Dj Ashba: "I’ve demoed up 10 to 12 songs right now "

[rabia]

Ummm we do not know the exact details on Roy Thomas Baker's inclusion or direction so we cannot fully comment on it. Again, working with others and taking their choice over you own are two totally different things. For all we know, it could have been at Axl's insistence that the parts were re-done to move away from the obsolete industrial feel that Sean Beaven gave to the songs. We do not know about that.

The band in the 80's were 5 parts equal members. It was not just Axl deciding what was on the songs. Sure Axl had more say over a song than say Adler, but Slash, Duff and Izzy could veto a decision or at least change things up. I don't believe for a second Ron or DJ could do that... Hell Ron has been harping on about recording new material with the band for 4 years now and it hasn't happened. Ron's, Brian's, Robin's etc solos were all comped by Axl and they had to relearn them later. Axl steers the ship.

Also, what do you think about Oh My God being a demo when Axl clearly gave it his blessing in his 1999 press release? He talks wind sometimes, we all know that.

The dynamic has obviously changed now. Instead of 5 guys jamming out in a van on the way back from a small gig and creating the basis for a song in 5 minutes, it's now 8 guys who are barely in the same room together outside of touringr and record their parts separately or at least without Axl. Axl then cuts, comps, mixes, combines those parts into what he thinks sounds good. Even in the UYI recording sessions, the members said Axl was rarely around. Certainly a far cry from the way they worked in the 80's.

We do know that Baker was instrumental in getting those parts re-recorded - unless we choose to consider Tommy a liar for saying this.

This I Love wasnt a case of "taking others choice over your own"- it was a case of being convinced by others that it was the way to go when yourself had misgivings. Seems like working with others to me.

How do we know that its just Axl who has 100% say in what ends up on the songs and is never for a moment open to anybody's advice/suggestions now? Nobody suggests that Ron or DJ etc could ride roughshod over Axl but that's very different from the idea that none of the guys in the band could ever have Axl's ear for even a single decision or influence a single action by him.

He gave Oh My God his blessing in 1999 but he kept working on it later so it suggests he wasnt fully satisfied with it- that might explain the use of the word demo. We also know that there was discussion about putting This I Love on What Dreams May Come in 1998 and yet there were additions to the song well after that so its a similar situation there.

Sure, the song-writing dynamic was different in the 80s but even there Axl was sitting separately when he wrote the lyrics to SCOM and that song was done despite Slash, Duff and Steven all expressing an initial lack of enthusiasm for it. What changes did Slash, Izzy and Duff made to song structures against Axl's will?

Lol.... Just.... Lol... He again makes NO mention in the press release alluding to in any way that it was a demo.

What's the lol about it? Leonardo da Vinci said that "art is never finished, its just abandoned"- that really seems like Axl's way of doing things. He likes to return to existing ideas time after time and keep developing them.

[Georgy Zhukov]

He also rerecorded AFD.

[RocketQueen1985]

I don't know what's the problem with This I Love, I really like the song.

Me too. It's especially great live imo

I love the song... but I don't think it's that good live

It was hearing it live that really made me love it though

[Young_Gun]

Ummm we do not know the exact details on Roy Thomas Baker's inclusion or direction so we cannot fully comment on it. Again, working with others and taking their choice over you own are two totally different things. For all we know, it could have been at Axl's insistence that the parts were re-done to move away from the obsolete industrial feel that Sean Beaven gave to the songs. We do not know about that.

The band in the 80's were 5 parts equal members. It was not just Axl deciding what was on the songs. Sure Axl had more say over a song than say Adler, but Slash, Duff and Izzy could veto a decision or at least change things up. I don't believe for a second Ron or DJ could do that... Hell Ron has been harping on about recording new material with the band for 4 years now and it hasn't happened. Ron's, Brian's, Robin's etc solos were all comped by Axl and they had to relearn them later. Axl steers the ship.

Also, what do you think about Oh My God being a demo when Axl clearly gave it his blessing in his 1999 press release? He talks wind sometimes, we all know that.

The dynamic has obviously changed now. Instead of 5 guys jamming out in a van on the way back from a small gig and creating the basis for a song in 5 minutes, it's now 8 guys who are barely in the same room together outside of touringr and record their parts separately or at least without Axl. Axl then cuts, comps, mixes, combines those parts into what he thinks sounds good. Even in the UYI recording sessions, the members said Axl was rarely around. Certainly a far cry from the way they worked in the 80's.

We do know that Baker was instrumental in getting those parts re-recorded - unless we choose to consider Tommy a liar for saying this.

This I Love wasnt a case of "taking others choice over your own"- it was a case of being convinced by others that it was the way to go when yourself had misgivings. Seems like working with others to me.

