The James Bond Thread: RIP Robbie Coltrane

[DieselDaisy]

In brief, Thunderball was originally a 1959 screenplay collaboration, called Longitude 78 West, penned by Fleming and five other people for a possible Bond film – this was before Eon had arrived on the scene. The most important of these people was Irish filmmaker Kevin McClory. Fleming, somewhat disillusioned with the process, returned to Jamaica and proceeded, unknown to the other five, to adapt this screenplay as a ninth James Bond novel (1961) called Thunderball; Fleming incorporating elements which were, deemed, not his (the underwater sequence for instance). It went to court, effected Fleming’s health, and was finally settled out of court: McClory would retain the screenplay rights, Fleming the novel rights (with an amended writing credit acknowledging the contributions).

By now of course the Eon official films were underway and Thunderball was one of the novels Broccoli most wanted to film. A separate deal was wrapped up which allowed Thunderball to be filmed by Eon, McClory receiving a production credit, provided that McClory didn't film another version of Thunderball for 'ten years.' Thunderball was released in 1965 so this proviso lapsed in 1975. McClory could now film Thunderball to his heart's content and 1983's Never Say Never Again is a result. As late as the 90s, McClory was trying to film another version, with Dalton, titled 'Warhead'!

For more information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderball_(novel)#Controversy

[Ryan95]

So in a quiz and the question was who played bond the most? Would the answer be moore as connery's 7th appearance was unofficial or would it be a tie?

[DieselDaisy]

Unless the question specifically stated ''in the official/Eon productions'' Connery and Moore would be tied at 7 a-piece.

Incidentally the other oddity in regards to rights is Bond's debut, Casino Royale (1953). Fleming had already sold the rights to the novel when the Broccoli bought-up the rest of the books in the early 60s. The rights went through numerous hands – there was the 1967 spoof starring David Niven and Ursula Andress– before Sony swapped them with MGM (who now owned the official Bond franchise) for Spiderman in 1999. This meant the film, which would turn out to be released in 2006 with Craig, could now be made.

So you had this odd scenario that, until 1999, Eon couldn’t film the first – and still considered one of the greatest – Bond novels

[Georgy Zhukov]

Didn't they originally intend Brosnan to star in Casino Royale?

[DieselDaisy]

There were discussions which broke down. Brosnan was actually happy to do a fifth Bond but Eon, rather ruthlessly, dropped him when it was clear they wanted to run with Casino Royale and reboot the series with a fresh direction. You couldn't have actually had Brosnan in the film which was eventually made, the way it charts 'the rise of Bond' (think the opening sequence when Bond obtains his 00 status).

I actually think Brosnan was a decent Bond but the scripts were simply not there for his films (except Goldeneye which is superb). Tommorow Never Dies, Die Another Day - these films became too fx driven.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Tomorrow Never Dies wasn't that terrible. The opening sequence always bothered me. Bond's mission being overseen at MI6 HQ, Bond flying a jet and blowing shit up. I know Bond is known for stopping madmen with extravagant lairs and their diabolical plots but those tend to be the worse Bond films. The best ones were made simpler. Stop the Russians from obtaining coding device for Nuclear missiles, stopping Blofeld from using chemical warfare, preventing a terrorist banker from winning a high stakes poker game so he will have no choice but to seek shelter from MI6.

I wonder if they dropped the Quantum storyline?

[James Bond]

There were discussions which broke down. Brosnan was actually happy to do a fifth Bond but Eon, rather ruthlessly, dropped him when it was clear they wanted to run with Casino Royale and reboot the series with a fresh direction. You couldn't have actually had Brosnan in the film which was eventually made, the way it charts 'the rise of Bond' (think the opening sequence when Bond obtains his 00 status).

I actually think Brosnan was a decent Bond but the scripts were simply not there for his films (except Goldeneye which is superb). Tommorow Never Dies, Die Another Day - these films became too fx driven.

