Powerage5 Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Bill thinks he's good enough to play the entire set and doesn't want to take the risk of being replaced should his drumming not be adequate anymoreTony, Geezer and Ozzy don't want to take that risk, were willing to give him a try and see how it went, while keeping someone backstage who could fill in if need beI have to side with the 3 guys on this one. Reunion or not, if you're incapable of sufficiently doing something as important to the structure of the song as drumming is, you can't play the show.It's not an issue of being able to play a full set or not, Bill is capable of that. It's a matter of the rest of the Sabbath camp wanting to belittle Bill's involvement and role in Sabbath.Going back to my Vinnie Appice comment, I'm glad no one took it the wrong way, but I'd like to clarify. I didn't mean to sound like I thought Vinnie should replace Bill, because when it comes to the original Sabbath its those 4 guys, and no one else. I was just saying I wouldn't call Bill an essential element of the Sabbath sound as a be all, end all...just the original lineup. Glad no one jumped down my throat given the opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) I was just saying I wouldn't call Bill an essential element of the Sabbath sound as a be all, end all...just the original lineup. Not sure I agree with that. There are some drummers who are essential to a bands sound like John Bonham, Keith Moon, Corky Lang ( Mountain) who just can't be replaced by any drummer. I think Steven was that type of drummer in Guns...Bill played some unusual time signatures in BS music to the point where he almost sounded like he was a beat behind the rest of the band but it really added a distinct sound to the music.I am a huge Mountain fan and have lots of bootlegs and I could tell you in a second which shows Corky Lang is not drumming on as he took leaves from the band from time to time.Not that they are the best technically but some drummers just can't be replaced without changing the sound and feel of the music IMHO....... Edited May 24, 2012 by classicrawker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Classic Rock MagazineBLACK SABBATH PLAY INTIMATE HOMETOWN GIG AS BILL WARD BUST-UP INTENSIFIES What a week it's been for Black Sabbath!The reunited band played an up-close-and-personal show in their hometown of Birmingham, warming up for their forthcoming appearance at the Download festival. But the ongoing disagreements with original member Bill Ward meant that Tommy Clufetos, from Ozzy Osbourne's solo band, deputised on drums.Meanwhile, the so-called 'Sabs Opera' cranked up another gear when all photos of Ward were mysteriously removed from the Sabbath website. People initially blamed the band… until it emerged that Ward's attorney had initiated the move. Ward then complained that he had been snubbed by Sabs bassist Geezer Butler and that, contrary to rumours, he would have been happy to play the Brum gig for free.Still, there was some heartening news: at Saturday’s warm-up show the audience hailed Tony Iommi’s fight back from cancer by chanting his name, a moment which clearly moved the guitarist.Check out the links below to read about the whole amazing drama.Geezer Butler snubbed me says Bill Wardhttp://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/geezer-butler-snubbed-me-says-bill-ward/?ns_service=mail&ns_robot=partner-Adestra&ns_campaign=1899&ns_source=Adestra&ns_mchannel=email-n&ns_linkname=Geezer%20Butler%20snubbed%20me%20says%20Bill%20Ward&ns_fee=0&ns_recipient=green_acres1%40charter.net&ns_mail_uid=60&ns_mail_job=2725 Bill Ward wiped from Sabbath websitehttp://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/black-sabbath-wipe-bill-ward-from-photo-history/?ns_service=mail&ns_robot=partner-Adestra&ns_campaign=1899&ns_source=Adestra&ns_mchannel=email-n&ns_linkname=Bill%20Ward%20wiped%20from%20Sabbath%20website&ns_fee=0&ns_recipient=green_acres1%40charter.net&ns_mail_uid=60&ns_mail_job=2725 Black Sabbath reunion review and setlist http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/black-sabbath-reunion-review-setlist-iommi-moved-as-crowd-chant-his-name/?ns_service=mail&ns_robot=partner-Adestra&ns_campaign=1899&ns_source=Adestra&ns_mchannel=email-n&ns_linkname=Black%20Sabbath%20reunion%20review%20and%20setlist&ns_fee=0&ns_recipient=green_acres1%40charter.net&ns_mail_uid=60&ns_mail_job=2725Bill Ward contract claim was 'joke'http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/bill-ward-contract-claim-was-joke/?ns_service=mail&ns_robot=partner-Adestra&ns_campaign=1899&ns_source=Adestra&ns_mchannel=email-n&ns_linkname=Bill%20Ward%20contract%20claim%20was%20%27joke%27&ns_fee=0&ns_recipient=green_acres1%40charter.net&ns_mail_uid=60&ns_mail_job=2725 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrandyk Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I don't know how capable he is today, but back on the first 4 albums Bill was definitely largely instrumental to their sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoSoRose Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 this whole thing is just so sad.maybe bill should have taken a smaller cut, maybe the band was wrongbut all the back and forth and the website fiasco is just so sad. dunno if im going to even try the lolla gig now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 I don't know how capable he is today, but back on the first 4 albums Bill was definitely largely instrumental to their sound.in 2005 he was able to do it, they had vinny waiting behind the curtain just in case but they never used had to go to him. i think for 3 or 4 shows bill would have been fine to play IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsh327 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Bill or no Bill, the recording from the warmup gig is great. Ozzy sounds really good, too.Also, not sure why people are shitting all over Sharon - until someone shows me evidence that it's in any way her fault, I have nothing against her.She's doing 2 TV shows. To me, the incident with her accountant a while ago tells me she's minimally involved in Ozzy's career. She prob. coordinates Ozzfest and probably when Black Sabbath was initially getting together, she was there, but she hasn't been involved in rehearsals or the new recordings. It's mostly Tony and his manager's decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabbath Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Bill or no Bill, the recording from the warmup gig is great. Ozzy sounds really good, too.Also, not sure why people are