How do we know that its just Axl who has 100% say in what ends up on the songs and is never for a moment open to anybody's advice/suggestions now? Nobody suggests that Ron or DJ etc could ride roughshod over Axl but that's very different from the idea that none of the guys in the band could ever have Axl's ear for even a single decision or influence a single action by him.

He gave Oh My God his blessing in 1999 but he kept working on it later so it suggests he wasnt fully satisfied with it- that might explain the use of the word demo. We also know that there was discussion about putting This I Love on What Dreams May Come in 1998 and yet there were additions to the song well after that so its a similar situation there.

Sure, the song-writing dynamic was different in the 80s but even there Axl was sitting separately when he wrote the lyrics to SCOM and that song was done despite Slash, Duff and Steven all expressing an initial lack of enthusiasm for it. What changes did Slash, Izzy and Duff made to song structures against Axl's will?

Lol.... Just.... Lol... He again makes NO mention in the press release alluding to in any way that it was a demo.

What's the lol about it? Leonardo da Vinci said that "art is never finished, its just abandoned"- that really seems like Axl's way of doing things. He likes to return to existing ideas time after time and keep developing them.

So with that notion all the songs on Chidem could be rendered as demos simply because Axl kept working on them post release. Funny. A demo ceases to be a demo once it is mixed, mastered and put out.

[rabia]

Ummm we do not know the exact details on Roy Thomas Baker's inclusion or direction so we cannot fully comment on it. Again, working with others and taking their choice over you own are two totally different things. For all we know, it could have been at Axl's insistence that the parts were re-done to move away from the obsolete industrial feel that Sean Beaven gave to the songs. We do not know about that.

The band in the 80's were 5 parts equal members. It was not just Axl deciding what was on the songs. Sure Axl had more say over a song than say Adler, but Slash, Duff and Izzy could veto a decision or at least change things up. I don't believe for a second Ron or DJ could do that... Hell Ron has been harping on about recording new material with the band for 4 years now and it hasn't happened. Ron's, Brian's, Robin's etc solos were all comped by Axl and they had to relearn them later. Axl steers the ship.

Also, what do you think about Oh My God being a demo when Axl clearly gave it his blessing in his 1999 press release? He talks wind sometimes, we all know that.

The dynamic has obviously changed now. Instead of 5 guys jamming out in a van on the way back from a small gig and creating the basis for a song in 5 minutes, it's now 8 guys who are barely in the same room together outside of touringr and record their parts separately or at least without Axl. Axl then cuts, comps, mixes, combines those parts into what he thinks sounds good. Even in the UYI recording sessions, the members said Axl was rarely around. Certainly a far cry from the way they worked in the 80's.

We do know that Baker was instrumental in getting those parts re-recorded - unless we choose to consider Tommy a liar for saying this.

This I Love wasnt a case of "taking others choice over your own"- it was a case of being convinced by others that it was the way to go when yourself had misgivings. Seems like working with others to me.

How do we know that its just Axl who has 100% say in what ends up on the songs and is never for a moment open to anybody's advice/suggestions now? Nobody suggests that Ron or DJ etc could ride roughshod over Axl but that's very different from the idea that none of the guys in the band could ever have Axl's ear for even a single decision or influence a single action by him.

He gave Oh My God his blessing in 1999 but he kept working on it later so it suggests he wasnt fully satisfied with it- that might explain the use of the word demo. We also know that there was discussion about putting This I Love on What Dreams May Come in 1998 and yet there were additions to the song well after that so its a similar situation there.

Sure, the song-writing dynamic was different in the 80s but even there Axl was sitting separately when he wrote the lyrics to SCOM and that song was done despite Slash, Duff and Steven all expressing an initial lack of enthusiasm for it. What changes did Slash, Izzy and Duff made to song structures against Axl's will?

Lol.... Just.... Lol... He again makes NO mention in the press release alluding to in any way that it was a demo.

What's the lol about it? Leonardo da Vinci said that "art is never finished, its just abandoned"- that really seems like Axl's way of doing things. He likes to return to existing ideas time after time and keep developing them.

So with that notion all the songs on Chidem could be rendered as demos simply because Axl kept working on them post release. Funny. A demo ceases to be a demo once it is mixed, mastered and put out.

Except that Oh My God hasnt been put out on a GN'R album yet and for all we know, adding more layers, mixing and mastering, continued after 1999. And we have no evidence that Axl has been continuing to work on Chinese Democracy songs post- November 2008.

[Nosaj Thing]

I don't know what's the problem with This I Love, I really like the song.

