PatrickS77

2 hours ago, Derick said:

These solutions seem easy when you're out, when it's not you who signed the contracts and when something goes very wrong you will not be held accountable. Imagine if they start touring with Adler, people buy tickets (including you) and something bad happens and they take Adler away, you would be the first one to come here to criticize them. And if something really serious happens, they would be crucified for the rest of their lives.

 

I don´t think so. This bed has been built over these 28 years. It wasn´t built just during the events that happened 28 years ago. Please tell me how many tours Adler has successfully completed in the last 28 years.

P.D .: I want to clarify that I don´t believe it's his fault. He's just another victim of this fucking disease. But it´s too stupid to pretend that this problem doesn´t exist and throw all the blame on Axl, Slash and Duff. 

That is bullshit and you know it. They also had Izzy sporadically guest in '06 without any fallout when he wasn't there. If there is a will... but apparently there is not.

21 hours ago, IncitingChaos said:

They all love Steven, they just don’t think he’s best for the band. And possibly it’s not best for Steven. 

My opinion: I would love to see him on the road more with the band. These guys are in their 50’s, time isn’t on their side. Stevens passion is GNR, let him live that out even if it kills him. The band itself isn’t doing anything special. They need to stop pretending they are on the verge of a breakthrough album. Play the music with people who love the music and ride it out into the sunset, quit pretending it’s anything more than a money tour. 

Not all of them love him. But really, with the boatload of money this tour is raking in, paid by us, they could let him play the Appetite songs. That's all he wants to do anyway. And let Ferrer do the rest. And if Adler fucks it up, they could just kick him off the tour and move on with Ferrer. Like that they would give the fans what they want, give Steven what he wants and Axl would fullfill his "obligations" to Ferrer and would still feel that most people in the band are on his side. Everyone would win. No risk for anyone.

5 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Steven made his bed, he is laying in that bed. 

Geez. You mean the bed from 28 years ago?? That bed? It's not like the others haven't fucked up and walked away too.

1 hour ago, Powderfinger said:

It appears he wears it as it has become necessary! 😂 Get hair plugs man, you have the cash! 

Yes. That's what I thought. But there was a not so old pic of him without a hat and it doesn't look bad. But he could also wear a baseball hat, just like at the Joe Perry show. Just not that damn top hat. He became his own caricature.

15 hours ago, StrangerInThisTown said:

Just..no. Izzy is not my idol. I advice you to check his new "great" post in the official GNR thread about fotus and see what you think about that one. Great guy to stand up for huh?

Huh? He said what about whom and where?

6 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

I think that every time I see him without it.  It has become very cartoon like and cheesy these days.. He should still use it but sparingly.

Yeah. He should only pull it out for Paradise City and maybe SCOM (and November rain, but only if he steps on the piano to play the solo) and otherwise not use it. It definitely has become cartoonlike.

1 hour ago, tremolo said:

No.

Uhm. Yes.

18 hours ago, GNR 1991 said:

They could go with losing most of those cover songs, especially the ones that drag (Layla, Wish You Were Here, Black Hole Sun). Even though I love them, I’d even drop Wichita Lineman and The Seeker. 

 

Replace those 5 covers with GNR songs that haven’t been played yet with this lineup and just like that, this leg gets way more interesting.

Well, I'm pretty much sure that BHS and WL will be dropped. If they keep it, they do it to spite the people who want to see it dropped.

6 minutes ago, Tom-Ass said:

Maybe people just don't like Fortus because they don't think he is a good fit.  I know that is the case for me. 

For me it's mostly because I would have preferred a clean cut. Throw out everything that has to do with the FakeGNR era and get the Appetite/Illusion guys back. But obviously Axl would never allow that.

1 hour ago, tremolo said:

Slash doesn’t seem to prepare for some of the songs. Especially the CD material. Just noodling and improvised arrangements that sound horrible and don’t service the songs properly. Dude, you’re getting paid millions, listen to the fucking songs, work on something that sounds good and that shows that you put some fucking effort and dedication in it. He’s absolutely capable of doing it, the guy could do wonders!! I remember when this whole thing started and fans were wondering (and hopeful) about the renditions of the CD material with this new band, mostly about how Slash could turn those new songs into something special. And what happened... just lazy improvisation.

