Was Buckethead marginalized by his GN'R 'bandmates' to the point of leaving?

[Guest NGOG]

It seems like Axl had a very personal affection for the person and musicianship of Buckethead. You couldn't imagine Axl going the lengths he did for anybody else past or present to ensure their involvement i.e literally bringing Buckethead to Disneyland and allowing the incorporation of a chicken coup into his chosen studio for Chinese Democracy. I think Bucket is best described as the Slash candidate of the New Guns N' Roses era and perhaps there was a lot of resentment and ill-feeling towards Buckethead within the band? Essentially Bucket and Brain were a band within a band and possibly not accepted by the established click? Dizzy/Finck/Tommy/Chris

This is Tommy's response to what an interviewer described as 'changes to the band' in 2004:

Tommy: No, no... Buckethead going away is the best thing that could've happened to the band. It's gonna be great.

I won't get too far into that, because I don't really like slamming people or getting into people's personalities or anything like that. It's a really good thing.

Frankly it was absolute nonsense to suggest the loss of Bucket would be beneficial to the project. And also, you can clearly Tommy would love nothing more than to rip into Bucket's character but refrains. Edited April 4, 2013 by NGOG

[magisme]

GNR is my favorite band of all time, but Buckethead outclasses all the members GNR has ever had put together, in more ways than one.

[CharlieSheen]

It's a shame Buckethead left, like you said Axl went to extraodrinary lengths to make sure Buckethead was happy in the band

(Bringing him to Disneyland & building a chicken coop in the studio).... It probably hit Axl hard when Buckethead decided to leave

Edited April 4, 2013 by CharlieSheen

[Guest NGOG]

GNR is my favorite band of all time, but Buckethead outclasses all the members GNR has ever had put together, in more ways than one.

Nowhere in my OP do I attempt to initate a discussion on 'class'. Do you think there were bands within a band and the original majority sort of bullied the fairly new minority?

[Cosmo]

I did not know Tommy ever said that. Shit... that is fucked up. I love Buckethead and I'm not completely sure wether I'd want him to be in GnR or not, considering his much more productive OUT of the band but really... Tommy said that? Fucking backstabber...

[Guest NGOG]

I did not know Tommy ever said that. Shit... that is fucked up. I love Buckethead and I'm not completely sure wether I'd want him to be in GnR or not, considering his much more productive OUT of the band but really... Tommy said that? Fucking backstabber...

I know right? In an interview with Jarmo!

[jman2000]

It's a shame Buckethead left, like you said Axl went to extraodrinary lengths to make sure Buckethead was happy in the band

(Bringing him to Disneyland & building a chicken coop in the studio).... It probably hit Axl hard when Buckethead decided to leave

is this a cupcake or did Axl really build a chicken coop in the studio?

[magisme]

GNR is my favorite band of all time, but Buckethead outclasses all the members GNR has ever had put together, in more ways than one.

Nowhere in my OP do I attempt to initate a discussion on 'class'. Do you think there were bands within a band and the original majority sort of bullied the fairly new minority?

Miscommunication perhaps. I wasn't implying that you were talking about class. I was just thinking about your quote from Tommy and Axl's scorned teenage girl letter about how unreliable Bucket was (for real? from Axl?), even going to the point of calling out his "lifestyle" and his relationships with close friends. I think it's a real shame that Bucket left. I think he was the key to guns becoming a viable band again. At the same time, I think he's too good to be dragged into the muck with this band. That's where my "class" comment was coming from.

[saber_]

Bucket left because he wanted to release music and rebuild GnR. He correctly identified it was a frivolous endeavor.

And there's the possibility that Bucket just used GnR to further his own career, regardless of the outcome.

[bacardimayne]

Buckethead was never as important to the band as some might have you believe.

