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GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

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3 hours ago, killuridols said:

Sharon Tanemura Maynard, born in Western Canada, brought a unique international flavor to Arcos Cielos and its innovative programs. Through her Japanese cultural background, she was skilled at bridging Eastern and Western Viewpoints, and integrating them into programs for new ways of thinking and effective action. Her educational background includes an ARCT Degree from Toronto’s Royal Conservatory of Music. and studies in Communications at Simon Frasier University in Vancouver. She also earned a Bachelor of Arts in Communications from the University the Trees Consciousness Research Institute. Her unique gifts in the areas of Financial and Creative Structuring were passed on to her from her grandfather, who was a Buddhist Priest. Sharon’s special abilities were a key factor in many of the breakthroughs incorporated into the Transformative Programs developed at Arcos Cielos Research Center.

Ahahaha Magic Tree University strikes again! :rofl-lol:

What a bunch of bullshit. Nothing but made-up crap wrapped in fancy language to impress the dumb and gullible.

 

40 minutes ago, killuridols said:

That's what I want to know.... I couldn't find one single paper where the theory is developed and how it would be applied and where? lol

Bunch of crap that doesn't explain how he's gonna do all of that :facepalm:

Most of what he's written is a poor attempt for state of the art, no references to the current paradigms, researches and authors. In one of his blog entries, Elliot writes lenghty about nothing and cites only two authors :lol:, one of them is Alvin Toffler.

None of this information matches what we know Axl was doing with Yoda, so I don't know if this is a smokescreen or what...

Been wondering about this too. The only connection between this rambling mess and Axl is the mention of "Living Art" sculptures (or something like that) because the airport incident crystal ball sculpture was one of these living art sculptures he makes.

 

19 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

It reminds me of how Axl writes his letters. The same rambling nonsense with hardly any point at all. 

10 minutes ago, killuridols said:

:lol:

Must be the results of the Educational Methods the Arcos Cielos Inc. inflicted on him.

I just bet it is. Axl used to write pretty normal letters back in the 80s and 90s. A bit random, kinda funny, sometimes surprisingly sweet and emotional, but all in all pretty normal.

A lot of his more recent writing is just like the Arcos Cielos crap: Full of unnecessarily complex sentences and big words, like someone trying too hard to appear intelligent.

The first example of this was his explanation of Oh My God and then the trend continued from there.

 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Frey said:

Been wondering about this too. The only connection between this rambling mess and Axl is the mention of "Living Art" sculptures (or something like that) because the airport incident crystal ball sculpture was one of these living art sculptures he makes.

The sculptures are actually not that bad, looool :lol: but none looks like a plain crystal ball.

9803378_orig.jpg

Here are more pictures of them http://www.arcoscielos.com/future-science-artwork.html

44 minutes ago, Frey said:

A lot of his more recent writing is just like the Arcos Cielos crap: Full of unnecessarily complex sentences and big words, like someone trying too hard to appear intelligent.

The first example of this was his explanation of Oh My God and then the trend continued from there.

Yes, that's how those pretentious people are. They need to cover their lack of substance with layers of BS.

All this shit and the "new paradigm for education" made me compared what Maynard writes with the simplicity and greatness of brazilian educator Paulo Freire. His book "Education as practice for freedom" is written in such a clear way that you can read it in a day or two and understand his theory inmediately.

While I was reading this BS I had to skip 10 paragraphs so to find one thing that kinda makes sense but one line later it goes back to the rambling nonsense.

Also the capitalization of terms is ridiculous. He Writes Like The Gothic Kids Used To Do It In The BegIninG oF The 2000's :facepalm:

It'd be nice to recall Axl's explanation of OH MY GOD and "translate" it to non-pretentious language :lol:

 

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1 hour ago, killuridols said:

Yes, that's how those pretentious people are. They need to cover their lack of substance with layers of BS.

That's a very mean thing to say about Axl and CD :P:awesomeface: Sorry, I can't read the word layers and not think about CD

Seriously, I can't believe Axl would consider Slash a liar and at the same time believe in these people, it's hilarious! :rofl-lol:

Edited by BorderlineCrazy
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2 hours ago, killuridols said:

The sculptures are actually not that bad, looool :lol: but none looks like a plain crystal ball.

9803378_orig.jpg

Here are more pictures of them http://www.arcoscielos.com/future-science-artwork.html

Yes, that's how those pretentious people are. They need to cover their lack of substance with layers of BS.

All this shit and the "new paradigm for education" made me compared what Maynard writes with the simplicity and greatness of brazilian educator Paulo Freire. His book "Education as practice for freedom" is written in such a clear way that you can read it in a day or two and understand his theory inmediately.

While I was reading this BS I had to skip 10 paragraphs so to find one thing that kinda makes sense but one line later it goes back to the rambling nonsense.