Me too. It's especially great live imo

I love the song... but I don't think it's that good live

It was hearing it live that really made me love it though

+1.

[Voodoochild]

So with that notion all the songs on Chidem could be rendered as demos simply because Axl kept working on them post release. Funny. A demo ceases to be a demo once it is mixed, mastered and put out.

Actually, some songs on Chinese sounds a lot like demos, like Scraped and Catcher, because of the awful mix.

[gnrjanus]

just the demo's of all the songs we've got since 2006 goes to show what people meant with there are more versions of all the songs or something like RTB wanted to rerecord some songs and change them.

Better was altered, Blues was altered, Chinese, Irs,twat to say the least... even If the world and catcher both songs have altered very much.

[Young_Gun]

Ummm we do not know the exact details on Roy Thomas Baker's inclusion or direction so we cannot fully comment on it. Again, working with others and taking their choice over you own are two totally different things. For all we know, it could have been at Axl's insistence that the parts were re-done to move away from the obsolete industrial feel that Sean Beaven gave to the songs. We do not know about that.

The band in the 80's were 5 parts equal members. It was not just Axl deciding what was on the songs. Sure Axl had more say over a song than say Adler, but Slash, Duff and Izzy could veto a decision or at least change things up. I don't believe for a second Ron or DJ could do that... Hell Ron has been harping on about recording new material with the band for 4 years now and it hasn't happened. Ron's, Brian's, Robin's etc solos were all comped by Axl and they had to relearn them later. Axl steers the ship.

Also, what do you think about Oh My God being a demo when Axl clearly gave it his blessing in his 1999 press release? He talks wind sometimes, we all know that.

The dynamic has obviously changed now. Instead of 5 guys jamming out in a van on the way back from a small gig and creating the basis for a song in 5 minutes, it's now 8 guys who are barely in the same room together outside of touringr and record their parts separately or at least without Axl. Axl then cuts, comps, mixes, combines those parts into what he thinks sounds good. Even in the UYI recording sessions, the members said Axl was rarely around. Certainly a far cry from the way they worked in the 80's.

We do know that Baker was instrumental in getting those parts re-recorded - unless we choose to consider Tommy a liar for saying this.

This I Love wasnt a case of "taking others choice over your own"- it was a case of being convinced by others that it was the way to go when yourself had misgivings. Seems like working with others to me.

How do we know that its just Axl who has 100% say in what ends up on the songs and is never for a moment open to anybody's advice/suggestions now? Nobody suggests that Ron or DJ etc could ride roughshod over Axl but that's very different from the idea that none of the guys in the band could ever have Axl's ear for even a single decision or influence a single action by him.

He gave Oh My God his blessing in 1999 but he kept working on it later so it suggests he wasnt fully satisfied with it- that might explain the use of the word demo. We also know that there was discussion about putting This I Love on What Dreams May Come in 1998 and yet there were additions to the song well after that so its a similar situation there.

Sure, the song-writing dynamic was different in the 80s but even there Axl was sitting separately when he wrote the lyrics to SCOM and that song was done despite Slash, Duff and Steven all expressing an initial lack of enthusiasm for it. What changes did Slash, Izzy and Duff made to song structures against Axl's will?

Lol.... Just.... Lol... He again makes NO mention in the press release alluding to in any way that it was a demo.

What's the lol about it? Leonardo da Vinci said that "art is never finished, its just abandoned"- that really seems like Axl's way of doing things. He likes to return to existing ideas time after time and keep developing them.

So with that notion all the songs on Chidem could be rendered as demos simply because Axl kept working on them post release. Funny. A demo ceases to be a demo once it is mixed, mastered and put out.

Except that Oh My God hasnt been put out on a GN'R album yet and for all we know, adding more layers, mixing and mastering, continued after 1999. And we have no evidence that Axl has been continuing to work on Chinese Democracy songs post- November 2008.

So any song that isn't on an album is a demo. Cool. Singles, soundtrack songs, B-sides etc are all demos.

[rabia]

Ummm we do not know the exact details on Roy Thomas Baker's inclusion or direction so we cannot fully comment on it. Again, working with others and taking their choice over you own are two totally different things. For all we know, it could have been at Axl's insistence that the parts were re-done to move away from the obsolete industrial feel that Sean Beaven gave to the songs. We do not know about that.

The band in the 80's were 5 parts equal members. It was not just Axl deciding what was on the songs. Sure Axl had more say over a song than say Adler, but Slash, Duff and Izzy could veto a decision or at least change things up. I don't believe for a second Ron or DJ could do that... Hell Ron has been harping on about recording new material with the band for 4 years now and it hasn't happened. Ron's, Brian's, Robin's etc solos were all comped by Axl and they had to relearn them later. Axl steers the ship.

