PatrickS77

On 9/20/2020 at 10:20 PM, action said:

gotta love grammatical gimmicks

first it was aliens, predators etc

then it was the batman, the predator, the alien... did we have the superman yet?

what could be next? BATMAN, all capitals?

what a load of bollox

Actually it was The Batman way in the 40s already.

4 hours ago, blackrose87 said:

I would love to know his (and everyone's) status in that band as of now. Are they all just contract for hire workers (excl. Axl) or is he a fully fledged member with an actual stake in the band. I'm not sure if this has even been disclosed publicly for Slash and Duff.

Is there anything that remotely suggests he is more than an employee??? Why would anyone make him a partner and/or let him have a stake in the band? That makes absofuckinglutely zero sense to do that.

2 minutes ago, Sosso said:

Bullies like you? 

Nah. People wanting to take leads from Slash to give them to a musician for rent. Not sure where you seee a bully here.

41 minutes ago, Gackt said:

Yeah. That. Some people should just not be on a GNR forum.

41 minutes ago, Dean said:

So what you're saying is Pitman just has another 4 years to wait to receive the accolades he deserves following the 25th anniversary of Oh My God? Has to be the same with singles?!

Beautiful. I'll keep my towel handy...

The whole thing is corrupt as fuck anyway. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but UYI put GNR on an entire different level with the big stadium tours/production and whatever else.

 

Obviously the work should be somewhat meaningful. Like AFD and UYI. Not throwaway like OMG (and an Album, not a single). But yes, why do proper members and acts and bands have to wait 25 years until they could get inducted, but some insignificant rent-a-musician, who joined 10 years ago, can get in right away, because he was lucky to join a HOF-"worthy" band? That's not really fair, is it?

6 hours ago, Dean said:

If it was upto me, he'd have been in with Guns too. The fellas that were around for the Chinese sessions would've been in with a shout had Axl put out more than one album, a case could definitely have been argued for them.

Slash and PHT sharing a stage. Beautiful.

Thank god, it isn't. Since GNR are in there because of AFD and to a lesser extent UYI, none of the people, not inducted with them, would make any sense to be inducted. At all. Absolutely no case.

And really, since their whole thing is, 25 years after the first album, nobody's who's recording/contribution to a band, isn't at least 25 years old, should be inducted.

20 hours ago, ToonGuns said:

Only the drummer is left from the MK1, MK3 and MK4 lineups.

Edit: I actually love all line ups of Deep Purple and GnR. But if anything there was more consistency with GnR than Deep Purple (I think most people would take a consistent singer as opposed to a consistent drummer). The key difference though is Deep Purple have a very very extensive discography.

You  might wanna rethink that consistancy part:

They have more consistancy (and significant members in the band) than GNR ever had. The only line up where you could argue is not Deep Purple is Mk IV. All the others have pretty much the members that make up and are expected to be in Deep Purple. And unlike GNR they kept releasing abums, which makes it all the more acceptable.

20 hours ago, ToonGuns said:

Only the drummer is left from the MK1, MK3 and MK4 lineups.

Edit: I actually love all line ups of Deep Purple and GnR. But if anything there was more consistency with GnR than Deep Purple (I think most people would take a consistent singer as opposed to a consistent drummer). The key difference though is Deep Purple have a very very extensive discography.

You might rethink the consistancy part:

10 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

They left the fawking band... they left the band!! how did we become the bad guys? *Slams door*

Yeah. They left or were driven away by an impossible to work with control Freak (just like Newsted was), claiming to be the boss of his former collegues. They wouldn't have left, had he behaved differently.

14 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Together they are bigger, but split apart Axl was the best on his own in my opinion. I know you don't think any opinion other than yours counts but you're wrong on that too.

Oh. The irony. He was playing exclusively GNR Songs (I should rephrase, the GNR songs the fans wanted to hear plus some new songs he tried to pass off as GNR songs), something Duff and Slash never did. So, no. He does not. He's playing stadiums when he's with Duff and Slash. He doesn't when he's on his own. So, once again. No he does not.

