Axl vs Activision

[Damn_Smooth]

Anyway going to wait and see, they had agreed to one thing and did something else. It is not cool or allowed so let's see how things go.

In the real world it is important to protect your copyrights and ownerships.

So you've seen the agreement? Link?

Not trying to be smarmy but how do we know an agreement was broken if we don't know what was in it and how it was worded? We actually got a decent, civil discussion going about the different possibilities in the Axl vs Activision thread before it got buried by the usual juvenile bullshit.

I think that you should be able to ascertain that there was an agreement of some sort by seeing that Axl is suing. Then again, it will be hilarious if Axl goes to court and the judge asks him for a link that he can't provide.

That would be funny.

Obviously there was an agreement, but there's no way of knowing that it was broken if we don't know what the agreement was.

I love Axl, but I would pay money to see the look on his face in that situation. In fact, I think judges should ask for links in all situations. That would make Court TV a hell of a lot more entertaining. "Can you provide a link with a video of the murder in progress? No? Not guilty."

I smell ratings.

[sturginho]

I love Axl

Link?

[Damn_Smooth]

I love Axl

Link?

Here you go.

http://elsewhere/preview.php?num=I-love-Axl

[Guest NewGNRnOldGNR]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that “no character old or new” appear in the game alongside “Welcome to the Jungle” (presumably GN’R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

[volcano62]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that "no character old or new" appear in the game alongside "Welcome to the Jungle" (presumably GN'R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Thanks for clearing that up.

Also i will quote myself:

Activision also screwed Courtney Love. she almost died seeing Kurt singing Bon Jovi songs

They told her that they would not use his image for any other songs than Nirvana.

Also No Doubt sued them and won

http://news.softpedi...le-140114.shtml

Activision is going down hard!

[sailaway]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that "no character old or new" appear in the game alongside "Welcome to the Jungle" (presumably GN'R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Thanks for clearing that up.

Also i will quote myself:

Activision also screwed Courtney Love. she almost died seeing Kurt singing Bon Jovi songs

They told her that they would not use his image for any other songs than Nirvana.

Also No Doubt sued them and won

http://news.softpedi...le-140114.shtml

Activision is going down hard!

They also perpetuated the misdirection that Saul was still in the band by inclusion of the GNR logo,it was a deceitful smarmy move by Activision,every reason for a lawsuit.

[Chris 55]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that "no character old or new" appear in the game alongside "Welcome to the Jungle" (presumably GN'R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Thanks for clearing that up.

Also i will quote myself:

Activision also screwed Courtney Love. she almost died seeing Kurt singing Bon Jovi songs

They told her that they would not use his image for any other songs than Nirvana.

Also No Doubt sued them and won

http://news.softpedi...le-140114.shtml

Activision is going down hard!

They also perpetuated the misdirection that Saul was still in the band by inclusion of the GNR logo,it was a deceitful smarmy move by Activision,every reason for a lawsuit.

GNR logo? The new one or the old one that Jeff, Bill, and Mike were in?

[Lines&Noses]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that "no character old or new" appear in the game alongside "Welcome to the Jungle" (presumably GN'R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Thanks for clearing that up.

Also i will quote myself:

Activision also screwed Courtney Love. she almost died seeing Kurt singing Bon Jovi songs

They told her that they would not use his image for any other songs than Nirvana.

Also No Doubt sued them and won

http://news.softpedi...le-140114.shtml

Activision is going down hard!

OK but using the Kurt case as a precedent, would seem to back activisions case because slash played and indeed wrote the guitar parts for Jungle?

[volcano62]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that "no character old or new" appear in the game alongside "Welcome to the Jungle" (presumably GN'R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Thanks for clearing that up.

Also i will quote myself:

Activision also screwed Courtney Love. she almost died seeing Kurt singing Bon Jovi songs

They told her that they would not use his image for any other songs than Nirvana.

Also No Doubt sued them and won

http://news.softpedi...le-140114.shtml

Activision is going down hard!

OK but using the Kurt case as a precedent, would seem to back activisions case because slash played and indeed wrote the guitar parts for Jungle?

The point I was trying to make is that Activision had an agreement with Courtney and did not respect it.

