Alan Niven, "I cannot digest is that he states that he is Guns N' Roses because on his own – he is not.”

[Zint]

Guns N' Roses as far as I’m concerned played their last show on April 7th 1990 in Indianapolis which was the last show live show at Farm Aid that the original line-up played.

ah shit...I never saw Guns n Roses

Not the real Guns N Roses.......... B)

So Guns n Roses without Adler wasn't the real Guns n Roses?

the real GnR was Axl, Duff, Izzy, Slash and Steven.......Any thing after was watered down with the leaving of each original AFD member.........just my opinion...........

was the first song I saw GnR perform live.

Seemed pretty damn real to me.

Yeah, losing Steven didn't really affect much.

Izzy left and it all went to shit.

I dunno man.

I saw some pretty amazing GnR...errrrr....I mean watered-down-not-real-GnR shows in '92 and '93.

The Skin and Bones show I saw fuckin ripped.

Watered-down-not-real-GnR were pretty damn amazing on the Metallica tour too,both times I saw it.

B)

[Orsys]

legal documents don't define rock bands

Well, that's a pretty naive statement. Do you really think those 'rock bands' aren't concerned about legal documents, aren't defined by them? Do you think they don't fret over every lyric, note, sample, song, album, rider, etc? Even you're precious AFD lineup - your so-called real GnR - came up with an interesting point system on the distribution of profits based on member and contribution.

Without legal documents, you don't have rock bands.

[tange]

Guns N' Roses as far as I’m concerned played their last show on April 7th 1990 in Indianapolis which was the last show live show at Farm Aid that the original line-up played.

ah shit...I never saw Guns n Roses

Not the real Guns N Roses.......... B)

So Guns n Roses without Adler wasn't the real Guns n Roses?

the real GnR was Axl, Duff, Izzy, Slash and Steven.......Any thing after was watered down with the leaving of each original AFD member.........just my opinion...........

was the first song I saw GnR perform live.

Seemed pretty damn real to me.

Yeah, losing Steven didn't really affect much.

Izzy left and it all went to shit.

I dunno man.

I saw some pretty amazing GnR...errrrr....I mean watered-down-not-real-GnR shows in '92 and '93.

The Skin and Bones show I saw fuckin ripped.

Watered-down-not-real-GnR were pretty damn amazing on the Metallica tour too,both times I saw it.

B)

I think he means it went to shit as far as writing songs is concerned.Not sure though

[Zint]

Guns N' Roses as far as I’m concerned played their last show on April 7th 1990 in Indianapolis which was the last show live show at Farm Aid that the original line-up played.

ah shit...I never saw Guns n Roses

Not the real Guns N Roses.......... B)

So Guns n Roses without Adler wasn't the real Guns n Roses?

the real GnR was Axl, Duff, Izzy, Slash and Steven.......Any thing after was watered down with the leaving of each original AFD member.........just my opinion...........

was the first song I saw GnR perform live.

Seemed pretty damn real to me.

Yeah, losing Steven didn't really affect much.

Izzy left and it all went to shit.

I dunno man.

I saw some pretty amazing GnR...errrrr....I mean watered-down-not-the-real-deal-GnR shows in '92 and '93.

The Skin and Bones show I saw fuckin ripped.

Watered-down-not-real-GnR were pretty damn amazing on the Metallica tour too,both times I saw it.

B)

Don't put words in my mouth Zint

I was responding to bacardimayne actually.

But yeah,I only got to see watered-down-not-the-real-deal-Izzy-still-in-the-band-Guns n Roses a couple of times.

ah well...I dug it!

[GN'R Forever]

I love the new and old band, I really do. However I think people (especially around these parts) are more concerned about Axl than anybody else. I've been very guilty of this myself, however reading through this topic is kind of an eye-opener. I don't agree with Alan Niven though. 1990 Farm Aid was the last Appetite line-up show but it wasn't the last Guns show. I know people like Alan Niven and Mick Wall were there, but it's just hard to take their opinions as anything more than old men bitter against Axl because of how much they bash him. Then there's people like Marc Canter and all of the old band-members whose opinions I actually CAN take seriously. GN'R took a MAJOR, major loss when Izzy left in '91, but I even felt it was Guns then with Gilby & Matt. However, when Slash, Duff, and Matt left it just didn't feel the same. I'm mixed because I support Axl and see where he's coming from, but I have too much respect for the other guys to just automatically dismiss them. I'd absolutely love a reunion tour, but I still like the new band. Catcher in the Rye is one of my favorite Guns songs of all time. I think I'd be able to form a better opinion if they just settled on a solid lineup instead of changing all the time and having all these session/studio musicians.

