Axl's Relationship With The Fans

[Trilogy]

No weaseling needed,I doubt seriously you operate on the same level,with.the same criticisms that are aimed at GNR from every angle on an everyday basis,so your argument really isn't comparable,its not necessary nor needed forGNR to attempt to justify every action to you or anyone else,it would only serve to be disputed,misquoted,misinterpreted, and serve as more fodder for the people that shovel shit and rumors nonstop,if you like the music,that is enough,don't expect GNR to jump when incessantly prodded and provoked.

Thanks Gunsguy. You're even talking like Axl now. Keep reaching bro, its quite funny to see what you will say just to protect the band

No, he's right. There would be many people misquoting, bitching and badgering Axl and the band even if they provided real time updates of everything they are doing. This band can't win that way. But you don't update for those people. You update for the real fans when there is something significant to update. Having said that, fans who are fed up with the way that GnR is, and it has been consistent for - well - since UYI days so 20 years(?), should really just move on. Whose fault is it that you stay in an abusive (use the term really lightly here) situation if you keep getting hit but you don't leave?

And just to ward off the 'abuse' debate, I didn't say whose fault is it that you are abused, but whose fault is it that you stay in an abusive situation. Big difference.

Orsys with all due respect, please look back on some of the topics I have posted since i became a member here. You will see that I'm a pretty big fan of the band and am only negative maybe 20% of the time. But when there is a thread about AXL'S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FANS I will be truthful and speak my mind on how he handles it. Doesn't mean I'm bitter about the band as a whole.

It also doesn't make your opinion any more relevant or meaningful to those with opposing opinions,

orsys understands where I'm coming from,others do as wellu

Who said my opinion was more relevant or meaningful?? I certainly did not. Are you seeing things again?? Things not all peachy in Guns N' Roses land for you??

Don't put your words in my mouth,I'm not the one Bitching and moaning about the problems that seem to be plaguing you,I'm the happy camper that is satisfied with the current state of affairs in GNR land,I'm satisfied and respect them for not caving in to situations nor complaining detractors in fan disguises

[Young_Gun]

No weaseling needed,I doubt seriously you operate on the same level,with.the same criticisms that are aimed at GNR from every angle on an everyday basis,so your argument really isn't comparable,its not necessary nor needed forGNR to attempt to justify every action to you or anyone else,it would only serve to be disputed,misquoted,misinterpreted, and serve as more fodder for the people that shovel shit and rumors nonstop,if you like the music,that is enough,don't expect GNR to jump when incessantly prodded and provoked.

Thanks Gunsguy. You're even talking like Axl now. Keep reaching bro, its quite funny to see what you will say just to protect the band

No, he's right. There would be many people misquoting, bitching and badgering Axl and the band even if they provided real time updates of everything they are doing. This band can't win that way. But you don't update for those people. You update for the real fans when there is something significant to update. Having said that, fans who are fed up with the way that GnR is, and it has been consistent for - well - since UYI days so 20 years(?), should really just move on. Whose fault is it that you stay in an abusive (use the term really lightly here) situation if you keep getting hit but you don't leave?

And just to ward off the 'abuse' debate, I didn't say whose fault is it that you are abused, but whose fault is it that you stay in an abusive situation. Big difference.

Orsys with all due respect, please look back on some of the topics I have posted since i became a member here. You will see that I'm a pretty big fan of the band and am only negative maybe 20% of the time. But when there is a thread about AXL'S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FANS I will be truthful and speak my mind on how he handles it. Doesn't mean I'm bitter about the band as a whole.

It also doesn't make your opinion any more relevant or meaningful to those with opposing opinions,

orsys understands where I'm coming from,others do as wellu

Who said my opinion was more relevant or meaningful?? I certainly did not. Are you seeing things again?? Things not all peachy in Guns N' Roses land for you??

Don't put your words in my mouth,I'm not the one Bitching and moaning about the problems that seem to be plaguing you,I'm the happy camper that is satisfied with the current state of affairs in GNR land,I'm satisfied and respect them for not caving in to situations nor complaining detractors in fan disguises

Oh but clearly "relevant and meaningful" were on your mind whilst replying to me, even though i did not imply that at all. Is everything ok?? Current state of Guns must be exciting for you yeah? Yeah, those dam detractors in fan disguises, what kind of world are we living in, Guns have enemies everywhere, gotta be careful. But its cool, you are here, to protect. Please respond

I'm glad there aren't a trilogy of Trilogys

Edited April 3, 2011 by Young_Gun

[Guest gunns5]

No weaseling needed,I doubt seriously you operate on the same level,with.the same criticisms that are aimed at GNR from every angle on an everyday basis,so your argument really isn't comparable,its not necessary nor needed forGNR to attempt to justify every action to you or anyone else,it would only serve to be disputed,misquoted,misinterpreted, and serve as more fodder for the people that shovel shit and rumors nonstop,if you like the music,that is enough,don't expect GNR to jump when incessantly prodded and provoked.

Thanks Gunsguy. You're even talking like Axl now. Keep reaching bro, its quite funny to see what you will say just to protect the band

No, he's right. There would be many people misquoting, bitching and badgering Axl and the band even if they provided real time updates of everything they are doing. This band can't win that way. But you don't update for those people. You update for the real fans when there is something significant to update. Having said that, fans who are fed up with the way that GnR is, and it has been consistent for - well - since UYI days so 20 years(?), should really just move on. Whose fault is it that you stay in an abusive (use the term really lightly here) situation if you keep getting hit but you don't leave?

And just to ward off the 'abuse' debate, I didn't say whose fault is it that you are abused, but whose fault is it that you stay in an abusive situation. Big difference.

Orsys with all due respect, please look back on some of the topics I have posted since i became a member here. You will see that I'm a pretty big fan of the band and am only negative maybe 20% of the time. But when there is a thread about AXL'S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FANS I will be truthful and speak my mind on how he handles it. Doesn't mean I'm bitter about the band as a whole.

It also doesn't make your opinion any more relevant or meaningful to those with opposing opinions,

orsys understands where I'm coming from,others do as wellu

Who said my opinion was more relevant or meaningful?? I certainly did not. Are you seeing things again?? Things not all peachy in Guns N' Roses land for you??