Also, what do you think about Oh My God being a demo when Axl clearly gave it his blessing in his 1999 press release? He talks wind sometimes, we all know that.

The dynamic has obviously changed now. Instead of 5 guys jamming out in a van on the way back from a small gig and creating the basis for a song in 5 minutes, it's now 8 guys who are barely in the same room together outside of touringr and record their parts separately or at least without Axl. Axl then cuts, comps, mixes, combines those parts into what he thinks sounds good. Even in the UYI recording sessions, the members said Axl was rarely around. Certainly a far cry from the way they worked in the 80's.

We do know that Baker was instrumental in getting those parts re-recorded - unless we choose to consider Tommy a liar for saying this.

This I Love wasnt a case of "taking others choice over your own"- it was a case of being convinced by others that it was the way to go when yourself had misgivings. Seems like working with others to me.

How do we know that its just Axl who has 100% say in what ends up on the songs and is never for a moment open to anybody's advice/suggestions now? Nobody suggests that Ron or DJ etc could ride roughshod over Axl but that's very different from the idea that none of the guys in the band could ever have Axl's ear for even a single decision or influence a single action by him.

He gave Oh My God his blessing in 1999 but he kept working on it later so it suggests he wasnt fully satisfied with it- that might explain the use of the word demo. We also know that there was discussion about putting This I Love on What Dreams May Come in 1998 and yet there were additions to the song well after that so its a similar situation there.

Sure, the song-writing dynamic was different in the 80s but even there Axl was sitting separately when he wrote the lyrics to SCOM and that song was done despite Slash, Duff and Steven all expressing an initial lack of enthusiasm for it. What changes did Slash, Izzy and Duff made to song structures against Axl's will?

Lol.... Just.... Lol... He again makes NO mention in the press release alluding to in any way that it was a demo.

What's the lol about it? Leonardo da Vinci said that "art is never finished, its just abandoned"- that really seems like Axl's way of doing things. He likes to return to existing ideas time after time and keep developing them.

So with that notion all the songs on Chidem could be rendered as demos simply because Axl kept working on them post release. Funny. A demo ceases to be a demo once it is mixed, mastered and put out.

Except that Oh My God hasnt been put out on a GN'R album yet and for all we know, adding more layers, mixing and mastering, continued after 1999. And we have no evidence that Axl has been continuing to work on Chinese Democracy songs post- November 2008.

So any song that isn't on an album is a demo. Cool. Singles, soundtrack songs, B-sides etc are all demos.

If a single/ soundtrack song or B-side was presented to the world and that's where its journey of evolution in recording ended, I'd categorize it as a song. If on the other hand, you have an idea that is continuing to be developed, added to or subtracted from and new layers being brought in, then I would imagine that it is a demo in the artist's mind because work is on-going.

The state of completion of a creative work is rather subjective- some artists like things raw, others like it polished. Some would look at the same work and call it complete, others would consider it an early draft.

[Young_Gun]

Ummm we do not know the exact details on Roy Thomas Baker's inclusion or direction so we cannot fully comment on it. Again, working with others and taking their choice over you own are two totally different things. For all we know, it could have been at Axl's insistence that the parts were re-done to move away from the obsolete industrial feel that Sean Beaven gave to the songs. We do not know about that.

The band in the 80's were 5 parts equal members. It was not just Axl deciding what was on the songs. Sure Axl had more say over a song than say Adler, but Slash, Duff and Izzy could veto a decision or at least change things up. I don't believe for a second Ron or DJ could do that... Hell Ron has been harping on about recording new material with the band for 4 years now and it hasn't happened. Ron's, Brian's, Robin's etc solos were all comped by Axl and they had to relearn them later. Axl steers the ship.

Also, what do you think about Oh My God being a demo when Axl clearly gave it his blessing in his 1999 press release? He talks wind sometimes, we all know that.

The dynamic has obviously changed now. Instead of 5 guys jamming out in a van on the way back from a small gig and creating the basis for a song in 5 minutes, it's now 8 guys who are barely in the same room together outside of touringr and record their parts separately or at least without Axl. Axl then cuts, comps, mixes, combines those parts into what he thinks sounds good. Even in the UYI recording sessions, the members said Axl was rarely around. Certainly a far cry from the way they worked in the 80's.

We do know that Baker was instrumental in getting those parts re-recorded - unless we choose to consider Tommy a liar for saying this.

This I Love wasnt a case of "taking others choice over your own"- it was a case of being convinced by others that it was the way to go when yourself had misgivings. Seems like working with others to me.