Also the capitalization of terms is ridiculous. He Writes Like The Gothic Kids Used To Do It In The BegIninG oF The 2000's :facepalm:

It'd be nice to recall Axl's explanation of OH MY GOD and "translate" it to non-pretentious language :lol:

 

I think they're fucking ugly and the shit he claims about them is ridiculous :lol:

Bolded: Okay, let me try....

Quote

"The chorus deals with the societal repression of deep and often agonizing emotions -- some of which may be willingly accepted for one reason or another -- the appropriate expression of which (one that promotes a healing, release and a positive resolve) is often discouraged and many times denied. Emotionally the song contemplates several abstract perspectives drawing from personal expression as well as from the film and its metaphors. The appropriate expression and vehicle for such emotions and concepts is not something taken for granted.

The fight of good vs. evil, positive vs. negative, man against a seemingly undefeatable, undeterrable, unrevealed destiny, along with the personal and universal struggle to attain, maintain and responsibly manage freewill can be and often is frustrating to say the least. In America our country's constitutional right to freedom of expression gives us a better chance to fight for that expression than many in other countries enjoy. It can be a big gig, like kickin' the crap outta the devil!"

"The chorus is about deep and agonizing emotions, which (for one reason or another) are not socially acceptable to express, even though expressing these emotions in appropriate ways could help a person heal or find release. Emotionally speaking, the song both draws from personal experience as well as as the film and its metaphors. Being allowed to express the emotions I just mentioned is not something I take for granted. (??)

Good vs. evil blahblahblah, I struggle with responsibly managing my own free will, blahblahblah......" I can't continue this :scared: I tried and it's still not much better :scared:

 

Maybe the simplest thing would have been to say:

"It's a song about child abuse and people prefering to look away instead of listening to the victims, because they don't want to hear about it."

(That was the thread interpretation anyway, iirc)

 

35 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

That's a very mean thing to say about Axl and CD :P:awesomeface: Sorry, I can't read the word layers and not think about CD

Seriously, I can't believe Axl would consider Slash a liar and at the same time believe in these people, it's hilarious! :rofl-lol:

Well, Slash is a liar, but Axl was just too dumb and gullible to realize that these people were much bigger liars and frauds than Slash could ever be...

 

 

 

 

Edited by Frey
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On 4/23/2017 at 10:01 PM, MillionsOfSpiders said:

 

@money honey

IMG_3725.JPG.0e5fd98f93b1a8a5b17e040ab94fb5fe.JPG

Typical Irish, getting the party going a MONTH before it really starts haha you guys are unreal!! :hug:

LOLOL! Where did you find that picture?!

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9 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

Thank you. I want to delve into how "charlatan-y" they were.. because i do believe certain (what some would consider "New Age-y")  holistic therapies do have a lot of merit, such as reiki and reflexology. I like the fact that Axl was searching, and looking for ways to heal, but perhaps he relied on it too much though..as with everything, there must be a balance. 

Totally, it's all about balance. IMHO New Age and alternative medicine are just like any other faith systems or medical care: there are good people and practices in it who really help others, and there are also predators who prey on people's emotions, vulnerabilities and longing for answers and a sense of community. That exploitation could be coming from a Christian televangelist or a New Age "shaman" and it's the same thing.

The one belief that Axl seemed to have that IMHO WAS harmful was that in the UYI era he seemed to have picked up some sort of Louise Hay-style notions about illness. For those who don't know, LH basically believes that any illness someone has is due to their own negative beliefs and what they're pulling to themselves, whether they have cancer or a cold. LH even said at one point that Holocaust victims were victims because of their own choices.

IMHO that's an incredibly harmful and dangerous belief system - it basically takes the tack that people can wish themselves well even if they have stage 4 cancer, and if they're sick it's their own fault. Hello, learn some fucking science and biochemistry, people...

And in some of the 1991-era interviews, Axl's talking about how all his infections have been due to emotional trauma, and that's classic LH:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=9

Quote


"It's mostly respiratory stuff," he continues. "Air conditioners in hotels circulate the same air, and on the plane everyone's breathing the same air. So if anyone's got anything, my tonsils grab it. I'm chronic like that. That's one of the reasons I've never liked touring. My resistance is low in my tonsils. I also found out it is supposedly some kind of mental thing having to do with me punishing myself for expressing myself. For 20 years of my life I was beaten by my parents for expressing myself, so part of me believes I should be punished for that expression. I do this by lowering my own resistance. Turn that around, and there you have it - self punishment. Other than that, I'm pretty healthy."

Edited by stella

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On 4/25/2017 at 9:38 AM, Frey said:

This is what I imagine the "Women's Thread Party" to be like. :lol:

All of you are that blond chick, and Axl will look even more terrified than he does here.

