maXx

That could lead to a war.

it would give barak an excuse to enter into 'talks'

who's michelle catalano? is that his michelle .. controversial find btw

uh, i get it. michele is a guy

didn't..honest!

I've never in my life heard anyone use that term.

I was intrigued.

I was curious as to what demographic uses it and to what situations it applies.

uh, fair enough. i only heard it sparingly and it referred to having the courage to move past traditions and rules .. to do your own thing, if it makes you happy, especially when others want you not to. i never thought of it as applied to destroying things (as sugaray mentioned in his comment) & i wouldn't call that punk either, i'd call that stupid.

the ones with any sense are a mile on down the road doing what in 10 years everyone'll wish they'd've thought of first.

ye, like shuffle said earlier, when something becomes radical, the wheels of commerce are right behind it

Therein lies the problem, punk rock says if you can't see em, be em Thats a criticism of me as much as anyone else cuz alls i'm doing is waiting and looking too. To quote Mr Rollins again (its a Rollinsey day) knowledge without mileage = bullshit. Its that simple, if you don't hear noise you like, make noise you like.

ye, i'm tryin. it's not that easy to be original with the amount of commercial pressure around these days. as much as i live as true to myself as i can, despite the pressure, i been looking out for that wave of inspiration that opens up a good tune, finally. but it aint comin. i gotta pick up my guitar some more.

ozzy co-wrote it with the help of his producer (is that slash or someone else?)

But i think when people refer to something as being so punk rock we all know what they mean

What do they mean??

now now get with it zint

I'm trying...that's why I asked.

What does "that's so punk rock" mean??

obviously you got this answer from sugaraylen, although of course you knew it all along. But to put it in my own words; it just means that it breaks the rules.. and it does so in an almost enviable way, i guess ..

Things that are essentially matters of the spirit are not subject to ownership, they are bigger than that, nobody owns being pissed off and saying it, assigning ownership to punk almost invalidates the idea of ANYONE can do this, stand up and speak up...how exactly to you expect someone to stand up and speak up through a medium or movement when you make it clear that its not theirs?

Thats sorta what i gathered to be the point like hey aren't you sick of this, aren't you pissed off? Yeah? Well say so!

well that's exactly what i think, it doesn't belong to any specific group. the minute it starts belonging it's not punk anymore. and even john rotten expressed heartfelt disappointment at the leather and safety pins trend that emerged after word got around about them. he said himself it was never meant to be a style, it was out of necessity that those guys looked that way (which i fully get) And he hated that those that followed them weren't being individuals.

Whenever music gets too self indulgent or becomes inaccessible a crop of bands comes up that changes shit around.

i'm waiting ......... i'm lookin .........

But i think when people refer to something as being so punk rock we al know what they mean

What do they mean??

now now get with it zint

www.clarin.com

best pic of axl posted so far. first pic this tour worthy of being my screensaver

what size you need?

1680x1050 ... pleeeeez

Yeah, exactly. It evolved more by each step, and in different directions also, at one hand we got the hardcore punk, and anarcho punk and all that, and on the other side there was also pop-punk and also other genres evolving from punk (post-punk, new wave, indie rock and any number of genre-mixes). Yeah, the highest grade I had a lot of fun too since I was writing about something I actually gave a shit about for once I wrote it a few years ago though so I'd probably have lots of complaints about it if I read it today...plus, it was mainly about first wave punk so my knowledge doesn't really extend to anarcho punk and the like...

true, there were a lot of spin offs and directions. it's something that can be debated endlessly as it seems to mean something different to everyone. But i think when people refer to something as being so punk rock we al know what they mean

UK isn't where it all began. It began in New York with Television, Ramones, Patti Smith, Richard Hell, Johnny Thunders etc. Personally I love both the London and NY scenes but I prefer the NY scene slightly.

well if that's what you think then i guess it depends on what you call punk. i was thinking political anarcho punk [hardcore], that's punk to me.

True. I won't argue with you on that, since our definitions of punk differs.

then again, if you want to see it your way you need to go back a little sooner to the velvet underground yeah?

You could do that, yes. But the actual punk scene didn't start until Television and Patti Smith started playing at CBGB's. There's always the problem of when to draw the line...like you said, you could start with VU and (talking only New York) go through the New York Dolls and then the CBGB scene and you could make valid arguments for many different scenarios. Personally I go for the VU+NYD=proto-punk, the CBGB scene=the beginning of punk, the London scene=continuation and partly radicalization (although things went partly in a more commercial way too) of the NY scene and then on to everything else.

post radicalisation always comes commercial. thats evident with so many scenes, not just music. but i agree with your scenarios pretty much. malcolm maclaren had the idea from the new york dolls and john lydon came along at the right time. the thing that stands out for me is the spread of idealogical anarchy in music across brittain after that, which to me embodies what punk is all about. imperfect bands driven by anger and truth without the pursuit of the dollar.. and not afraid to get in the face of it all.

Yeah, I agree. Personally that's not the only thing that I consider to be "punk" (not saying that you do either), it's a part of it but I'm mainly focused on the music itself...at least when it comes to my own opinions. I've written a 70 page paper about the social and political part of punk and its effects so I know what you're talking about

impressive. i love the music too, but still i'm the one who needs to take a back seat to you in this case.

Obviously, in hindsight, it's more correct to say the brits took punk to its extreme. did you grade well on your paper?

how can any one album be named the greatest of all time, that's an impossible call

[sorry if out of time here but i confess i haven't read the entire topic]

i keep changing my mind about who i think has the greatest .. and that's only going by those i've heard, which is minimal compared to what's out there - obscure and unobscure

UK isn't where it all began. It began in New York with Television, Ramones, Patti Smith, Richard Hell, Johnny Thunders etc. Personally I love both the London and NY scenes but I prefer the NY scene slightly.

well if that's what you think then i guess it depends on what you call punk. i was thinking political anarcho punk [hardcore], that's punk to me.