Don't put your words in my mouth,I'm not the one Bitching and moaning about the problems that seem to be plaguing you,I'm the happy camper that is satisfied with the current state of affairs in GNR land,I'm satisfied and respect them for not caving in to situations nor complaining detractors in fan disguises

someone get this guy some party passes, hes putting in some heavy overtime for them.

[Trilogy]

No weaseling needed,I doubt seriously you operate on the same level,with.the same criticisms that are aimed at GNR from every angle on an everyday basis,so your argument really isn't comparable,its not necessary nor needed forGNR to attempt to justify every action to you or anyone else,it would only serve to be disputed,misquoted,misinterpreted, and serve as more fodder for the people that shovel shit and rumors nonstop,if you like the music,that is enough,don't expect GNR to jump when incessantly prodded and provoked.

Thanks Gunsguy. You're even talking like Axl now. Keep reaching bro, its quite funny to see what you will say just to protect the band

No, he's right. There would be many people misquoting, bitching and badgering Axl and the band even if they provided real time updates of everything they are doing. This band can't win that way. But you don't update for those people. You update for the real fans when there is something significant to update. Having said that, fans who are fed up with the way that GnR is, and it has been consistent for - well - since UYI days so 20 years(?), should really just move on. Whose fault is it that you stay in an abusive (use the term really lightly here) situation if you keep getting hit but you don't leave?

And just to ward off the 'abuse' debate, I didn't say whose fault is it that you are abused, but whose fault is it that you stay in an abusive situation. Big difference.

Orsys with all due respect, please look back on some of the topics I have posted since i became a member here. You will see that I'm a pretty big fan of the band and am only negative maybe 20% of the time. But when there is a thread about AXL'S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE FANS I will be truthful and speak my mind on how he handles it. Doesn't mean I'm bitter about the band as a whole.

It also doesn't make your opinion any more relevant or meaningful to those with opposing opinions,

orsys understands where I'm coming from,others do as wellu

Who said my opinion was more relevant or meaningful?? I certainly did not. Are you seeing things again?? Things not all peachy in Guns N' Roses land for you??

Don't put your words in my mouth,I'm not the one Bitching and moaning about the problems that seem to be plaguing you,I'm the happy camper that is satisfied with the current state of affairs in GNR land,I'm satisfied and respect them for not caving in to situations nor complaining detractors in fan disguises

someone get this guy some party passes, hes putting in some heavy overtime for them.

No thanks,I'm merely stating my opinions and convictions

no need for sarcastic failed attempts at humor,I have obviously made my stand crystal clear,

No need to reply to the same redundancy and idiocy

[AngelZ]

the forums been around since 2002, u can prob count on a hand or two how many of the old posters still frequent here

defending Axl now isnt all that impressive after getting cd, a world tour n tweets, try doing that during 3 years of silence

of course Axl has alienated many fans over the years, his relationship with them could be much better

just because he doesnt owe us anything doesnt make that any less true

not sure why people who dont know him personally take that as an insult

as its always pointed out, Axl doent give a shit about u, whether its to bash him or defend him, were all gonna get the same treatment

swallowing koolaid doesnt earn anyone extra points

[Trilogy]

the forums been around since 2002, u can prob count on a hand or two how many of the old posters still frequent here

defending Axl now isnt all that impressive after getting cd, a world tour n tweets, try doing that during 3 years of silence

of course Axl has alienated many fans over the years, his relationship with them could be much better

just because he doesnt owe us anything doesnt make that any less true

not sure why people who dont know him personally take that as an insult

as its always pointed out, Axl doent give a shit about u, whether its to bash him or defend him, were all gonna get the same treatment

swallowing koolaid doesnt earn anyone extra points

Nor does acting like an internet expert,my point was that just maybe the fans added to the rift,there have been unnecessarily cruel remarks made,

And I find it amazing you have psychic abilities to speak for people you don't even know,look at the shitty treatment some of the posters dealt the band members that actually showed up here,its not all one sided as some would have people think

[grigori]

Sorry, wasn't using "you" specifically, used it generally. There is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways the band could be doing things or disagreeing with some of the actions. After all, Axl said himself of his discussion with Spuffy "Friendly banter by those with opposing views. " But for some, expecting otherwise all the time doesn't make sense to me. When i say it's time to move on, I direct that to those people who feel fed up by the actions, or inactions, of this band and need more of a relationship with the bands they follow. With this band, it - ain't - going - to - change.

Yeah, well... we aren't going to stop the complain train either. The fans are presenting valid criticisms, and it's pretty mutual. You telling people to "move on" is kind of condescending and hypocritical. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong and should move on.

Moving on...

[dalsh327]

A lot of artists don't have relationships with their fans.

Everyone knows he should have made a couple of high profile appearances on late night TV 2 years ago. People don't watch MTV anymore. If someone has new music coming out, they usually go on late night and promote it, or on an awards show.

[AngelZ]

the forums been around since 2002, u can prob count on a hand or two how many of the old posters still frequent here

defending Axl now isnt all that impressive after getting cd, a world tour n tweets, try doing that during 3 years of silence

of course Axl has alienated many fans over the years, his relationship with them could be much better

just because he doesnt owe us anything doesnt make that any less true

not sure why people who dont know him personally take that as an insult

as its always pointed out, Axl doent give a shit about u, whether its to bash him or defend him, were all gonna get the same treatment

swallowing koolaid doesnt earn anyone extra points

Nor does acting like an internet expert,my point was that just maybe the fans added to the rift,there have been unnecessarily cruel remarks made,

And I find it amazing you have psychic abilities to speak for people you don't even know,look at the shitty treatment some of the posters dealt the band members that actually showed up here,its not all one sided as some would have people think

u mean the same psychic abilities you possess to speak on behalf of Axl Rose?

if u only care about ur opinion why do other peoples opinions matter, no one is telling u to leave ur world of make believe

the few members who were rude to Ron dont represent all the people who arent happy with certain aspects of this band

much like the stalker in Axls kitchen doesnt represent all the fans who praise him blindly

[W. Axl Kev]

Having been a fan for over 20 years, I really don't get how fans expect anything else. If you're upset that Guns/Axl doesn't do what you want them/him to do, then you don't understand how this band operates. What blows my mind is how certain "fans" feel like we're living in the dark times of GNR productivity. Obviously you weren't around for the '94 to '01 period where all fans got were a fax about Slash leaving, a mug shot of Axl, one interview on MTV, and a decent but half baked song (Oh My God). In the last two years we actually got Chinese Democracy and a year long world tour to promote it. Maybe it didn't follow what you wanted, but if I think back to when I was 16 this has been an unbelievable time to be a GNR fan.

