Has Tommy paid his dues?

[betterman]

He helped write TWAT and other songs on Chinese Democracy and Im sure he will be well represented on coming albums as well..

[Damn_Smooth]

I'd rather see Bucket back than a reunion if I'm honest! Yes, there I said it! Come at me people!

I can live with that. I would rather keep Ron than have a reunion with anybody. Don't give a fuck if anybody likes it or not.

[arnold layne]

No.

[Dazey]

In short, I think the answer is a resounding 'yes,' but I understand the people who feel otherwise and where they're coming from.

Let me elaborate:

Even though Tommy's been there since shortly after Duff left and stuck with Axl all these years, by the time he joined the band Axl was already the defacto leader. And over the years, the band was largely inactive (at least in the public eye) and has only released one record in the 15 years since Tommy joined.

What this means is that all the while he was technically 'in' the band, people began listening more to - and even growing up on - the 'classic' GN'R music and image. No matter what anyone desires or argues for, Slash, Duff and Izzy in particular will forever be recognized as GN'R along with Axl - in the cultural perspective, particularly Slash.

Tommy is an awesome guy, made great music with The Replacements and deserves respect. But at the same time, Axl kept such a muzzle on these guys that - this is really the key here, imo - they have no personalities to the average person. People go to see their shows when they tour and the guys are getting paid to put on great performances, they do a killer job, but after the lights go down, they disappear...some of them now have Twitter which is a step forward, but Axl never helped (or allowed?) them to be promoted as 'Guns N' Roses,' so guys like Tommy are hated for basically being team players - he's been there longer than Duff but ask someone on the street and they'll say it's just Axl and some stand-ins. The fact that there were never any true band interviews done, or even a fucking band photo, spells disaster. I open magazines and see short little interviews with guys like Josh Kliffwhateverhisname from RHCP, who replaced another member - these guys were instantly out there promoting themselves as new bandmembers, but you never open Rolling Stone and see an interview with Tommy, you know?

So as for the disdain and scorn from old-band fans, Tommy doesn't deserve it, but for a plethora of reasons that's what he gets. Some guys here like Almost Famous have made an effort to shoot the shit with some of the bandmembers (if I'm not mistaken AF went to see some of Tommy's solo shows) and I think that's really cool and a step forward -- but ultimately these guys don't have any strong personality unless you're a die-hard fan on the Internet going out of your way to follow them, and even then you're gonna have a hard time finding them talking freely about the band (how many times has BBF been asked a question about the band's future and said 'That's up to Axl to decide,' etc.?). DJ is probably the most open but most of the time he redirects questions about GN'R toward his own business ventures - there's not much of a sense of a traditional 'band,' which maybe doesn't mean much when it comes time to write the music (I now see GN'R as a collective of talented musicians moreso than the traditional image of a 'band'), but it does pose a problem in the sense that for many people that will keep them from ever recognizing guys like Tommy as true bandmembers - even though he's an awesome player and has been in the group so long.

Excellent post! Agree 100%!

[YOUCOULDBEMINE.]

The General has paid his dues and is a legendary member of Guns N' Roses. He has been through the good and bad times...he never quit like a little bitch.

+1

He's a great guy, isn't a quitter, has some great solo stuff.

And I love how you can hear his bass much better live than I could hear him in 2006.

[Use Your Delusion 1]

[username]

In short, I think the answer is a resounding 'yes,' but I understand the people who feel otherwise and where they're coming from.

Let me elaborate:

Even though Tommy's been there since shortly after Duff left and stuck with Axl all these years, by the time he joined the band Axl was already the defacto leader. And over the years, the band was largely inactive (at least in the public eye) and has only released one record in the 15 years since Tommy joined.

What this means is that all the while he was technically 'in' the band, people began listening more to - and even growing up on - the 'classic' GN'R music and image. No matter what anyone desires or argues for, Slash, Duff and Izzy in particular will forever be recognized as GN'R along with Axl - in the cultural perspective, particularly Slash.