How do we know that its just Axl who has 100% say in what ends up on the songs and is never for a moment open to anybody's advice/suggestions now? Nobody suggests that Ron or DJ etc could ride roughshod over Axl but that's very different from the idea that none of the guys in the band could ever have Axl's ear for even a single decision or influence a single action by him.

He gave Oh My God his blessing in 1999 but he kept working on it later so it suggests he wasnt fully satisfied with it- that might explain the use of the word demo. We also know that there was discussion about putting This I Love on What Dreams May Come in 1998 and yet there were additions to the song well after that so its a similar situation there.

Sure, the song-writing dynamic was different in the 80s but even there Axl was sitting separately when he wrote the lyrics to SCOM and that song was done despite Slash, Duff and Steven all expressing an initial lack of enthusiasm for it. What changes did Slash, Izzy and Duff made to song structures against Axl's will?

Lol.... Just.... Lol... He again makes NO mention in the press release alluding to in any way that it was a demo.

What's the lol about it? Leonardo da Vinci said that "art is never finished, its just abandoned"- that really seems like Axl's way of doing things. He likes to return to existing ideas time after time and keep developing them.

So with that notion all the songs on Chidem could be rendered as demos simply because Axl kept working on them post release. Funny. A demo ceases to be a demo once it is mixed, mastered and put out.

Except that Oh My God hasnt been put out on a GN'R album yet and for all we know, adding more layers, mixing and mastering, continued after 1999. And we have no evidence that Axl has been continuing to work on Chinese Democracy songs post- November 2008.

So any song that isn't on an album is a demo. Cool. Singles, soundtrack songs, B-sides etc are all demos.

If a single/ soundtrack song or B-side was presented to the world and that's where its journey of evolution in recording ended, I'd categorize it as a song. If on the other hand, you have an idea that is continuing to be developed, added to or subtracted from and new layers being brought in, then I would imagine that it is a demo in the artist's mind because work is on-going.

The state of completion of a creative work is rather subjective- some artists like things raw, others like it polished. Some would look at the same work and call it complete, others would consider it an early draft.

But the fact is, and this is a fact, Axl NEVER stated Oh My God was a demo in any way shape or form in the press release. In fact he used the term "final recording" specifically. It was only after it got vilified that he changed his tune. Your logic is flawed. With your notion, Metallica could re-record St Anger and polish up the songs into beasts and say the original St Anger was an album of demos...

[rabia]

Ummm we do not know the exact details on Roy Thomas Baker's inclusion or direction so we cannot fully comment on it. Again, working with others and taking their choice over you own are two totally different things. For all we know, it could have been at Axl's insistence that the parts were re-done to move away from the obsolete industrial feel that Sean Beaven gave to the songs. We do not know about that.

The band in the 80's were 5 parts equal members. It was not just Axl deciding what was on the songs. Sure Axl had more say over a song than say Adler, but Slash, Duff and Izzy could veto a decision or at least change things up. I don't believe for a second Ron or DJ could do that... Hell Ron has been harping on about recording new material with the band for 4 years now and it hasn't happened. Ron's, Brian's, Robin's etc solos were all comped by Axl and they had to relearn them later. Axl steers the ship.

Also, what do you think about Oh My God being a demo when Axl clearly gave it his blessing in his 1999 press release? He talks wind sometimes, we all know that.

The dynamic has obviously changed now. Instead of 5 guys jamming out in a van on the way back from a small gig and creating the basis for a song in 5 minutes, it's now 8 guys who are barely in the same room together outside of touringr and record their parts separately or at least without Axl. Axl then cuts, comps, mixes, combines those parts into what he thinks sounds good. Even in the UYI recording sessions, the members said Axl was rarely around. Certainly a far cry from the way they worked in the 80's.

We do know that Baker was instrumental in getting those parts re-recorded - unless we choose to consider Tommy a liar for saying this.

This I Love wasnt a case of "taking others choice over your own"- it was a case of being convinced by others that it was the way to go when yourself had misgivings. Seems like working with others to me.

How do we know that its just Axl who has 100% say in what ends up on the songs and is never for a moment open to anybody's advice/suggestions now? Nobody suggests that Ron or DJ etc could ride roughshod over Axl but that's very different from the idea that none of the guys in the band could ever have Axl's ear for even a single decision or influence a single action by him.

He gave Oh My God his blessing in 1999 but he kept working on it later so it suggests he wasnt fully satisfied with it- that might explain the use of the word demo. We also know that there was discussion about putting This I Love on What Dreams May Come in 1998 and yet there were additions to the song well after that so its a similar situation there.

