Is it critical for Axl to have big hit songs on the next GNR record?

[Rustycage]

I know you think so highly of yourself but you ARE stretching what YOU consider relevant chartwise to make the song seem more popular than it really was. Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand. So, tell everyone again how you are soooo informed and everyone else is dumb. The irony is thick.

[vaida]

It would help boost the ego.

[downzy]

If you want to talk about pop radio, neither had a hit.

Actually, this isn't quite true, as "Chinese Democracy" peaked at 34 on the Billboard Hot 100, which would make it a top 40 hit. Velvet Revolver did not accomplish this feat (though both Slither and Fall to Pieces reached #1 on the Billboard Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks - something Axl/Guns has actually never done, even during the AFD and UYI era).

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited June 7, 2012 by downzy

[finck6]

If you want to talk about pop radio, neither had a hit.

Actually, this isn't quite true, as "Chinese Democracy" peaked at 34 on the Billboard Hot 100, which would make it a top 40 hit. Velvet Revolver did not accomplish this feat (though both Slither and Fall to Pieces reached #1 on the Billboard Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks - something Axl/Guns has actually never done, even during the AFD and UYI era).

Cheers,

Andrew

if axl promoted chinese democracy with robin.....chinese democracy the song would've peaked at #1 on the billboard hot 100 singles chart

Edited June 7, 2012 by finck6

[Dazey]

If you want to talk about pop radio, neither had a hit.

Actually, this isn't quite true, as "Chinese Democracy" peaked at 34 on the Billboard Hot 100, which would make it a top 40 hit. Velvet Revolver did not accomplish this feat (though both Slither and Fall to Pieces reached #1 on the Billboard Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks - something Axl/Guns has actually never done, even during the AFD and UYI era).

Cheers,

Andrew

Oh don't get him started fella, he's already spammed the shit out of this thread enough and he's gonna prattle on for another 20 pages now!

[finck6]

In someways GNR never was mainstream even in 91 only GNR did Nov Rain type ballad.

It definitely seems harder to have a hit with a rock song these days.

But without promo well never know.

It might have helped if cd singles were available to buy in the record store. With some b sides. I'm so 90s.

if robin was in the band in 2008.....the TIL music video would've been HUGE. bigger than november rain. bigger than 90's music videos. if robin was around.....the TIL video would be a big hit on the new MTV called FUSE

[funeral.]

Axl needs a Hit Song like a Crack-addict needs a Hit ....

[Bobbo]

If you want to talk about pop radio, neither had a hit.

Actually, this isn't quite true, as "Chinese Democracy" peaked at 34 on the Billboard Hot 100, which would make it a top 40 hit. Velvet Revolver did not accomplish this feat (though both Slither and Fall to Pieces reached #1 on the Billboard Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks - something Axl/Guns has actually never done, even during the AFD and UYI era).

Cheers,

Andrew

Oh don't get him started fella, he's already spammed the shit out of this thread enough and he's gonna prattle on for another 20 pages now!

That 34 peak was for one week and one week only. It was literally the first taste that people have gotten from the long awaited finished product, and was literally off the hot 100 the next week.

Although slither and ftp didn't peak as high on the top 100, ( I think slither hit somewhere in the 50s and ftp hit somewhere in the 60s), both songs STAYED at number one for several weeks on the rock charts. What does that tell you?

Edited June 7, 2012 by Bobbo

[Dazey]

That 34 peak was for one week and one week only. It was literally the first taste that people have gotten from the long awaited finished product, and was literally off the hot 100 the next week.

Although slither and ftp didn't peak as high on the top 100, ( I think slither hit somewhere in the 50s and ftp hit somewhere in the 60s), both songs STAYED at number one for several weeks on the rock charts. What does that tell you?

Tells me that the big fella's full o' shit but then we all already knew that didn't we?

[SONOFABITCH]

Axl doesn't really need to do anything. Even if his voice is at 80% of what is was in the early 90's, Axl is making good money right now. With ownership of the band name and good ticket sales, he can pretty much do whatever he wants. He is never going to be as big as he was 20 years ago. That ship has sailed. I don't think Axl needs to be that big, I don't think he wants to be that big. He is calling the shots, getting a huge taste of profits, seeing the world, wearing expensive jewelery, and doing whatever he wants. He doesn't need to record an album at all. He will always be able to draw enough of a crowd to make money. If he has to go to South American, Europe or Asia to do it, that is what he will do.