Tommy is an awesome guy, made great music with The Replacements and deserves respect. But at the same time, Axl kept such a muzzle on these guys that - this is really the key here, imo - they have no personalities to the average person. People go to see their shows when they tour and the guys are getting paid to put on great performances, they do a killer job, but after the lights go down, they disappear...some of them now have Twitter which is a step forward, but Axl never helped (or allowed?) them to be promoted as 'Guns N' Roses,' so guys like Tommy are hated for basically being team players - he's been there longer than Duff but ask someone on the street and they'll say it's just Axl and some stand-ins. The fact that there were never any true band interviews done, or even a fucking band photo, spells disaster. I open magazines and see short little interviews with guys like Josh Kliffwhateverhisname from RHCP, who replaced another member - these guys were instantly out there promoting themselves as new bandmembers, but you never open Rolling Stone and see an interview with Tommy, you know?

So as for the disdain and scorn from old-band fans, Tommy doesn't deserve it, but for a plethora of reasons that's what he gets. Some guys here like Almost Famous have made an effort to shoot the shit with some of the bandmembers (if I'm not mistaken AF went to see some of Tommy's solo shows) and I think that's really cool and a step forward -- but ultimately these guys don't have any strong personality unless you're a die-hard fan on the Internet going out of your way to follow them, and even then you're gonna have a hard time finding them talking freely about the band (how many times has BBF been asked a question about the band's future and said 'That's up to Axl to decide,' etc.?). DJ is probably the most open but most of the time he redirects questions about GN'R toward his own business ventures - there's not much of a sense of a traditional 'band,' which maybe doesn't mean much when it comes time to write the music (I now see GN'R as a collective of talented musicians moreso than the traditional image of a 'band'), but it does pose a problem in the sense that for many people that will keep them from ever recognizing guys like Tommy as true bandmembers - even though he's an awesome player and has been in the group so long.

Agreed with everything you just said.

But the funny thing is that even if they were out there in interviews etc... What's there to talk about? What are they allowed to talk about? Would they even know any answers to the questions everybody would ask? This band is moving so slow that they'd have very little to say without repeating themselves.

[AIC04]

Ive always adored tommy, from his work in the replacements to his work in soul asylum, gnr n his solo stuff. I wish the 'newer' members could do more interviews ect. So they could let the general public have more insight into who they are ect. The general public doesnt know much about their past work ect, which is a bunch from Pits sex tapes, to Tommys gorilla head ect...

In short, I think the answer is a resounding 'yes,' but I understand the people who feel otherwise and where they're coming from.

Let me elaborate:

Even though Tommy's been there since shortly after Duff left and stuck with Axl all these years, by the time he joined the band Axl was already the defacto leader. And over the years, the band was largely inactive (at least in the public eye) and has only released one record in the 15 years since Tommy joined.

What this means is that all the while he was technically 'in' the band, people began listening more to - and even growing up on - the 'classic' GN'R music and image. No matter what anyone desires or argues for, Slash, Duff and Izzy in particular will forever be recognized as GN'R along with Axl - in the cultural perspective, particularly Slash.

Tommy is an awesome guy, made great music with The Replacements and deserves respect. But at the same time, Axl kept such a muzzle on these guys that - this is really the key here, imo - they have no personalities to the average person. People go to see their shows when they tour and the guys are getting paid to put on great performances, they do a killer job, but after the lights go down, they disappear...some of them now have Twitter which is a step forward, but Axl never helped (or allowed?) them to be promoted as 'Guns N' Roses,' so guys like Tommy are hated for basically being team players - he's been there longer than Duff but ask someone on the street and they'll say it's just Axl and some stand-ins. The fact that there were never any true band interviews done, or even a fucking band photo, spells disaster. I open magazines and see short little interviews with guys like Josh Kliffwhateverhisname from RHCP, who replaced another member - these guys were instantly out there promoting themselves as new bandmembers, but you never open Rolling Stone and see an interview with Tommy, you know?

So as for the disdain and scorn from old-band fans, Tommy doesn't deserve it, but for a plethora of reasons that's what he gets. Some guys here like Almost Famous have made an effort to shoot the shit with some of the bandmembers (if I'm not mistaken AF went to see some of Tommy's solo shows) and I think that's really cool and a step forward -- but ultimately these guys don't have any strong personality unless you're a die-hard fan on the Internet going out of your way to follow them, and even then you're gonna have a hard time finding them talking freely about the band (how many times has BBF been asked a question about the band's future and said 'That's up to Axl to decide,' etc.?). DJ is probably the most open but most of the time he redirects questions about GN'R toward his own business ventures - there's not much of a sense of a traditional 'band,' which maybe doesn't mean much when it comes time to write the music (I now see GN'R as a collective of talented musicians moreso than the traditional image of a 'band'), but it does pose a problem in the sense that for many people that will keep them from ever recognizing guys like Tommy as true bandmembers - even though he's an awesome player and has been in the group so long.