Be glad that he plays those CD songs at all and move on. He doesn't have to learn shit his 3 stand ins did note for note. Also he doesn't have to play the other stuff note for note the way he recorded them 30 years ago. That would be boring as hell. Slash does it great the way he does it now.

1 hour ago, Sunset Boulevard said:

Guys...

You just all miss ONE point : nobody original GNR Fans need s Izzy to come back. Nobody. Axl Rose/CD/casual/radio/event fans don't care.

NITL is the 4th biggest tour in music history... without Izzy.

It's all about Slash and Fortus on guitar. They are He is the one s the entire world wants to see.

End of story.

Fixed that for you.

1 hour ago, MYWIFEMYLIFE said:

They can drop off the songs made with Izzy and Steven too, so no AFD, no half of Lies and UYI. People will still see slash  axl with duff, aye?

Yes. On the first round. And then they would complain and be upset and feel they have been cheated and certainly would not go a second or third time. Seriously, you freaks should just stop. People go to these shows because they want to see Axl and Slash do these old songs. Period. Anyone claiming something else is a fucking fool.

27 minutes ago, Derick said:

Yeah, maybe he wanted to do this tour or do the reunion but then he realized that he would have to deal with what other people wanted too..he would have to deal with being in a band and not in his solo career where he does what he wants to do without having to take into consideration what other members want..So maybe we have a  similar scenario to what happened with VR:

"-Why did you reject the invitation to reunite with Velvet Revolver? 

Izzy: "I wanted it to be a quartet: Slash, Duff, Matt and I, but they really desired a singer, and as we know, singers can be quite problematic sometimes. So I simply decided to follow my own path." 

-Is it true that you suggested that you Duff would take care of the vocal tasks in the band? 

Izzy: “Yes. That would have been better." 

-How did they respond to that idea? 

Izzy: “I believe that Duff liked the idea, but Slash said no." "

 

It´s all about what he want..It´s ok but in a band things don´t work that way.

Seriously you must think that Izzy is a total tool bag. He left GNR partly, because he was fed up having to deal with a nutty singer, who could hold the band hostage at a whim. When there was talks about forming VR he wanted to be in a band, but not risk having to work with a nutty singer again and preferred to work with supposedly easier going guys like Slash and Duff. When they didn't want to do that, he left. Fair and square. Don't you think that he knows that reuniting GNR involves being in a band again (with said nutty singer). You think the he forgot that reuniting GNR means being in a band again? It just slipped his mind when he was asked about it? Seriously, stop it dude. Your dislike for Izzy being in the band is irrational and borderline pathological.

20 minutes ago, Derick said:

Now what is attracting all this money is the possibility of seeing Slash back to Guns N'Roses....

....playing those old songs. Without them there is nothing to see. This tour would have been done, had they only played CD, Slash and Duff solo songs. Everything is based on these old songs.

7 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

i dont know much about this partnership thing

i guess axl and slash and duff "own" guns n roses name, rights, so its likely that all money from merch, t-shirts, and whatnot is theirs

i think its fair to believe that izzy wasnt referring to any of that when he said that they didnt wanna split the loot equally

i think its fair to believe that izzy was referring to money from ticket sales

i think it would be fair to split the money from ticket sales equally and i think thats what izzy asked for

===

it appears to me that the big 3 axl, slash and duff dont want to deal with izzy for several reasons

one seems to be obviously the money

but i suppose its way more than that

slash is likely the one who really doesnt want to deal with izzy, since he never wanted to deal with izzy from day one. its much easier for slash to deal with a yes-man session musician. i believe slash campaigned for matt as the rumours indicated but i dont think slash campaigned for izzy for one minute, or did it so half-heartedly that its like he never did

duff, if you ask me, would do whatever it takes to get this tour going. so if what it takes to do this tour is NOT having izzy and steven, it seems to me that duff would go for that! if what it took to have this tour is to have izzy and steven, it seems to me that he would do it as well

axl also must have several reasons not to be willing to deal with izzy.

too many to list

power and control obviously come to mind

izzy would likely challenge some of the axl shots. the yes-men axl has surrounded himself with would never ever do that

i truly suspect that one of the biggest reasons axl wont ever do a GNR reunion is that he would be too EXPOSED and he obviously doesnt want that.