 

Ugh, no!!  

We're not all blond.  :rofl-lol:

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1 hour ago, stella said:

"It's mostly respiratory stuff," he continues. "Air conditioners in hotels circulate the same air, and on the plane everyone's breathing the same air. So if anyone's got anything, my tonsils grab it. I'm chronic like that. That's one of the reasons I've never liked touring. My resistance is low in my tonsils. I also found out it is supposedly some kind of mental thing having to do with me punishing myself for expressing myself. For 20 years of my life I was beaten by my parents for expressing myself, so part of me believes I should be punished for that expression. I do this by lowering my own resistance. Turn that around, and there you have it - self punishment. Other than that, I'm pretty healthy."

:facepalm:  See, that's what bothers me..there is so much good that can be done with alternative medicine, as long as it is complementary, and not exclusionary, and then you get people who give it a bad name like this person who told him this punishment bullshite, and that Louise person. It is well known that the tonsils are the body's first defense against infection....and a person who still has their tonsils will likely first get tonsillitis before any infection spreads to the chest etc..so if he had had his tonsils removed, and was therefore susceptible to getting chest infections instead, that person would have probably told him "it was a mental thing with me punishing myself for not expressing love properly..my parents didn't give me proper love so I don't believe I deserve it or that anyone around me should have it" blah blah blah.  Someone can easily go down the rabbit hole giving this stuff too much credence.

I hope he has found his balance!

17 minutes ago, triad said:

Ugh, no!!  

We're not all blond.  :rofl-lol:

Other than that, yep, that picture is pretty much accurate haha! :lol: :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, Frey said:

"The chorus is about deep and agonizing emotions, which (for one reason or another) are not socially acceptable to express, even though expressing these emotions in appropriate ways could help a person heal or find release. Emotionally speaking, the song both draws from personal experience as well as as the film and its metaphors. Being allowed to express the emotions I just mentioned is not something I take for granted. (??)

Good vs. evil blahblahblah, I struggle with responsibly managing my own free will, blahblahblah......" I can't continue this :scared: I tried and it's still not much better :scared:

 

Maybe the simplest thing would have been to say:

"It's a song about child abuse and people prefering to look away instead of listening to the victims, because they don't want to hear about it."

(That was the thread interpretation anyway, iirc)

Which are the emotions not socially acceptable to express? :question:

I dont understand half of what he wrote there.

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2 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

:facepalm:  See, that's what bothers me..there is so much good that can be done with alternative medicine, as long as it is complementary, and not exclusionary, and then you get people who give it a bad name like this person who told him this punishment bullshite, and that Louise person. It is well known that the tonsils are the body's first defense against infection....and a person who still has their tonsils will likely first get tonsillitis before any infection spreads to the chest etc..so if he had had his tonsils removed, and was therefore susceptible to getting chest infections instead, that person would have probably told him "it was a mental thing with me punishing myself for not expressing love properly..my parents didn't give me proper love so I don't believe I deserve it or that anyone around me should have it" blah blah blah.  Someone can easily go down the rabbit hole giving this stuff too much credence.

I hope he has found his balance!

I definitely do hope he's completely abandoned that LH style philosophy and found a balance with beliefs/practices that can be helpful and not harmful. I feel like something like the punishment/Louise Hay philosophies can endlessly loop someone in, as you said. They're blamed for whatever happens, and they become even more desperate for help and guidance to stop what they think is happening to them. If someone's already had self-destructive behavior and has low self-esteem I think it could be especially dangerous for them.

I agree, alternative medicine and beliefs can really be helpful if they're balanced and are complementing other care. A lot of cancer treatment programs have added things like aromatherapy, massage therapy and meditation as ways to help cancer patients cope with their illnesses. They're doing everything they need to do medically, like chemo or surgery, but they have some options to complement that care. If nothing else, even if it's not going to actually cure cancer, it might help the patient feel better emotionally or have better coping techniques and a better quality of life.

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Just realise tht Axl watch Slaxl video on Patience:ph34r:

200w.gif

 

*Sorryforbadgif

Edited by SerenityScorp
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On 25.4.2017 at 4:38 PM, Frey said:

This is what I imagine the "Women's Thread Party" to be like. :lol:

All of you are that blond chick, and Axl will look even more terrified than he does here.

About that. Well...

2J3EBTm.gif

Edited by Tori72
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16 hours ago, stella said:

Totally, it's all about balance. IMHO New Age and alternative medicine are just like any other faith systems or medical care: there are good people and practices in it who really help others, and there are also predators who prey on people's emotions, vulnerabilities and longing for answers and a sense of community. That exploitation could be coming from a Christian televangelist or a New Age "shaman" and it's the same thing.