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Whether Dizzy is significant or not is an entirely subjective opinion. He definitely added his instrument to UYI and also wrote music for CD and as such he was a performing and writing member of the band, and I thought that was what we discussed.

Yes, AFD was the product of 5 guys writing together with a few other guys (like Arkeen) under the direction of a manager and being helped in studio by some other guys. And this changed slowly but surely over the years. The band never really stood still. By 1990 one drummer had been replaced and the band had got a keyboardist. By the end of 1991 a guitar player had been replaced and the touring band had got another keyboardist, three horn blowers and two additional singer. These are significant changes over few years. I would argue (without bothering to do the calculation) that the rate of changes didn't pick up much after 1994, really. The main reason why it seems so abrupt is that the various lineups didn't release anything nor did much promotion, so by the time CD came out the band had evolved so much away from how it was by the time of the last release, 14 years earlier, that it simply became too much for many fans to process.

Still, if you think that the changes becamse too much by the time CD was released for the band to still be "GN'R", that is your personal subjective opinion, and I am not going to discuss that. You are entirely entitled to your own feelings 

Up to CD Dizzy added nothing creatively to GNR. He played what he was told to play. And what he played, at the end of the day, didn't change much.

All the other changes you mention, nothing of that had to with the recorded music/albums, which we are talking about here. And there are plenty people saying that even UYI wasn't quite GNR anymore.

So AFD 5 guys = GNR. UYI 4 guys = slightly diminished GNR. CD 1 guy (+ 1 guy who previously never contributed creatively) + 6 (or however many actually ended up on the album and with writing credits) other guys = new band operating under old name. Even Axl called it a new band. And that is not my personal opinion. It's the opinion of many.

4 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

End of the day, the singer holds the cards!

No. He really doesn't. NITL tour is the proof.

10 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I have always considered a solo record to be one where one man writes the music and tells the rest of the band to add their instruments. With CD it was more the case of everybody writing the music but with one who would decide which songs to continue working on and decide when one song was ready to be released (about never). I think many bands have such strong leaders with musical vision. But this just comes down to definitions, really

Ozzy Osbourne left Black Sabbath and released solo albums ever since. You thinking that a solo album has to be created like Prince does, or close to it, doesn't change that. And no one really thinks that. And there are few solo artists, who write everything themselves.

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But everybody wasn't missing. Two of the five guys from UYI was still in the band when CD was released. Don't get me wrong, this is very different to the changes from AFD to UTI when only one person was replaced, but it was you who claimed that "GNR was a collaborative effort of 5 guys", not me.

Once more. Dizzy is insignificant. Just ask Slash. He contributed nothing to what was GNR. AFD was the product of 5 guys. And like I stated before, I'm not talking about the odd member change were one drops out. And yes, to some even that is not GNR anymore.

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The same as what? The band has been changing for every LP released (AFD->UIY->SI->CD). Yes, the changes from SI to CD were bigger, no one is denying that. I am replying to your statement that "GNR was a collaborative effort of 5 guys". Again, what five guys? Those who recorded AFD? Those who recorded UYI? Those who recorded SI? Or does it not matter who these five gys were, just that it was 5 and not 4 or 6? 

The same as what I previously said. A gradual/organical change. Members leaving in the course of years, in the course of several albums. Not from one album to the other. And stop playing stupid now asking for every shit to be spelled out. You know which 5 guys made the original GNR allbum. And the covers album with no original song is insignifcant too.

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Not only was the reconfiguration of Guns N' Roses a gradual thing, it happened over many years.

Axl, Duff, Slash, Dizzy, Matt, (Paul)

Axl, Duff, Dizzy, Matt, Paul

Axl, Duff, Dizzy, Vrenna, Paul

Axl, Duff, Dizzy, Robin, Paul

Axl, Dizzy, Robin, Paul,

Axl, Dizzy, Josh, Robin, Paul

Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, Josh, Robin, Paul

Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, Josh, Paul

Axl, Dizzy, Buckethead, Tommy, Josh, Paul

and so on.

