Guitar Hero Lawsuit and UMG connections

[CoolRanchDressing]

Talking about douchebags, enter MSL.

If my argument was weak or faulty, you would attack my argument. The fact that you choose instead to attack me personally while ignoring my argument simply strengthens my position.

Yeah, I get it. But also, you're a giant asshole who intentionally stole from and attempted to steal more from my favorite band. You wrought havoc. If you cupcake these boards with your limp dick "i-got-your-back-Axl" routine to assuage your own guilt, you can fuck off.

Nobody wants your opinion, thief. Nobody asked for your opinion, thief. It's fucking great that you have one, but we already had that opinion covered. So you contributed nothing to our conversation by bringing your slimely, disgraceful self here once more. It's hard to imagine any single person causing more annoyance and grief for my band.

Why are you back again? Want to brag about finding another woman to have sex with you? How much more attention to you need? Would you be satisfied if the members of this forum got together and sang a song about how brilliant you are? I know it's a favorite topic of conversation for you.

Edited January 8, 2012 by CoolRanchDressing

[dalsh327]

This is a joke. Why not concentrate on more important things. Man Axl can be a petty chump sometimes.

No,its definately not a joke,nor is it without merit,and before anymore nasty little epithets are thrown,you might want to consider that No Doubt is ALSO suing Activision,for breaching their agreement as well.

And a third possible suit may be filed by Courtney Love and the remaing members of Nirvana are contemplating litigious action against Activision for breach of contract because they did authorize/license the image of Kurt to be used,but not in 80- some-odd songs in which he appears.

But I suppose that Gwen Stefani/No Doubt and Nirvana/courtney love are "bitter and petty,chumps" as well.

It is what it is. The truth is that Axl could sue Slash for causing Erin's miscarriage and it would still look bitter and petty because it's Axl Rose and everything he does is bitter and petty, especially when it comes to Slash. This reinforces that idea for a lot of people.

I'd rather Axl focus this energy on the next album, but what can you do?

That may be a priority to you, but there is every reason and rationale to pursue this.

If you set a precedant of allowing people to continue on unrestrained and not held liable for breach of contract,you are giving the shitweasels of the world an open door to continue this type of snake oil chicanery.

The fact that Activision/Blizzard has more than one lawsuit pending says a great deal about their shady business practices.

It's not the money,it is the point of the entire deception, If people turn a blind eye to something they know to be wrong,then they are enabling it to continue.

True. It's not like Axl can do worse in anybody's eyes (sadly).

I still think it's a waste of valuable time, though. It's true that what they did was wrong, but it's like jaywalking and illegal downloading; you know someone did something wrong, but it's not worth pursuing. Just don't associate with Activision and move on. 'Course I don't know exact details on the case, so maybe there's something really truly pressing other than Axl being lied to about Slash being featured on Guitar Hero. I just think people should choose their battles. It's not like people even care about Guitar Hero anymore.

Just my two cents, of course.

The situation is a bit more complex due to Vivendi being the Parent company to UMG,and owning Activision/Blizzard.

I also would contend that its not as trivial as Jaywalking,It's hardly a waste of time as it will be attorney vs. attorney.

You can download the lawsuit in a PDF file on the first post.

Would it have any effect on future albums?

It shouldn't, but now it makes sense why they haven't lined any shows up yet.

Most people think this is a trivial lawsuit. It's Guitar Hero, it's a song Slash originally played on, but because he owns the name, but Axl has the rights to do this in a court of law.

Axl had a deal prior to GH III and the video game company overlooked it.

Video games make billions of dollars, something like Guitar Hero over the past 5 years made insane amounts of money. I think it's a good thing for kids to have a guitar in their hand and then go "I want to play the real thing." That's why you have all these guitar companies licensing out replicas.

The judge is going to go by what the video game agreed to, but in the end, Axl won't get 20 million, if he wins. It's a maximum amount but if he sued for 2-3 million, he might wind up winning 500K.