The one belief that Axl seemed to have that IMHO WAS harmful was that in the UYI era he seemed to have picked up some sort of Louise Hay-style notions about illness. For those who don't know, LH basically believes that any illness someone has is due to their own negative beliefs and what they're pulling to themselves, whether they have cancer or a cold. LH even said at one point that Holocaust victims were victims because of their own choices.

IMHO that's an incredibly harmful and dangerous belief system - it basically takes the tack that people can wish themselves well even if they have stage 4 cancer, and if they're sick it's their own fault. Hello, learn some fucking science and biochemistry, people...

"It's mostly respiratory stuff," he continues. "Air conditioners in hotels circulate the same air, and on the plane everyone's breathing the same air. So if anyone's got anything, my tonsils grab it. I'm chronic like that. That's one of the reasons I've never liked touring. My resistance is low in my tonsils. I also found out it is supposedly some kind of mental thing having to do with me punishing myself for expressing myself. For 20 years of my life I was beaten by my parents for expressing myself, so part of me believes I should be punished for that expression. I do this by lowering my own resistance. Turn that around, and there you have it - self punishment. Other than that, I'm pretty healthy."

 

15 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said:

:facepalm:  See, that's what bothers me..there is so much good that can be done with alternative medicine, as long as it is complementary, and not exclusionary, and then you get people who give it a bad name like this person who told him this punishment bullshite, and that Louise person. It is well known that the tonsils are the body's first defense against infection....and a person who still has their tonsils will likely first get tonsillitis before any infection spreads to the chest etc..so if he had had his tonsils removed, and was therefore susceptible to getting chest infections instead, that person would have probably told him "it was a mental thing with me punishing myself for not expressing love properly..my parents didn't give me proper love so I don't believe I deserve it or that anyone around me should have it" blah blah blah.  Someone can easily go down the rabbit hole giving this stuff too much credence.

I hope he has found his balance!

Other than that, yep, that picture is pretty much accurate haha! :lol: :ph34r:

Chainsmoking and then blame air conditioning? mmmkay. I won`t say it`s harmless (long flights are little hell for nose and throat), but... The second is that how much is for example guitarist sensitive about fingers, every vocalist is observing one`s throat more intense than average. There was also study that lead vocalists are observing their body much more than any other musicians. Logically, their performance relies much more on their body than anyone else`s.

There might be also other thing: that mood shifts can cause body symptoms, often unspecific but annoying and exhausting and they tend to disappear when one feels tranquil and things run smooth. Depression can for example cause strong pain, strong enough for a person to want to kill oneself with no physical cause or correlate for the pain. 

Guilt is also ever-present emotion in Christianity, you are guilty of primary sin and then almost anything; and if you grew up with authorities always telling you you are guilty and sinful and you can never be good enough and stainless, it is easy to run this trait later even if you abandoned church and the faith. If you do everything "right" and authentically from your heart  and everything goes south, you question.

My impression from Slash`s book was that in later UYI era and further with Spaghetti incident, the original band was trainwreck, most members turning into barely surviving corpses out of their heads (that band which made the Hell tour) with for various reasons Axl cut from others even more; some of his fairly absurd acts seemed to me as an attempt to catch remnant threads connecting him with originals. Izzy, denoted by both Duff and Slash as the one who was able to truly communicate with Axl was gone... Yes, Axl also has had lead singer disease (with symptoms as described by Keith Richards on Mick). It must have been open wound to loose connection and that wound went bigger and more live wire when he definitely lost them. Even he hired skilled musicians, three were fighting with what one Slash did with seemingly no effort. People dug out from Lafayette past were fail. If you don`t work with best people available or people who you cannot connect with, your soul starves and it hurts.

In industry full of falsity and flattery is difficult to find grounding. Angus seems to me like balancing act for Axl. These two shine together. 

12 hours ago, stella said:

I definitely do hope he's completely abandoned that LH style philosophy and found a balance with beliefs/practices that can be helpful and not harmful. I feel like something like the punishment/Louise Hay philosophies can endlessly loop someone in, as you said. They're blamed for whatever happens, and they become even more desperate for help and guidance to stop what they think is happening to them. If someone's already had self-destructive behavior and has low self-esteem I think it could be especially dangerous for them.

I agree, alternative medicine and beliefs can really be helpful if they're balanced and are complementing other care. A lot of cancer treatment programs have added things like aromatherapy, massage therapy and meditation as ways to help cancer patients cope with their illnesses. They're doing everything they need to do medically, like chemo or surgery, but they have some options to complement that care. If nothing else, even if it's not going to actually cure cancer, it might help the patient feel better emotionally or have better coping techniques and a better quality of life.

Low self-esteem or strongly suffering are the most vulnerable interesting for predator types, in first row as a toy and if they are source of money and influence... It can be true vicious circle or, more, downward spiral.