Agreed with everything you just said.

But the funny thing is that even if they were out there in interviews etc... What's there to talk about? What are they allowed to talk about? Would they even know any answers to the questions everybody would ask? This band is moving so slow that they'd have very little to say without repeating themselves.

[Peter Shneck]

In short, I think the answer is a resounding 'yes,' but I understand the people who feel otherwise and where they're coming from.

Let me elaborate:

Even though Tommy's been there since shortly after Duff left and stuck with Axl all these years, by the time he joined the band Axl was already the defacto leader. And over the years, the band was largely inactive (at least in the public eye) and has only released one record in the 15 years since Tommy joined.

What this means is that all the while he was technically 'in' the band, people began listening more to - and even growing up on - the 'classic' GN'R music and image. No matter what anyone desires or argues for, Slash, Duff and Izzy in particular will forever be recognized as GN'R along with Axl - in the cultural perspective, particularly Slash.

Tommy is an awesome guy, made great music with The Replacements and deserves respect. But at the same time, Axl kept such a muzzle on these guys that - this is really the key here, imo - they have no personalities to the average person. People go to see their shows when they tour and the guys are getting paid to put on great performances, they do a killer job, but after the lights go down, they disappear...some of them now have Twitter which is a step forward, but Axl never helped (or allowed?) them to be promoted as 'Guns N' Roses,' so guys like Tommy are hated for basically being team players - he's been there longer than Duff but ask someone on the street and they'll say it's just Axl and some stand-ins. The fact that there were never any true band interviews done, or even a fucking band photo, spells disaster. I open magazines and see short little interviews with guys like Josh Kliffwhateverhisname from RHCP, who replaced another member - these guys were instantly out there promoting themselves as new bandmembers, but you never open Rolling Stone and see an interview with Tommy, you know?

So as for the disdain and scorn from old-band fans, Tommy doesn't deserve it, but for a plethora of reasons that's what he gets. Some guys here like Almost Famous have made an effort to shoot the shit with some of the bandmembers (if I'm not mistaken AF went to see some of Tommy's solo shows) and I think that's really cool and a step forward -- but ultimately these guys don't have any strong personality unless you're a die-hard fan on the Internet going out of your way to follow them, and even then you're gonna have a hard time finding them talking freely about the band (how many times has BBF been asked a question about the band's future and said 'That's up to Axl to decide,' etc.?). DJ is probably the most open but most of the time he redirects questions about GN'R toward his own business ventures - there's not much of a sense of a traditional 'band,' which maybe doesn't mean much when it comes time to write the music (I now see GN'R as a collective of talented musicians moreso than the traditional image of a 'band'), but it does pose a problem in the sense that for many people that will keep them from ever recognizing guys like Tommy as true bandmembers - even though he's an awesome player and has been in the group so long.

Agreed with everything you just said.

But the funny thing is that even if they were out there in interviews etc... What's there to talk about? What are they allowed to talk about? Would they even know any answers to the questions everybody would ask? This band is moving so slow that they'd have very little to say without repeating themselves.

You mean like DJ Ashba, who has been giving the same interview for nearly 4 years?

[The Sandman]

In short, I think the answer is a resounding 'yes,' but I understand the people who feel otherwise and where they're coming from.

Let me elaborate:

Even though Tommy's been there since shortly after Duff left and stuck with Axl all these years, by the time he joined the band Axl was already the defacto leader. And over the years, the band was largely inactive (at least in the public eye) and has only released one record in the 15 years since Tommy joined.

What this means is that all the while he was technically 'in' the band, people began listening more to - and even growing up on - the 'classic' GN'R music and image. No matter what anyone desires or argues for, Slash, Duff and Izzy in particular will forever be recognized as GN'R along with Axl - in the cultural perspective, particularly Slash.