I've never seen them dropping Brosnan as being "ruthless" in any way. A lot of Brosnan fans (especially around the time Craig was cast with that "CraigNotBond" crap) were all over how unfair it was to him. It wasn't though - his contract was up. Sure, Brosnan was interested in another film and he wasn't unsuccessful in the role but Michael G. Wilson had been itching for years to do an origin story and that was never going to happen with Pierce. Gaining the rights to Casino Royale in 1999 opened up the possibility, and so they fulfilled Brosnan's contract before opting to go with a younger actor.

Brosnan didn't do himself any favors in the press either. He'd always say he'd definitely be coming back and he'd like to do six films and so on while nothing was ever confirmed by EON. He even said that he considered himself "fired" which again wasn't true. Of course, it seemed that way but it wasn't the case.

I wonder if they dropped the Quantum storyline?

There won't be any ties to Quantum in Skyfall, but they could always use Quantum again in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't return though. I think they were trying to make a modern SPECTRE but Bond found his peace at the end of Quantum of Solace so I don't see why they need to bring it back.

Early reviews for Skyfall have been exceptionally positive but I've been trying to stay away from reading them. I've been trying to stay as spoiler free as possible.

[DieselDaisy]

Quantum, the whole plot line of Quantum of Solace didn't make any sense. It worked brilliantly at the end of Casino Royale of course with merely this shadowy - then unnamed - organisation (Mr White) behind the whole Vesper plotline but its development in the sequel was handled poorly. Full of unexplainables, uninteresting bad guys and plot holes. Casino Royale's ending set up something intriguing and potentially epic and in the end we were delivered a storyline involving a bad guy as un-menacing as Dominic Green and a politically correct storyline involving droughts in South America! A terrible anticlimax.

I hope Skyfall possesses more of the character of Royale than the thoroughly disappointing Solace. The only thing I liked about Solace was the opening carchase and the opera scene.

[Zint]

I like all the Bond movies.

[DieselDaisy]

Even Die Another Day?

[Roush]

I decided to rank the James Bond in fighting skills.

1. George Lazenby- His performance may have been wooden but he kicked ass in his one night only as 007. The reason would be that he was a fight instructor for the British SAS. He was so good that Bruce Lee wanted to work with him, but he died before they made a movie. He was also the most convincing at handling weapons.

Lazenby was an Australian ponce. Of course he fought better.

[James Bond]

Quantum, the whole plot line of Quantum of Solace didn't make any sense. It worked brilliantly at the end of Casino Royale of course with merely this shadowy - then unnamed - organisation (Mr White) behind the whole Vesper plotline but its development in the sequel was handled poorly. Full of unexplainables, uninteresting bad guys and plot holes. Casino Royale's ending set up something intriguing and potentially epic and in the end we were delivered a storyline involving a bad guy as un-menacing as Dominic Green and a politically correct storyline involving droughts in South America! A terrible anticlimax.

I hope Skyfall possesses more of the character of Royale than the thoroughly disappointing Solace. The only thing I liked about Solace was the opening carchase and the opera scene.

I agree. Quantum of Solace might have worked better as a revenge story if they just kept Mr. White as a villain and went from there. Dominic Greene was a lame disappointment. I don't think Quantum's length helped either. Not a whole lot of development time in 100 minutes, especially when much of that is taken up by action. Skyfall is about the same length as Casino Royale and the early reviews are calling it way better than Quantum and a contender for best Bond of all, so I think everything will be handled much better this time. Great cast and no writer's strike.

I like all the Bond movies.

Me too. There's ones I like better than others, but I do like them all. Even though I consider Die Another Day to be the worst Bond movie, I can still put it on and enjoy it for what it is.

[Zint]

I even have the 60's spoof Casino Royale on blu!

[PappyTron]

I love these two:

The look on Mr. Wint's face when he is done in by Bond is priceless.

[James Bond]

I even have the 60's spoof Casino Royale on blu!

I haven't gone quite that far.

