allwaystired

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It is hard to understand what you mean by "survive". If you mean "continue to tour with the same amount of people coming to the shows" then of course you are right, GN'R wouldn't be able to do that without Slash. But "survive" is much more broad than that, it simply means that the band doesn't cease to exist. In my opinion, and this is really elementary, GN'R could continue to exist but as a less popular band without Slash. Slash's absence wouldn't make it impossible for Axl to release music, nor for him to tour with much less people coming to the shows (if he still wanted to tour). So you are wrong.

And my perspective on this has of course nothing to do with defending anything but purely with logic and reason. You constantly trying to ridicule my opinions as if they are solely moved by me wanting to "defend" the band is incredibly immature and simplistic and only makes you appear like a simpleton who are not able to understand the finer points of arguments and perspectives.

Actually, it's not me constantly trying to ridicule your Defence League position (I think this is the first time I've ever mentioned it) but there are obviously many on here who have been saying that, so it's easy to get us confused.

If you want to be pedantic about the word 'survive', go for it. I think we all know without Slash, GNR are as dead as a dodo. 

Yes they could probably limp around half sold bowling alleys and private parties again, if that helps the matter. In the eyes of the ticket buying public, they'd be done. 

Just now, Blackstar said:

There are legal documents affirming that they're partners. Also, for what it's worth (or not), Fernando has also referred to them as partners. So, what we know for certain, is that they're not employees ("well paid" or not), officially and legally.

The details we don't know are the terms and conditions of the current partnership, e.g. whether it's a continuation/amendment of the 1992 partnership or there are different stipulations regarding touring, merchandise, releases, etc.

I suppose my definition of an 'employee' is always someone who works for someone else.....so if they're not equal partners, they are employees really. That's the way I see it, in any business really. Probably not an accurate way of seeing it though, in the legal sense. 

I'd be amazed if it was a continuation of the 1992 agreement. Surely Slash/Duffs management could get them a better deal than that on their business negotiations? 

10 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

We know they are three partners. Unlike you I don’t pretend to know the details. When reading your posts, I get the impression Duff and Slash are employees like Fortus, just better paid. I don’t believe that for a second.

Huh? I don't know any details. I just go on the things I read here, usually links that @Blackstar posts which have references.

It does feel like Slash and Duff are well paid employees, I agree with you. That's the impression that comes across- that it's very much Axl's band. 

I'm still not really sure about the 'knowing all the details' bit? None of us know much really - hence why we all come on here and speculate and share our viewpoints? 

40 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Guns N' Roses survived Slash quitting in the 90s and would survive Slash leaving now, too. Any albums released would sell less, sure, and tours would be far less profitable, but it worked before and would work again. 

Is Slash likely to leave? Definitely not as long as they keep the succesful tours going. But if they stop touring and start fighting over new music, Slash would likely shift his attention away from GN'R and maybe altogether leave. A possible scenario could be Axl insisting on prioritizing working on and releasing more CD era music with Slash insisting on writing new songs. In such a situation, with the band being deadlocked, Axl might force Slash out to be able to keep releasing his songs. And with no intention to tour, it wouldn't matter that much if Slash was gone. 

There is zero chance GNR would survive were they to lose Slash now. 

I know you like to play the 'GNR Defence League Representative' character on here, but it's absolutely ludicrous to suggest what worked (and wasn't really working towards the end of Nu-GNR) pre 2016 would work now. 

Without Slash GNR would be finished. Unless they fancied touring tiny theatres to minimal interest. 

13 minutes ago, colonizedmind said:

By the time this album comes out, one thing is for sure...we will have debated the complete A-Z of the music business inside out 😝

I think we did that in the last 1000 page thread. This is just a deluxe reissue, with bonus frustration, bafflement and resignation. 

27 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Great 🤣

ignoring facts and official documents just to cement their opinions 😬

In what way are people doing that on here? I'm confused. 

GNR is a business that has three partners, as documented. They're not equal partners. 

Isn't this what people are discussing or am I missing something here? 

What amazes me with this is that they even altered individual lines in songs, so half of one line is from one show, half from another. 

The amount of effort this must have taken is remarkable.....for what gain really? Madness. 

12 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

Yep. We'd probably have 3/4 new albums if it was up to everyone bar axl

Absolutely. At least 2 I'd say. 

