GUNS N' ROSES. CHINESE DEMOCRACY.

[STARABOSTES]

1. what is GUNS N' ROSES? is it what you wish it to be? no. it's a band. a brand. an idea. which is not in our hands... which alludes us, illusions us to think that there is a solid ground we can walk on. for most of what I've read here and else were, fans take their wishes for granted. they wish the ground GNR is lying for them would be stable and solid. they wish that this ground would be higher than anybody else's, and all look up to them, just because they stay on this ground.... so since this is not happening (being an desire n' all) they get frustrated, and then go back to the memories road, when their ground was the highest mountain (it was still just an illusion, but one share by billions), and start wishing that the ground will take back that shape again.

my point is that, even if GNR will be "loved" by the billions (since it is loved by millions, around 5 or so, but for a lot of fans that is just not enough) would it really make any difference inside our selfs? for me it won't. because what I got inside it's mine. and I got a world of paradox, very much like the outside world, but with angriness and happiness sang in a special way, in a special melody that the sound of GNR is.

2. how come so much of you overlook that Chinese Democracy is a full message to fans in general. take first song's "Chinese Democracy" verse - "it don't really matter, gonna find out for yourself", then take "Shackler's Revenge" verse - "don't ever try to tell me how much you care for me", and from "Better" - "I never would or thought I could, no matter what you'd pay me, replay the part.." or " so bittersweet this tragedy, won't ask for absolution" and finally " I never wanted you to be so full of anger, I never wanted you to be somebody else, I never wanted you to be someone afraid to know themselves, I only wanted you to see things for yourself" and then "If I were you, I manage to, avoid the invitation, Of promised love that can't keep up with your adoration, just use your head and in the end your find your inspiration to choose your steps and won't regret this kind of aggravation", and from "If the World" - " if the world would end today, and all our dreams we had would all just drift away", from "There Was a Time" - "it was a long time for you(it was a long time), it was a long time for me(it was a long time), it'd be along time for anyone but(it was a long time) looks like it's meant to be", from "Scraped" - "some may convince you, no one can break through, I'm here to tell you, you're worth more than they tell you", and " you know you're stronger than the lies that they tell you" "believe in yourself", and "Sorry" - "you like to have me jump and be good, but I don't want to do it, you don't know way I won't act the way you think I should", " you know that I got under your skin, you sold your soul, but I won't let you win" , " you don't know who in the hell or not to believe", " nobody owes you, not one goddamn thing, you know were to put your, just shut up and sing", and "Prostitute" the whole song. I know that some of the verses I've quoted could go also for "the suits" or for former band mates or lovers or critiques, but never the less they go well to fans also!

so all the lyrics is this album Chinese Democracy is a statement and answer to all problems or questions that the rest of the world could have for Axl.

so hit me! ...with your thoughts on the matter.

this 2 points are some days before posted, and, apparently, I was to "metaphorical" for some people here...

and they started to chat useless and over-ageing-retarded(as in with mind stuck in the past) ideas, just a few seemed to have the brain capacity to think!

so, I'm felling obligated to make this easier for some people.

the capitalism mind understands good as big, big, big sells. well....it's not correct from the point of view of art.

the capitalism mind wants safe and solid investments, even though when considering emotions, which it's far from reality.

music converge artist's emotions and so it creates emotions into listeners.

Guns N' Roses it's an unsafe musical group, but it's musically safe, since with each album they produce the sound and the felling you expect(or at least you wish) too, but in the same time with each one they bring something new, something that you were also hoping too! but... since they are unsafe as a group you are not sore what to aspect from the next album, and that is were the magic is.

about all this, most people get it, or at least 5 millions of us did.