[star]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that “no character old or new” appear in the game alongside “Welcome to the Jungle” (presumably GN’R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Maybe someone could ask Beta what character (if any) Activision should have used while Welcome to the Jungle was played

[Spirit]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that no character old or new appear in the game alongside Welcome to the Jungle (presumably GNR would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Maybe someone could ask Beta what character (if any) Activision should have used while Welcome to the Jungle was played

A fictional one like 99% of every other songs in Guitar Hero.

I myself have no problem with Slash being the character playing the song, but I completely understand the reasons Axl had to not include neither old or new members for this particular song.

No Slash because he's not in Guns N' Roses.

No new member because they didn't record the song.

Edited June 28, 2011 by spirit83

[FCBarcelona]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that “no character old or new” appear in the game alongside “Welcome to the Jungle” (presumably GN’R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Maybe someone could ask Beta what character (if any) Activision should have used while Welcome to the Jungle was played

Very good point to make. The fact that a new GN'R member wouldn't be allowed to be juxtaposed to the Welcome To the Jungle doesn't reflect his interest in substantiating and protecting his Guns N' Roses trademark. Including Slash does no more to distort the perception of what is Guns N' Roses anymore than the Welcome to the Jungle video played on TV and YouTube right now.

Axl's request not to include Slash nor new GN'R members leaves the interpretation open-ended. Activision could have included The Smurfs, The Muppets, Bon Jovi, Vince Neil, Nirvana etc. If Axl's representatives cared enough about how the product was to be presented then they could have and should stipulated that in the contract. Activision did their due diligence.

[Guest NewGNRnOldGNR]

The fact that a new GN'R member wouldn't be allowed to be juxtaposed to the Welcome To the Jungle doesn't reflect his interest in substantiating and protecting his Guns N' Roses trademark.

No it signifies a respect for the reality “Jungle” was composed by a bygone Guns N’ Roses (totally foreign to more present incarnations).

Including Slash does no more to distort the perception of what is Guns N' Roses anymore than the Welcome to the Jungle video played on TV and YouTube right now.

No with the “Jungle” video it’s very easy to determine that Guns N’ Roses being a past era. The animated game however, with Slash depicted as a GN’R guitarist and the bullet logo design being part of the package, does not give that impression.

[cancerface]

if axl doesn't want people to associate slash with gnr, then i think the onus is on axl to get cooler guitar players and make better music than he did with slash. or at least something that's in the same general league.

also, if axl has all these specific contractual demands, he should write a contract and not allow it all to be handled in a phone call with his housekeeper. it's like he sets himself up for failure sometimes.

[axl8302]

if axl doesn't want people to associate slash with gnr, then i think the onus is on axl to get cooler guitar players and make better music than he did with slash. or at least something that's in the same general league.

also, if axl has all these specific contractual demands, he should write a contract and not allow it all to be handled in a phone call with his housekeeper. it's like he sets himself up for failure sometimes.

The onus isn't on guns, the onus is own Activision to respect and adhere to the legal contract that initially agreed to.

A verbal contact is treated exactly the same in court as a written one - it's doesn't make a difference. Business's are bought and sold on verbal contracts and handshakes. And for the record, Beta is his PA, not his housekeeper - at least not exclusively. Bounce, hater.

[cancerface]

if axl doesn't want people to associate slash with gnr, then i think the onus is on axl to get cooler guitar players and make better music than he did with slash. or at least something that's in the same general league.

also, if axl has all these specific contractual demands, he should write a contract and not allow it all to be handled in a phone call with his housekeeper. it's like he sets himself up for failure sometimes.

The onus isn't on guns, the onus is own Activision to respect and adhere to the legal contract that initially agreed to.

A verbal contact is treated exactly the same in court as a written one - it's doesn't make a difference. Business's are bought and sold on verbal contracts and handshakes. And for the record, Beta is his PA, not his housekeeper - at least not exclusively. Bounce, hater.

oh, okay sorry. then in the future, axl should have his legal contracts handled by lawyers with contracts and not a friendly phone chat with the "personal assistant / housekeeper." but it strikes me as slightly psycho that i earned "hater" status not for criticizing his music, but for criticizing the business skills of his personal assistant. sensitive much?

if you think that's a normal way that multi-million dollar contracts are negotiated, then you're as dillusional as a housekeeper who tries to manage a band.

Edited June 29, 2011 by cancerface

[axl8302]

Here's other examples of redistribution of the pre-1996 Guns N' Roses products in other forms, after 1996.