People in untreatable stage of their disease (or if offered treatment which is unbearable for them or various other reasons) tend to believe in absurd system. People aren`t rational. Many times they are exhausted or discontent or whatever with scientific medicine, so they try these "alternatives". Or they think we are just BigPharma servants who don`t mind them or whatever drives them. It is also dangerous to implicitly believe in "evidence based medicine" without questioning or further research or relying on meds treatment without other changes. The thing is that if you are charming enough and can build up an argument, you can reason a person into quiet absurd and dangerous things. Biochemistry or not, at the end people lean to attention and human care more than cold results.

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17 hours ago, killuridols said:

Which are the emotions not socially acceptable to express? :question:

I dont understand half of what he wrote there.

I assume pain, hurt, hatred, rage, etc. about his fucked up childhood probably. Remember, Axl was (or rather still is) very upset about how people reacted to him when he opened up about his childhood and did the RS interview and so on. He didn't expect the backlash he received and probably felt very pissed off at society in general for not being more understanding. I remember him saying something like he still doesn't understand why people came down so hard on him for talking about this instead of taking a closer look at his stepfather.

Or  for a completely different interpretation - I remember reading an old thread on here discussing if OMG was about repressed homosexuality. So his secret gay feelings for [insert other dude of your choice here] or just him being gay in general would be the emotions he feels wouldn't be accepted in this case. Looking at the lyrics, I can see how you could interpret it that way. But personally, I think the WT interpretation makes more sense :lol:

 

18 hours ago, triad said:

Ugh, no!!  

We're not all blond.  :rofl-lol:

I wasn't referring to the hair color anyway :awesomeface:

What you guys have in common with her is that most of you'd also scare the hell of Axl and some of you (happy now @stella and @Tori72? :max::P) would also be all over the poor guy.

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, killuridols said:

How did people react about those confessions? :question: What people?? Media, the fans??

I dont remember anything, really... Maybe I was too little to understand certain things or did not have access to the American media, so I'm not sure what reactions he refers to. All I know is what he said in that rant, that his own family had not reacted well to what he said, which is kind of "understandable", because those things are awful to be aired in national media just like that. I don't know...

Lol, yeah, I can see what you mean about repressed gay feelings.... but in the explanation provided, he brings out the blah blah freedom of speach Americans enjoy (lol) compared to others countries where people cannot be that free to "express themselves" and I think he's talking about China. That is the time when he had visited over there and probably came back with an idea of writing a song about that too.

I was re-reading this interview with Del and he speaks about all these things. Sometimes we forget he said certain things but yet again, not sure if these thoughts are still valid after 25 years.


About hiding/burying emotions:

"It's about facing your pain, and not too many people want to do that. That's pretty normal, I resist and fight endlessly to avoid having to expose certain parts of myself to myself."

"I'm continuously learning that when I get depressed there may be a reason for it that I'm not aware of. It could be something that happened a long time ago, and I've carried a base thought ever since. That base thought hasn't been exposed since it happened, and it's never been healed. I've buried it so deep that I don't even know it's there. I can talk about life and love and happiness, but beneath that there's some ugly thought. Or hatred. Or fear. Or hurt. Something I'm still acting on. By going back slowly."

"(...) It's basically figuring out how you feel and what really bothers you, getting more focused. Then, with my therapist, I work on releasing my unconscious mind. Unless your true self is in pain, why would you want to be detached from it? Yet most people are detached. Who knows how to go back and heal their own pain? Having help and being able to accept it is a lot stronger and sometimes easier. Sometimes it's harder though. I mean, who wants to need help? I found someone I trust and can work with. The methods aren't necessarily important; what's important is the getting there and the healing. A therapist could talk about it better than I could; and if I do, it may throw certain people off. It probably sounds very weird, but the important thing is that it's working. I have certain emotional, mental and physical problems that I don't want to have to live with any longer than I have to, so I'm obsessed with getting over them. The only way a person can tell if they need help is if underneath however happy you think you are, you know that you're miserable. I've been miserable for a long f?!king time, and now I'm not so miserable."

"When you feed someone shit, and they have the balls to tell you what it tastes like, most people have a problem with that. As a child I was beaten a lot. People can't handle a troubled child who doesn't know how to accept help."

----

About religion / Evil / God / Devil:

"I was brainwashed in a Pentecostal church. I'm not against churches or religion, but I do believe, like I said in "Garden of Eden," that most organized religions make a mockery of humanity. My particular church was filled with self-righteous hypocrites who were child abusers and child molesters. These were people who'd been damaged in their own childhoods and in their lives. These were people who were finding God but still living with their damage and inflicting it upon their children. I had to go to church anywhere from three to eight times a week. I even taught Bible school while I was being beaten and my sister was being molested. We'd have televisions one week, then my stepdad would throw them out because they were satanic. I wasn't allowed to listen to music. Women were evil. Everything was evil."