[Zint]

AW fuck...now I'm majorly bummed!

Not only did I not see Guns n Roses...I never saw The Rolling Stones.

The Stones ceased to exist after (heart and soul of the band) Brian Jones' last concert with the band.

fawk!

[sweetness]

legal documents don't define rock bands

Well, that's a pretty naive statement. Do you really think those 'rock bands' aren't concerned about legal documents, aren't defined by them? Do you think they don't fret over every lyric, note, sample, song, album, rider, etc? Even you're precious AFD lineup - your so-called real GnR - came up with an interesting point system on the distribution of profits based on member and contribution.

Without legal documents, you don't have rock bands.

oh please, you cant seriously be attempting to make this argument...

you know what i mean

[dimitrisaxl]

Zint61 you're in a great mood today!!!

[Fun n' Games]

legal documents don't define rock bands

Well, that's a pretty naive statement. Do you really think those 'rock bands' aren't concerned about legal documents, aren't defined by them? Do you think they don't fret over every lyric, note, sample, song, album, rider, etc? Even you're precious AFD lineup - your so-called real GnR - came up with an interesting point system on the distribution of profits based on member and contribution.

Without legal documents, you don't have rock bands.

If I remember right, you are in the legal buisness yourself, aren't you?

Trying to explain that the world is really made up of paragraphs..

[Zint]

AW fuck...now I'm majorly bummed!

Not only did I not see Guns n Roses...I never saw The Rolling Stones.

The Stones ceased to exist after (heart and soul of the band) Brian Jones' last concert with the band.

fawk!

There are some Stones fans which would agree with your statement.

I know!

The Stones ceased to exist in the late 60's!

Ah well...I still consider not-really-the-Stones 78 tour as the greatest show I've ever seen.

And I'm completely looking forward to the release of not-really-the-Stones blu-ray of the '72 tour.

Don't give up hope Zint...... Axl, Duff, Izzy, Slash and Steven are still alive and playing music so maybe they will do a reunion some day and you will see the real deal..... B)

Well I sure hope so!

I don't want to have to settle for watered-down-not-the-real-deal-Izzy-still-in-the-band-1991-Guns n Roses.

That would be...well,you know.

[rockerman]

legal documents don't define rock bands

Well, that's a pretty naive statement. Do you really think those 'rock bands' aren't concerned about legal documents, aren't defined by them? Do you think they don't fret over every lyric, note, sample, song, album, rider, etc? Even you're precious AFD lineup - your so-called real GnR - came up with an interesting point system on the distribution of profits based on member and contribution.

Without legal documents, you don't have rock bands.

it was those very same legalities that killed "the rock band"..its true when every leech and parasite starts poring over ever anal fissure of the players..(much like many of the people in this forum) that the 'rock band" loses something. In the end even the most satanic hateful rebellious band is nothing but a corporate logo and brand. a product a and a money machine. thats why most really good bands usually only have one maybe two and possibly three really outstanding albums before they go cliche and fragment. I said most because theres bands out there with 7-15 albums under their belt that can still give the goods and write amazing music. But even they fall back on the old stuff from the "good ol days" I e Iron Maiden, Pink Floyd, Bon Jovi Journey ect ect...

Like Niven said the chemistry is the key. Its hard work being in a band and working with 5 or 6 other people to express talent is akin to herding cats. Get some ego in there mixed with some drugs and whole lot of baggage and issues and you have the reason why the GNR nighttrain came to a screeching halt and has stayed stalled .

Do you know how many legalities it took to unravel the original group from allthe corporate holdings and investments? about 13 years worth of wrangling.. who profited..US fans? no.. The lawyers. I suspect that all that chaos is in part why there will be no reunion..Axl said Steven alone would be more drama than worth.

it was those middle men that became yes men that divided the group too. The Grima Wormtounges(lord of the rings referance there) that whispered in eavry ear that assured every member that their part was the most important.

[sergiodefenders]

AW fuck...now I'm majorly bummed!

Not only did I not see Guns n Roses...I never saw The Rolling Stones.

The Stones ceased to exist after (heart and soul of the band) Brian Jones' last concert with the band.

fawk!

Very bad analogy. It is NOT the same losing ONE member than losing almost ALL members. Above all when the only one member who stay NEVER was the only writter.

When I attended to the show in Santigao months ago, I knew I'm not really seeing Guns n' Roses, but a very important part of it was. I enjoy the show anyway.