All Axl and the band owes me as a fan is a hell of a show when I buy and ticket and their best effort when they choose to release new album. Other than that, they can do whatever they want; it really has no impact on my life. As Axl once said about those who wait for Chinese Democracy, go live your life. Yeah it sucks when some of the things intended do not come to fruition, but I don't remember Axl/GNR signing anything with their fans that holds them to it.

I don't know Axl or anyone else in the band personally, so I can't speak to their character. But I seriously doubt that their intentions is to purposely tease fans because it gets them off. The organization strikes me as one of good intentions, but for whatever the reasons are, just don't happen. Thankfully for me, I have my own life to worry about. I suggest you do the same.

Cheers,

Andrew

Excellently put. Axl has no moral obligation to us whatsoever. He's just a guy and so am I.

[Trilogy]

the forums been around since 2002, u can prob count on a hand or two how many of the old posters still frequent here

defending Axl now isnt all that impressive after getting cd, a world tour n tweets, try doing that during 3 years of silence

of course Axl has alienated many fans over the years, his relationship with them could be much better

just because he doesnt owe us anything doesnt make that any less true

not sure why people who dont know him personally take that as an insult

as its always pointed out, Axl doent give a shit about u, whether its to bash him or defend him, were all gonna get the same treatment

swallowing koolaid doesnt earn anyone extra points

Nor does acting like an internet expert,my point was that just maybe the fans added to the rift,there have been unnecessarily cruel remarks made,

And I find it amazing you have psychic abilities to speak for people you don't even know,look at the shitty treatment some of the posters dealt the band members that actually showed up here,its not all one sided as some would have people think

u mean the same psychic abilities you possess to speak on behalf of Axl Rose?

if u only care about ur opinion why do other peoples opinions matter, no one is telling u to leave ur world of make believe

the few members who were rude to Ron dont represent all the people who arent happy with certain aspects of this band

much like the stalker in Axls kitchen doesnt represent all the fans who praise him blindly

Yeah,MY world is delusion but yours is hunky dory?get

Real,ppl were rude to not only Ron,but also axl,and fernando,some of the comments made on this forum and others are uncalled for

Words hurt and wound sometimes,and don't assume I'm speaking for anyone except myself

Having been a fan for over 20 years, I really don't get how fans expect anything else. If you're upset that Guns/Axl doesn't do what you want them/him to do, then you don't understand how this band operates. What blows my mind is how certain "fans" feel like we're living in the dark times of GNR productivity. Obviously you weren't around for the '94 to '01 period where all fans got were a fax about Slash leaving, a mug shot of Axl, one interview on MTV, and a decent but half baked song (Oh My God). In the last two years we actually got Chinese Democracy and a year long world tour to promote it. Maybe it didn't follow what you wanted, but if I think back to when I was 16 this has been an unbelievable time to be a GNR fan.

All Axl and the band owes me as a fan is a hell of a show when I buy and ticket and their best effort when they choose to release new album. Other than that, they can do whatever they want; it really has no impact on my life. As Axl once said about those who wait for Chinese Democracy, go live your life. Yeah it sucks when some of the things intended do not come to fruition, but I don't remember Axl/GNR signing anything with their fans that holds them to it.

I don't know Axl or anyone else in the band personally, so I can't speak to their character. But I seriously doubt that their intentions is to purposely tease fans because it gets them off. The organization strikes me as one of good intentions, but for whatever the reasons are, just don't happen. Thankfully for me, I have my own life to worry about. I suggest you do the same.

Cheers,

Andrew

Excellently put. Axl has no moral obligation to us whatsoever. He's just a guy and so am I.

Right on !

[Black Horse]

the forums been around since 2002, u can prob count on a hand or two how many of the old posters still frequent here

defending Axl now isnt all that impressive after getting cd, a world tour n tweets, try doing that during 3 years of silence

of course Axl has alienated many fans over the years, his relationship with them could be much better

just because he doesnt owe us anything doesnt make that any less true

not sure why people who dont know him personally take that as an insult

as its always pointed out, Axl doent give a shit about u, whether its to bash him or defend him, were all gonna get the same treatment

swallowing koolaid doesnt earn anyone extra points

Let me tell you that many of those old posters you are referring to stopped coming here because some were banned by someone on a power trip, or they stopped coming because they got sick of this place and of its stupid posters ( not all of them, obviously) or they just have a life and don´t have time to spend in here.

If you are a fan you are a fan because of the music not because of how much the artist talks or doesn´t talk. And the fact that people don´t spend too much time here defending the band or they stop coming doesn´t mean they stopped being fans.

[Marj]

Real,ppl were rude to not only Ron,but also axl,and fernando,some of the comments made on this forum and others are uncalled for

Words hurt and wound sometimes,and don't assume I'm speaking for anyone except myself

I 100% agree with that.

I guess reading forums is like reading mind, you sometimes see wonderfull sweet things...at other times things you shouldn't read!

[Orsys]

Sorry, wasn't using "you" specifically, used it generally. There is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways the band could be doing things or disagreeing with some of the actions. After all, Axl said himself of his discussion with Spuffy "Friendly banter by those with opposing views. " But for some, expecting otherwise all the time doesn't make sense to me. When i say it's time to move on, I direct that to those people who feel fed up by the actions, or inactions, of this band and need more of a relationship with the bands they follow. With this band, it - ain't - going - to - change.

Yeah, well... we aren't going to stop the complain train either. The fans are presenting valid criticisms, and it's pretty mutual. You telling people to "move on" is kind of condescending and hypocritical. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong and should move on.

Moving on...

Condescending? Sorry you took it that way, wasn't delivered that way. Hypocrital? Don't think you can find much that I've posted that is constantly expecting something the band has never given - like doing things the way I want them to do it. Valid criticisms, if you re-read my post, you'll see that there is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways of doing things. So I can't say as I understand what you're talking about.