What goes on with the guy, we can only speculate on (and do, frequently!) but Slash/Duff don't even seem to have the sway to get a live album released. 

Just now, JimiRose said:

Perhaps was well thought out lyrically for the first verse. the problem is they just repeated it and that seemed lazy. 

 

I agree. He's obviously the most important member of the band and when it comes to touring I don't think GnR survive if slash says he's out. However, when it comes to any actual decisions, such as songwriting, song releasing, band promotion and what the band can and can't say, he is clearly just as important as a stage tech. Axl decides and dictates all of that. Slash knows his importance is to the live show and the band image, and that is where he is making 99.99% of his cash from being in GnR, so he doesn't really care about the other stuff. Axl obviously really does care about the other stuff (well 'care' perhaps isn't the word) so he is in control of that. Hence we get regular touring and irregular releases. Slash has all the power when it comes to £££ for touring. And he has absolutely zero when it comes to new music. 

Even the new songs with slash on, no one has really given a shit. The argument could be that is because it wasn't in support of an album, and it came too late, no marketing campaign and had the wrong lead single etc even half of the people here say they'd prefer the versions with bucket and finck. So Slash knows where he matters and he knows where he doesnt. I imagine Axl probably does too

Without Slash the band would be dead now, no question. Axl knows that, TB knows that, we know that, Slash knows that. 

His position, I'd say, is placed due to that. More money, more prominence that the likes of Fortus, perhaps even a cut of the profits.....but if people think he has much sway in other stuff I'd say they're wrong. His manager will have negotiated him a good deal in this business. 

Doubtless he and Duff are pushing for an album (and if it was up to them we'd have it by now I'm sure) and I still feel those singles were done to appease them, because if Slash packs this up- this show is done. 

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

We have this regarding the current official business status of the band:

GNR is a musical group and partnership organized and existing under the laws of the state of California with their principle place of business in Los Angeles, California. GNR’s general partners are W. Axl Rose (“Axl Rose”), Saul Hudson, pka Slash, and Michael McKagan.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t8330-2019-05-09-gn-r-vs-canarchy-craft-brewery-lawsuit-document-related-articles

We also know that Slash and Duff have their own separate management.

If they're partners in the business then that obviously does put them above Fortus.....but there's no way they're equal partners. 

It's the Axl show all the way -as it has been since the 90s really. I don't see it as a 'band' structure at all, in the way that other bands are. 

I'm desperate for someone to write a real 'tell all' book about how this band operates! I can't see it happening really, but sort of hopeful Kat might do something at some point about life on the road and stuff.....although legal stuff will probably stop it. 

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Weren't you speculating the other day that the "CD leftovers" are being released because of pressure from Slash and Duff to Axl? Supposing for a minute that could be true, then the speculation that Slash is at about the same level as an employee would be contradictory. And vice versa. So there can't be truth to both these assumptions at the same time.

But I think neither is true. And regarding the way Slash responds about GN'R, it's just that he isn't comfortable answering these questions, because that's all he can answer knowing very well that there's not such thing as a "concrete plan" when Axl is part of the equation.

Yeah I think he'd probably putting pressure on (same with Duff) but it doesn't seem to have much impact. 

My view on it is Slash is very much an employee, but one which the company knows is valuable and couldn't lose. Fortus is an employee too but more expendable. 

That's just the way it appears to me -it's the Axl brand and show all the way. 

34 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Slash can't force the way Axl operates and it was like that at least since the Illusions era. That doesn't mean that he's the same level as Fortus or an employee.

I honestly don't think he's far off- just better paid. The way he refers to GNR are really telling. 

3 hours ago, vloors said:

Yep and its not his fault there isnt any new album or songs.

I know he would love to have them out too. Same as duff.

Yep. He's being honest about it, but his status when it comes to doing anything seems to be about the same level as Fortus. 

He talks about the band like he's an employee.....which I suppose is pretty much the case now. 

"Guns N Roses are very hard to pin down to a date" is the understatement of the year. 

Poor old Slash. He must be sick of these questions. 

2 hours ago, Coma16 said:

Greatest Hits (the new condensed one)

I think you may have missed what the thread is about with that one! 

Estranged

Shacklers Revenge 

Shotgun Blues

Out Ta Get Me 

That sort of covers a lot of bases, styles wise. 