Edited September 21, 2010 by sergiodefenders

[Longpig_mark II]

Granny has got issues.

Fact is it's not the same band as it was, they just have the same name.

End of story, there's nothing else to debate, that's the truth.

If McCartney called his current band the beatles it would be the same as what GNR is today.

Doesn't mean it's not good, it's just not the same band.

LP

[Zint]

AW fuck...now I'm majorly bummed!

Not only did I not see Guns n Roses...I never saw The Rolling Stones.

The Stones ceased to exist after (heart and soul of the band) Brian Jones' last concert with the band.

fawk!

Very bad analogy. It is NOT the same losing ONE member than losing almost ALL members. Above all when the only one member who stay NEVER was the only writter.

You need to go back and read the interview posted (which this thread is about),where it was stated by Alan Niven that Guns n Roses ended after the Farm Aid 1990 gig...Adler's last.

[WhazUp]

The GNR name situation is different than the VR situation

In GNR all but one original person left the band. In VR only one person left, leaving the majority to be the original members.

And a lot of people also argue the fact that Slash shouldn't be considered the original GNR guitarist. He may not be the first GNR guitarist (that is Tracii Guns) but he is the most well known GNR guitar player, and helped write waay more songs than Tracii ever did, therefore making him a bigger part of GNR history than Tracci ever was (and ever will be)

As for Axl's new Guns lineup, I dont consider it to be the "true" Guns N' Roses. At least in 1992 the majority of members in the band were still from their most famous lineup leaving Matt Sorum and Gilby.

Regardless of the name, Chinese Democracy is a fantastic record, and Axl is still one of the greatest frontmen around

Edited September 21, 2010 by WhazUp

[Stro]

Granny has got issues.

Fact is it's not the same band as it was, they just have the same name.

End of story, there's nothing else to debate, that's the truth.

If McCartney called his current band the beatles it would be the same as what GNR is today.

Doesn't mean it's not good, it's just not the same band.

LP

But would people be upset if McCartney reformed Wings with a totally different roster? And what about people who feel that Wings sounded better playing Beatles songs than the Beatles themselves did? Macca's backing band for the past 10 years or so has sounded better to me than The Beatles ever did. They just didn't write those work, but they make them sound better. If he would call his backing band Wings, I don't think anyone would have much of an issue with it at all.

[williambailey01]

AW fuck...now I'm majorly bummed!

Not only did I not see Guns n Roses...I never saw The Rolling Stones.

The Stones ceased to exist after (heart and soul of the band) Brian Jones' last concert with the band.

fawk!

Very bad analogy. It is NOT the same losing ONE member than losing almost ALL members. Above all when the only one member who stay NEVER was the only writter.

You need to go back and read the interview posted (which this thread is about),where it was stated by Alan Niven that Guns n Roses ended after the Farm Aid 1990 gig...Adler's last.

That's his viewpoint, he didn't say it had to be yours! If those original 5 members were to him Guns N' Roses then that's his opinon he is not saying you have to have the same one. If the current GNR lineup or Rolling Stone lineup you saw still embodied that band/that name for you, great.

Guns N' Roses doesnt exist as far as Im concerned. Guns N' Roses as far as Im concerned played their last show on April 7th 1990 in Indianapolis which was the last show live show at Farm Aid that the original line-up played. Thats my personal and particular viewpoint.

I don't understand why so many people (I'm talking generally now, not you particularly) are getting sand in their vagina because someone has an opinion that differs from theirs - "Niven's full of shit, he's bitter coz Axl fired him (yeah things went so well once Doug Goldstein took over), he doesn't know shit (yeah a guy who was right there knows less than the nobody posters on a gnr forum many who weren't evenn born then), why's he talking about Axl (umm maybe because the interviewer asked him his opinion on GNR and the name)".

Edited September 21, 2010 by williambailey01

[ThinkAboutYou]

I just want to say that the two best songs on Slash's album was the song with Izzy and the song with Steven.

Baby Can't Drive is NOT one of the best songs on that album.

It is

Edited September 21, 2010 by ThinkAboutYou

[AngelZ]

No, not fooling myself. I don't struggle with change either though. GnR changed. In the end, it's just a label. People might take notice because of the label. But if they hate the content of the package they will still move on.

I've changed a lot in the last 10 years, substantially so. Doesn't make me fake Orsys.

difference is your still Orsys

you didnt hire someone else and call them Orsys

even if they legally changed their name and told the whole world they were Orsys, are they? Are they YOU?

if someone loves you, should they also love the other Orsys because that's what they call themselves and it appears on a contract?

that's the heart of the matter for some fans

it wasnt just a name of a band, it was the particular collection of musicians who made up the band, who gave life to the name

it wasn't the band name that gave us the music we love, it was the combined talent of the individuals in it

[D..]