To me it would be no different expecting Axl to be on time and put out music every two or three years than to start bitching that he should have started a perfume line by now. He hasn't done it for the past 20 years, why expect it now? If it's that important to me I'd move on to another artist that is more in keeping with my expectations. I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

[Blunoze]

the forums been around since 2002, u can prob count on a hand or two how many of the old posters still frequent here

defending Axl now isnt all that impressive after getting cd, a world tour n tweets, try doing that during 3 years of silence

of course Axl has alienated many fans over the years, his relationship with them could be much better

just because he doesnt owe us anything doesnt make that any less true

not sure why people who dont know him personally take that as an insult

as its always pointed out, Axl doent give a shit about u, whether its to bash him or defend him, were all gonna get the same treatment

swallowing koolaid doesnt earn anyone extra points

Nor does acting like an internet expert,my point was that just maybe the fans added to the rift,there have been unnecessarily cruel remarks made,

And I find it amazing you have psychic abilities to speak for people you don't even know,look at the shitty treatment some of the posters dealt the band members that actually showed up here,its not all one sided as some would have people think

u mean the same psychic abilities you possess to speak on behalf of Axl Rose?

if u only care about ur opinion why do other peoples opinions matter, no one is telling u to leave ur world of make believe

the few members who were rude to Ron dont represent all the people who arent happy with certain aspects of this band

much like the stalker in Axls kitchen doesnt represent all the fans who praise him blindly

Yeah,MY world is delusion but yours is hunky dory?get

Real,ppl were rude to not only Ron,but also axl,and fernando,some of the comments made on this forum and others are uncalled for

Words hurt and wound sometimes,and don't assume I'm speaking for anyone except myself

Having been a fan for over 20 years, I really don't get how fans expect anything else. If you're upset that Guns/Axl doesn't do what you want them/him to do, then you don't understand how this band operates. What blows my mind is how certain "fans" feel like we're living in the dark times of GNR productivity. Obviously you weren't around for the '94 to '01 period where all fans got were a fax about Slash leaving, a mug shot of Axl, one interview on MTV, and a decent but half baked song (Oh My God). In the last two years we actually got Chinese Democracy and a year long world tour to promote it. Maybe it didn't follow what you wanted, but if I think back to when I was 16 this has been an unbelievable time to be a GNR fan.

All Axl and the band owes me as a fan is a hell of a show when I buy and ticket and their best effort when they choose to release new album. Other than that, they can do whatever they want; it really has no impact on my life. As Axl once said about those who wait for Chinese Democracy, go live your life. Yeah it sucks when some of the things intended do not come to fruition, but I don't remember Axl/GNR signing anything with their fans that holds them to it.

I don't know Axl or anyone else in the band personally, so I can't speak to their character. But I seriously doubt that their intentions is to purposely tease fans because it gets them off. The organization strikes me as one of good intentions, but for whatever the reasons are, just don't happen. Thankfully for me, I have my own life to worry about. I suggest you do the same.

Cheers,

Andrew

Excellently put. Axl has no moral obligation to us whatsoever. He's just a guy and so am I.

Right on !

The problem is, you are fundamentally missing the whole point of the original post. What it says, is that its not respectful to make statements about whats happening with the band, and then go quiet. We aren't fucking children, we know that its in business, its not possible to always meet your deadlines. But what is expected, is some common courtesy. Its not difficult to make a statement apologising for a delay to something, or at least explaining what has happened to a degree. Axl Rose is just a human being, not a god. He is not exempt from showing the fundamental basics of humanity, such as showing some decency to those that have paid for his entire fucking life!

I really don't understand people like you, that advocate selfish behaviour as acceptable. Nobody is saying he has to meet his promises, just show some consideration to those who's hopes he got up, by apologising for whatever the delay might be, or explaining if it is something out of his control. Is it really so fucking difficult to do that?

Edited April 3, 2011 by Blunoze

[grigori]

Sorry, wasn't using "you" specifically, used it generally. There is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways the band could be doing things or disagreeing with some of the actions. After all, Axl said himself of his discussion with Spuffy "Friendly banter by those with opposing views. " But for some, expecting otherwise all the time doesn't make sense to me. When i say it's time to move on, I direct that to those people who feel fed up by the actions, or inactions, of this band and need more of a relationship with the bands they follow. With this band, it - ain't - going - to - change.

Yeah, well... we aren't going to stop the complain train either. The fans are presenting valid criticisms, and it's pretty mutual. You telling people to "move on" is kind of condescending and hypocritical. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong and should move on.

Moving on...

Condescending? Sorry you took it that way, wasn't delivered that way. Hypocrital? Don't think you can find much that I've posted that is constantly expecting something the band has never given - like doing things the way I want them to do it. Valid criticisms, if you re-read my post, you'll see that there is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways of doing things. So I can't say as I understand what you're talking about.

To me it would be no different expecting Axl to be on time and put out music every two or three years than to start bitching that he should have started a perfume line by now. He hasn't done it for the past 20 years, why expect it now? If it's that important to me I'd move on to another artist that is more in keeping with my expectations. I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

Hey, you're the one that used the buzzword "Move On". There's a reason that argument, that phrase, that logic never worked to Groghan's advantage. It is condescending and I don't see how it isn't biased and myopic. It's a pretty arrogant thing to say to somebody that has an opinion. May as well tell them to shut up. And just saying at the axiomatic level that you weren't being condescending by saying "wasn't delivered that way" is still just your opinion, just really qualify your statement as neutral. You were being condescending. "Move On" is used now because d "mullet", "hater" over the years, and other dismissive identifiers have failed to really stereotype people that have a different point of view. It is very hypocritical. The "move on" mantra swings both ways like Andy Dick.

I'm not going to re-read your post. You said people should "move on" and that's that. Now you're saying you don't understand why people don't move on? Well that is just as insulting. Pretty close-minded. Pretty stupid really. Purely glib and dismissive of other people's intelligent thoughts.

Move On? No U.

I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

What do you "require" people to do? You are arrogant. Maybe you can't see how your reflect from your perspective but that sentence alone is degrading.