what don't do the rest get? well, first, they don't seem to know history. the so acclaimed now "Appetite For Destruction" album, wasn't when first released "well" received by the "general public" UNTIL the album got a video clip, even 2, to promote it. so, from this perspective, GNR from '87 is almost in the same position as in '08, and since "Chinese Democracy" hasn't yet a video clip, time will tell if I really understood how does a rock band achieve success, that is "popular acceptance and endorsement". from the point of art, musically the last release of GNR is a step forward, which, any artist, or even more each human being should want to achieve! is not about considering which of the 2 albums is better, that would mean to ignore the second original one "Use Your Illusion I, II" which is a bridge between the two, and a monster of rock music on it's on! from the point of "success", I can bet that once "Chinese Democracy" gets one video clip, or at least 3, because GNR music is always images convey into lyrics and sound! then, the "masses" will follow! if this is or ever was the problem of a GNR melomaniac, but it's not . it's about "fans" isn't it? it's about fanatics which first of care more about the bands compositions and how do they look, how "cool" are they or not, or if they fit the way the fans would want to be themselves, and even though the evidence is here, that "Chinese Democracy" is a good GNR album, and one of the best in rock music in the last 10 years, they still say that the music is not "that good" because one particular player they come to adore is not in the present group, or that the group is totally chance since the time they "loved it" first! it's not intention to change what people feel, because that is not my problem too, but, when I see people lost in "emotional would be paradise from the past" it's just in my nature to try to help them out. I was a teen ager when I got GNR into my world, that was in 1990, when they were at their hight of popularity. and I cared for each and every one from the band. from 95' I realized that the band I knew and loved was no more. I bought(my brother) Slash's first album, and GNR sound wasn't there, we didn't like it, we didn't feel it. so, I look else were for music, I got into "The Doors" and "U2" and "Leonard Cohen", "Lake of Tears", "Faith No More", "Marilyn Manson", "Placebo", "Rammstein", but they were, from the point of view of the rocker inside me, just a pass through to the next Guns N' Roses album, which, if it will come out will "make my day" or if not, thats that. then came 2007, I got internet and look for some news about GNR, and I found out, for my frustration that they were in 2006 in Europe, close to my country, and also, I got to heard the new songs from the, then, unreleased "Chinese Democracy" and they blown my mind, like "Madagascar" did in 2002 at VMA (I didn't even knew the name of it until 2004-2005) and I was shore that the hole album will sound good as a GNR album should and it did, and it does. now for, the "re-unionists", I have listen to Velvet Revolver and to Load and to Izzy and to Adler's music, and they don't sound as GNR sounded or it does now, so, that's way I accept GUNS N' ROSES as a band around AXL ROSE because that is what it was and it is, and will be.

Edited August 10, 2010 by roua gri

[WhazUp]

cool story bro

[rockrecord]

.

Edited August 11, 2010 by rockrecord

[FuddMckagan]

tl;dr

[rockrecord]

.

Edited August 11, 2010 by rockrecord

[STARABOSTES]

I get it O Guru...

[Ed Vega]

how come so much of you overlook that Chinese Democracy is a full message to fans in general. take first song's "Chinese Democracy" verse - "it don't really matter, gonna find out for yourself", then take "Shackler's Revenge" verse - "don't ever try to tell me how much you care for me", and from "Better" - "I never would or thought I could, no matter what you'd pay me, replay the part.." or " so bittersweet this tragedy, won't ask for absolution" and finally " I never wanted you to be so full of anger, I never wanted you to be somebody else, I never wanted you to be someone afraid to know themselves, I only wanted you to see things for yourself" and then "If I were you, I manage to, avoid the invitation, Of promised love that can't keep up with your adoration, just use your head and in the end your find your inspiration to choose your steps and won't regret this kind of aggravation", and from "If the World" - " if the world would end today, and all our dreams we had would all just drift away", from "There Was a Time" - "it was a long time for you(it was a long time), it was a long time for me(it was a long time), it'd be along time for anyone but(it was a long time) looks like it's meant to be", from "Scraped" - "some may convince you, no one can break through, I'm here to tell you, you're worth more than they tell you", and " you know you're stronger than the lies that they tell you" "believe in yourself", and "Sorry" - "you like to have me jump and be good, but I don't want to do it, you don't know way I won't act the way you think I should", " you know that I got under your skin, you sold your soul, but I won't let you win" , " you don't know who in the hell or not to believe", " nobody owes you, not one goddamn thing, you know were to put your, just shut up and sing", and "Prostitute" the whole song. I know that some of the verses I've quoted could go also for "the suits" or for former band mates or lovers or critiques, but never the less they go well to fans also!

so all the lyrics is this album Chinese Democracy is a statement and answer to all problems or questions that the rest of the world could have for Axl.