I just want to say that the two best songs on Slash's album was the song with Izzy and the song with Steven.

Baby Can't Drive is NOT one of the best songs on that album.

It is

I agree, I just listen to two songs from this album: beautiful dangerous and baby can't drive. I'm fed up with all the others. Not that good of an album anyway.

[Stro]

You know, if Axl hired Ashba and called him Slash, or hired Tommy and called him Duff, that'd be something totally different. You have a band like KISS that intentionally tries to deceive their fan base by having guys dress up like Peter and Ace and call them by their stage names and try to pass them off as the original guys. I get the feeling Niven feels the GNR situation is the same as that, which isn't the case at all.

[D..]

You know, if Axl hired Ashba and called him Slash, or hired Tommy and called him Duff, that'd be something totally different. You have a band like KISS that intentionally tries to deceive their fan base by having guys dress up like Peter and Ace and call them by their stage names and try to pass them off as the original guys. I get the feeling Niven feels the GNR situation is the same as that, which isn't the case at all.

In Kiss's case, it's another thing, it's funny actually because the guys wear a lot of make up, it's like, they put on super hero costumes when they go on stage. So it's like Batman & Robin, you know. Bruce Wayne and Terry Mc Guinis have both worn the costume of Batman, and they have been like 4 different Robin. It's not so much the person behind the mask but the idea of the person with the mask and costume that is important, you see what I mean?

[Orsys]

No, not fooling myself. I don't struggle with change either though. GnR changed. In the end, it's just a label. People might take notice because of the label. But if they hate the content of the package they will still move on.

I've changed a lot in the last 10 years, substantially so. Doesn't make me fake Orsys.

difference is your still Orsys

you didnt hire someone else and call them Orsys

even if they legally changed their name and told the whole world they were Orsys, are they? Are they YOU?

if someone loves you, should they also love the other Orsys because that's what they call themselves and it appears on a contract?

that's the heart of the matter for some fans

it wasnt just a name of a band, it was the particular collection of musicians who made up the band, who gave life to the name

it wasn't the band name that gave us the music we love, it was the combined talent of the individuals in it

If they say they are Orsys, they are Orsys.

The players in my life have changed completely in the past ten years - twice. I'm still Orsys. No one took that with them.

See, I actually think that you're right on this. But then I think everyone is right. If you think it isn't GnR then it isn't. If you think it is, then it is. You can think that Axl is out on tour with his band of merry men and they absolutely are not GnR, still love Axl and His Merry Men and you are right.

Cause it's all just opinion anyway.

[SunnyDRE]

I prefer "fake" Orsys myself.

For the love of god, I will never understand why people love "naturals."

Edited September 22, 2010 by SunnyDRE

[Stro]

You know, if Axl hired Ashba and called him Slash, or hired Tommy and called him Duff, that'd be something totally different. You have a band like KISS that intentionally tries to deceive their fan base by having guys dress up like Peter and Ace and call them by their stage names and try to pass them off as the original guys. I get the feeling Niven feels the GNR situation is the same as that, which isn't the case at all.

In Kiss's case, it's another thing, it's funny actually because the guys wear a lot of make up, it's like, they put on super hero costumes when they go on stage. So it's like Batman & Robin, you know. Bruce Wayne and Terry Mc Guinis have both worn the costume of Batman, and they have been like 4 different Robin. It's not so much the person behind the mask but the idea of the person with the mask and costume that is important, you see what I mean?

I completely disagree. When Peter and Ace originally left the band, their replacements had their own paint style and personas. After they reunited and were replaced again during various reunion/farewell tours, the replacements came out AS Ace and Peter, aping their styles, names, and movements. No announcement was made to the crowd that it wasn't Peter and Ace up there. They were still billed as "the original" band. They released an album last year with the paint style of Peter and Ace on the cover, implying that the original band created the album when that wasn't the case. This would be like Axl calling Ashba/Bumble/Bucket "Slash", Tommy "Duff", Fortus "Izzy", and Frank "Adler/Matt", and then having the same caricatures on the AFD cover on the cover for Chinese Democracy. THAT would be an issue. That seems to be what Niven feels this situation is like which it really isn't anything like that at all. Axl doesn't imply that the original members are playing with him, that they wrote the AFD/UYI songs, or that the original members wrote the latest album. As opposed to KISS that actually does do this.