All of these lineup and players were involved in the writing and/or recording of new music. I recently talked to Krys Baratto who was involved as a session musician while Matt and Duff focused on the Naurotic Ousiders and he would describe the fluidity of the band and how many people came and went. It simply wasn't a case of UYI integrating with only Axl left, and then new guys coming in. There were overlaps.

And yet it's not the same and you know it.

3 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Yep - think it was BS ft Tony Iommi?

I mean from the AFD5, Adler fired, Izzy quit as did Slash 5 years later and then Duff a further 2.....the years when it was just Axl and Duff would have been interesting.

Its always going to be one of those subjects that divides unfortunately. Fun to debate though. 👍

Yeah. Especially to know how much they actually, really worked together in that time or wether it just was a on paper thing.

14 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I assume those five guys would be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Steven and Duff? Then I suppose UYI wasn't a GN'R record, either, since Matt had replaced Steven by then. 

And although Chinese Democracy wasn't written by the exact 5 guys who wrote and recorded AFD (together with some other writers like West Arkeen), or the 5 guys who wrote and recorded UYI (again, together with other songs writers and performers), or The Spaghetti Incident (hey Gilby!), it certainly was a collaborative effort and not a solo record:

In the words of Tommy, who - with all due respect - I consider more knowledgable on this than you:

 

Axl doesn’t bring in a song and tell everybody how it goes. ... He’ll take one idea, then ask somebody else to finish it. He’s trying to draw the best out of each individual.

Geez. Don't play stupid now. You really don't want to compare the UYI situation, where a drummer was missing to the CD situation, where everyone was missing.

And I already posted that Axl himself says he doesn't consider it a solo album, so no need to bring in Stinson's take, even though that first statement probably proofs that Axl needs other people to finish a song. He's no Trent Reznor. But the band that recorded CD also no GNR. At the end of the day, he was the leader or moderator (or whatever you wanna call it, he's the one with the record deal) of that project, no matter how much others think it's an equal band situation. Just like other solo artists, like the aformentionend Ozzy and Alice and many more, wo don't do everything themselves, work.

5 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

True - a better example is Black Sabbath...Iommi was the only original member for about 3 albums! Ozzy fired and the other two left - although the quality of those albums ranges from bad to very good apparently!

Yes. But even that happened more organically and gradually with one member after the other leaving / getting fired. Black Sabbath did become somewhat of a joke though, in terms of a band context, with dwindling audiences and only Dio and Ozzy (and Geezer, Vinny and Bill) returning became somewhat respected and welcome in big places again. And Seventh Star actually was a solo album and only on the record company's insistence was released as Black Sabbath. So what is written on the sleeve really means nothing.

26 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Doesn't really answer the question though. Your opinion on what something is and the limitations of what it ever can be are just that... your opinion. 

My opinion is that CD is a Guns N Roses record, and we're both equally correct. Not trying to change your mind! just saying it's not black and white. Also, Axl wasn't alone, he had a huge band... and Dizzy  

I appreciate the history of the band, but I'm fully ok with a band that was intact for a very short period (even if it was their most successful and famous time) having line-up changes and I'm very ok with still calling that band by the same name. You can feel however you want about it though! But My opinion isn't changing so, not much point arguing whether CD is GNR or not, but I am interested in you answering the first question nonetheless.

100% agree!

This subject always rears its head in times of trouble😄

Nah. It's not. If I say blue is green, because I call it green, it also doesn't make it green. But yeah, no point arguing about it. What question? There are several? Hypothesises about other bands are irrelevant, when we talk about this particular band, where there was no clear leader and everyone contributed making up what GNR was. You have to look at what type of band you're dealing with and then go with that. For example Nine Inch Nails is a band in name, but we all know it's not really a band, but Trent Reznor with musicians. So in his case it's much easier to accept every effort as Nine Inch Nails, as it's basically Trent Reznor albums anyway.