Great stuff I totally agree

[STARABOSTES]

how come so much of you overlook that Chinese Democracy is a full message to fans in general. take first song's "Chinese Democracy" verse - "it don't really matter, gonna find out for yourself", then take "Shackler's Revenge" verse - "don't ever try to tell me how much you care for me", and from "Better" - "I never would or thought I could, no matter what you'd pay me, replay the part.." or " so bittersweet this tragedy, won't ask for absolution" and finally " I never wanted you to be so full of anger, I never wanted you to be somebody else, I never wanted you to be someone afraid to know themselves, I only wanted you to see things for yourself" and then "If I were you, I manage to, avoid the invitation, Of promised love that can't keep up with your adoration, just use your head and in the end your find your inspiration to choose your steps and won't regret this kind of aggravation", and from "If the World" - " if the world would end today, and all our dreams we had would all just drift away", from "There Was a Time" - "it was a long time for you(it was a long time), it was a long time for me(it was a long time), it'd be along time for anyone but(it was a long time) looks like it's meant to be", from "Scraped" - "some may convince you, no one can break through, I'm here to tell you, you're worth more than they tell you", and " you know you're stronger than the lies that they tell you" "believe in yourself", and "Sorry" - "you like to have me jump and be good, but I don't want to do it, you don't know way I won't act the way you think I should", " you know that I got under your skin, you sold your soul, but I won't let you win" , " you don't know who in the hell or not to believe", " nobody owes you, not one goddamn thing, you know were to put your, just shut up and sing", and "Prostitute" the whole song. I know that some of the verses I've quoted could go also for "the suits" or for former band mates or lovers or critiques, but never the less they go well to fans also!

so all the lyrics is this album Chinese Democracy is a statement and answer to all problems or questions that the rest of the world could have for Axl.

Great stuff I totally agree

thank you!

cool story bro

glad you like it

[Ed Vega]

I think Chinese Democracy could have been titled -

Chinese Democracy: The Making of Chinese Democracy

Billboard Magazine: Observers are interpreting some of the songs on "Chinese Democracy" as being about the process of making the album. Is this valid?

Axl Rose: I'd say there's a lot in the lyrics regarding the journey to make the album, even if not in so many words.

http://www.billboard.com/specials/axl-speaks/interview04.shtml

[STARABOSTES]

I think Chinese Democracy could have been titled -

Chinese Democracy: The Making of Chinese Democracy

Billboard Magazine: Observers are interpreting some of the songs on "Chinese Democracy" as being about the process of making the album. Is this valid?

Axl Rose: I'd say there's a lot in the lyrics regarding the journey to make the album, even if not in so many words.

http://www.billboard.com/specials/axl-speaks/interview04.shtml

nice, I've read it before, but I guess it's nice to re-read it again after so long!

on a side note...I've just re-watched WMA 2002, and remember how I felt then, when I first heard "Madagascar"(didn't even knew the name of it, found out only in 2004 or something, not a great "internet man" at that time) and I was blown away - Still am now ! - and I didn't care less for the bad singing of WTJ or PC, and still don't care. for me, that moment was one to acknowledge that creativity and hard rock ballads GNR type were still there, and even more, I realized, that this is Axl's way of creating music (since I never bother to read who wrote what songs in GNR) and now I know that "Estranged", "November Rain" and "Breakdown", songs I've always liked are Axl's. And I have to acknowledge that for "Madagascar" Pitman did a great collaboration with Axl. this song and it's lyrics crates the best "Gnr ballad" for me.

look at crowd... considering all that they've watched n' heard that night, it seems it really digs it! Edited August 7, 2010 by roua gri

[STARABOSTES]

what? no smart reply? you mean you get it? well just look at the most topics around... like the one with Kerrang! about VR I mean come on! that's all you got?

well, I will not let this topic go! so buckle up! "I'll be here standing until the better end"! just kidding...but for a while I'll keep this topic visible! I got my reasons. they are 3 -

Guns N' Roses!