"The Bible was shoved down my throat, and it really distorted my point of view. Dad's bringing home the fatted calf, but I was just hoping for two hamburgers from McDonald's. We were taught "You must fear God." I don't think that's healthy at all. I'll tell you, I don't know what God is or isn't, but I don't fear him or it. I feel a helluva lot better about that. I'm not afraid of it anymore, and I don't feel like I'm being punished by it with the obstacles that occur in my life. If I sound a bit self-righteous, I'm not. I'm just pissed off for, not at, people. I don't like seeing people miserable, and I don't like watching people killing themselves while they're telling me they're happy."

----

About his mother:

"My mom allowed all of this to happen because she was too insecure to be without my stepfather. She assisted in me being damaged on a consistent basis by not being there for me or my sister or my brother. I've always felt this great urge to go back and help my mom. I felt obligated to, but I don't anymore. She fed me and put clothes on my back, but she wasn't there for me. I'm still experiencing anger over this situation, but I'm trying to get over it. Burying it doesn't work for me anymore. I buried it for too long. That's why there's a gravestone at the end of the "Don't Cry" video. I watched almost everyone in this church's lives go to shit because their own hypocrisy finally consumed them."

About his biological father and stepfather:

"With the help of regression therapy I uncovered that my real dad, not my stepdad, sexually abused me. The most powerful anger was this two-year-old child's anger because it was hurt. Nothing could really scare me, because I'd already seen hell. I'd been killed at two and lived through it, and I was miserable because I'd lived through it. I was miserable for 28 years. My stepdad came into my life when I was three or four, and I didn't even know my real father existed until I was 17. I was separated from myself at an early age, and my stepfather made sure I never put myself back together, with his confusing mixed messages of love and brutality. He'd love me one minute, then beat me the next. I've had to learn how to shed both of these men's personalities. I'll take two steps forward, then one step back, but I'm into it."

This is from the "I, Axl" interview for Rip Magazine, November 1992 > http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=12

It's crazy but those two paragraphs about his parents answer a lot of the speculations we usually dwell about in our discussions:

- He is aware his mother was too insecure to leave the abusive stepfather.
- He puts it out clear the stepfather did not sexually abuse him (Zutaut's story enters the doubious zone again)
- He confirms the stepfather entered his life when he was 3 or 4 years old, which is the math we did the other day.

Also, the comment about the stepdad sending confusing messages of love and brutality to him. "He'd love me one minute, then beat me the next". Awfully coincidental with the way he treated both Erin and Stephanie. :unsure:

 

 

Thanks for putting this together and quoting it here again. I remember reading those interviews somewhere last year but forgot some details. So yeah, it sheds a light on his mother.

What I always found confusing with Axl and his 80ies and 90ies interview is, that he sounds so reflective, so understanding and rational about what's going on with him. He does understand some things about the connection of emotional life, experiences and how it can affect you in the present. But he seems not to being able to put that learning into a more understanding, more loving (towards girl-friends), more considered behaviour. It is as if his rational mind is not connected to his behaviour at all.

Or did those interview take place after Erin and Stefanie? 

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6 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Thanks for putting this together and quoting it here again. I remember reading those interviews somewhere last year but forgot some details. So yeah, it sheds a light on his mother.

What I always found confusing with Axl and his 80ies and 90ies interview is, that he sounds so reflective, so understanding and rational about what's going on with him. He does understand some things about the connection of emotional life, experiences and how it can affect you in the present. But he seems not to being able to put that learning into a more understanding, more loving (towards girl-friends), more considered behaviour. It is as if his rational mind is not connected to his behaviour at all.

Or did those interview take place after Erin and Stefanie? 

You're welcome :)

Yes, that's confusing for me too... Not only he seems to have a clear mind about all his problems and how to work on them but in the upcoming years he was still suicidal, depressed, suffering, cancelling shows or starting late, so I guess it's mostly a constant fight he had to do against his own demons. It is what I say when I think he keeps an untamed lion inside, he has to constantly fight against that.

These interviews are mostly from 1992 so his relationship with Erin was over (even though he was trying to get back with her). This one was published in November, 1992 so he was on his way to breaking up with Stephanie.

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1 hour ago, killuridols said:

How did people react about those confessions? :question: What people?? Media, the fans??

I dont remember anything, really... Maybe I was too little to understand certain things or did not have access to the American media, so I'm not sure what reactions he refers to. All I know is what he said in that rant, that his own family had not reacted well to what he said, which is kind of "understandable", because those things are awful to be aired in national media just like that. I don't know...