Izzy, Slash, Duff and Steven would sound TOO GOOD and Axl would NOT, so he would be completely exposed as the weak link in the band.

Having the shittiest drummer ever, a grooveless guitar player and 2 keyboarders is the best possible DISTRACTION for Axl onstage.

All of a sudden we are not noticing how much Axl voice is fucked. We are all complaining about Franky, Ricky and these DISTRACTIONS Axl has onstage, and we are all sorta forgetting about how much Axl is unlistenable on several songs these days

===

I think izzy would easily commit to a 2 or 3 years world tour. like some people mentioned before, this is likely the easiest tour EVER, specially when compared to previous tours that all these guys have been involved with...

===

yeah the heroin dealer thing... i think all five of the guys have pretty nasty stuff on their past including drugs, abusing women etc.... It’s a certain kind of person who sells junk, it's a certain kind of person who beats women etc etc etc

you are possibly correct about Izzy possibly being cutthroat and selfish in business dealings but i dont see any reason to believe axl and slash and duff -- who went to business schools -- are not very similar or just the same

===

the thing about doing just one show, or five shows, like someone mentioned previously on this thread, is that it would be extra hard to sell the G&A show after 1 or five G&R shows

people all over the world would want to have G&R and not G&A so that would not be a smart business decision, right?

Might not agree on every point, but in general sounds about right. At least that's the impression we could get as outsiders based on the infomation we have and not privvy to every single internal information.

12 minutes ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

Not really. I just thought I'd pop in and comment on how a thread about Matt and Izzy going to a film festival turned into an 11 page debate about Izzy's involvment with the band

Good. I thought I would have to get you help somehow. So you can simply close the thread and leave, if it bores you that much.

36 minutes ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

All of those topics are more interesting to me than reading through another Izzy thread 

Geez. Is there someone with a gun sitting next to you, forcing you to read these threads?

1 hour ago, Sunset Boulevard said:

let’s talk about Axl, Slash, Fortus, Duff... you know, relevant musicians and artists.

Fortus is not relevant.

8 minutes ago, Derick said:

 

 

 

Again. Just stating the obvious. Based on what they all said over the years. Not blaming.

14 minutes ago, Derick said:

You blame them for not accepting Izzy's demand. C´mom did you expect them to accept this "equally" bullshit? I think not even Izzy expect that...that´s why I believe this is much more an excuse to not be there than anything else!

Why would they supposedly have to split equally? Because he´s one of the founders? Because of the songs that they maked together? Everyone knows that this tour is so successful just because Slash is back and this tour is much more based on the Axl/Slash duo than the old songs themselves. Yeah, maybe in our romantic idea of how things should work in a band they should give him what he wants..but in the real life is not that way. And Izzy knows that, he´s not a dumb.

Sorry but It´s hard to believe that Izzy doesn´t want to be a rockstar but wants to be payed as one. That´s why I don´t buy this "split the loot equally" talk! Well maybe I'm wrong and he really wants things that way. If this is the case, he´s nuts!

I don't want you to put words in my mouth. I dare you to show me, where I blamed anyone. I'm just stating the obvious we can take from his tweet, Axl and Duff's interview, Axl's general opinion of a reunion of all 5 original members and how things went down.

Also I can see both sides, why Izzy is justified in wanting an equal share of the money made on this tour, which doesn't make him nuts and I can also see why the other's see it differently. The partnership is no real issue for me though.

24 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Izzy doesn’t want to be there and anybody who thinks otherwise is romanticizing his desire.

Now that is speculation. But whatever. Done with this topic. Too many deluded people here, who make things up as they go along.

37 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

That’s speculation, you don’t know what he asked for and he isn’t on record, he issued a tweet. 

He tweeted about it, so he's on record. He complained that they didn't wanna split the loot equally. So that shows that wanted equal pay. No speculation there at all.