[Tom1447]

1. what is GUNS N' ROSES? is it what you wish it to be? no. it's a band. a brand. an idea. which is not in our hands... which alludes us, illusions us to think that there is a solid ground we can walk on. for most of what I've read here and else were, fans take their wishes for granted. they wish the ground GNR is lying for them would be stable and solid. they wish that this ground would be higher than anybody else's, and all look up to them, just because they stay on this ground.... so since this is not happening (being an desire n' all) they get frustrated, and then go back to the memories road, when their ground was the highest mountain (it was still just an illusion, but one share by billions), and start wishing that the ground will take back that shape again.

my point is that, even if GNR will be "loved" by the billions (since it is loved by millions, around 5 or so, but for a lot of fans that is just not enough) would it really make any difference inside our selfs? for me it won't. because what I got inside it's mine. and I got a world of paradox, very much like the outside world, but with angriness and happiness sang in a special way, in a special melody that the sound of GNR is.

2. how come so much of you overlook that Chinese Democracy is a full message to fans in general. take first song's "Chinese Democracy" verse - "it don't really matter, gonna find out for yourself", then take "Shackler's Revenge" verse - "don't ever try to tell me how much you care for me", and from "Better" - "I never would or thought I could, no matter what you'd pay me, replay the part.." or " so bittersweet this tragedy, won't ask for absolution" and finally " I never wanted you to be so full of anger, I never wanted you to be somebody else, I never wanted you to be someone afraid to know themselves, I only wanted you to see things for yourself" and then "If I were you, I manage to, avoid the invitation, Of promised love that can't keep up with your adoration, just use your head and in the end your find your inspiration to choose your steps and won't regret this kind of aggravation", and from "If the World" - " if the world would end today, and all our dreams we had would all just drift away", from "There Was a Time" - "it was a long time for you(it was a long time), it was a long time for me(it was a long time), it'd be along time for anyone but(it was a long time) looks like it's meant to be", from "Scraped" - "some may convince you, no one can break through, I'm here to tell you, you're worth more than they tell you", and " you know you're stronger than the lies that they tell you" "believe in yourself", and "Sorry" - "you like to have me jump and be good, but I don't want to do it, you don't know way I won't act the way you think I should", " you know that I got under your skin, you sold your soul, but I won't let you win" , " you don't know who in the hell or not to believe", " nobody owes you, not one goddamn thing, you know were to put your, just shut up and sing", and "Prostitute" the whole song. I know that some of the verses I've quoted could go also for "the suits" or for former band mates or lovers or critiques, but never the less they go well to fans also!

so all the lyrics is this album Chinese Democracy is a statement and answer to all problems or questions that the rest of the world could have for Axl.

so hit me! ...with your thoughts on the matter.

TL;DR

[sweetness]

You aren't going to change anybody's mind, Guns N' Roses is whatever you want it to be. To most people, thats Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, give or take Matt and Steven. To others, its just Axl and whoever he hires

[rockrecord]

You aren't going to change anybody's mind, Guns N' Roses is whatever you want it to be. To most people, thats Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, give or take Matt and Steven. To others, its just Axl and whoever he hires

[rodelrastervoltz]

You aren't going to change anybody's mind, Guns N' Roses is whatever you want it to be. To most people, thats Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, give or take Matt and Steven. To others, its just Axl and whoever he hires

Yes, I'm belong to the 2nd one - Axl is Guns N' Roses. That's the reason why I'm enjoying and wasting my time on this forum.