He was also complaining about other people (like neighbors and more distant relatives I guess) talking badly about him in that rant- "Look what he's done to his mother, she can't even go out of the house now!"

Other musicians, who are/were aware of the stuff he said in those interviews have also used it against him, like Gene Simmons or Kurt Cobain.

But I was mostly referring to what he said in 2012:

Psychological issues: "I worked out a lot of them. It was strange to get successful and lose almost your entire family. Then you end up with daytime TV talk shows. All of a sudden, things considered horrific when I was growing up were so what? You were abused? Who cares? There should be more of a public acknowledgement of reality. When I talked to Rolling Stone about it, I thought people would take a harder look at my stepdad. Instead, they came down harder on me. That's still confusing to me. But surviving at any level is good. I'm a lot better than a lot of people predicted. They were rooting for the opposite. There were things on the Internet about how I'd be found dead. I had a very dark attitude."

 

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

About his biological father and stepfather:

 

"With the help of regression therapy I uncovered that my real dad, not my stepdad, sexually abused me. The most powerful anger was this two-year-old child's anger because it was hurt. Nothing could really scare me, because I'd already seen hell. I'd been killed at two and lived through it, and I was miserable because I'd lived through it. I was miserable for 28 years. My stepdad came into my life when I was three or four, and I didn't even know my real father existed until I was 17. I was separated from myself at an early age, and my stepfather made sure I never put myself back together, with his confusing mixed messages of love and brutality. He'd love me one minute, then beat me the next. I've had to learn how to shed both of these men's personalities. I'll take two steps forward, then one step back, but I'm into it."

This is from the "I, Axl" interview for Rip Magazine, November 1992 > http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=12

It's crazy but those two paragraphs about his parents answer a lot of the speculations we usually dwell about in our discussions:

- He is aware his mother was too insecure to leave the abusive stepfather.
- He puts it out clear the stepfather did not sexually abuse him (Zutaut's story enters the doubious zone again)
- He confirms the stepfather entered his life when he was 3 or 4 years old, which is the math we did the other day.

Also, the comment about the stepdad sending confusing messages of love and brutality to him. "He'd love me one minute, then beat me the next". Awfully coincidental with the way he treated both Erin and Stephanie. :unsure:

 

We knew that Axl has said his stepfather did not sexually abuse him (at least I knew he had said that and I had the impression everyone else discussing this was aware as well).

I mean that's why we were debating this in the first place- because what Zutaut says is in direct opposition to what Axl has said. Iirc we even speculated why Axl might have lied about this, or at least made it seem like it only happened to his sister, if we assume that what Zutaut says is true.

I had forgotten about him saying that his mother stayed with his stepfather out of insecurity though. That answers some questions, yeah.

He appears very conflicted about his mother in that interview. There's still some love and that old feeling of wanting to help and protect her he describes, but also a lot of bitterness and him  just letting go of everything and leaving it (and her) behind.

 

41 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

What I always found confusing with Axl and his 80ies and 90ies interview is, that he sounds so reflective, so understanding and rational about what's going on with him. He does understand some things about the connection of emotional life, experiences and how it can affect you in the present. But he seems not to being able to put that learning into a more understanding, more loving (towards girl-friends), more considered behaviour. It is as if his rational mind is not connected to his behaviour at all.

I don't think it's that confusing. Knowing and being aware of something theoretically doesn't necessarily translate into making the appropriate choices in real life.

It's like these people who swear to themselves they'd never be like their parents, but then they actually have children and fall back into the behavioral patterns of their own parents and slap their kid or scream at it sometimes.

Unfortunately, people tend to revert to the behavioral patterns that are ingrained into them when in situations of high stress or pressure. If those behavioral patterns are ones of violence and aggression, as learned since early childhood, then :shrugs: It takes a lot of work to overcome shit like this, but I have to hand it to Axl on this one, he's one of the few people I can think of who seems to have significantly improved and really turned things around in this regard.

(Interestingly enough, I also remember both Axl himself and Gina Siler talking about how it's not really a rational thing when Axl gets angry, but more like a switch getting flipped and all reason flying out of the window. To me this explains why Axl appears like a very likable, charming fellow when in a good mood, but how he could be utterly terrifying to be around for people like Erin or Gina, when he was upset or mad about something. Instead of reacting like the average person when in some kind of emotional turmoil (i.e. upset or angry, yeah, but not violent or scary), he probably reacted like his step father would.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, killuridols said:

GN'R Official Facebook account posted this today:

A month left!

Who's going from here??

I know @Andy14, @Lumikki, @MillionsOfSpiders, @dgnr, @money honey, @giuls will......... :P

What about @Carlycosmos?? I havent heard from her in ages!!

 

I go to Munich :headbang::lol:

14 minutes ago, Frey said:

He was also complaining about other people (like neighbors and more distant relatives I guess) talking badly about him in that rant- "Look what he's done to his mother, she can't even go out of the house now!"