[Orsys]

Sorry, wasn't using "you" specifically, used it generally. There is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways the band could be doing things or disagreeing with some of the actions. After all, Axl said himself of his discussion with Spuffy "Friendly banter by those with opposing views. " But for some, expecting otherwise all the time doesn't make sense to me. When i say it's time to move on, I direct that to those people who feel fed up by the actions, or inactions, of this band and need more of a relationship with the bands they follow. With this band, it - ain't - going - to - change.

Yeah, well... we aren't going to stop the complain train either. The fans are presenting valid criticisms, and it's pretty mutual. You telling people to "move on" is kind of condescending and hypocritical. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong and should move on.

Moving on...

Condescending? Sorry you took it that way, wasn't delivered that way. Hypocrital? Don't think you can find much that I've posted that is constantly expecting something the band has never given - like doing things the way I want them to do it. Valid criticisms, if you re-read my post, you'll see that there is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways of doing things. So I can't say as I understand what you're talking about.

To me it would be no different expecting Axl to be on time and put out music every two or three years than to start bitching that he should have started a perfume line by now. He hasn't done it for the past 20 years, why expect it now? If it's that important to me I'd move on to another artist that is more in keeping with my expectations. I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

Hey, you're the one that used the buzzword "Move On". There's a reason that argument, that phrase, that logic never worked to Groghan's advantage. It is condescending and I don't see how it isn't biased and myopic. It's a pretty arrogant thing to say to somebody that has an opinion. May as well tell them to shut up. And just saying at the axiomatic level that you weren't being condescending by saying "wasn't delivered that way" is still just your opinion, just really qualify your statement as neutral. You were being condescending. "Move On" is used now because d "mullet", "hater" over the years, and other dismissive identifiers have failed to really stereotype people that have a different point of view. It is very hypocritical. The "move on" mantra swings both ways like Andy Dick.

I'm not going to re-read your post. You said people should "move on" and that's that. Now you're saying you don't understand why people don't move on? Well that is just as insulting. Pretty close-minded. Pretty stupid really. Purely glib and dismissive of other people's intelligent thoughts.

Move On? No U.

I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

What do you "require" people to do? You are arrogant. Maybe you can't see how your reflect from your perspective but that sentence alone is degrading.

I cannot be held responsible for how you take my posts.

I require nothing from anyone on this board. And no one is required to take orders from me - which in the end is my point anyway.

It was all my opinion. Never said it wasn't.

Why so tense?

[AngelZ]

Let me tell you that many of those old posters you are referring to stopped coming here because some were banned by someone on a power trip, or they stopped coming because they got sick of this place and of its stupid posters ( not all of them, obviously) or they just have a life and don´t have time to spend in here.

If you are a fan you are a fan because of the music not because of how much the artist talks or doesn´t talk. And the fact that people don´t spend too much time here defending the band or they stop coming doesn´t mean they stopped being fans.

yea all those reasons are true

except u forgot to mention the large demographic of people who left because they dont give a shit about Axl or his band anymore

n id argue fans obviously do appreciate when a band talks to them, the forums exploded when Axl came to chat

the mood of this place was the best its ever been, before or since

to think that a little more communication wouldnt make a positive impact on many fans is putting ur head in the sand

The problem is, you are fundamentally missing the whole point of the original post. What it says, is that its not respectful to make statements about whats happening with the band, and then go quiet. We aren't fucking children, we know that its in business, its not possible to always meet your deadlines. But what is expected, is some common courtesy. Its not difficult to make a statement apologising for a delay to something, or at least explaining what has happened to a degree. Axl Rose is just a human being, not a god. He is not exempt from showing the fundamental basics of humanity, such as showing some decency to those that have paid for his entire fucking life!

I really don't understand people like you, that advocate selfish behaviour as acceptable. Nobody is saying he has to meet his promises, just show some consideration to those who's hopes he got up, by apologising for whatever the delay might be, or explaining if it is something out of his control. Is it really so fucking difficult to do that?

Axl doesnt have a problem keeping in touch with fans by tweeting or signing autographs when hes touring n has tickets to sell for a show

so its not that hes incapable of showing people some courtesy

he chooses to do it only when it benefits him financially

Sorry, wasn't using "you" specifically, used it generally. There is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways the band could be doing things or disagreeing with some of the actions. After all, Axl said himself of his discussion with Spuffy "Friendly banter by those with opposing views. " But for some, expecting otherwise all the time doesn't make sense to me. When i say it's time to move on, I direct that to those people who feel fed up by the actions, or inactions, of this band and need more of a relationship with the bands they follow. With this band, it - ain't - going - to - change.

Yeah, well... we aren't going to stop the complain train either. The fans are presenting valid criticisms, and it's pretty mutual. You telling people to "move on" is kind of condescending and hypocritical. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong and should move on.

Moving on...

Condescending? Sorry you took it that way, wasn't delivered that way. Hypocrital? Don't think you can find much that I've posted that is constantly expecting something the band has never given - like doing things the way I want them to do it. Valid criticisms, if you re-read my post, you'll see that there is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways of doing things. So I can't say as I understand what you're talking about.

To me it would be no different expecting Axl to be on time and put out music every two or three years than to start bitching that he should have started a perfume line by now. He hasn't done it for the past 20 years, why expect it now? If it's that important to me I'd move on to another artist that is more in keeping with my expectations. I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

Hey, you're the one that used the buzzword "Move On". There's a reason that argument, that phrase, that logic never worked to Groghan's advantage. It is condescending and I don't see how it isn't biased and myopic. It's a pretty arrogant thing to say to somebody that has an opinion. May as well tell them to shut up. And just saying at the axiomatic level that you weren't being condescending by saying "wasn't delivered that way" is still just your opinion, just really qualify your statement as neutral. You were being condescending. "Move On" is used now because d "mullet", "hater" over the years, and other dismissive identifiers have failed to really stereotype people that have a different point of view. It is very hypocritical. The "move on" mantra swings both ways like Andy Dick.

I'm not going to re-read your post. You said people should "move on" and that's that. Now you're saying you don't understand why people don't move on? Well that is just as insulting. Pretty close-minded. Pretty stupid really. Purely glib and dismissive of other people's intelligent thoughts.

Move On? No U.