[Dazey]

Dazey -

Not surprised that now that you realize you were completely wrong that you're lashing out and resorting to expletives. Have a great day man.

Talking about ya not to ya buddy! It's pointless arguing with you about anything! You just don't seem to understand that just because you don't shut up and people get bored of talking to you it doesn't make you right.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Dazey

[Dazey]

um, randy said GNR had no hits w/o slash. that wasn't true. the end. anything you've said has just been you attacking me or you being angry that i was correct. just PM me in the future if your only interest is speaking ill of me.

But that was never what I said or what I was referring to! I never mentioned Randy, nor did I mention Slash or anybody else. All I did was refer directly to the post above my own where you used a specific example of Better being a top five hit. My only point was that myself and many others wouldn't consider that as a hit. Here, have another look at my exact words!

Better Link

Well that's not really a hit as most would consider it. Whenever you say top 5 hit to anybody they normally think of the Billboard Hot 100.

I was even being civil for once and you were the one that attacked me I think you'll find!

i'd love to know what your qualifications are though in the american music industry. it would help add some context to whether your opinion on american music charts is something the rest of us should consider. thanks.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Dazey

[combos]

Alright alright, I've tried to be nice. But at some point some of you guys are going to have to stop replying to threads you haven't read.

As has already been explained MULTIPLE times in this thread, Randy claimed that Slash had several hits after leaving GNR, but that GNR hadn't had any hits since he left.

Slash's hits were on the ROCK CHARTS, not the overall pop charts. GNR had two hit singles from Chinese Democracy, both charting in the top 5 of the ROCK CHARTS (Chinese #5, Better #3).

Another hilarious example of the double standard that is applied to GNR. If Slash has a top 5 hit on rock radio, that counts, but if GNR does it, that doesn't count.

Fucking brilliant.

I'll stop now before I risk upsetting a mod.

When someone says "top 5 hit" they're referring to the pop charts which are the most popular songs. That's why I asked for a link because I KNEW CD wasn't a hit. SCOM and Paradise City were their only top 5 "hits" and the only top 5 hits for ANY of them, post GNR or whatever.

Edited June 7, 2012 by combos

[finck6]

Axl needs a Hit Song like a Crack-addict needs a Hit ....

robin finck's TIL is the hit song axl needs for release on radio airplay

[downzy]

Humorously, even though you and I are often on opposite ends of a debate, I find you to be one of the most honest and informed posters here and it's always a pleasure discussing things with you.

Thanks MSL, I've got no beefs with you and have enjoyed our conversations/debates. I do disagree that you and I are on the opposite ends of the spectrum on all matters. I'll give credit where credit is due, but call out bullshit if that's the way I see it. Axl is a human being and is entitled to his mistakes, but not the excuses often given for the mistakes.

Anyone arguing that it's better to have a #1 song on the Billboard Hot Mainstream Rock versus a top forty hit on the Hot 100 chart doesn't know what they're talking about. It is true that Velvet Revolver's hits likely stayed on the charts longer, and that Chinese Democracy reached its peak position early on its life cycle due to the curiosity of what GNR had been up to for so many years, but the reality is that Axl had a higher charting song than Velvet Revolver on the chart that matters. Now, would a song of Axl banging the bongos had charted just as well as Chinese Democracy did? Well, that's another question.

Ultimately, any argument about "hits" is for the most part a silly argument to begin with. GNR was never really about hits. Technically speaking, they are a one-hit wonder (as defined by only having one #1 hit), but so were Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and Aerosmith (and Aerosmith's only #1 hit wasn't even a song they wrote, that horrible Armageddon song that I thankfully can't remember the name of).

GNR's popularity and relevance were never about hits so I find it odd that people are so caught up on this. Worrying about GNR's ability to please the masses has never been an issue that I concern myself with. So long as Axl and the band can remain economically viable is what most fans here should be concerned about. I would suggest people stop looking for chart success or album sales as means for validating your own personal preferences. Makes being a "fan" a lot easier.

