack]

Dead horse thread, but as far as I can tell, STP has more old songs in radio rotation than GNR.

STP made no impact on the UK really. I can't remember the last time i heard any STP stuff in a club, on the radio or on tv.

R.

did the UK get swept into the 90s grunge thing as a whole?

[Kobbeltvedt]

Never heard of STP, Scott or Bucket' before coming to this forum - Fact.

Edit - Bucket before Leeds 2002.

UK SUBS.

dont think many of us had.

[Turn_It_Up]

Never heard of STP, Scott or Bucket' before coming to this forum - Fact.

Edit - Bucket before Leeds 2002.

UK SUBS.

Wow, that's really surprising given they were one of the biggest bands of the 90's in the U.S. Woulda figured at least some of that success would've translated overseas.

How big were P'Jam?

Edited March 22, 2006 by Turn_It_Up