I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

What do you "require" people to do? You are arrogant. Maybe you can't see how your reflect from your perspective but that sentence alone is degrading.

have to agree

the whole moving on-find another band comes off condescending n judgemental

as if having hundreds or thousands of posts defending someone u dont know is a much better way to waste ones time on the internet

instead of debatng an opposing viewpoint they turn to psychoanalysis and offer advice on what one should do with their life

its quite hilarious actually

i could come up with my own opinions as to the type of people who come here day in and day out to praise a complete stranger who doesnt know them, respect them, or even like them , n offer some advice too

except iid rather discuss the topic than waste my time with the holier than thou attitude

[Orsys]

Let me tell you that many of those old posters you are referring to stopped coming here because some were banned by someone on a power trip, or they stopped coming because they got sick of this place and of its stupid posters ( not all of them, obviously) or they just have a life and don´t have time to spend in here.

If you are a fan you are a fan because of the music not because of how much the artist talks or doesn´t talk. And the fact that people don´t spend too much time here defending the band or they stop coming doesn´t mean they stopped being fans.

yea all those reasons are true

except u forgot to mention the large demographic of people who left because they dont give a shit about Axl or his band anymore

n id argue fans obviously do appreciate when a band talks to them, the forums exploded when Axl came to chat

the mood of this place was the best its ever been, before or since

to think that a little more communication wouldnt make a positive impact on many fans is putting ur head in the sand

The problem is, you are fundamentally missing the whole point of the original post. What it says, is that its not respectful to make statements about whats happening with the band, and then go quiet. We aren't fucking children, we know that its in business, its not possible to always meet your deadlines. But what is expected, is some common courtesy. Its not difficult to make a statement apologising for a delay to something, or at least explaining what has happened to a degree. Axl Rose is just a human being, not a god. He is not exempt from showing the fundamental basics of humanity, such as showing some decency to those that have paid for his entire fucking life!

I really don't understand people like you, that advocate selfish behaviour as acceptable. Nobody is saying he has to meet his promises, just show some consideration to those who's hopes he got up, by apologising for whatever the delay might be, or explaining if it is something out of his control. Is it really so fucking difficult to do that?

Axl doesnt have a problem keeping in touch with fans by tweeting or signing autographs when hes touring n has tickets to sell for a show

so its not that hes incapable of showing people some courtesy

he chooses to do it only when it benefits him financially

Sorry, wasn't using "you" specifically, used it generally. There is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways the band could be doing things or disagreeing with some of the actions. After all, Axl said himself of his discussion with Spuffy "Friendly banter by those with opposing views. " But for some, expecting otherwise all the time doesn't make sense to me. When i say it's time to move on, I direct that to those people who feel fed up by the actions, or inactions, of this band and need more of a relationship with the bands they follow. With this band, it - ain't - going - to - change.

Yeah, well... we aren't going to stop the complain train either. The fans are presenting valid criticisms, and it's pretty mutual. You telling people to "move on" is kind of condescending and hypocritical. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong and should move on.

Moving on...

Condescending? Sorry you took it that way, wasn't delivered that way. Hypocrital? Don't think you can find much that I've posted that is constantly expecting something the band has never given - like doing things the way I want them to do it. Valid criticisms, if you re-read my post, you'll see that there is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways of doing things. So I can't say as I understand what you're talking about.

To me it would be no different expecting Axl to be on time and put out music every two or three years than to start bitching that he should have started a perfume line by now. He hasn't done it for the past 20 years, why expect it now? If it's that important to me I'd move on to another artist that is more in keeping with my expectations. I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

Hey, you're the one that used the buzzword "Move On". There's a reason that argument, that phrase, that logic never worked to Groghan's advantage. It is condescending and I don't see how it isn't biased and myopic. It's a pretty arrogant thing to say to somebody that has an opinion. May as well tell them to shut up. And just saying at the axiomatic level that you weren't being condescending by saying "wasn't delivered that way" is still just your opinion, just really qualify your statement as neutral. You were being condescending. "Move On" is used now because d "mullet", "hater" over the years, and other dismissive identifiers have failed to really stereotype people that have a different point of view. It is very hypocritical. The "move on" mantra swings both ways like Andy Dick.

I'm not going to re-read your post. You said people should "move on" and that's that. Now you're saying you don't understand why people don't move on? Well that is just as insulting. Pretty close-minded. Pretty stupid really. Purely glib and dismissive of other people's intelligent thoughts.

Move On? No U.

I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

What do you "require" people to do? You are arrogant. Maybe you can't see how your reflect from your perspective but that sentence alone is degrading.

have to agree

the whole moving on-find another band comes off condescending n judgemental

as if having hundreds or thousands of posts defending someone u dont know is a much better way to waste ones time on the internet

instead of debatng an opposing viewpoint they turn to psychoanalysis and offer advice on what one should do with their life

its quite hilarious actually

i could come up with my own opinions as to the type of people who come here day in and day out to praise a complete stranger who doesnt know them, respect them, or even like them , n offer some advice too

except iid rather discuss the topic than waste my time with the holier than thou attitude

It is interesting to me how some people here impose meaning on my posts to try to make them arrogant, condescending and holier than though in an effort to paint me as those things. Most seemed to get my point, some didn't. I didn't argue for the band, but for the fan. It is futile to want this band to behave the way you wish them to behave. When I say 'move on' I mean that perhaps they didn't earn your efforts on the subject of changing the way they operate (ie staying in the abusive relationship). Move on could mean to a band who listens and considers your opinion, or move on to another subject on this band, or move on and have a peanut butter sandwich. Who cares? Or don't move on. What is it with those words that got you two so riled up? But don't mistake that you gave the words the power to offend, not me. I use them a dozen times a day at least - move on to the dishes, move on to dinner, move on, move on, move on. There hopefully they have lost some of their offensive power.

[Trilogy]

Let me tell you that many of those old posters you are referring to stopped coming here because some were banned by someone on a power trip, or they stopped coming because they got sick of this place and of its stupid posters ( not all of them, obviously) or they just have a life and don´t have time to spend in here.