Sure, the song-writing dynamic was different in the 80s but even there Axl was sitting separately when he wrote the lyrics to SCOM and that song was done despite Slash, Duff and Steven all expressing an initial lack of enthusiasm for it. What changes did Slash, Izzy and Duff made to song structures against Axl's will?

Lol.... Just.... Lol... He again makes NO mention in the press release alluding to in any way that it was a demo.

What's the lol about it? Leonardo da Vinci said that "art is never finished, its just abandoned"- that really seems like Axl's way of doing things. He likes to return to existing ideas time after time and keep developing them.

So with that notion all the songs on Chidem could be rendered as demos simply because Axl kept working on them post release. Funny. A demo ceases to be a demo once it is mixed, mastered and put out.

Except that Oh My God hasnt been put out on a GN'R album yet and for all we know, adding more layers, mixing and mastering, continued after 1999. And we have no evidence that Axl has been continuing to work on Chinese Democracy songs post- November 2008.

So any song that isn't on an album is a demo. Cool. Singles, soundtrack songs, B-sides etc are all demos.

If a single/ soundtrack song or B-side was presented to the world and that's where its journey of evolution in recording ended, I'd categorize it as a song. If on the other hand, you have an idea that is continuing to be developed, added to or subtracted from and new layers being brought in, then I would imagine that it is a demo in the artist's mind because work is on-going.

The state of completion of a creative work is rather subjective- some artists like things raw, others like it polished. Some would look at the same work and call it complete, others would consider it an early draft.

But the fact is, and this is a fact, Axl NEVER stated Oh My God was a demo in any way shape or form in the press release. In fact he used the term "final recording" specifically. It was only after it got vilified that he changed his tune. Your logic is flawed. With your notion, Metallica could re-record St Anger and polish up the songs into beasts and say the original St Anger was an album of demos...

If he was so disturbed about the vilification, he could have just stopped talking about the song or working on it altogether and just let it be forgotten as the bygone of a transitional age. Instead by continuing to keep it on proposed setlists and re-doing it, he has ensured that it remains a continuing story for GN'R fans. Its not as if he hasnt received vilification for any songs before- he's made no attempts to re-do One in a Million or Get in the Ring.

Actually, its your logic that's flawed. You've made declarations that there's no way anybody could have convinced Axl to put This I Love on CD because they are "paid" people and yet there's a clear record of "paid" people influencing previous recordings and band decisions.

[sweetness]

Its not as if he hasnt received vilification for any songs before- he's made no attempts to re-do One in a Million or Get in the Ring.

Now you're making points against yourself

[rabia]

Its not as if he hasnt received vilification for any songs before- he's made no attempts to re-do One in a Million or Get in the Ring.

Now you're making points against yourself

How is that a point against myself?

What I'm saying is that if we are to trace Axl's reaction to vilification of songs, we can see One in Million or Get in a Ring as examples. He made no attempt to explain away those songs as demos. So trying to characterize his approach to Oh My God as a face-moving move in response to vilification doesn't line up with historical precedent.

[sweetness]

Its not as if he hasnt received vilification for any songs before- he's made no attempts to re-do One in a Million or Get in the Ring.

Now you're making points against yourself

How is that a point against myself?

What I'm saying is that if we are to trace Axl's reaction to vilification of songs, we can see One in Million or Get in a Ring as examples. He made no attempt to explain away those songs as demos. So trying to characterize his approach to Oh My God as a face-moving move in response to vilification doesn't line up with historical precedent.

Never mind the massively important detail that Oh My God was the first studio recording he released from his re-invented GNR. One In a Million and GITR were from the classic lineup that was already a household name, no need to backtrack when you're band is also receiving 10 times the praise it is criticism.

Edited April 4, 2012 by sweetness

[rabia]

Its not as if he hasnt received vilification for any songs before- he's made no attempts to re-do One in a Million or Get in the Ring.

Now you're making points against yourself

How is that a point against myself?

What I'm saying is that if we are to trace Axl's reaction to vilification of songs, we can see One in Million or Get in a Ring as examples. He made no attempt to explain away those songs as demos. So trying to characterize his approach to Oh My God as a face-moving move in response to vilification doesn't line up with historical precedent.

Never mind the massively important detail that Oh My God was the first studio recording he released from his re-invented GNR. One In a Million and GITR were from the classic lineup that was already a household name, no need to backtrack when you're band is also receiving 10 times the praise it is criticism.

Both One in a Million and Get in the Ring were massive controversies to the point that even to this day, they are very often referred to when people outline the history of Axl/ GN'R. So I would assume that there would be plenty of reason to backtrack. If you compare the amount of media space given to the unflattering commentary generated from those two songs and compare it to Oh My God, you're likely to find much more negativity focused on the first two in terms of sheer bulk and intensity.