Tommy is an awesome guy, made great music with The Replacements and deserves respect. But at the same time, Axl kept such a muzzle on these guys that - this is really the key here, imo - they have no personalities to the average person. People go to see their shows when they tour and the guys are getting paid to put on great performances, they do a killer job, but after the lights go down, they disappear...some of them now have Twitter which is a step forward, but Axl never helped (or allowed?) them to be promoted as 'Guns N' Roses,' so guys like Tommy are hated for basically being team players - he's been there longer than Duff but ask someone on the street and they'll say it's just Axl and some stand-ins. The fact that there were never any true band interviews done, or even a fucking band photo, spells disaster. I open magazines and see short little interviews with guys like Josh Kliffwhateverhisname from RHCP, who replaced another member - these guys were instantly out there promoting themselves as new bandmembers, but you never open Rolling Stone and see an interview with Tommy, you know?

So as for the disdain and scorn from old-band fans, Tommy doesn't deserve it, but for a plethora of reasons that's what he gets. Some guys here like Almost Famous have made an effort to shoot the shit with some of the bandmembers (if I'm not mistaken AF went to see some of Tommy's solo shows) and I think that's really cool and a step forward -- but ultimately these guys don't have any strong personality unless you're a die-hard fan on the Internet going out of your way to follow them, and even then you're gonna have a hard time finding them talking freely about the band (how many times has BBF been asked a question about the band's future and said 'That's up to Axl to decide,' etc.?). DJ is probably the most open but most of the time he redirects questions about GN'R toward his own business ventures - there's not much of a sense of a traditional 'band,' which maybe doesn't mean much when it comes time to write the music (I now see GN'R as a collective of talented musicians moreso than the traditional image of a 'band'), but it does pose a problem in the sense that for many people that will keep them from ever recognizing guys like Tommy as true bandmembers - even though he's an awesome player and has been in the group so long.

Agreed with everything you just said.

But the funny thing is that even if they were out there in interviews etc... What's there to talk about? What are they allowed to talk about? Would they even know any answers to the questions everybody would ask? This band is moving so slow that they'd have very little to say without repeating themselves.

You mean like DJ Ashba, who has been giving the same interview for nearly 4 years?

http://ashbaswag.com/

Get yours today!

[Big Rocket King]

tommy is better than duff

loons

Edited June 21, 2012 by Big Rocket King

[Madridista]

Why does Axl keep a muzzle on his band? Why doesn't Axl promote them more? Why don't they give interviews? Don't they want to?

I mean, if Axl really wanted the general public, not the die-hard fans in this forum, to accept his new band as GnR, why doesn't he do a better job at promoting them?

I'm willing to bet that if you ask a casual GnR fan out there what the new members' names are, chances are they don't even know.

That must surely affect the band, somehow.

Sometimes I wonder how they feel. As individuals, as artists, as musicians. If I were a musician and played in a band, and wasn't allowed to say anything or give interviews or whatever, would I really feel a part of the band?

And of course I'm sure the money is great, but you know what I mean. Do they really have a say in what happens in the band?

To most fans and people out there, the new gunners are faceless and nameless musicians. I know, I know. You guys are die-hard fans, and you know what they have for breakfast and what color their underwear is, but I guess over 50% of any given band's fanbase is not made up of die-hard fans.

Slash, Duff, Izzy are iconic figures, iconic musicians. Everybody knows who they are. And I'm not gonna get into an argument about who's better, 'cause it's all a matter of taste. But you can say that making 1 album in 15 years and no promotion whatsoever doesn't help a band. The old lineup wrote more music and they were EVERYWHERE: interviews, vídeos, magazines, etc etc etc... nowadays, with the internet, promoting a band should be even easier.

So you could conclude that Axl just doesn't wanna promote his band. WHY?

Man, I'd really like to get inside Axl's head. See what goes on there

Edited June 21, 2012 by Madridista

[The_Universal_Sigh]

So you could concluye that Axl just doesn't wanna promote his band. WHY?

Man, I'd really like to get inside Axl's head. See what goes on there

He's afraid of being rejected by the masses. He's afraid people won't accept his new band. He's afraid to go through with lofty goals for fear of failure. That's my opinion. The options were there for him to try and get out there but he didn't do it. Not mentally strong enough. My opinion, of course, but the past 10+ years has taught me well.