Cheers,

Andrew

Edited June 7, 2012 by downzy

[Randy Lahey]

VR's hit songs like Slither and Fall To Pieces got played on radio for months whereas CD's songs like Better and Chinese Democracy got airplay for maybe a week each. Chinese Democracy was a complete failure in America.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Randy Lahey

[finck6]

VR's hit songs like Slither and Fall To Pieces got played on radio for months whereas CD's songs like Better and Chinese Democracy got airplay for maybe a week each. Chinese Democracy was a complete failure in America.

chinese democracy the album wasn't a fruitful success like the illusions cause axl didn't properly promote the record in advance. and robin wasn't around at the time either

[Apollo]

rusty cage -

nobody is bending or stretching anything. randy mentioned the rock hits slash had, but claimed gnr didnt have any w/o slash. that wasnt true. gnr had two top five hits on the same charts slash had his hits.

if you don't have any knowledge of american music charts, please do not accuse others of manipulation to mask your own ignorance. thanks.

Always with the insults when you disagree with somebody.

And what is with always asking people if they work in the music industry when they post an opinion about the music industry?

I'm not a doctor, does that mean I'm not allowed to comment on a physician's work?

And you whine about people calling you fat or when they insult you.....but you insult somebody in almost every post you do.

Why can't you just discuss and debate issues with those you disagree with, without always having to insult them or make personal attacks?

[Randy Lahey]

Fact is that Chinese Democracy has no songs on it that are well known by the general public in America. And the album had no staying power on the charts.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Randy Lahey

[combos]

but where were you when Randy was touting all of Slash's hits?

I never touted anything of the sort lol. Slash has never had a top 5 hit on the pop charts. GNR has only had two. Paradise City and SCOM.

Edited June 8, 2012 by combos

[Crash Diet]

i don't think you understood the question. is english your first language?

Do you want to wrestle me?

[shotgunblues1978]

Having a hit song in this era is almost entirely up to how hard the label pushes a song. This has been true for decades, but it's more true today than it's ever been before. There are very few "grass roots" hits these days, and by that I mean songs that chart high and receive a lot of radio airplay without much label support.

The big record labels and the big radio stations (Clear Channel) are in bed with each other. The big radio stations (ones that actually have an audience) basically play what the labels want them to play.

[Rustycage]

VR's hit songs like Slither and Fall To Pieces got played on radio for months whereas CD's songs like Better and Chinese Democracy got airplay for maybe a week each. Chinese Democracy was a complete failure in America.

chinese democracy the album wasn't a fruitful success like the illusions cause axl didn't properly promote the record in advance. and robin wasn't around at the time either

LOL what?! Everyone and their grandmother knew of Chinese Democracy. The album promoted itself. That is until people actually heard it.

[downzy]

VR's hit songs like Slither and Fall To Pieces got played on radio for months whereas CD's songs like Better and Chinese Democracy got airplay for maybe a week each. Chinese Democracy was a complete failure in America.

chinese democracy the album wasn't a fruitful success like the illusions cause axl didn't properly promote the record in advance. and robin wasn't around at the time either

LOL what?! Everyone and their grandmother knew of Chinese Democracy. The album promoted itself. That is until people actually heard it.

Yeah, I never understood this line of argument. The purpose of promotion is to raise awareness, not necessarily to get someone to like it. That's the art of advertising, not necessarily promotion.

I guess the label could have kept on releasing singles, but generally that doesn't happen anymore. Axl's example of re-releasing Welcome to the Jungle until it became popular just doesn't fit in today's mode of operations for labels. You're awarded one shot. Fail to hit you're target and they make you put your gun away (excuse the pun).

Not having Robin around isn't much of an argument either. 95% of rock fans could care less that Robin had gone MIA. While throwing a kink in any tour plans, the problems of Robin's departure could have been circumvented by reaching out to another guitar player ahead of touring plans (as was done with Bumblefoot in '06).

I think a lot of people on this forum wanted Chinese Democracy to do better because they really liked it and the album means something to them. The fact that it didn't do better leads many to find excuses for its underwhelming response. Isn't it possible that a majority of people just do not see the same way as we do when it comes to the music itself? I think the album is great, but my taste doesn't dictate (unfortunately ) the tastes of others. IMO, Lullabies To Paralyze by Queens of the Stone Age was one of the greatest rock albums of the 2000s. The fact that few people agree with me isn't indicative of how misjudged people are.

99% percent of bands out there would have killed to have the brand awareness GNR has. Moreover, very few albums have ever achieved the level of mystery and curiosity that Chinese Democracy achieved. To suggest that the album didn't do well because it was an unknown entity to the public is flat out wrong.

Cheers,

Andrew

[combos]

i don't think you understood the question. is english your first language?

Wait, did you just fail to use basic capitalization twice whilst criticizing my english skills? Really?