He came in after most of the songs had already been written. His songwriting contributions are nothing more than him having brought in one or two songs (Shackler's, Scraped) and letting Axl do his thing with them. To me it seems like Bucket's tenure in the band consisted of a few weeks of soloing over already finished songs and doing a tour. Naturally, given his talent, the solos he laid down are great for the most part, but he had hardly any involvement in the creation of the album and the composition of the songs. He was nothing more than a session musician in GNR.

Edited April 4, 2013 by bacardimayne

[LoadedNightraiN]

How is Tommy being a backstabber? If that's how he feels, so be it... Why trash him for being honest? He could have unloaded, but stayed classy

He has his reasons for thinking that way, from first hand experience, none of us can question that...

In an interview before bucket left he was asked something like, 'why does buckethead wear the bucket'? He responded 'well someone has to haha'... He took the high road, as I'm sure he respects Bucket as a player, but knew he wasn't a fit for the band

[Forsaken]

IMO Tommy can say whatever he wants, he's been with Axl since the rebirth.

[magisme]

Buckethead was never as important to the band as some might have you believe.

He came in after most of the songs had already been written. His songwriting contributions are nothing more than him having brought in one or two songs (Shackler's, Scraped) and letting Axl do his thing with them. To me it seems like Bucket's tenure in the band consisted of a few weeks of soloing over already finished songs and doing a tour. Naturally, given his talent, the solos he laid down are great for the most part, but he had hardly any involvement in the creation of the album and the composition of the songs. He was nothing more than a session musician in GNR.

I agree that he wasn't integral to most of CD. Then again, CD didn't exactly catapult Guns to great heights. It's complete speculation of course, but I think the best chance Guns had to be a major player in music again was to feature Bucket as the second creative force behind Axl. That would have required writing and releasing music like a normal band.

[chevelle]

I think the big part of Bucket leaving was simply not putting out music. This is a guy who puts out at least one album every year, sometimes several, and GN'R hadn't yet finished one since he joined.

[CharlieSheen]

It's a shame Buckethead left, like you said Axl went to extraodrinary lengths to make sure Buckethead was happy in the band

(Bringing him to Disneyland & building a chicken coop in the studio).... It probably hit Axl hard when Buckethead decided to leave

is this a cupcake or did Axl really build a chicken coop in the studio?

Nope it's true, Tom Zutaut said it in 2001. 'What if we build a chicken coop in the studio for you to record your guitar-parts , from Chinese Whispers

Edited April 4, 2013 by CharlieSheen

[Guest NGOG]

Buckethead was never as important to the band as some might have you believe.

Absolute nonsense. Buckethead's solos enhanced the record immeasurably. Much like Appetite wouldn't have been anything without Slash. Take TWAT for example, genuinely one of GN'R's greatest ever songs, and why? Primarily the guitars of Bucket.

And yes the record we have was essentially completed pre-Bucket, but you're forgetting the fact a second and possibly third album were put down much later on in the process. Tom Zutaut said himself, Bucket was recognized by everybody in the camp as NEW GN'R's Slash guy.

The fact is everything was incredibly ordinary about the 2002 live shows except the tandem of Bucket and Brain.

[Cosmo]

Buckethead was never as important to the band as some might have you believe.

He came in after most of the songs had already been written. His songwriting contributions are nothing more than him having brought in one or two songs (Shackler's, Scraped) and letting Axl do his thing with them. To me it seems like Bucket's tenure in the band consisted of a few weeks of soloing over already finished songs and doing a tour. Naturally, given his talent, the solos he laid down are great for the most part, but he had hardly any involvement in the creation of the album and the composition of the songs. He was nothing more than a session musician in GNR.

He was probably less important than Paul but more than Robin.

[jman2000]

It's a shame Buckethead left, like you said Axl went to extraodrinary lengths to make sure Buckethead was happy in the band

(Bringing him to Disneyland & building a chicken coop in the studio).... It probably hit Axl hard when Buckethead decided to leave

is this a cupcake or did Axl really build a chicken coop in the studio?