Edited April 4, 2012 by rabia

[eggers]

Oh My God was criticised for being a shit song, not for having objectionable (to some) lyrical content. Totally different circumstances. No one said one In A Million was a bad song.

Edited April 4, 2012 by eggers

[rabia]

Oh My God was criticised for being a shit song, not for having objectionable (to some) lyrical content. Totally different circumstances. No one said one In A Million was a bad song.

But Axl never tried to say, hey we were only blowing some steam in the studio during Get in the Ring, he squared off against the reaction. He stood behind even a song like One in a Million which hurt his career in a big way and lead to a characterization of Axl which has been extremely difficult to shake off. Most people will be able to forget/ excuse a bad song- how many artists can claim never to have made one? But charges of racism/homophobia and xenophobia all in the same song- you're likely to have everlasting opposition in some quarters.

The fact that he did continue to work on Oh My God later seems to suggest that he's invested in the song as some level. A "shit song" suffering from being panned by critics would be better off just buried, not re-worked for a possible later release and continued presence on the proposed setlist.

Also Chinese Democracy itself has received an overall disappointing reception but Axl has made no attempt to distance himself from its creative vision- he has said that the journey could have been more pleasant but the end product is what really matters. He also said that those who didn't like CD wouldn't like the next album either, again showing that he sticks by the work on CD rather than making any excuses or apologies for it. So why would Oh My God be so different that he'd have to hide behind the demo statement there? Its obvious that CD, the album was way more important for Axl's career than Oh My God individually.

[sweetness]

Both One in a Million and Get in the Ring were massive controversies to the point that even to this day, they are very often referred to when people outline the history of Axl/ GN'R. So I would assume that there would be plenty of reason to backtrack. If you compare the amount of media space given to the unflattering commentary generated from those two songs and compare it to Oh My God, you're likely to find much more negativity focused on the first two in terms of sheer bulk and intensity.

Not even close to the point.

Axl back tracked after the criticism he got from Oh My God because it was the first song released without the former members, the first impression to the public of his new band, and it was clearly taking things in a new direction musically. It has nothing to do with how much criticism it received and everything to do with the fact it was the first song we heard from the new band. One In A Million and Get In The Ring were controversial for their LYRICS, I don't see how you can compare that with a song that was getting slammed by critics for the overall sound of the music and production.

Who cares anyway? The song rocks as it is and doesn't need any more layers or added production. I don't see why you feel the need to make excuses for Axl, we're all huge fans of his.

[sweetness]

The fact that he did continue to work on Oh My God later seems to suggest that he's invested in the song as some level. A "shit song" suffering from being panned by critics would be better off just buried, not re-worked for a possible later release and continued presence on the proposed setlist.

So... you think artists should take the critics seriously enough to the point where they tweak their work BECAUSE SOME FUCKING CRITICS DIDN'T LIKE IT???

That's pretty disgraceful

[One.In.A.Million]

The fact that he did continue to work on Oh My God later seems to suggest that he's invested in the song as some level. A "shit song" suffering from being panned by critics would be better off just buried, not re-worked for a possible later release and continued presence on the proposed setlist.

So... you think artists should take the critics seriously enough to the point where they tweak their work BECAUSE SOME FUCKING CRITICS DIDN'T LIKE IT???

That's pretty disgraceful

This...

Oh My God needs to be on the next album, and needs to start being played live... PERIOD. rock2

[Young_Gun]

Ummm we do not know the exact details on Roy Thomas Baker's inclusion or direction so we cannot fully comment on it. Again, working with others and taking their choice over you own are two totally different things. For all we know, it could have been at Axl's insistence that the parts were re-done to move away from the obsolete industrial feel that Sean Beaven gave to the songs. We do not know about that.

The band in the 80's were 5 parts equal members. It was not just Axl deciding what was on the songs. Sure Axl had more say over a song than say Adler, but Slash, Duff and Izzy could veto a decision or at least change things up. I don't believe for a second Ron or DJ could do that... Hell Ron has been harping on about recording new material with the band for 4 years now and it hasn't happened. Ron's, Brian's, Robin's etc solos were all comped by Axl and they had to relearn them later. Axl steers the ship.

Also, what do you think about Oh My God being a demo when Axl clearly gave it his blessing in his 1999 press release? He talks wind sometimes, we all know that.

The dynamic has obviously changed now. Instead of 5 guys jamming out in a van on the way back from a small gig and creating the basis for a song in 5 minutes, it's now 8 guys who are barely in the same room together outside of touringr and record their parts separately or at least without Axl. Axl then cuts, comps, mixes, combines those parts into what he thinks sounds good. Even in the UYI recording sessions, the members said Axl was rarely around. Certainly a far cry from the way they worked in the 80's.