I don't know how this will have an effect on other video games that use celebrity avatars, but talking more about Michael Jackson or Elvis' image being used in a game where they might be portrayed in a less than flattering light.

The Azoff lawsuit was just a pissing contest between two rich guys, because Azoff wasn't going to personally manage GNR. I think Axl went with the assumption he was, but between hearing about Azoff trying to get Slash in the same room with him (ambush) and passing the band on to one of his lackeys, Axl said "f that" and broke his end of the deal and kept the money. Thing is - Axl knew what was going to happen, Azoff's been doing this for 40 years, and knows exactly what Axl signed. It's nothing personal, just business, but Azoff can be king dick, too. He survived mafia guys, so a tempermental rock star is easy in comparison... he already dealt with Eddie Van Halen's tantrums on the 04 tour.

[Use Your Delusion 1]

so, any predictions on the outcome of this court case?

[vaida]

Talking about douchebags, enter MSL.

If my argument was weak or faulty, you would attack my argument. The fact that you choose instead to attack me personally while ignoring my argument simply strengthens my position.

I agree with Master Chief Billy. Now off with your data-stick

[GiveNuseR]

One of the most ridiculous lawsuits I've ever seen.

Not if it's true that the guy kept telling him Slash would not be in the game. If that's proven, then the lawsuit is a win in some capacity. Youc an't reach an agreement with someone and then violate it and think it's a "ridiculous lawsuit" to try to rectify the situation.

I wish they ahd indeed made a gnr game though. I do own all the CD songs in rock abnd2/3, but had a whole game been made around it then it would have the classic gnr songs too!

[dalsh327]

so, any predictions on the outcome of this court case?

Court favors Axl but he won't get 20 million. This all comes down to Activision music guy Tim Riley telling Beta "you can't believe everything you read on the internet" and knowing what the outcome of the game was going to be.

Wonder what Fortus thinks about the whole thing, though. Puts him in an awkward spot, because odds are he's the reason why Axl worked with Guitar Hero in the first place. There is a Linked In profile, and it does mention him having a history with Richard Fortus - you can Google him up.

"On February 14, 2010, Guns N' Roses played a Valentine's Day show at the Rose Bar at Gramercy Park in New York City. Tim Riley from Activision was in attendance and approached Rose after the show. In tears he apologized for the way in which Rose and Guns N' Roses had been mistreated by Activision. He said "I can't sleep at night" and asked Rose to forgive him."

The thing is, if he was sincere about it, why is he STILL working for Activision? I do think Axl & Beta feel the guy is a traitor just from what I've read. I sure as hell would. It comes down to - "we asked for permission once, shouldn't be a problem again, I'll tell Beta and Axl what they want to hear, and when the game comes out and make the money, we'll beg for forgiveness." If Beta and Axl kept inquiring about how the game came out, and they're told "don't believe everything you read on the internet?" and then you find out the company went ahead and did it anyway?

Even though he doesn't talk about GNR, here's a fairly recent interview with him. He does mention Activision cutting his staff back, and without a doubt, they're going to be saying they're broke during the trial. But it gives you an idea what he does for them.

http://steveleeds.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/a-talk-with-activision-vp-of-music-affairs-tim-riley/

All I know is that if Axl wins, Tim possibly walks out with a severance package. He's an industry veteran, but if he's costing the company 20 million dollars because he took it upon himself to BS Axl and Beta? It all depends on who decided to make the call on SCOM being used in GHIII. If Tim went to Activision and told them "I think this is a really bad idea, Axl is litigious" and Activision said "we'll beg for forgiveness when the time comes, get the permission, write the check, and it'll be taken care of." But it didn't work out that way.

But the fact that he was an industry veteran, and he's the one responsible for getting a lot of musicians into the video game world, this is going to be as big as a bumper dent to Activision. Guitar Hero has made 2 BILLION dollars. They made close to 1 billion in 1 quarter a couple of years ago.