21 minutes ago, bmus1 said:

Yeah digital only. They usually come out 5-8 weeks after the album to re-boost on streaming platforms as a “new release”.

Yeah. It bothers me less when it's digital only. I've had a few bands recently though do it with CDs and physical stuff, which is very annoying. I'd have bought the deluxe initially, but I don't want to buy the same album twice! 

Agreed on Longfeather. Great song. 

21 hours ago, bmus1 said:

Expanded edition is out today! I was hoping for a new version of Mezz with Slash from the same sessions Hope is from, but the new tune with Jesse Dayton is cool.

I think Longfeather is the best solo Guns song since they reunited.

Is this digital only? 

I find these kinds of things really annoying when bands do them well after the release date- sort of a kick in the teeth to the people that go out and buy the album on release. 

45 minutes ago, bmus1 said:

Lol lemme rephrase; I need to listen to the 2nd album more than once 

Haha! Didn't get very well received the second one, but I think it's totally as good as the first. A lot of people would disagree with me though! 

4 hours ago, bmus1 said:

I always find it interesting to read posts from people hoping for a VR reunion. I started listening to Slash around 2010, so to me VR is just another one of his numerous pre-Myles solo groups. I need to give them a proper deep dive. Would a VR reunion without Scott actually have different traction versus SMKC?

You really don't need to give VR a 'deep dive'- they only made two albums! 

I'd like to see them reunited with a different singer to hear what they'd sound like and what they could write. It would be different of course, but I think it could work. From what others have said on this thread though it seems unlikely, even though they did spend quite some time auditioning for a new singer to replace Scott, if memory serves. 

3 hours ago, Sweersa said:

Imagine on the next Guns record they have Myles Kennedy singing on a few of the Village instrumentals Axl didn't finish.  

6 hours ago, F*ck Fear said:

I'm still hoping for better tracks than 'Killing Floor' as I didn't really care for that.

If The album is a dud, than I hope for SMKC to do another record. Some may find it boring but to me it's the kind or rock n roll that Slash is perfect for.

I'd imagine SMKC will do another album regardless. I agree- it's decent rock n roll, a fun listen, and I hope they do more stuff. 

13 hours ago, 2020_Intensions said:

Never expect any actual news from this nonsensical waste of a thread. I've always seen any big news regarding GnR on FB first from a news site. Never was anything "new" discovered by checking this thread lol

He was one of the biggest rockstars of the 80s. 

You won't BELIEVE what Axl Rose does now.....

CLICK NOW!!!

The way I see it is that GNR don't 'owe' us anything. They don't want to make music - up to them. It's not like they're taking money from us and not delivering. We're not paying for albums they're not delivering. 

The other side is that it's very frustrating for people that have been fans for decades. It's made more frustrating by the carrot-dangling that's gone on for years of new material just being around the corner. That makes it feel very infuriating. 

If GNR said "no, we're done now, come and see us play if you want, it'll be the same music, but there's no new stuff planned, at least for the foreseeable future" I think the dynamic would change. I think most people would respect that honesty. 

On a personal level it's the chronic waste of time, talent and opportunity that annoys me. People would kill for the attention and fan base GNR have, let alone the talents of every single band member, and to just let that pass by year after year seems such a waste to me. I'm not going to ever defend that. 

Ultimately though..... it's boring to a lot of people. And GNR were never boring. 

32 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yet, according to all sources and everything that has been documented, it was Axl who wanted and asked Slash and Duff to rework these songs. Although it's safe to assume that Slash and Duff would prefer to work on brand new music, they agreed to work on the CD era songs because Axl wanted it and probably seeing it as a step towards potential new music.

So, even though I'm sure they would like to record new music, they wouldn't suggest to re-record these songs themselves if Axl didn't ask them to.

Did that wanting and asking come out of the blue though, or after others asking to write/record new music? 

13 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I doubt that Slash and Duff would try to put pressure on Axl, they know he doesn't react well to pressure/deadlines/criticism. I do agree that they would feel a bit embarrassed deep down every time either are asked about new music.

I wouldn't imagine 'pressure' is the term, but given their productivity and activities outside of the band, it must be clear they get restless- and surely they must have made rumblings about new music on several occasions and asked questions about it...otherwise even the little that has happened wouldn't have done.

I can't see Axl being the driving force on them recording their additions, especially given he seemingly did nothing new himself to the tracks.