True. I won't argue with you on that, since our definitions of punk differs.

then again, if you want to see it your way you need to go back a little sooner to the velvet underground yeah?

You could do that, yes. But the actual punk scene didn't start until Television and Patti Smith started playing at CBGB's. There's always the problem of when to draw the line...like you said, you could start with VU and (talking only New York) go through the New York Dolls and then the CBGB scene and you could make valid arguments for many different scenarios. Personally I go for the VU+NYD=proto-punk, the CBGB scene=the beginning of punk, the London scene=continuation and partly radicalization (although things went partly in a more commercial way too) of the NY scene and then on to everything else.

post radicalisation always comes commercial. thats evident with so many scenes, not just music. but i agree with your scenarios pretty much. malcolm maclaren had the idea from the new york dolls and john lydon came along at the right time. the thing that stands out for me is the spread of idealogical anarchy in music across brittain after that, which to me embodies what punk is all about. imperfect bands driven by anger and truth without the pursuit of the dollar.. and not afraid to get in the face of it all.

UK isn't where it all began. It began in New York with Television, Ramones, Patti Smith, Richard Hell, Johnny Thunders etc. Personally I love both the London and NY scenes but I prefer the NY scene slightly.

well if that's what you think then i guess it depends on what you call punk. i was thinking political anarcho punk [hardcore], that's punk to me.

True. I won't argue with you on that, since our definitions of punk differs.

then again, if you want to see it your way you need to go back a little sooner to the velvet underground yeah?

UK isn't where it all began. It began in New York with Television, Ramones, Patti Smith, Richard Hell, Johnny Thunders etc. Personally I love both the London and NY scenes but I prefer the NY scene slightly.

well if that's what you think then i guess it depends on what you call punk. i was thinking political anarcho punk [hardcore], that's punk to me.

As for the "scene" question, I did mean both time and place. "The 70s" wouldn't technically be a correct answer. But who gives a shit.

Favorite music scene in a given period- 70s of course, with bowie, the sweet, skyhooks, tRex, Status Quo, .. so many .. the slade, fleetwood mac, too many to list

... mid 70s UK pop is that better?

Favorite Punk debut- No idea, someone recommend me something

UK punk is where it all began .. apart from the obvious now-commercial sex pistols i'd recommend to you flux of pink indians or rudimentary peni. the latter being a little thrashier

if you want something a tad easier but still in that vein go for omega tribe (my fave) or stiff little fingers (irish band from the north)

Favorite Punk debut- Omega Tribe - No Love Lost

Neil Young or Bob Dylan- fuk, both

Favorite current artist/band on the charts- no one

Artist/band you would like to listen to more of soon- bob seger

Favorite music scene in a given period- 70s of course, with bowie, the sweet, skyhooks, tRex, Status Quo, .. so many .. the slade, fleetwood mac, too many to list

The best singer ever (at least this week)- eddi veder

AC/DC: Bon or Brian- Bon!!! (kudos to brian tho')

Artist/band you listened to tons of in the past, and wish you still would, but you never feel like it- just got into Joplin again fort this reason

Biggie or Pac or I don't like Rap- heard more of Smalls than tupac

Most irksomely popular artist/band- Ga Ga

So, is this the biggest headlining gig since 1993?

Look, the stadium capacity is for 60000 ppl but only 40000 tickets were put on sale. And IS NOT SOLD OUT 5000 tickets remaining.

Lets not lie to each other.

i like you ..

cool fan interaction, ongoing

or you just go to work with your eyes bulging out of your head and drink a lot of water, and slap yourself silly so your boss don't see you sleeping. at least you have comforting memories of the night before rock1

if he didn't have any strange habits i'd marry a guy like that (for a year and a day)

that's a little nylon string classical he's playin in't it? wonder if it's his own

..(edit) going by the autographs on it & the fact that it's a bit outta tune, maybe not.

No, it's not his guitar. He tweeted that one of the fans had it with him (?).

But Ron is a guitar weirdo so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a similar thing in his collection.

guitar weirdo i can handle, any other weirdo.. i dunno and somehow i don't find it hard to imagine him with somethin like that. /thanks for that btw/

Happy Birthday Vanessa! First post updated to show setlist and photos so far, gnite everyone!

thanks gunsguy

I think these shows are perfect length. Tight set lists, rotating CD material, honing the show i see nothing wrong with it. the impression i get in latin american latino countries like south america and spain is they stay up later anyway and take naps around noon and drink continuously. st patricks days? right im getting lashed.

a festive attitude to life.. should be more of it .. oh and quote [fixed] btw.

if he didn't have any strange habits i'd marry a guy like that (for a year and a day)

that's a little nylon string classical he's playin in't it? wonder if it's his own

..(edit) going by the autographs on it & the fact that it's a bit outta tune, maybe not.

Intro

1-Chinese Democracy

2-Welcome to the Jungle

3- It`s so easy

4- Mr. Brownstone

5-Sorry

6-Better

Richard Fortus solo

7-Live and let die

8- If the world

9- Rocket Queen

Dizzy Reed solo

10-Street of Dreams

Jam

11-IRS

DJ Ashba Solo

12-Sweet Child O Mine

13-You could be mine

Axl`s piano solo - Another Brick in the wall

14- November rain

Bumblefoot solo

15-knockin on heavens door

16-Nightrain

Encore

17-Madagascar

18- Shackler's Revenge

19-This I love

20- Patience

21-Paradise City

i'm jealous. come to australia

it's an identifying thing .. rap and hip hop speaks closer about the blacks' lifestyle and conditions, i think. they can relate more closely. kinda like what bluesy said.