We do know that Baker was instrumental in getting those parts re-recorded - unless we choose to consider Tommy a liar for saying this.

This I Love wasnt a case of "taking others choice over your own"- it was a case of being convinced by others that it was the way to go when yourself had misgivings. Seems like working with others to me.

How do we know that its just Axl who has 100% say in what ends up on the songs and is never for a moment open to anybody's advice/suggestions now? Nobody suggests that Ron or DJ etc could ride roughshod over Axl but that's very different from the idea that none of the guys in the band could ever have Axl's ear for even a single decision or influence a single action by him.

He gave Oh My God his blessing in 1999 but he kept working on it later so it suggests he wasnt fully satisfied with it- that might explain the use of the word demo. We also know that there was discussion about putting This I Love on What Dreams May Come in 1998 and yet there were additions to the song well after that so its a similar situation there.

Sure, the song-writing dynamic was different in the 80s but even there Axl was sitting separately when he wrote the lyrics to SCOM and that song was done despite Slash, Duff and Steven all expressing an initial lack of enthusiasm for it. What changes did Slash, Izzy and Duff made to song structures against Axl's will?

Lol.... Just.... Lol... He again makes NO mention in the press release alluding to in any way that it was a demo.

What's the lol about it? Leonardo da Vinci said that "art is never finished, its just abandoned"- that really seems like Axl's way of doing things. He likes to return to existing ideas time after time and keep developing them.

So with that notion all the songs on Chidem could be rendered as demos simply because Axl kept working on them post release. Funny. A demo ceases to be a demo once it is mixed, mastered and put out.

Except that Oh My God hasnt been put out on a GN'R album yet and for all we know, adding more layers, mixing and mastering, continued after 1999. And we have no evidence that Axl has been continuing to work on Chinese Democracy songs post- November 2008.

So any song that isn't on an album is a demo. Cool. Singles, soundtrack songs, B-sides etc are all demos.

If a single/ soundtrack song or B-side was presented to the world and that's where its journey of evolution in recording ended, I'd categorize it as a song. If on the other hand, you have an idea that is continuing to be developed, added to or subtracted from and new layers being brought in, then I would imagine that it is a demo in the artist's mind because work is on-going.

The state of completion of a creative work is rather subjective- some artists like things raw, others like it polished. Some would look at the same work and call it complete, others would consider it an early draft.

But the fact is, and this is a fact, Axl NEVER stated Oh My God was a demo in any way shape or form in the press release. In fact he used the term "final recording" specifically. It was only after it got vilified that he changed his tune. Your logic is flawed. With your notion, Metallica could re-record St Anger and polish up the songs into beasts and say the original St Anger was an album of demos...

If he was so disturbed about the vilification, he could have just stopped talking about the song or working on it altogether and just let it be forgotten as the bygone of a transitional age. Instead by continuing to keep it on proposed setlists and re-doing it, he has ensured that it remains a continuing story for GN'R fans. Its not as if he hasnt received vilification for any songs before- he's made no attempts to re-do One in a Million or Get in the Ring.

Actually, its your logic that's flawed. You've made declarations that there's no way anybody could have convinced Axl to put This I Love on CD because they are "paid" people and yet there's a clear record of "paid" people influencing previous recordings and band decisions.

Your bias and unwillingness to admit anything Axl does can be wrong is funny. Remains a continuing story for GN'R Fans? BAHAHAHAHA.

[Nosaj Thing]

^ I hate pyramid thread.

[Guest gunns5]

You racist ass, leave the Egyptians alone

[rabia]

The fact that he did continue to work on Oh My God later seems to suggest that he's invested in the song as some level. A "shit song" suffering from being panned by critics would be better off just buried, not re-worked for a possible later release and continued presence on the proposed setlist.

So... you think artists should take the critics seriously enough to the point where they tweak their work BECAUSE SOME FUCKING CRITICS DIDN'T LIKE IT???

That's pretty disgraceful

I think it should be pretty obvious if you read the previous posts that I'm simply responded to the logic that Young Gun and Eggers have applied to the song, not stating my own opinion on how artists should approach their art. I most certainly do not think that critics should dictate an artists' musical direction i- infact one reason I admire Axl is because he's willing to live with even infuriating large sections of the fans themselves by choosing musical styles he can anticipate their being alienated by.

The argument is that Axl responded to vilification of Oh My God by calling it a demo. I'm asking if that was indeed the case and he cant handle vilification, why would he keep working on the song and keep it alive in the fans' minds? It simply does not add up.