shitting all over Sharon - until someone shows me evidence that it's in any way her fault, I have nothing against her.She's doing 2 TV shows. To me, the incident with her accountant a while ago tells me she's minimally involved in Ozzy's career. She prob. coordinates Ozzfest and probably when Black Sabbath was initially getting together, she was there, but she hasn't been involved in rehearsals or the new recordings. It's mostly Tony and his manager's decision.Exactly.Except for when is comes to Ozzy solo (and even then, she doesn't have as much as an influence on him as a person as people think), Sharon has nothing to do with Ozzy or especially Black Sabbath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I was just saying I wouldn't call Bill an essential element of the Sabbath sound as a be all, end all...just the original lineup. Not sure I agree with that. There are some drummers who are essential to a bands sound like John Bonham, Keith Moon, Corky Lang ( Mountain) who just can't be replaced by any drummer. I think Steven was that type of drummer in Guns...Bill played some unusual time signatures in BS music to the point where he almost sounded like he was a beat behind the rest of the band but it really added a distinct sound to the music.I am a huge Mountain fan and have lots of bootlegs and I could tell you in a second which shows Corky Lang is not drumming on as he took leaves from the band from time to time.Not that they are the best technically but some drummers just can't be replaced without changing the sound and feel of the music IMHO.......Bill wouldn't have been right for anything post-Ozzy, that is the point I'm trying to make, to put it another way. He just wasn't the right fit anymore once Dio came in, and Heaven And Hell is proof of that. Vinnie really brought a whole new dimension to the drumming on those songs when he played them live, and he was the perfect fit for the Dio era. As far as I'm concerned, The Mob Rules is the best Sabbath album ever, because the 4 members gelled so well together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 I was just saying I wouldn't call Bill an essential element of the Sabbath sound as a be all, end all...just the original lineup. Not sure I agree with that. There are some drummers who are essential to a bands sound like John Bonham, Keith Moon, Corky Lang ( Mountain) who just can't be replaced by any drummer. I think Steven was that type of drummer in Guns...Bill played some unusual time signatures in BS music to the point where he almost sounded like he was a beat behind the rest of the band but it really added a distinct sound to the music.I am a huge Mountain fan and have lots of bootlegs and I could tell you in a second which shows Corky Lang is not drumming on as he took leaves from the band from time to time.Not that they are the best technically but some drummers just can't be replaced without changing the sound and feel of the music IMHO.......Bill wouldn't have been right for anything post-Ozzy, that is the point I'm trying to make, to put it another way. He just wasn't the right fit anymore once Dio came in, and Heaven And Hell is proof of that. Vinnie really brought a whole new dimension to the drumming on those songs when he played them live, and he was the perfect fit for the Dio era. As far as I'm concerned, The Mob Rules is the best Sabbath album ever, because the 4 members gelled so well together.heaven and hell is my favortie but mob rules is second the mob rules era of sabbath gelled so well even during heaven and hell since vinny did most of the heaven and hell tour. its a real shame we didnt get 8 or 9 albums from this lineup i love born again and the tony martin era as well but man the dio/appice/butler/iommi era was special Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I was just saying I wouldn't call Bill an essential element of the Sabbath sound as a be all, end all...just the original lineup. Not sure I agree with that. There are some drummers who are essential to a bands sound like John Bonham, Keith Moon, Corky Lang ( Mountain) who just can't be replaced by any drummer. I think Steven was that type of drummer in Guns...Bill played some unusual time signatures in BS music to the point where he almost sounded like he was a beat behind the rest of the band but it really added a distinct sound to the music.I am a huge Mountain fan and have lots of bootlegs and I could tell you in a second which shows Corky Lang is not drumming on as he took leaves from the band from time to time.Not that they are the best technically but some drummers just can't be replaced without changing the sound and feel of the music IMHO.......Bill wouldn't have been right for anything post-Ozzy, that is the point I'm trying to make, to put it another way. He just wasn't the right fit anymore once Dio came in, and Heaven And Hell is proof of that. Vinnie really brought a whole new dimension to the drumming on those songs when he played them live, and he was the perfect fit for the Dio era. As far as I'm concerned, The Mob Rules is the best Sabbath album ever, because the 4 members gelled so well together.Sorry I did not catch your drift in the original post and I agree 100% Bill was not the right drummer for the Dio era...And I prefer Heaven and Hell to Mob Rules but both albums kick ass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 On the topic of Black Sabbath, does anyone else not discredit the post-Dio eras?This song is fucking dope: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 On the topic of Black Sabbath, does anyone else not discredit the post-Dio eras?This song is fucking dope: I love every era of Sabbath to some extent. As far as the Tony Martin stuff goes, I really love Eternal Idol and Headless Cross (The title track of the latter is in my top 5 Sabbath songs across all eras). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) On the topic of Black Sabbath, does anyone else not discredit the post-Dio eras?This song is fucking dope: great song but i prefer tony martins versionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQtHI0yJDboancient warrior has a badass riff from eternal idol as well love all of sabbath from ozzy to tony martin and everything in between i like forbidden as well(waits to get pelted with garbage) my fave post ozzy/dio albums would be probaby born again,headless cross, cross purposes the eternal idol lineup was sicktony martin- vocalstony iommi- guitarbob daisley- basseric singer- drums Edited May 27, 2012 by bran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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