Wow dude, you are so out your depth in this conversation. You just don't get it.

if axl doesn't want people to associate slash with gnr, then i think the onus is on axl to get cooler guitar players and make better music than he did with slash. or at least something that's in the same general league.

also, if axl has all these specific contractual demands, he should write a contract and not allow it all to be handled in a phone call with his housekeeper. it's like he sets himself up for failure sometimes.

The onus isn't on guns, the onus is own Activision to respect and adhere to the legal contract that initially agreed to.

A verbal contact is treated exactly the same in court as a written one - it's doesn't make a difference. Business's are bought and sold on verbal contracts and handshakes. And for the record, Beta is his PA, not his housekeeper - at least not exclusively. Bounce, hater.

oh, okay sorry. then in the future, axl should have his legal contracts handled by lawyers with contracts and not a friendly phone chat with the "personal assistant / housekeeper." but it strikes me as slightly psycho that i earned "hater" status not for criticizing his music, but for criticizing the business skills of his personal assistant. sensitive much?

if you think that's a normal way that multi-million dollar contracts are negotiated, then you're as dillusional as a housekeeper who tries to manage a band.

I've read your previous posts, you're a certified hater. Like I said, many, many contracts (even multi million dollar ones) are done on the phone or with the shake of a hand. if you don't understand that, then you're naive.

What do you do for a living anyway that makes you such an expert of contract negotiation?

[Guest NewGNRnOldGNR]

Here's other examples of redistribution of the pre-1996 Guns N' Roses products in other forms, after 1996.

The legal dispute was triggered by Activision perpetuating the idea Slash’s personal exploits such as appearing in video games are somehow representative of GN’R (Slash being part of GN’R’s history through discographic contributions isn’t a problem).

Edited June 30, 2011 by NewGNRnOldGNR

[cancerface]

Here's other examples of redistribution of the pre-1996 Guns N' Roses products in other forms, after 1996.

Wow dude, you are so out your depth in this conversation. You just don't get it.

if axl doesn't want people to associate slash with gnr, then i think the onus is on axl to get cooler guitar players and make better music than he did with slash. or at least something that's in the same general league.

also, if axl has all these specific contractual demands, he should write a contract and not allow it all to be handled in a phone call with his housekeeper. it's like he sets himself up for failure sometimes.

The onus isn't on guns, the onus is own Activision to respect and adhere to the legal contract that initially agreed to.

A verbal contact is treated exactly the same in court as a written one - it's doesn't make a difference. Business's are bought and sold on verbal contracts and handshakes. And for the record, Beta is his PA, not his housekeeper - at least not exclusively. Bounce, hater.

oh, okay sorry. then in the future, axl should have his legal contracts handled by lawyers with contracts and not a friendly phone chat with the "personal assistant / housekeeper." but it strikes me as slightly psycho that i earned "hater" status not for criticizing his music, but for criticizing the business skills of his personal assistant. sensitive much?

if you think that's a normal way that multi-million dollar contracts are negotiated, then you're as dillusional as a housekeeper who tries to manage a band.

I've read your previous posts, you're a certified hater. Like I said, many, many contracts (even multi million dollar ones) are done on the phone or with the shake of a hand. if you don't understand that, then you're naive.

What do you do for a living anyway that makes you such an expert of contract negotiation?

every time i take a job, my entertainment attorney goes over every page of the contract, redlines his changes, returns it, their attorneys do the same, we revise and we repeat. i promise you, many many people use legal contracts to specify details of work agreements. it's far more unusual to let your housekeeper handle these things through friendly phone chats. especially for something as massive as a licensing agreement between two huge franchises.

if your allegiance to axl requires you to believe that legal contracts are less common than handshakes in the business world, then you're even more delusional than the people who thought kids would be dancing in their highschool hallways to street of dreams.

but please... go on and tell me about all your legal experiences negotiating entertainment contracts. if you had a ridiculously detailed list of demands about who's music could be heard and whether their image could be seen in conjunction with the music they created, would you let your housekeeper take care of it?

[star]

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that “no character old or new” appear in the game alongside “Welcome to the Jungle” (presumably GN’R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Maybe someone could ask Beta what character (if any) Activision should have used while Welcome to the Jungle was played

Very good point to make. The fact that a new GN'R member wouldn't be allowed to be juxtaposed to the Welcome To the Jungle doesn't reflect his interest in substantiating and protecting his Guns N' Roses trademark. Including Slash does no more to distort the perception of what is Guns N' Roses anymore than the Welcome to the Jungle video played on TV and YouTube right now.