[The Black]

I'm willing to bet that if you ask a casual GnR fan out there what the new members' names are, chances are they don't even know.

This.

I'm heading to Graspop with a bunch of friends who can't name 1 member aside from Axl that's playing in his employed band (I've asked).

Seriously though, they're talented players, not going to comment on writers as I haven't heard an interesting recorded solo or group thing from any of them. But where would they be without Axl hiring them? They're all getting on in age, and none of them really reached a high level of fame. This is just a good and steady job. They put up with Axl's bullshit, but they earn their wages. I think some of them hope to attain a sort of status once Axl's fed up with everything, so they have new ground to approach with previous experience in such a circus. One thing's for sure, they'll all pass a patience test with flying colours.

So you could concluye that Axl just doesn't wanna promote his band. WHY?

Man, I'd really like to get inside Axl's head. See what goes on there

He's afraid of being rejected by the masses. He's afraid people won't accept his new band. He's afraid to go through with lofty goals for fear of failure. That's my opinion. The options were there for him to try and get out there but he didn't do it. Not mentally strong enough. My opinion, of course, but the past 10+ years has taught me well.

Personally I think it's either:

1) Axl feels he's the star of the show (the captain) and the rest are just crew.

2) Axl's afraid to promote them. There's always a sense that they might get fed up and leave as his track record has prooved. If you keep promoting new members you're only going to end up as more of a laughing stock. Keep the members kind of faceless to the general public and they won't even notice any change.

Edited June 21, 2012 by The Black

[The Sandman]

Tommy has to be first mate then surely?

[Rustycage]

Tommy has to be first mate then surely?

Being first mate on a sinking ship is a dubious honor, don't ya think?

j/k

[ARX77]

Why does Axl keep a muzzle on his band? Why doesn't Axl promote them more? Why don't they give interviews? Don't they want to?

I mean, if Axl really wanted the general public, not the die-hard fans in this forum, to accept his new band as GnR, why doesn't he do a better job at promoting them?

I'm willing to bet that if you ask a casual GnR fan out there what the new members' names are, chances are they don't even know.

That must surely affect the band, somehow.

Sometimes I wonder how they feel. As individuals, as artists, as musicians. If I were a musician and played in a band, and wasn't allowed to say anything or give interviews or whatever, would I really feel a part of the band?

And of course I'm sure the money is great, but you know what I mean. Do they really have a say in what happens in the band?

To most fans and people out there, the new gunners are faceless and nameless musicians. I know, I know. You guys are die-hard fans, and you know what they have for breakfast and what color their underwear is, but I guess over 50% of any given band's fanbase is not made up of die-hard fans.

Slash, Duff, Izzy are iconic figures, iconic musicians. Everybody knows who they are. And I'm not gonna get into an argument about who's better, 'cause it's all a matter of taste. But you can say that making 1 album in 15 years and no promotion whatsoever doesn't help a band. The old lineup wrote more music and they were EVERYWHERE: interviews, vídeos, magazines, etc etc etc... nowadays, with the internet, promoting a band should be even easier.

So you could conclude that Axl just doesn't wanna promote his band. WHY?

Man, I'd really like to get inside Axl's head. See what goes on there

I don't think Axl necessarily muzzles the "new" guys. Fact is they just have no idea what is going on in regards to the band. So it's hard for them to comment, I think they've all learned to just not say anythi lng regarding future band plans until its public knowledge. I agree has to be frustrating to them worse than it is for us fans

[RandallFlagg]

Why does Axl keep a muzzle on his band? Why doesn't Axl promote them more? Why don't they give interviews? Don't they want to?

I mean, if Axl really wanted the general public, not the die-hard fans in this forum, to accept his new band as GnR, why doesn't he do a better job at promoting them?

I'm willing to bet that if you ask a casual GnR fan out there what the new members' names are, chances are they don't even know.

That must surely affect the band, somehow.

Sometimes I wonder how they feel. As individuals, as artists, as musicians. If I were a musician and played in a band, and wasn't allowed to say anything or give interviews or whatever, would I really feel a part of the band?