The question is whether or not this will affect a reunion. Slash was innocent to this, and might have even warned them... "I know I played on the damn thing but if you're using the songs, he owns that stuff. Are you sure Axl is fine with this?" I just think he was more focused on kids playing the game, because he has kids, and the money coming from it.

That's my take on it, anyway.

[WhazUp]

I think this is one of those things that unless we heard the oral agreements and viewed the original contracts we can't really predict the outcome - IMO this is as much about spinning what was said to fit their case just as much as the words themselves. Contract wording can make a world of a difference, and none of us know what really went down and as a result I don't think it would be wise to say one side or the other's claims are 100 percent accurate

[Kill Devil Hill]

Would it have any effect on future albums?

It is a sticky clusterfuck,and Certainly explains the animosity toward UMG.

To top things off,the Guitar Hero guitar comes with Stickers.

One of them is the old Guns N' Roses logo,and that was way wrong to include that.

I'll reread the PDF in case I'm missing something. If it looks like a political decision to sue (show that UMG can't walk all over Axl and give him a little more power for future albums or whatever), then I wouldn't say it was a lame reason to sue somebody. But if not, yes, the contract was breached (assuming Axl's side of the story is 100% true), but does it affect his life either way? Not really. But again, I'll reread the PDF when my brain isn't fried. :xmasssanta:

Would it have any effect on future albums?

It shouldn't, but now it makes sense why they haven't lined any shows up yet.

Well, that would be my point. This lawsuit would be eating up valuable time.

[Use Your Delusion 1]

so, any predictions on the outcome of this court case?

Court favors Axl but he won't get 20 million. This all comes down to Activision music guy Tim Riley telling Beta "you can't believe everything you read on the internet" and knowing what the outcome of the game was going to be.

Wonder what Fortus thinks about the whole thing, though. Puts him in an awkward spot, because odds are he's the reason why Axl worked with Guitar Hero in the first place. There is a Linked In profile, and it does mention him having a history with Richard Fortus - you can Google him up.

"On February 14, 2010, Guns N' Roses played a Valentine's Day show at the Rose Bar at Gramercy Park in New York City. Tim Riley from Activision was in attendance and approached Rose after the show. In tears he apologized for the way in which Rose and Guns N' Roses had been mistreated by Activision. He said "I can't sleep at night" and asked Rose to forgive him."

The thing is, if he was sincere about it, why is he STILL working for Activision? I do think Axl & Beta feel the guy is a traitor just from what I've read. I sure as hell would. It comes down to - "we asked for permission once, shouldn't be a problem again, I'll tell Beta and Axl what they want to hear, and when the game comes out and make the money, we'll beg for forgiveness." If Beta and Axl kept inquiring about how the game came out, and they're told "don't believe everything you read on the internet?" and then you find out the company went ahead and did it anyway?

Even though he doesn't talk about GNR, here's a fairly recent interview with him. He does mention Activision cutting his staff back, and without a doubt, they're going to be saying they're broke during the trial. But it gives you an idea what he does for them.

http://steveleeds.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/a-talk-with-activision-vp-of-music-affairs-tim-riley/

All I know is that if Axl wins, Tim possibly walks out with a severance package. He's an industry veteran, but if he's costing the company 20 million dollars because he took it upon himself to BS Axl and Beta? It all depends on who decided to make the call on SCOM being used in GHIII. If Tim went to Activision and told them "I think this is a really bad idea, Axl is litigious" and Activision said "we'll beg for forgiveness when the time comes, get the permission, write the check, and it'll be taken care of." But it didn't work out that way.

But the fact that he was an industry veteran, and he's the one responsible for getting a lot of musicians into the video game world, this is going to be as big as a bumper dent to Activision. Guitar Hero has made 2 BILLION dollars. They made close to 1 billion in 1 quarter a couple of years ago.

The question is whether or not this will affect a reunion. Slash was innocent to this, and might have even warned them... "I know I played on the damn thing but if you're using the songs, he owns that stuff. Are you sure Axl is fine with this?" I just think he was more focused on kids playing the game, because he has kids, and the money coming from it.