Axl's request not to include Slash nor new GN'R members leaves the interpretation open-ended. Activision could have included The Smurfs, The Muppets, Bon Jovi, Vince Neil, Nirvana etc. If Axl's representatives cared enough about how the product was to be presented then they could have and should stipulated that in the contract. Activision did their due diligence.

It does not make sense to give permission to use a song, but not allow for a character to represent the guitar aspect in game. That is the whole purpose of Guitar Hero. Whi ever was is in correspondence with Activision (Beta or otherwise) appears to have made a huge error. As I bet Activision has all their paper work in order.

[volcano62]

As I bet Activision has all their paper work in order.

No you WANT them to have it in order, you WANT Axl to fail and you WANT GNR to look stupid.

See the difference?

[axl8302]

Here's other examples of redistribution of the pre-1996 Guns N' Roses products in other forms, after 1996.

Wow dude, you are so out your depth in this conversation. You just don't get it.

if axl doesn't want people to associate slash with gnr, then i think the onus is on axl to get cooler guitar players and make better music than he did with slash. or at least something that's in the same general league.

also, if axl has all these specific contractual demands, he should write a contract and not allow it all to be handled in a phone call with his housekeeper. it's like he sets himself up for failure sometimes.

The onus isn't on guns, the onus is own Activision to respect and adhere to the legal contract that initially agreed to.

A verbal contact is treated exactly the same in court as a written one - it's doesn't make a difference. Business's are bought and sold on verbal contracts and handshakes. And for the record, Beta is his PA, not his housekeeper - at least not exclusively. Bounce, hater.

oh, okay sorry. then in the future, axl should have his legal contracts handled by lawyers with contracts and not a friendly phone chat with the "personal assistant / housekeeper." but it strikes me as slightly psycho that i earned "hater" status not for criticizing his music, but for criticizing the business skills of his personal assistant. sensitive much?

if you think that's a normal way that multi-million dollar contracts are negotiated, then you're as dillusional as a housekeeper who tries to manage a band.

I've read your previous posts, you're a certified hater. Like I said, many, many contracts (even multi million dollar ones) are done on the phone or with the shake of a hand. if you don't understand that, then you're naive.

What do you do for a living anyway that makes you such an expert of contract negotiation?

every time i take a job, my entertainment attorney goes over every page of the contract, redlines his changes, returns it, their attorneys do the same, we revise and we repeat. i promise you, many many people use legal contracts to specify details of work agreements. it's far more unusual to let your housekeeper handle these things through friendly phone chats. especially for something as massive as a licensing agreement between two huge franchises.

if your allegiance to axl requires you to believe that legal contracts are less common than handshakes in the business world, then you're even more delusional than the people who thought kids would be dancing in their highschool hallways to street of dreams.

but please... go on and tell me about all your legal experiences negotiating entertainment contracts. if you had a ridiculously detailed list of demands about who's music could be heard and whether their image could be seen in conjunction with the music they created, would you let your housekeeper take care of it?

I work in the entertainment industry, I'm a film producer and director... and a lot of my deals are done on verbal agreements and handshakes. You're just a hater, how Axl handles his business is up to him, he's certainly far more succcesful than you and I - he doesn't need your advice.

She's his PA and a very important and trusted member of the GN'R camp, she's not "just" a housekeeper. Christ, he even calls him his mother! Your argument there is void.

Edited June 29, 2011 by axl8302

[moreblack]

this reminds me of when people bring up Axl's singing, and suddenly everyone here is an expert vocal coach...

[star]

As I bet Activision has all their paper work in order.

No you WANT them to have it in order, you WANT Axl to fail and you WANT GNR to look stupid.

See the difference?

I think Activision have Slash perform Slash guitar work as 100% acceptable.

I think Axl's demands for cash 1 year after the game became a huge success un-acceptable.

[volcano62]

As I bet Activision has all their paper work in order.

No you WANT them to have it in order, you WANT Axl to fail and you WANT GNR to look stupid.

See the difference?

I think Activision have Slash perform Slash guitar work as 100% acceptable.

I think Axl's demands for cash 1 year after the game became a huge success un-acceptable.

Slash should have played Slither NOT a GNR song.