Other musicians, who are/were aware of the stuff he said in those interviews have also used it against him, like Gene Simmons or Kurt Cobain.

But I was mostly referring to what he said in 2012:

Psychological issues: "I worked out a lot of them. It was strange to get successful and lose almost your entire family. Then you end up with daytime TV talk shows. All of a sudden, things considered horrific when I was growing up were so what? You were abused? Who cares? There should be more of a public acknowledgement of reality. When I talked to Rolling Stone about it, I thought people would take a harder look at my stepdad. Instead, they came down harder on me. That's still confusing to me. But surviving at any level is good. I'm a lot better than a lot of people predicted. They were rooting for the opposite. There were things on the Internet about how I'd be found dead. I had a very dark attitude."

 

We knew that Axl has said his stepfather did not sexually abuse him (at least I knew he had said that and I had the impression everyone else discussing this was aware as well).

I mean that's why we were debating this in the first place- because what Zutaut says is in direct opposition to what Axl has said. Iirc we even speculated why Axl might have lied about this, or at least made it seem like it only happened to his sister, if we assume that what Zutaut says is true.

I had forgotten about him saying that his mother stayed with his stepfather out of insecurity though. That answers some questions, yeah.

He appears very conflicted about his mother in that interview. There's still some love and that old feeling of wanting to help and protect her he describes, but also a lot of bitterness and him  just letting go of everything and leaving it (and her) behind.

 

I don't think it's that confusing. Knowing and being aware of something theoretically doesn't necessarily translate into making the appropriate choices in real life.

It's like these people who swear to themselves they'd never be like their parents, but then they actually have children and fall back into the behavioral patterns of their own parents and slap their kid or scream at it sometimes.

Unfortunately, people tend to revert to the behavioral patterns that are ingrained into them when in situations of high stress or pressure. If those behavioral patterns are ones of violence and aggression, as learned since early childhood, then :shrugs: It takes a lot of work to overcome shit like this, but I have to hand it to Axl on this one, he's one of the few people I can think of who seems to have significantly improved and really turned things around in this regard.

(Interestingly enough, I also remember both Axl himself and Gina Siler talking about how it's not really a rational thing when Axl gets angry, but more like a switch getting flipped and all reason flying out of the window. To me this explains why Axl appears like a very likable, charming fellow when in a good mood, but how he could be utterly terrifying to be around for people like Erin or Gina, when he was upset or mad about something. Instead of reacting like the average person when in some kind of emotional turmoil (i.e. upset or angry, yeah, but not violent or scary), he probably reacted like his step father would.)

 

Yeah, I know. Also feelings are not rational so it makes sense that you cannot control them by mere thinking or resolutions. Still he sounds so insightful and aware. It just leave me being irritated at that.

also the reaction from family or so, accusing him of coming out about childhood abuse is really awful. It is not rare though. It's basically victim blaming, making him responsible about how his mother is feeling about this. Crazy mechanism, but part of a hierarchy system that takes things out on the weaker. It's incredible to me too how people do not react empathetically and side with the victim, but it happens very often. Must have been terrible to Axl.

what did Kurt Cobain say?

Edited by Tori72
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54 minutes ago, killuridols said:

A month left!

Who's going from here??

I know @Andy14, @Lumikki, @MillionsOfSpiders, @dgnr, @money honey, @giuls will......... :P

What about @Carlycosmos?? I havent heard from her in ages!!

Yiss Yiss. Axl for sure can't wait to see me in Prague and then in Vienna with @Lumikki. I bet he's counting down the days

13065781_1578941119102349_1217286974_n.p

:rofl-lol:

Edited by Andy14
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8 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

I go to Munich :headbang::lol:

Yeah, I know. Also feelings are not rational so it makes sense that you cannot control them by mere thinking or resolutions. Still he sounds so insightful and aware. It just leave me being irritated at that.

also the reaction from family or so, accusing him of coming out about childhood abuse is really awful. It is not rare though. It's basically victim blaming, making him responsible about how his mother is feeling about this. Crazy mechanism, but part of a hierarchy system that takes things out on the weaker. It's incredible to me too how people do not react empathetically and side with the victim, but it happens very often. Must have been terrible to Axl.

what did Kurt Cobain say?

Most likely he said a couple of dumb things about Axl as well, but I was more thinking of something he used to do that I read about somewhere:

Apparently Kurt Cobain, knowing about Axl's history and how much he hated to be called by the name he grew up with, made it a point to check into hotels using the alias "Bill Bailey". :rolleyes::facepalm: It's quite likely Axl learned about this sooner or later too, as with most of the other negative stuff coming from Cobain's/Nirvana's side.

 

 

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