If you are a fan you are a fan because of the music not because of how much the artist talks or doesn´t talk. And the fact that people don´t spend too much time here defending the band or they stop coming doesn´t mean they stopped being fans.

yea all those reasons are true

except u forgot to mention thye large demographic of people who left because they dont give a shit about Axl or his band anymore

n id argue fans obviously do appreciate when a band talks to them, the forums exploded when Axl came to chat

the mood of this place was the best its ever been, before or since

to think that a little more communication wouldnt make a positive impact on many fans is putting ur head in the sand

The problem is, you are fundamentally missing the whole point of the original post. What it says, is that its not respectful to make statements about whats happening with the band, and then go quiet. We aren't fucking children, we know that its in business, its not possible to always meet your deadlines. But what is expected, is some common courtesy. Its not difficult to make a statement apologising for a delay to something, or at least explaining what has happened to a degree. Axl Rose is just a human being, not a god. He is not exempt from showing the fundamental basics of humanity, such as showing some decency to those that have paid for his entire fucking life!

I really don't understand people like you, that advocate selfish behaviour as acceptable. Nobody is saying he has to meet his promises, just show some consideration to those who's hopes he got up, by apologising for whatever the delay might be, or explaining if it is something out of his control. Is it really so fucking difficult to do that?

Axl doesnt have a problem keeping in touch with fans by tweeting or signing autographs when hes touring n has tickets to sell for a show

so its not that hes incapable of showing people some courtesy

he chooses to do it only when it benefits him financially

Sorry, wasn't using "you" specifically, used it generally. There is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways the band could be doing things or disagreeing with some of the actions. After all, Axl said himself of his discussion with Spuffy "Friendly banter by those with opposing views. " But for some, expecting otherwise all the time doesn't make sense to me. When i say it's time to move on, I direct that to those people who feel fed up by the actions, or inactions, of this band and need more of a relationship with the bands they follow. With this band, it - ain't - going - to - change.

Yeah, well... we aren't going to stop the complain train either. The fans are presenting valid criticisms, and it's pretty mutual. You telling people to "move on" is kind of condescending and hypocritical. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are wrong and should move on.

Moving on...

Condescending? Sorry you took it that way, wasn't delivered that way. Hypocrital? Don't think you can find much that I've posted that is constantly expecting something the band has never given - like doing things the way I want them to do it. Valid criticisms, if you re-read my post, you'll see that there is nothing wrong with suggesting better ways of doing things. So I can't say as I understand what you're talking about.

To me it would be no different expecting Axl to be on time and put out music every two or three years than to start bitching that he should have started a perfume line by now. He hasn't done it for the past 20 years, why expect it now? If it's that important to me I'd move on to another artist that is more in keeping with my expectations. I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

Hey, you're the one that used the buzzword "Move On". There's a reason that argument, that phrase, that logic never worked to Groghan's advantage. It is condescending and I don't see how it isn't biased and myopic. It's a pretty arrogant thing to say to somebody that has an opinion. May as well tell them to shut up. And just saying at the axiomatic level that you weren't being condescending by saying "wasn't delivered that way" is still just your opinion, just really qualify your statement as neutral. You were being condescending. "Move On" is used now because d "mullet", "hater" over the years, and other dismissive identifiers have failed to really stereotype people that have a different point of view. It is very hypocritical. The "move on" mantra swings both ways like Andy Dick.

I'm not going to re-read your post. You said people should "move on" and that's that. Now you're saying you don't understand why people don't move on? Well that is just as insulting. Pretty close-minded. Pretty stupid really. Purely glib and dismissive of other people's intelligent thoughts.

Move On? No U.

I don't require anyone to move on, just don't understand why some don't.

What do you "require" people to do? You are arrogant. Maybe you can't see how your reflect from your perspective but that sentence alone is degrading.

have to agree

the whole moving on-find another band comes off condescending n judgemental

as if having hundreds or thousands of posts defending someone u dont know is a much better way to waste ones time on the internet

instead of debatng an opposing viewpoint they turn to psychoanalysis and offer advice on what one should do with their life

its quite hilarious actually

i could come up with my own opinions as to the type of people who come here day in and day out to praise a complete stranger who doesnt know them, respect them, or even like them , n offer some advice too

except iid rather discuss the topic than waste my time with the holier than thou attitude

It is interesting to me how some people here impose meaning on my posts to try to make them arrogant, condescending and holier than though in an effort to paint me as those things. Most seemed to get my point, some didn't. I didn't argue for the band, but for the fan. It is futile to want this band to behave the way you wish them to behave. When I say 'move on' I mean that perhaps they didn't earn your efforts on the subject of changing the way they operate (ie staying in the abusive relationship). Move on could mean to a band who listens and considers your opinion, or move on to another subject on this band, or move on and have a peanut butter sandwich. Who cares? Or don't move on. What is it with those words that got you two so riled up? But don't mistake that you gave the words the power to offend, not me. I use them a dozen times a day at least - move on to the dishes, move on to dinner, move on, move on, move on. There hopefully they have lost some of their offensive power.

No worries Orsys,you did not sound condescending to me,or some others,and my point on topic,was that its a two way street,if you want to be treated courteously,,you actually have to make that effort yourself,not singularly expect it ,its quid pro quo,some of the inflammatory statements that have been made about the band convinces me that any information would be shredded,construed,misinterpreted,and end up in a bloodbath,so I don't blame the band at all for not releasing tentative plans,those that can't live with the way GNR is operated,should find a band that satisfies their requirements,I've stuck by GNR for years,and don't plan on changing my stance,regardless of what anyone says,speculates,lies about or fabricates,it won't change one dammned thing

Edited April 3, 2011 by Trilogy

[AngelZ]

It is interesting to me how some people here impose meaning on my posts to try to make them arrogant, condescending and holier than though in an effort to paint me as those things. Most seemed to get my point, some didn't. I didn't argue for the band, but for the fan. It is futile to want this band to behave the way you wish them to behave. When I say 'move on' I mean that perhaps they didn't earn your efforts on the subject of changing the way they operate (ie staying in the abusive relationship). Move on could mean to a band who listens and considers your opinion, or move on to another subject on this band, or move on and have a peanut butter sandwich. Who cares? Or don't move on. What is it with those words that got you two so riled up? But don't mistake that you gave the words the power to offend, not me. I use them a dozen times a day at least - move on to the dishes, move on to dinner, move on, move on, move on. There hopefully they have lost some of their offensive power.