Nope it's true, Tom Zutaut said it in 2001. 'What if we build a chicken coop in the studio for you to record your guitar-parts , from Chinese Whispers

Wow, I wonder if it was actually built. What is up with Bucketheads obsession with chicken stuff?

[Guest NGOG]

He could have unloaded, but stayed classy

He clearly insinuated issues with Bucket's personality, it's hardly staying classy by just not going into the detail of a problem you have already declared openly for all to consider and be affected by.

[bacardimayne]

Buckethead was never as important to the band as some might have you believe.

He came in after most of the songs had already been written. His songwriting contributions are nothing more than him having brought in one or two songs (Shackler's, Scraped) and letting Axl do his thing with them. To me it seems like Bucket's tenure in the band consisted of a few weeks of soloing over already finished songs and doing a tour. Naturally, given his talent, the solos he laid down are great for the most part, but he had hardly any involvement in the creation of the album and the composition of the songs. He was nothing more than a session musician in GNR.

He was probably less important than Paul but more than Robin.

Robin was around in the composition stages and has songwriting credits (ASCAP) on about 8 songs, not to mention he actually plays on every song while Bucket is absent on a couple.

[Guest NGOG]

IMO Tommy can say whatever he wants, he's been with Axl since the rebirth.

You might define the rebirth as the initial gatherings of NEW GN'R, I personally consider it to be Rock in Rio 2001 where Axl, Buckethead and Brain blew everybody away.

[Cosmo]

Buckethead was never as important to the band as some might have you believe.

He came in after most of the songs had already been written. His songwriting contributions are nothing more than him having brought in one or two songs (Shackler's, Scraped) and letting Axl do his thing with them. To me it seems like Bucket's tenure in the band consisted of a few weeks of soloing over already finished songs and doing a tour. Naturally, given his talent, the solos he laid down are great for the most part, but he had hardly any involvement in the creation of the album and the composition of the songs. He was nothing more than a session musician in GNR.

He was probably less important than Paul but more than Robin.

Robin was around in the composition stages and has songwriting credits (ASCAP) on about 8 songs, not to mention he actually plays on every song while Bucket is absent on a couple.

Is there a place where we can see these songwriting credits? I've always wondered about this.

[rocknroll41]

I just lost all respect for Stinson

[axlrosefan1]

Buckethead was never as important to the band as some might have you believe.

He came in after most of the songs had already been written. His songwriting contributions are nothing more than him having brought in one or two songs (Shackler's, Scraped) and letting Axl do his thing with them. To me it seems like Bucket's tenure in the band consisted of a few weeks of soloing over already finished songs and doing a tour. Naturally, given his talent, the solos he laid down are great for the most part, but he had hardly any involvement in the creation of the album and the composition of the songs. He was nothing more than a session musician in GNR.

He was probably less important than Paul but more than Robin.

Robin was around in the composition stages and has songwriting credits (ASCAP) on about 8 songs, not to mention he actually plays on every song while Bucket is absent on a couple.

Is there a place where we can see these songwriting credits? I've always wondered about this.

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?pid=144537

IIRC the credits in the CD booklet are are mostly from Paul's memory. ASCAP credits are very different.

[Cosmo]

Buckethead was never as important to the band as some might have you believe.

He came in after most of the songs had already been written. His songwriting contributions are nothing more than him having brought in one or two songs (Shackler's, Scraped) and letting Axl do his thing with them. To me it seems like Bucket's tenure in the band consisted of a few weeks of soloing over already finished songs and doing a tour. Naturally, given his talent, the solos he laid down are great for the most part, but he had hardly any involvement in the creation of the album and the composition of the songs. He was nothing more than a session musician in GNR.

He was probably less important than Paul but more than Robin.

Robin was around in the composition stages and has songwriting credits (ASCAP) on about 8 songs, not to mention he actually plays on every song while Bucket is absent on a couple.

Is there a place where we can see these songwriting credits? I've always wondered about this.

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?pid=144537

IIRC the credits in the CD booklet are are mostly from Paul's memory. ASCAP credits are very different.

Thanks