37 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

I believe you are correct about your Izzy conclusions. It should be obvious to people that Izzy doesn’t want to in GNR as a full-time member. I belive he asked for equal pay for the sole reason of excluding him as a possibility. Izzy was fully aware that he sold his stake in the band and he would not be given an equal share or anything close to that amount. Additionally,    Izzy appears to have zero interest in full time touring. And the UYI was super successful without Izzy. His musical contributions and importance to GNR can not be debated, but the world didn’t care at all during the UYI tour that he was absent. 

Right. He doesn't want to do it, but instead of simply saying so or well, do nothing and sit back, let the reunion unfold, he asks for equal pay, gets denied and after an interview with Axl and Duff, several months into the tour, where they are claiming that he's flaky, he gets on record and complains that he wasn't gonna get as much as the others. Makes perfect sense.

9 minutes ago, Derick said:

I dare you to show where I said he is lying and also dare you to show where he says they did not want to give him enough money.

"Enough" is too vague and he was very specific on that Twitter message: "They didn't want to split the loot equally". I asume that´s true, they don´t want to split the loot equally but I believe even between them they didn´t split the loot equally and I also believe that´s not the main reason why Izzy it´s not there. 

Anyway..I didn´t say he's lying what I say was that he´s using this bullshit as a excuse to not be there. It´s much easier to say this, which in a way is true, than to assume that he don´t want to be there. 

You backed by your guessing clearly put all the blame on the Big 3. I just don´t buy it..Analyzing Izzy's solo career and his moves as a musician I wonder if the Big 3 are this evil that you and others Izzy´s fans are saying. I still waiting for someone to tell me when it was the last show he did to suport his own songs. He has released tons of songs over the last 10 years so tell me something about those tours, about those GIGs that he did...Yeah, nothing!!! So are you telling me that my scenario doesn't make sense at all? C´mom man!

 

This is getting tiring. I dare you to show me where I said that the 3 (they are not big in this context) are evil!! Yes, Izzy was specific. And the 3 would have been the ones responsible for not splitting the loot equally, giving him a reason to not do it. You're insinuating that that wasn't quite the case and was either made up or enhanced. But whatever. He left the tour in '91. Didn't have a problem then, to let everyone know that he wasn't interested in GNR. So why would he have a problem 25 years later to say that he still is not interested in touring with GNR and use money issues, made up or enhanced, as an excuse instead??? That doesn't make sense. That he would publicly project a made up rift and argument between him and the other guys, thus souring their relations, doesn't make sense.

And whether he did tours on his own, really is only a smokesscreen and irrelevant. With GNR there is first class touring. On his own he's sitting on a tour bus, plays clubs and probably looses money. Maybe he simply doesn't want to do that. What is more important is that the one major tour he did in all those years was with GNR.

4 minutes ago, default_ said:

My guess is that Axl had so strong bonds with Fortus/Frank that Duff and Slash, seeing as they are professional musicians, agreed to stick with them. Some people like to undermine their careers but Fortus was in some major alternative rock bands like The Eyes and Psychedelic Furs (this one with Frank). Those bands, while not in the same genre or level of popularity as GNR, were important bands to that subculture, Psychedelic Furs were even compared to the likes of Echo and The Bunnymen. Oh, and dont forget Slash tried to get Fortus to his band.

So, maybe, they'all agreed that this would be a new incarnation of the band that could do fine. We like to assume that they dont have chemistry together, but is that what they think? how should we know? Maybe they feel great playing with them and dont feel like the AFD5 is needed. They dont own anything to Izzy and Steven after all.

Id love to get the AFD5 back, but the assumption you guys made are so unfair and impartial.

So that brings us back to that they (Axl) didn't want him and probably made an offer in that direction, which either would have reduced Izzy to some guest spots or give him substantially less money than the others, hoping that he wouldn't accept.

21 minutes ago, Sunset Boulevard said:

This succes is also his success. Neither Izzy, nor Adler.

Nah. This success is not his success. I wonder, who's delusional here. This success is Axl and Slash's success (and to a lesser extent the ones who built GNR ages ago) . Fortus has to count his lucky stars that he's allowed to be part of this. Anyone could have his place and it wouldn't change a thing.