DieselDaisy Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, PappyTron said: John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” Jesus and God are the same, through hypostatic union. They are of the same essence but there is a separation there. If they were one there would be no such thing as a trinity, demarcating Jesus from god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: If God exists, what would God be to you, Pappy? Which God? I'll assume that you mean the Christian God as outlined in the Bible. If the Christian God, as outlined in the Bible, existed it would be nothing to me. It certainly wouldn't be something that I would worship as I could never worship such a butcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: Which God? I'll assume that you mean the Christian God as outlined in the Bible. If the Christian God, as outlined in the Bible, existed it would be nothing to me. It certainly wouldn't be something that I would worship as I could never worship such a butcher. God, Pappy. Open your mind. Forget about books. If God exists, what would God be to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: They are of the same essence but there is a separation there. If they were one there would be no such thing as a trinity, demarcating Jesus from god. The trinity is not a demarcation of separate entities, but a realisation of the three natures of God; both the divine and the Human. It's exactly the same as the Catholic belief in transubstantiation of Eucharist wafers; they are both wafers AND the actual flesh of Christ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: The trinity is not a demarcation of separate entities, but a realisation of the three natures of God; both the divine and the Human. It's exactly the same as the Catholic belief in transubstantiation of Eucharist wafers; they are both wafers AND the actual flesh of Christ. Exactly. Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: The trinity is not a demarcation of separate entities, but a realisation of the three natures of God; both the divine and the Human. It's exactly the same as the Catholic belief in transubstantiation of Eucharist wafers; they are both wafers AND the actual flesh of Christ. What you say is correct but there is still a demarcation there, otherwise Arianism would have been accepted. Christianity is fundamentally monotheistic. If Jesus is a god that would create a polytheistic situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: God, Pappy. Open your mind. Forget about books. If God exists, what would God be to you? If God existed then it would be a God, but that does not invite any further participation on my behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: If God existed then it would be a God, but that does not invite any further participation on my behalf. No? Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: What you say is correct but there is still a demarcation there, otherwise Arianism would have been accepted. Christianity is fundamentally monotheistic. If Jesus is a god that would create a polytheistic situation. Jesus is not a God, but Jesus is the God, and it wouldn't be polytheistic because there is no separate boundary between the three natures of God; God is both God, an eternal, omnipotent and omniscient entity and at the same time God is also the Human Jesus; a perfect hypostatic union. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: No? Why not? Because I am not compelled, even by a God, to interact with it, as long as I maintain freewill. As I said previously, if a God appeared and if that God was the God of the Bible, I would want nothing to do with it if the Bible is also true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, PappyTron said: Jesus is not a God, but Jesus is the God, and it wouldn't be polytheistic because there is no separate boundary between the three natures of God; God is both God, an eternal, omnipotent and omniscient entity and at the same time God is also the Human Jesus; a perfect hypostatic union. Glad we have sorted that one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, PappyTron said: Because I am not compelled, even by a God, to interact with it, as long as I maintain freewill. As I said previously, if a God appeared and if that God was the God of the Bible, I would want nothing to do with it if the Bible is also true. Huh? You sort of rambled on a little there. just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Glad we have sorted that one out. I believe we call that quote mining. I thought you above such nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Kasanova King said: Huh? You sort of rambled on a little there. just sayin' You asked me to expand on my original point, which I did. I explained to you what God would be to me and I explained to you why even if a God appeared to me right now it would be irrelevant. I'm sorry that a fifty word post is seen as a "ramble" by yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake-Pit Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I was born a snake handler, I'd die a snake handler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: You asked me to expand on my original point, which I did. I explained to you what God would be to me and I explained to you why even if a God appeared to me right now it would be irrelevant. I'm sorry that a fifty word post is seen as a "ramble" by yourself. I love you. God loves you. You are awesome, Pappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: I love you. God loves you. You are awesome, Pappy. You were calling me ignorant, not an hour ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Just now, PappyTron said: You were calling me ignorant, not an hour ago. As you were me, in different words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darknightfan Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I don't think anyone is able to classify what someone else believe in. This topic just said what religion are you? Not to correct each others beliefs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, PappyTron said: I believe we call that quote mining. I thought you above such nonsense. It lacks a certain subtlety to say ''he is god''. If Christ was simply a god it would render invalid the entire history/myth (delete as applicable) of his crucifixion and resurrection. There is a human element there which is why the distinction is made of Christ having an essence of the godhead. You seem to have an acquaintance with the Arian controversy incidentally. I do believe the Nicene Creed is the LBW rule of theologians - or the offside rule if so inclined! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Kasanova King said: As you were me, in different words. I wasn't intending to, just trying to point out that your statements over what you think I should be classified as are incorrect. On a separate note, how, when you quote someone, do you get the whole conversation to show up, not just what the other person last posted sans context? That's an open question, not just to Kasanova King, by the way. Surely I don't have to scroll up and down multi-quoting everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bran Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 the bible is a more complicated version of the lord of the rings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, darknightfan said: I don't think anyone is able to classify what someone else believe in. This topic just said what religion are you? Not to correct each others beliefs. Agreed. 2 minutes ago, PappyTron said: I wasn't intending to, just trying to point out that your statements over what you think I should be classified as are incorrect. On a separate note, how, when you quote someone, do you get the whole conversation to show up, not just what the other person last posted sans context? That's an open question, not just to Kasanova King, by the way. Surely I don't have to scroll up and down multi-quoting everything. Not sure. God. Pray. Pray That was an excellent explanation....amazing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerage5 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, bran said: the bible is a more complicated version of the lord of the rings I BELIEVE IN TOLKIEN. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: It lacks a certain subtlety to say ''he is god''. If Christ was simply a god it would render invalid the entire history/myth (delete as applicable) of his crucifixion and resurrection. There is a human element there which is why the distinction is made of Christ having an essence of the godhead. You seem to have an acquaintance with the Arian controversy incidentally. I do believe the Nicene Creed is the LBW rule of theologians - or the offside rule if so inclined! It may not be subtle, but it is no less inaccurate for it; the core Christian belief is that Jesus was both Human and God in the same body; God given Human form, as it were. As such he retained his innate divinity whilst also having human form: For in him all the fullness of Diety dwells in bodily form. I'm not sure why you believe that God choosing to take on Human form would invalidate his crucifixion, by the way. The Resurrection already demonstrate the inherent flaw of the argument that the crucifixion was a Godly sacrifice; you cannot sacrifice an eternal form that remains eternal. I see the Nicene Creed, along with the various Diets, less as the LBW rule and more of a Mankad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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