That's my take on it, anyway.

interesting, it seems as if Axl does have a legit case. 20 million is nothing to Activision, they publish the Call of Duty Franchise, which makes billions each year in addition to their other enterprises.

[axlsalinger]

Here's what Axl said about this issue during the 2008 chats:

Q: Since you own the name, does it bother you at all when you see or hear things like "Slash of GUNS N' ROSES" and that he's still well recognized as one of the faces of the band?

Axl: "It doesn't bother me unless it's being done at my expense and or to keep him associated as in Guitar Hero. Him being [in] Guitar Hero's fine but not when Activison is using 'Jungle', having Yahoo! use 'Sweet Child' unauthorized, claims no involvement with Slash, his or anyone's image or VR or anyone or anyone's music in either camp in promotion or commercials etc. I wasn't broadsided. I read about it as it moved along but Activision continually denied it right up to the release. That's some lowlife chicanery on all their parts.

"Yes, Slash was in GUNS and on 'Jungle' (and the whole 'I came to him for his riff' is as much crap as him saying he brought 'Locomotive' and 'Coma' in as complete songs) and he has rights to perform it but not to be represented in this context in association with GUNS. And since they weren't granted the license, it'll take some sorting."

[sailaway]

Would it have any effect on future albums?

It is a sticky clusterfuck,and Certainly explains the animosity toward UMG.

To top things off,the Guitar Hero guitar comes with Stickers.

One of them is the old Guns N' Roses logo,and that was way wrong to include that.

I'll reread the PDF in case I'm missing something. If it looks like a political decision to sue (show that UMG can't walk all over Axl and give him a little more power for future albums or whatever), then I wouldn't say it was a lame reason to sue somebody. But if not, yes, the contract was breached (assuming Axl's side of the story is 100% true), but does it affect his life either way? Not really. But again, I'll reread the PDF when my brain isn't fried. :xmasssanta:

Would it have any effect on future albums?

It shouldn't, but now it makes sense why they haven't lined any shows up yet.

Well, that would be my point. This lawsuit would be eating up valuable time.

It all boils down to what is right,Some people can't casually brush injustices under the bed and pretend it never happened.

Activision/ UMG/ Vivaldi/Interscope-Geffen should be held accountable.

Time is relative,depending on your convictions,beliefs and mindset.

[sailaway]

MusicIndustryFuck

Take the Lawsuit,add it to this Article that shows and exposes How the "Music Industry is killing itself while blaming the fans".

It is a lengthy analysis but well worth reading to fully understand the implications and atmosphere is regarding Lables/Artists/public

at present time.

[Chris 55]

If I remember correctly, Axl didn't have a problem with Slash being in guitar hero 3 or the use of VR songs. Since Axl owns the publishing rights of GNR songs, Activision could not use Welcome To The Jungle even if Activision and Slash wanted it. Axl said in an interview that Activision promised him Jungle was not being included in the game. They lied to Axl up to time the game was releashed. Axl has a case. You could say b/c Axl didn't want Slash associated with GNR or Jungle since he was no longer in the band. That could be part of it, but it was specifically that Activision did not have the authority (Axl's persmission) to use WTTJ. Since Slash was involved with the project, Axl did not want GNR music involved. That was his choice since he owns the name GNR and the publishing rights to the songs. Slash can play the songs live he chooses, but he has no power to publish them or allow others to publish them.

Nonetheless, it does make Axl look bad since public perception will be that he simply has a grudge against Slash. In response, Axl granted CD to the eventual Guitar Hero killer, Rock Band.

It doesn't matter though. Activision will most likely settle out of court to just end the case. They make billions every year just on the CoD games. This won't stop their weird business practices.

[Master Chief Billy Sunday]

Pirate Chick -

You mean the person that called Axl a douchebag?