I've held on to my original DVD release of it because it has the 1954 television Casino Royale as a bonus feature which, to my knowledge, is the only readily available copy on DVD. The end is cut though, because part of the master film was damaged. However, the Spyguise VHS version took the ending from another source. A drop in quality when that scene hits, but the whole scene is intact. That particular VHS is the only full version available. One VHS I definitely won't get rid of.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Quantum of Solace is why there can never be a direct sequel to a Bond film. How they handled OHMSS's ending in the opening for For Your Eyes Only was beyond brilliant. IMO it is by far Roger Moore's best film.

[James Bond]

Quantum could have worked. The problem is they threw out the better story in the first ten minutes of the film. As soon as Bond says "You don't have to worry about me. I'm not going to chase him." or whatever he says, away goes the notion of having a much anticipated "Bond out for revenge" sequel, especially after the events of Casino Royale. They should have kept Mr. White as the main villain and actually had Bond being driven by revenge and going after him and Vesper's boyfriend. He was still learning and "becoming Bond" in Quantum of Solace anyways so I think that would have been the way to handle it.

Its biggest problem as a sequel is that it feels nothing like Casino Royale. I really wish Martin Campbell had accepted the offer to return to direct, as that would at least add some coherence. Campbell directing, no writer's strike, and no lame Dominic Greene water plot and we might have had something worthwhile.

[dalsh327]

[Crazyman]

Its biggest problem as a sequel is that it feels nothing like Casino Royale. I really wish Martin Campbell had accepted the offer to return to direct, as that would at least add some coherence. Campbell directing, no writer's strike, and no lame Dominic Greene water plot and we might have had something worthwhile.

Exactly. This is the reason why QOS didn't work. If Martin Campbell and the team that worked on Casino came back, I would bet the sequel concept would work.

The editing in QOS was terrible, IMO. The Opera scene was amazing, but the fast paced editing almost ruined that, too.

[DieselDaisy]

I agree with everything you say. The start is actually quite good with the defecting agent (memories of Sean Bean) and White saying that great line, ''you do not know anything about us'' (quoting from memory). You think at this stage that this will be good, a true sequel to Casino Royale. And then you end up with Green and a water plot line! What? Is this why Vesper was killed and Le Chiffre etc: the most un-menacing Bond villain in the history of the series (Elliot Carver excepted perhaps) with a really stupid plot. There are so many things which are underdeveloped. The Camille-Mendrano rape story. It is introduced. It is obviously a serious plot point but I do not think it is adequately realised as a concept. Her whole character seemed to, lack something.

[Bumble's Bridge Pickup]

Just came from the theatre. Would rate it 4/5 or so.

Comparing the Craig films, I really liked Casino Royale, it felt fresh and awesome. Unfortunately Quantum of Solace is a bit too much like a generic modern action movie. But Skyfall is even greater than Casino Royale and everything QoS should've been. The villain feels like a proper villain again, the new Q is great, the action is in very good balance with the drama, and there's some old school witty humor in there too. Fantastic way to celebrate 50 years of Bond.

[James Bond]

Damn you! I still have to wait two weeks. I'm going to have to stay out of my own thread. Glad to hear it's awesome though! Seems all the early reviews are filled with praise.

[Bumble's Bridge Pickup]

Lemme tell you, it's worth that wait and all the praise is not in vain... the future of the franchise looks brilliant! I also did something awesome with a can of Monster Energy during the film... consumed it during one of the fight scenes, and the buzz it gave me fit the scene perfectly.

[James Bond]

I'll keep that in mind.

I was checking out the CBn site and they've got an article posted where Michael Wilson discusses the future of MI6 following the events in this film. I'm not reading it for the Skyfall spoilers, but just the knowing the bits and pieces has me all excited. Bring on November 9th!

[Roush]

Just came from the theatre. Would rate it 4/5 or so.

Comparing the Craig films, I really liked Casino Royale, it felt fresh and awesome. Unfortunately Quantum of Solace is a bit too much like a generic modern action movie. But Skyfall is even greater than Casino Royale and everything QoS should've been. The villain feels like a proper villain again, the new Q is great, the action is in very good balance with the drama, and there's some old school witty humor in there too. Fantastic way to celebrate 50 years of Bond.

Awesome! I've gotta see it.