31 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Here we go again 😂 - too many opinions/viewpoints. Legally etc it absolutely is....it has the name in the cover. Stylistically - it’s not THAT far removed from UYI. But then if you have a picture of what GNR was and it had to have certain members then in that opinion it’s not GNR in spirit. Me? Yep it’s a GNR album - many bands in history go through massive upheavals and still release stuff which is ‘canon’....Deep Purple being a good example.

But with Deep Purple it happened organically. A member left, a member came. You never had the case where only 1 member was left (Dizzy doesn't count as he never contributed anything to what used to be GNR) and all the other members in the band have never played with any of the original guys. We're not talking about the odd member change. We're talking about a singer hijacking the name and exchanging every member. So that's the difference.

18 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

That last point is definitely not for sure. It's not your idea of what a Guns N Roses record is, for me it is the exact thing I consider GNR to be at least in attitude.

Yes. It is. Axl alone is not GNR. GNR was a collaborative effort of 5 guys. None of these other people he's working with on CD have anything to do with GNR. I don't care what is written on the sleeve.

11 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Yeah that is crazy. But it also kinda makes me double down on the record being a collaborative record rather than a 'solo' album like a lot of people here love to say. 

Well. Axl himself said it's no solo album and that it would sound different if it were a solo album. But still. Alice and Ozzy also work with other people and the muscians they are playing with and still it's a "solo album". The main point is, it's no GNR Album. That's for sure.

2 minutes ago, James Bond said:

Aside from Robin's solo I've genuinely never cared for This I Love. It has always reminded me of one of those songs that pops up midway through a Disney Renaissance film when the main character faces the biggest struggle.

But that doesn't make it a bad song. I like that it's something you wouldn't quite expect in the context of a Guns N' Roses song.

5 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I hear that argument a lot but I don't think the length of the performance effects Axl one way or the other.. A decent chunk of that time is taken up by Extended jams, intros, solos, Duff spot and just straight up long ass songs. The songs he sounds bad on he will sound bad on no matter if they were crammed into a 90 minute set or not. He doesn't really sound any worse as the show goes on.  There have been some really good Out Ta Get Me, Nightrain, My Michelle and Patience performances late in the shows.

Exactly. Then I'd rather have a long show. The only thing to justify the extortionate ticket prices. It's not just a cash grab. They play twice as long as they would need to.

18 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

TIL never ever needs to be included in any more setlists. The vocals are crap and the lyrics are just cringe. Ive never understood why axls insists its a song being worthy to add. Its just a piss breakbreak/get another drink time. Replacing with michelle/OTGM would be more better.

I disagree. Love the song.

On 24.8.2020 at 4:17 PM, downzy said:

You're far better off waiting until the day before or day of and taking advantage of people trying to unload tickets or the promoter discounting tickets to max revenues.  

Yes. Or that backfires and they cancel the show, because there are way to many empty seats and they don't want to risk a loss. Like Hamburg and Vienna for example. Or the US Shows that haven't been rescheduled.

On 23.8.2020 at 3:46 PM, ToonGuns said:

Suit yourself by "LOL" ing at my views, but my wife is pregnant, I have a breathing issue, and two members of my wife's family have died of COVID. So people can LOL at me as much as they want, but until there's a vaccine I wont be sharing a sweaty mosh pit with 10,000 others.

I think he's LOLing at the prospect/anticipation of there ever being a working vaccine for covid. Who's to say that there will be one, when there is none for the previously mentioned diseases? And they've been trying since decades to create one.

On 23.8.2020 at 3:54 PM, Original said:

Well I’m sorry for your situation but I just wouldn’t hold breath for a vaccine.  They’ve been working for decades on other vaccines and no go.  Good luck.  

Oops. You already said it. Yeah. If we're being realistic, with a bit of doom and gloom. We're fucked.