And of course I'm sure the money is great, but you know what I mean. Do they really have a say in what happens in the band?

To most fans and people out there, the new gunners are faceless and nameless musicians. I know, I know. You guys are die-hard fans, and you know what they have for breakfast and what color their underwear is, but I guess over 50% of any given band's fanbase is not made up of die-hard fans.

Slash, Duff, Izzy are iconic figures, iconic musicians. Everybody knows who they are. And I'm not gonna get into an argument about who's better, 'cause it's all a matter of taste. But you can say that making 1 album in 15 years and no promotion whatsoever doesn't help a band. The old lineup wrote more music and they were EVERYWHERE: interviews, vídeos, magazines, etc etc etc... nowadays, with the internet, promoting a band should be even easier.

So you could conclude that Axl just doesn't wanna promote his band. WHY?

Man, I'd really like to get inside Axl's head. See what goes on there

It's like in Megadeth, Mustaine always gives props and endless opportunities to his revolving door of bandmates, cause of Dave's backing when Broderick (great guitarist goes without saying) had barely been in the band for a year and playing tons of classic solos, people welcomed him with open arms, same with Drover who isn't a particularly great drummer but fits in well and gets the job done. What the band figurehead says goes a long way with the public, and Axl has always been THE spark of GNR and his opinion holds a lot of sway, why Axl doesn't try it I have no idea, playing ball a little can help, without media interaction the general public aren't interested. It's awesome letting the music talk but one album with half the band without significant appearances or involvement or decent interviews or band pics ain't the way either!

Edited June 21, 2012 by RandallFlagg

[axl8302]

Has Tommy paid his dues in the band? He came on board 7 months after Duff left and has been GnR's bassist ever since. He is the only original replacement left (no oxymoron jokes, you know what i mean). Hell, he was even in a band called the Repla lcements. Are these facts meaningful to you as a modern-day Guns n Roses fan? I would argue that he has paid his dues in full, and thus deserves a certain level of recognition, even from those who would otherwise be critical of newGunz. What do you think?

i agree with the sentiment here. He's been in the band longer than Duff was now (although his tenure has not been nearly as productive) and seems to enjoy what he does. I dislike the alleged bullying of Buckethead though, so that takes him down a few pegs imho. However I do feel that the length of his tenure alone garners him more true member status than someone like Frank.

What bullying?

[The Sandman]

Tommy has to be first mate then surely?

Being first mate on a sinking ship is a dubious honor, don't ya think?

j/k

Apt in this shite analogy

[vaida]

Tommy is nothing more nothing less a hired hand. That's how GN'R works in 2012.

tommy is better than duff

loons

Duff and the boys = Guns N'Roses

Tommy and the boys = Hired Hands

..and there's nothing Axl can do about that.

Edited June 21, 2012 by vaida

[axl8302]

Tommy is nothing more nothing less a hired hand. That's how GN'R works in 2012.

tommy is better than duff

loons

Duff and the boys = Guns N'Roses

Tommy and the boys = Hired Hands

..and there's nothing Axl can do about that.

It's a FACT that Tommy and the boys ARE Guns N' Roses, and there's nothing you can do about that biatch!!

[Rustycage]

Tommy has to be first mate then surely?

Being first mate on a sinking ship is a dubious honor, don't ya think?

j/k

Apt in this shite analogy

I sense a little anger. Stop. you're scaring me.

[username]

Tommy is nothing more nothing less a hired hand. That's how GN'R works in 2012.

tommy is better than duff

loons

Duff and the boys = Guns N'Roses

Tommy and the boys = Hired Hands

..and there's nothing Axl can do about that.

It's a FACT that Tommy and the boys ARE Guns N' Roses, and there's nothing you can do about that biatch!!

If you take a chair and put a label on it that says "table".... that doesn't make it a table.

[Rustycage]

Tommy is nothing more nothing less a hired hand. That's how GN'R works in 2012.

tommy is better than duff

loons

Duff and the boys = Guns N'Roses

Tommy and the boys = Hired Hands

..and there's nothing Axl can do about that.

It's a FACT that Tommy and the boys ARE Guns N' Roses, and there's nothing you can do about that biatch!!

You're a funny guy. Really you are. I swear!