[rockrecord]

.

Edited August 11, 2010 by rockrecord

[The Glow Inc.]

You aren't going to change anybody's mind, Guns N' Roses is whatever you want it to be. To most people, thats Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, give or take Matt and Steven. To others, its just Axl and whoever he hires

To me it's Bumblefoot's side project featuring. Buckethead, Robin Finck, Brain and Axl Rose :xmasssanta:

[Bumble's Bridge Pickup]

You aren't going to change anybody's mind, Guns N' Roses is whatever you want it to be. To most people, thats Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, give or take Matt and Steven. To others, its just Axl and whoever he hires

Yes, I'm belong to the 2nd one - Axl is Guns N' Roses. That's the reason why I'm enjoying and wasting my time on this forum.

If you heard the mashups, you might change your mind. Axl is far from a one man show. Slash makes axl sound 10000 times better. as well as duff.

It's Axl who makes (made) Slash sound good. Most of Slash's side projects have a big meh factor to me. Can't comment on Duff since I've not listened to his solo material

[rockrecord]

.

Edited August 11, 2010 by rockrecord

[sweetness]

It's Axl who makes (made) Slash sound good. Most of Slash's side projects have a big meh factor to me. Can't comment on Duff since I've not listened to his solo material

most people would say the same thing about Chinese Democracy and it's lack of Slash, Duff, and Izzy.

[star]

It's Axl who makes (made) Slash sound good. Most of Slash's side projects have a big meh factor to me. Can't comment on Duff since I've not listened to his solo material

most people would say the same thing about Chinese Democracy and it's lack of Slash, Duff, and Izzy.

+1

Slash gave Guns the sound that made the band. Without Slash, Axl is nothing.

It might be a couple more years before he wakes up to the facts.

Edited August 9, 2010 by star

[sweetness]

It's Axl who makes (made) Slash sound good. Most of Slash's side projects have a big meh factor to me. Can't comment on Duff since I've not listened to his solo material

most people would say the same thing about Chinese Democracy and it's lack of Slash, Duff, and Izzy.

+1

Slash gave Guns the sound that made the band. Without Slash, Axl is nothing.

It might be a couple more years before he wakes up to the facts.

i think they're both pretty big giants on their own, but together they're a force to be reckoned with. They just have that "it" factor about them that isn't nearly as prevalent when they're on their own. But oh well, at this point we can only dream about such awesomeness... and make VR + Axl mashups

[rockrecord]

It's Axl who makes (made) Slash sound good. Most of Slash's side projects have a big meh factor to me. Can't comment on Duff since I've not listened to his solo material

most people would say the same thing about Chinese Democracy and it's lack of Slash, Duff, and Izzy.

+1

Slash gave Guns the sound that made the band. Without Slash, Axl is nothing.

It might be a couple more years before he wakes up to the facts.

i think they're both pretty big giants on their own, but together they're a force to be reckoned with. They just have that "it" factor about them that isn't nearly as prevalent when they're on their own. But oh well, at this point we can only dream about such awesomeness... and make VR + Axl mashups

you got it! and, another new one is coming tomorrow august 10th!

[seely]

It's Axl who makes (made) Slash sound good. Most of Slash's side projects have a big meh factor to me. Can't comment on Duff since I've not listened to his solo material

most people would say the same thing about Chinese Democracy and it's lack of Slash, Duff, and Izzy.

+1

Slash gave Guns the sound that made the band. Without Slash, Axl is nothing.

It might be a couple more years before he wakes up to the facts.

i think they're both pretty big giants on their own, but together they're a force to be reckoned with. They just have that "it" factor about them that isn't nearly as prevalent when they're on their own. But oh well, at this point we can only dream about such awesomeness... and make VR + Axl mashups

you got it! and, another new one is coming tomorrow august 10th!

oh the joy

/facepalm

[rockrecord]

.

Edited August 11, 2010 by rockrecord