it's not the words that pose the problem, just the arrogance that comes with thinking u have the right to offer unsolicited advice

not just u, since ur hardly the first person to come here n project such profound wisdom onto others

u are not being painted as anything, u just happen to be the last 1 to say it, ive seen u say it before, therefore the focus for this discussion

had the poster stated im currently unhappy with the band what should I do ur response would have been valid

but they didnt, they expressed an opinion which differed from yours

instead of debating the post u responded in a way that had nothing to do with it at all

thats what some have an issue with

if u dont care then save the advice for people u actually know n do care about, or take it yourself

[Trilogy]

It is interesting to me how some people here impose meaning on my posts to try to make them arrogant, condescending and holier than though in an effort to paint me as those things. Most seemed to get my point, some didn't. I didn't argue for the band, but for the fan. It is futile to want this band to behave the way you wish them to behave. When I say 'move on' I mean that perhaps they didn't earn your efforts on the subject of changing the way they operate (ie staying in the abusive relationship). Move on could mean to a band who listens and considers your opinion, or move on to another subject on this band, or move on and have a peanut butter sandwich. Who cares? Or don't move on. What is it with those words that got you two so riled up? But don't mistake that you gave the words the power to offend, not me. I use them a dozen times a day at least - move on to the dishes, move on to dinner, move on, move on, move on. There hopefully they have lost some of their offensive power.

it's not the words that pose the problem, just the arrogance that comes with thinking u have the right to offer unsolicited advice

not just u, since ur hardly the first person to come here n project such profound wisdom onto others

u are not being painted as anything, u just happen to be the last 1 to say it, ive seen u say it before, therefore the focus for this discussion

had the poster stated im currently unhappy with the band what should I do ur response would have been valid

but they didnt, they expressed an opinion which differed from yours

instead of debating the post u responded in a way that had nothing to do with it at all

thats what some have an issue with

if u dont care then save the advice for people u actually know n do care about, or take it yourself

That could be applied to your posts as well,physician heal thyself,

And on topic,my opinion won't be changing,you get back what you hand out,and I'm still taking GNRs side,over the sad group of complaining drones,its all about the music,not any imagined relationship that would only benefit your wants,not needs

[Orsys]

It is interesting to me how some people here impose meaning on my posts to try to make them arrogant, condescending and holier than though in an effort to paint me as those things. Most seemed to get my point, some didn't. I didn't argue for the band, but for the fan. It is futile to want this band to behave the way you wish them to behave. When I say 'move on' I mean that perhaps they didn't earn your efforts on the subject of changing the way they operate (ie staying in the abusive relationship). Move on could mean to a band who listens and considers your opinion, or move on to another subject on this band, or move on and have a peanut butter sandwich. Who cares? Or don't move on. What is it with those words that got you two so riled up? But don't mistake that you gave the words the power to offend, not me. I use them a dozen times a day at least - move on to the dishes, move on to dinner, move on, move on, move on. There hopefully they have lost some of their offensive power.

it's not the words that pose the problem, just the arrogance that comes with thinking u have the right to offer unsolicited advice

not just u, since ur hardly the first person to come here n project such profound wisdom onto others

u are not being painted as anything, u just happen to be the last 1 to say it, ive seen u say it before, therefore the focus for this discussion

had the poster stated im currently unhappy with the band what should I do ur response would have been valid

but they didnt, they expressed an opinion which differed from yours

instead of debating the post u responded in a way that had nothing to do with it at all

thats what some have an issue with

if u dont care then save the advice for people u actually know n do care about, or take it yourself

Thanks for the, um, advice? Let's not pretend you're not being completely judgemental and holier than though here yourself.

Oh come on, all we all do here is give opinions and unwanted advice.

Besides, I can't be arrogant as that would be an imperfection and I am, of course, perfect.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Orsys

[Black Horse]

Let me tell you that many of those old posters you are referring to stopped coming here because some were banned by someone on a power trip, or they stopped coming because they got sick of this place and of its stupid posters ( not all of them, obviously) or they just have a life and don´t have time to spend in here.

If you are a fan you are a fan because of the music not because of how much the artist talks or doesn´t talk. And the fact that people don´t spend too much time here defending the band or they stop coming doesn´t mean they stopped being fans.

yea all those reasons are true

except u forgot to mention the large demographic of people who left because they dont give a shit about Axl or his band anymore

n id argue fans obviously do appreciate when a band talks to them, the forums exploded when Axl came to chat

the mood of this place was the best its ever been, before or since

to think that a little more communication wouldnt make a positive impact on many fans is putting ur head in the sand

True, some people left because they don´t give a shit anymore, but that happens to a lot of bands. I myself stopped liking bands and don´t give a shit about them anymore but those people don´t count imo. And I still don´t agree with you, communication is good but the problem is that there are always people twisting things, taking them out of context and bashing because the band or Axl didn´t say what they wanted to hear. And about the chats, yes, the mood was positive for a few days ( while people´s shock of having Axl in person online lasted) and then, it all turned into a bashing festival again and it´s not the first time it´s happened.

In 2004, when the band was scheduled to play RIR and Buckethead left, Axl send a letter to apologize and guess what happened?. This is always like this, ALWAYS. I´ve been in the forums for years and I´ve seen all kind of shit coming from the so called "fans".

With this I don´t mean I don´t want the band/Axl to communicate with us, of course I would love it, BUT I understand why they wouldn´t want to update us.

[AmyL]

I know everyone always seems to get bent out of shape on how Axl supposedly treats fans. I have seen tons of clips of Axl signing and get his pic taken with fans, which is a very awkward thing for most anyone. Esp. someone as private as Axl. And yet many, many times you see him doing it. Yes Axl has said things time and time again that haven't ended up happening. I never once heard him say I promise in any of those statements. Things change. They don't always go the way they are planned. And as we know it, in gnr it is really rare to see it go as planned. How long do you have to be a fan before you all except that's just the way its going too be. Doesn't bother me any. I just take what I can and totally enjoy it. peace out!

I should point out I am a fan that has been let down by 2 cancelled shows. Yeah it sucked but didn't change my feeling or love for my fav. band one bit