Master Chief -

Your choice to focus on me personally rather than the on topic discussion says more about you than I ever could.

Cool Ranch Dressing -

No, I don't.

You have nothing to say about me, because you know nothing about me. I on the other hand know you're a complete tool. So get your USB stick and waddle out of here.

[Master Chief Billy Sunday]

Why do I need to know anything about you to discuss this lawsuit? If you want me to waddle out of here, why don't you counter my argument?

You are missing the point. Again, I haven't even read your post. I don't care what sh*t you are dribbling in this post, or any other.

For being such a douchebag, the Master Chief condemns you to watch this video no less than 10 times. Admittedly, this is one of the harshest punishments the Master Chief has ever passed down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21MWFGJXbDo

Edited January 9, 2012 by Master Chief Billy Sunday

[Master Chief Billy Sunday]

If you haven't read my post, how would you know if I'm missing the point? How would you even know what I said?

Thanks for linking to my vids tho.

Your welcome. I'm sure you got movement in your pants when you saw 1 more view for your vids. I enjoyed laughing at them hysterically (again).

This one's for you pal.

[Master Chief Billy Sunday]

If you don't read my posts, how did you know to say you're welcome when I said thank you? I'm impressed by your clairvoyant manners. Not sure why I would be excited over one more view of videos that have a thousand views or whatever . . .

Tuning is for pussies.

You aren't the first to be impressed by the Master Chief, and I'm sure you won't be the last.

[Stro]

Kind of connected since this thread comes down to Axl's rights in regards to the songs, does he/his management have to okay for any of the old guys to release old GNR songs on their records? Like Slash's solo album having the PC remake, Nightrain, and SCOM with Myles, or Rocket Queen with Myles. Does Axl have to say yes for that or is Slash (or Duff/Izzy/Matt/Steven) able to release those with no issue since he is credited with the songs as well?

[Leddy]

What confuses me is that the publishing was sold to Sanctuary years ago, yet it seems that Axl still decides how and when the recordings are used. How does that work?

[GET OFF AXLS BACK]

What confuses me is that the publishing was sold to Sanctuary years ago, yet it seems that Axl still decides how and when the recordings are used. How does that work?

Merck was in charge so I can only assume there were some serious provisos in the deal. Conflict of interests though.

[Leddy]

What confuses me is that the publishing was sold to Sanctuary years ago, yet it seems that Axl still decides how and when the recordings are used. How does that work?

Merck was in charge so I can only assume there were some serious provisos in the deal. Conflict of interests though.

How can you buy publishing rights for circa $20m and leave the authority to approve usage with someone else? That would be the worst financial decision in history surely?

[Use Your Delusion 1]

What confuses me is that the publishing was sold to Sanctuary years ago, yet it seems that Axl still decides how and when the recordings are used. How does that work?

Merck was in charge so I can only assume there were some serious provisos in the deal. Conflict of interests though.

How can you buy publishing rights for circa $20m and leave the authority to approve usage with someone else? That would be the worst financial decision in history surely?

spending $13 million on CD as it turned out wasn't to bad, but at the time it must have seemed ridiculous to many

Edited January 9, 2012 by Use Your Delusion 1

[CoolRanchDressing]

If you don't read my posts, how did you know to say you're welcome when I said thank you? I'm impressed by your clairvoyant manners. Not sure why I would be excited over one more view of videos that have a thousand views or whatever . . .

Tuning is for pussies.

You are not welcome here. You are a bad person. But your punishment is being you.

[CoolRanchDressing]

I can't for the life of me understand why you're still allowed to post here. How much more mean-spirited, selfish, destructive and dishonest does a forum member have to be?

You add nothing here but ill will. Banning you would not only improve the discourse in this forum, but it would probably expedite your inevitable suicide by closing the most reliable outlet for ego-gratification you've got. And that would be a gift to the entire world -- one less Ignatious Reilly.

[Gagarin]

Publishing = about the song writing/lyrics/composition.

Recordings = not related to publishing.